JeffB wrote:It's a stretch to call the reconstituted corn in these tamales "masa." Technically true, but far from the fresh masa one finds in Mexican food here. It is more like grits or polenta, you're right. That's what tamales are like in most of the US, at least until fresh masa is available. The chili is like the chili "sauce" used on some Eastern dogs. No meat, just textured soy, usually.

Just out of curiosity, does masa in the Mexican culinary sense only refer to dough made with white maize and slaked lime? I've always thought that was the case, but looking up the word seems to indicate that "masa" merely means dough. Is this correct? I've always divided tamales into two camps: those made with masa, and those made with corn meal (which I've always assumed the hot dog stand tamales are). Or have I got the terminology all wrong here? Help elucidate matters for me.

Binko, I think you've pretty much nailed it.

Sure, "masa" means dough, and even more basically it means "lump." Then again, pasta means paste and mostaccioli means mustaches.

In the Mexican vernacular, it is my understanding that masa harina refers to the dry, powdered stuff, while masa means fresh masa, i.e., the stuff that we are lucky to have that most other places don't. I do not think that the Chicago beef stand tamal usually is made with masa harina, which I doubt is widely available where it arose. Corn meal, perhaps, as the texture is somewhat like bad polenta (in a good way). So, let me backtrack a little from what I said above about "most" US tamales being like the hot dog stand variety. At this point in US immigation history, "most" tamales are probably "more" Mexican and likely made with masa harina, which is bagged and sold in even the weakest Mexican bodega (but not fresh masa). I'm sure someone in Mexico eats masa harina tamales and tortillas, just like someone in France eats Wonder Bread and Hostess cakes, but it is not what I associate with the culture. In the areas of new immigration here, however, it seems folks generally make do with the bagged stuff.

The tamale trail site I mentioned above has a recipe that calls for either corn meal or masa harina, so until I get down to Doe's, I'll have to guess what is in their secret recipe.

http://www.tamaletrail.com/recipe_howto.shtml

Bayless explains masa very nicely on the Frontera site.

http://www.fronterakitchens.com/cooking ... _masa.html

Steve Z wrote:You have discovered an outlet for the rare and getting rarer "bunch" tamale corn roll.

If you want to go to the source, you can pick up bunch tamales at Veteran Tamale Shop. If you go on a Saturday you might even be able to watch them being made. As you can see from this (maybe out of date) list, bunch tamales command a premium price. This is not exactly a recommendation of Veteran’s tamales; I’ve never been able to appreciate corn roll tamales except maybe as a mother-in-law.

Rene G wrote: As you can see from this (maybe out of date) list, bunch tamales command a premium price.

That's funny.

From what I understand, tamales were first introduced to hot dog carts downtown in the 1920s by the Illinois Tamale Company (Iltaco). I guess they used to deliver them to the carts daily. When the dog vendors were forced off the street and into shacks, they continued to sell Tamales.

I always assumed Iltaco was still in the tamale business, but apparently they gave it up for the more lucrative "Pizza Puff". In fact, they now have four cheese Pizza Puffs, Ham and Cheese Puffs and even Breakfast Puffs. I found out from Iltaco's website that Puffs can be baked instead of deep-fried. I wonder if anyone actually offers baked Pizza Puffs? Funny how when people list "Chicago" foods they always overlook the Pizza Puff. Are we embarrassed by it?

d4v3 wrote:From what I understand, tamales were first introduced to hot dog carts downtown in the 1920s by the Illinois Tamale Company (Iltaco). I guess they used to deliver them to the carts daily. When the dog vendors were forced off the street and into shacks, they continued to sell Tamales.

I always assumed Iltaco was still in the tamale business, but apparently they gave it up for the more lucrative "Pizza Puff". In fact, they now have four cheese Pizza Puffs, Ham and Cheese Puffs and even Breakfast Puffs. I found out from Iltaco's website that Puffs can be baked instead of deep-fried. I wonder if anyone actually offers baked Pizza Puffs? Funny how when people list "Chicago" foods they always overlook the Pizza Puff. Are we embarrassed by it?

Supreme seems to be the vendor of choice in most dog places these days.

stevez wrote:Supreme seems to be the vendor of choice in most dog places these days.

Yeah, seems that Supreme took over the tamale market from Iltaco. What is interesting is that Supreme is also now making a knock-off of the Iltaco Pizza Puff called a Pizza "Fluff".

d4v3 wrote:

stevez wrote:Supreme seems to be the vendor of choice in most dog places these days.

Yeah, seems that Supreme took over the tamale market from Iltaco. What is interesting is that Supreme is also now making a knock-off of the Iltaco Pizza Puff called a Pizza "Fluff".

El Greg makes a pretty good pizza puff. Good as far as pizza puffs go.

Today, through a fortuitous accident while ordering my lunch at Jimmy's Hot Dogs, I discovered another source for the elusive bunch tamale (I ordered "punch" and the counter person thought I said "bunch"). These are Supreme brand bunch tamales and seem to have less of the masa filling than the ones pictured by Cathy 2 above. This has always been the allure of the bunch tamale for me (less masa, more beef-like filling than the more traditional cylinder shape). For me (and apparently ReneG as well) bunch tamales are traditionally eaten with chili. Today I went commando because Jimmy's doesn't offer chili and, as much as I hate to admit it, I really enjoyed the experience. I'll be ordering again.

Jimmy's Hot Dogs
4000 W Grand Ave
Chicago, IL 60651
773-384-9513

stevez wrote:beef-like filling

I remember reading the ingredient statement from a tamale wrapper and i think the beef like filling was just masa and beef fat. I'll double check on that.

gp60004 wrote:

stevez wrote:beef-like filling

I remember reading the ingredient statement from a tamale wrapper and i think the beef like filling was just masa and beef fat. I'll double check on that.

Funny you should mention that. Today, being early for a meeting, I popped into Odge's at 730 N. Damen for a hot dog. They had a special which included chili, so I added a tamale (92 cents) so I could make myself a nice little chile tamale.

The tamales were, apparently after reading the description in this thread, bunch tamales. I had never seen tamales that looked like this before--they were irregularly shaped and the folded-over wrapper contained four separate pieces. They were Supreme brand.

Anyhow, as I was eating them, I started reading the ingredient list, and I can confirm with absolute certainty that "beef shortening" was the only meat-related product listed. The other ingredients were corn (or corn meal), spices, natural flavoring, and perhaps water or salt. I remember as I was confused, because the center of the tamale was brown, and sure looked like it had meat, but it could very well just have been spiced, brown corn dough.

SuperDawg tamales, tube or bunch. Me, I went for Bunch.

SuperDawg Bunch Tamales

So, a bunch tamale has more meat, less masa? But otherwise, they are the same?

Bunch tamales in my Chicagoland experience are typically stubbier and moister, prepared and cooked with their ends tied together, or in little parcels within a larger paper packet. The meat* to masa ratio can vary and doesn't conform to a specific rule.

*in some places, it's masa throughout; the center is just colored and flavored with meat renderings / fat.

Cogito wrote:So, a bunch tamale has more meat, less masa? But otherwise, they are the same?

I wouldn't say they have more "meat".Rather, I'd say they have less masa.