You rock and thank you!!!

Headed to dinner at El Idea's tomorrow night. Anyone have any suggestions wine for the current menu?

Thanks!

so how was dinner and what wine would you now recommend?
I am going next week

Dinner was fantastic, The closest obvious correlation is Schwa however EL was a bit more consistent. I don't think the highs were quite as high(quail egg ravioli at Schwa) but not a single course failed for me. Each one was unique and the fact that each chef gave you insight into how each dish was created I thought was really quite interesting and brought a lot to the whole experience.

As for the wine I will certainly admit that I am not someone who knows a great deal about wine however for the two of us we had a bottle of Champagne and a nice bottle of Pinot which seemed to work quite well. I think if I were to do it again I would bring in a white as well. There were a few fish courses that we were served our champagne for however it probably would have been nice to have a white in-between, too many bubbles can get to you after awhile....

Had another absolutely amazing dining experience at El Ideas last night. My wife and I were joined by two friends and all of us had a blast. Three plus hours of mind blowing food (a trifecta in terms of taste, creativity and presentation), great dinner party like ambiance, tons of interaction with the chefs as well as top notch service rendered by Bill. With all the wonderful press El Ideas has been garnering (upcoming Anthony Bourdain show as well as Bizarre Foods and recent airing on Hungry Hound) it is set to become one of Chicago's hardest reservations in the very near future. El Ideas is definitely one of Chicago's five best dining venues. Here is a brief photo recap of our experience last night:

A delicious combination of melon and prosciutto frozen and presented as a Freeze Pop - Now if only Jewel sold these!


Deonstructed Shrimp Cocktail - The croquette is filled with cocktail sauce and underneath is shrimp frozen with liquid nitrogen; tastes just like shrimp cocktail, only better:


Chef Foss presenting one of his wonderful creations:


The Salad Course with some nice salmon and awesome tasting roe:


El's signature dish - Fries and Ice Cream. One of my favorite courses and great combination of flavors, textures and hot and cold temperatures:


Deconstructed Reuben Sandwich - Lamb Tongue is the protein in lieu of Pastrami:


My Goofy wife is not the most adventurous eater - she freaked out a bit while trying tongue (the only food that tastes you as you eat it):


My friend Jeff helped out with some plating - one of the best aspects of El Ideas is you are encouraged to hang out in the kitchen between courses, chat with the chefs and even help plate and/or serve food if you so desire:


Explorateur Course (I high end type of cheese) presented as Ants on a Log and some really tasty peanut brittle:


Maitake Mushrooms with Chicken Hearts (that taste surprisingly just like hot dogs):


Franks & Beans Course featuring sous vide pork belly:


Chef Foss searing off some Foie:


The most creative courses of the night - Infant & Toddler - The Infant portion is lobster, truffle and Foie infused milk served and consumed out of a bottle, so fun and absolutely ingenious:


My fiend Jeff being a good baby and drinking his milk; if all baby food tasted like this everyone would be consuming milk 24/7:


Toddler version - actual chunks of lobster, piece of seared Foie and generous portions of black truffle shavings - Amazing flavor combination:


Bison Course with Malt, Garlic and Tomatillo - Tasted great but the lighting made for a crappy picture:


First Dessert - Peach with Blackberries and Bruleed Meringue:


Final Dessert - Egg yolk liquified and served inside a chocolate shaped egg and seasoned with some tarragon:


After the final dessert some tasty mignardises were brought out and some excellent coffee is served in a French press (tea available as well). A perfect conclusion to one of the best meals I have enjoyed. I am totally hooked on El Ideas and have already e-mailed a request for another reservation... I can't wait to return!

I'm jealous!

Under no circumstances EVER take them up on their offer to sit in the "more private table next to the kitchen."

We did on Friday and it was awful.

disagree wrote:I'm jealous!

Under no circumstances EVER take them up on their offer to sit in the "more private table next to the kitchen."

We did on Friday and it was awful.

Sorry you had a bad experience. I am curious as to what was negative about that particular table?

disagree wrote:I'm jealous!

Under no circumstances EVER take them up on their offer to sit in the "more private table next to the kitchen."

We did on Friday and it was awful.

