Thanks pd for the good info. Not only have you apparently cleared up a mystery as to whether it is legal to charge corkage without a liquor license (yes, but it is illegal to particpate in the service of the beverage in any way, right?), but you also made the point that almost every place is BYO - it is just a matter of how much it will cost you. Which, BTW, can vary wildly, so if you call and ask, be sure to find out the charge and get the name of the person you are speaking with, just in case the charge balloons on site.

I have had a couple of places out here tell me that their insurance does not permit them to serve liquor they did not sell. I do not completely buy this, but have heard it more than once, so perhaps there is truth to it.

Lastly, my favorite is when I bought a nice bottle and, not having finished it, popped the cork back in and left with it. The waiter intercepted me in the middle of the street and relieved me of my bottle. "Illegal to carry out open bottles in Naperville," I was told. Good, law-abiding fellow that I am, I learned 2 things from this:

- Drink it all, or
- Hide it when you leave.

Sort of like Chicago's liquor laws.

At the risk of being even more confusing and, of course, boring everyone to tears, let me make the following three points:

1. What is legal or not-- I don't personally know what is legal or not with regard to BYOB policy in Chicago. I know what the lady at the Chicago Liquor Control Board told me. As far as I know, the issue has not been tried in court to test the limits of the statute or ordinance, nor do I know what the City's policy of enforcement is, if in fact they have one.

2. Why I think she may be right-- I think she may be correct that the ordinance would be interpreted very broad, how else would you prevent an unlicensed establishment from charging $4 for a coke and then "giving" you a shot of rum. This is called the "set up" model, which is what private clubs in states with dry counties and certain fraternal organizations; e.g., North Carolina or the Elks Club, each patron keeping a bottle at the club for his own use and charged only for a glass of ice and soda.

3. Why I think she may have been wrong--unlike a private club bar that is making a profit off of the set up, generally, a BYOB establishment is simply providing an additional service in order to enhance its primary product (food service), by providing glassware, etc. for the comfort of its guest. You could theoretically bring in your own steak and ask the chef to cook it up for you. Nothing is illegal, the booze is not procured by the establishment, you are simply paying for service. However, again, I see a problem in the way of complaints from licensed establishments if a restaurant becomes too successful in this type of service.

...and, by the way, an establishment can skirt the whole corkage issue by simply stating on its menu or in another conspicous place that it will charge a service fee for any product brought in and consumed in the restaurant. Yes, you must pay all service charges, including gratuities of which you have notice (although I think it is a sin to tip on tax).

FYI, The Harold Washington CPL has copies of the following:

Hotel, Restaurant and Travel Law: A Preventive Approach
Law Reference KF 951 .C6 1997
(Morris/Cournmeyer, 2003; amazon.com $69.79 used)
Looks to be textbook for law classes.

Understanding Hospitality Law
Mugar KF 2042 .H6 J43 1990
(Jefferies, 2000; amazon.com $32.92 used)

Hospitality Law: Managing Legal Issues in the Hospitality Industry
(Barth, 2005 at Wiley.com $75 NEW EDITION)

pdaane wrote:2. Why I think she may be right-- I think she may be correct that the ordinance would be interpreted very broad, how else would you prevent an unlicensed establishment from charging $4 for a coke and then "giving" you a shot of rum. This is called the "set up" model, which is what private clubs in states with dry counties and certain fraternal organizations; e.g., North Carolina or the Elks Club, each patron keeping a bottle at the club for his own use and charged only for a glass of ice and soda.

At Cho Sun Ok a lot of the regulars keep a bottle in locked cabinets in the restaurant. It's pretty neat. I guess it saves them the hassle of bringing the bottle, but I'm sure it's not all that good for Cho Sun Ok's legal situation.

-ed

Anyone know anything about this? I think I have heard of Jean Iversen before, perhaps Culinary Historians? I would like to know more.

http://www.byob-chicago.com/default.html

gleam wrote:At Cho Sun Ok a lot of the regulars keep a bottle in locked cabinets in the restaurant. It's pretty neat. I guess it saves them the hassle of bringing the bottle, but I'm sure it's not all that good for Cho Sun Ok's legal situation

I've been going to Cho Sun Ok, or its predecessor if any, since the early 70's. My Grandfather's business is situated in the same building. My family was the only one who regularly visited Cho Sun Ok. Everyone else was turned off by the kimchi smell.

I don't know when those locked cabinets for storing client's liquor began, though its been a very long time, at least since the late 70's. Often there are expensive bottles who seemed to be there more to be seen than to be drunk. What I have never seen is anyone access their liquor cabinet.

pdaane wrote:Anyone know anything about this? I think I have heard of Jean Iversen before, perhaps Culinary Historians? I would like to know more.

http://www.byob-chicago.com/default.html

I have been in two different establishments where stacks of this book were available for the taking. The other day, I grabbed two copies while I took lunch at Babylon, on North Damen, in Bucktown.

In addition to a 120+ list of BYOB-friendly establishments in Chicago, there are notes on Chicago's Liquor Laws, BYOB "Etiquette," Corkage, Wine Pairing, Beer Styles, and Wine&Liquor Stores.

The printed retail cost of the book is $9.95.

Regards,
Erik M.

Bed, Bath, and Beyond has them for $19.99 and use one of the 20% coupons that are always in the mail.

FYI, BB&B will accept these coupons even if they are expired - look for the ones that are 20% off entire purchase and not just one item. The bad thing is they don't let you get 20% off on the higher end items (Henckels, Wusthof etc) but I just purchase a Global gift block of knives for my brother (20% off of $399.99) as Global is not on their list of no go's yet.

Antioch has a BYOB ordnance:



Regards,

From this city of chicago pdf

"BYOB in Chicago:
While the BYOB (Bring your own Bottle) concept is considered a permitted activity for restaurants within
the city limits, there are important city policies regulating the BYOB practice that restaurants need to
consider:
- Fee: no direct or indirect fee may be charged for the allowance of alcohol consumption without
a City of Chicago liquor license; this includes corkage fees.
- Serving/Storing: Restaurant employees may not touch, handle, pour or store the alcohol in any
way. Patrons bringing their own liquor must handle it themselves.
- Liability: It is always recommended that BYOB locations obtain liquor liability insurance to
protect against potential lawsuits. It is illegal for an establishment to serve anyone who is
intoxicated; likewise, a business that allows patrons to BYOB can be held negligent for allowing
patrons to over serve themselves.
- Banquet Halls: Banquet halls that allow BYOB service may be required to obtain a liquor
license."

It seems to me that "direct or indirect" would also prohibit the obvious indirect "service charge".

There are a lot of BYOB's in my hood. I've not seen the corkage or service fee for a couple of years now. But, the handling is an entirely different matter. Just last night we took a bottle to a restaurant and the girl took it from us, un corked, poured, and put it in a bucket of ice. I really can't think of a place that doesn't do this. Very interesting.

I have no problem with a nominal (ie. $5 or less) fee if the restaurant provides glassware. The city position is of course driven by a desire to generate revenue, since there's no reason to have a liquor license when you don't offer liquor. The restaurant should call it a "glassware fee" and charge it if the customer wants to use the restaurant's glassware. That takes care of the city issue.