I was at El Ideas with a group of 4 last month and was offered the side table. When I was asked, it was posed to me as a less desirable table, made up for with some extras from the kitchen that they called scooby snacks. We were ok with this and were looking forward to the extras from the kitchen.

The overall experience was still great. The food was wonderful and we still got to hang out in the kitchen with the staff. However, I agree with disagree that I'd avoid the private table in the future.

For one, we were totally isolated from both the kitchen and the other tables. We're a pretty outgoing bunch so we found ourselves away from our table for much of the meal. We were able to interact with the other diners and the kitchen just fine, but it was more of an effort because we were away from everything.

Each course was brought out to us first, then to the dining room, so we got to hear the descriptions of each dish twice. This wasn't a big deal though it did detract from the flow of things since we had to take our first bites in silence as the chef was talking to the dining room. Also the servers were rushed when they were at our table since they had to hustle back to the dining room. On a couple occasions they were late with the silverware and we received less attention overall. Half way through the meal I found myself walking into the kitchen and grabbing a couple glasses just to speed things up. This isn't a complaint because I really don't mind that sort of thing. Actually I think the casualness of the entire experience is a big part of the charm. But I recognize how this is a turn off for many, particularly at the price point.

Finally, and perhaps the only thing that truly bothered me, they didn't serve us any scooby snacks. If they had offered the table with a small discount, we would've accepted it gladly. I appreciate that they acknowledge that the experience to be had at the side table is inferior to the standard dining room experience, but when they offer to make that right with extras from the kitchen, there really should be extras from the kitchen.

I still enjoyed my experience a great deal. We were there with a couple first timers and they had a blast. I have a lot of respect for what Phillip Foss has created and I am in no way deterred from returning based on this experience. Still, if I'm offered the side table again in the future, I'll decline.

turkob wrote:

disagree wrote:I'm jealous!

Under no circumstances EVER take them up on their offer to sit in the "more private table next to the kitchen."

We did on Friday and it was awful.

I was at El Ideas with a group of 4 last month and was offered the side table. When I was asked, it was posed to me as a less desirable table, made up for with some extras from the kitchen that they called scooby snacks. We were ok with this and were looking forward to the extras from the kitchen.

The overall experience was still great. The food was wonderful and we still got to hang out in the kitchen with the staff. However, I agree with disagree that I'd avoid the private table in the future.

For one, we were totally isolated from both the kitchen and the other tables. We're a pretty outgoing bunch so we found ourselves away from our table for much of the meal. We were able to interact with the other diners and the kitchen just fine, but it was more of an effort because we were away from everything.

Each course was brought out to us first, then to the dining room, so we got to hear the descriptions of each dish twice. This wasn't a big deal though it did detract from the flow of things since we had to take our first bites in silence as the chef was talking to the dining room. Also the servers were rushed when they were at our table since they had to hustle back to the dining room. On a couple occasions they were late with the silverware and we received less attention overall. Half way through the meal I found myself walking into the kitchen and grabbing a couple glasses just to speed things up. This isn't a complaint because I really don't mind that sort of thing. Actually I think the casualness of the entire experience is a big part of the charm. But I recognize how this is a turn off for many, particularly at the price point.

Finally, and perhaps the only thing that truly bothered me, they didn't serve us any scooby snacks. If they had offered the table with a small discount, we would've accepted it gladly. I appreciate that they acknowledge that the experience to be had at the side table is inferior to the standard dining room experience, but when they offer to make that right with extras from the kitchen, there really should be extras from the kitchen.

I still enjoyed my experience a great deal. We were there with a couple first timers and they had a blast. I have a lot of respect for what Phillip Foss has created and I am in no way deterred from returning based on this experience. Still, if I'm offered the side table again in the future, I'll decline.

My post explaining what happened was deleted by the moderators, and I don't have the desire to repost it, since I don't know exactly what was objectionable.

Suffice it to say, we were not told it was less desirable. It was presented to us as a privilege. Chef Foss' behavior and attitude about our experience makes me very disinclined to eat there again. It was in no way at all worth the money. And they should not offer future discounts on meals for people who suffer through their money-grab extra-table. They should charge us less to begin with.

Several weeks before dinner, they (Allison) emailed me and asked if I would be ok with sitting in a more private table next to the kitchen, where we would get "scooby snacks/extra tastes" from the chefs.

Perhaps the fault is mine for reading this as an offer to sit next to the kitchen and get maybe a treat or two (a work in progress or something they are phasing out, you know, kitchen table stuff. For example, the kitchen table at Next is a more private table next to the kitchen and you certainly get some bonus tastes). Having eaten at El Ideas before, and having had a wonderful experience, I was foolishly flattered to have been asked and said, enthusiastically, "sure!"

The table itself is actually around the corner from the kitchen. It is the only table that didn't have a view of the kitchen, which is of course one of the key components of Chef Foss' "elevated dining" ideas. Not only was it around the corner from the kitchen, it was sandwiched between the office and the area in which their dishwasher worked. We also didn't get to listen to the fun DJ'ish mix they discuss at the beginning of the meal - no speaker over next to the kitchen. We had a private soundtrack, though. Pressure hose spraying against metal.

So we had to listen to the high pressure hose of the dishwasher during our meal (we had to talk over it. It was LOUD), smell the soap, and during our final course right behind me two chefs were scrubbing stuff down. Not a great smell to go with the dessert. Also, I had to be careful when I got up as there was a sous vide bath full of pork belly by my feet. This was behind my wife and I.

And lastly, the "scooby snacks" were nothing but more slices of bits from courses. Whoop-de-doo. Given that they do not serve the same menu every night, this was a shock. When plates are composed and deliberate, getting more of a particular component isn't such a great privilege. It was at best a half-assed gesture to the shittiness of the table.

So basically, it was awkward, uncomfortable, and a bit gross. We were suckers. Suckers out, all told, nearly $1000 for dinner for 4, what with wine, babysitters, and cabs.

I told Chef Foss about how upset we all were and he offered us "a discount" on a future reservation. So next time we have 1k to spare on dinner and can coordinate with our friends and babysitters and can get in, we'll get "a discount".

At least with Schwa you know what you're in for.

I drafted this response for this customer that I was planning to send privately. Considering the public posting however, I thought it best to share with everyone. It was written to address an email in which the customer rejected the offer of a discount and demanded a refund. Additionally, we are happy to share all communications with this customer as well as our multiple attempts to apologize and assuage this customer's negative feelings.

Ultimately it brings up the question, should a customer be allow to demand a refund after-the-fact and when they don't get one, make threats and false accusations? And to address another falsehood in that post, a dinner for 4 people with tax is $592.65. We cannot be held responsible for any other monies spent.

Lastly, this is the first negative response we've had to the more private table. Many regulars, in fact, request it to enjoy the company of their friends, families and with the chefs. We take our food very seriously while we are attempting to redefine fine-dining.

Please read my email below and feel free to reach out with any questions or comments.

Best,
Phillip

Dear Mr. Bxxxxx,

Again, I apologize that you found the table so unacceptable. It has been our experience that our diners love the intimacy of being semi-alone with their group, more access to the chefs and more food. As it was your second time dining with us, I am unclear how Allison's description of "outside the typical dining area" and "next to the kitchen" would leave you feeling deceived as to its location? The layout of the restaurant has not changed, and that is the only space possible for a semi-private table. To the back and right of the kitchen, next to the bathrooms, is where our actual dish washing machine is located. The 3-pot sink in the prep kitchen, that you had full-view of, is only used to wash pans used during service, which is quite minimal. In your first email, the critiques of the semi-private table were in relation to the rest of the dining room, and I am having a hard time understanding how a semi-private table "outside the typical dining area" should replicate the exact experience of inside "the typical dining area?" Allison also emailed you on July 11, 2012 specifically to seek your permission of being "sat outside of the typical dining area" and had you objected then, we would have been able to change which table your party was sat at.

You did mention in your critiques, that the " table is beneath the quality of the food." We take our food very seriously and therefore source and buy the highest quality. That being said, we cannot offer you a refund, as the food has already been consumed and the labor expense already spent. Additionally, posting on a public forum that "under no circumstances EVER take them up on their offer to sit in the "more private table next to the kitchen"" harms my ability to not only sell those seats to people that might enjoy their experience, but threatens my employees' jobs, retards the time period I can earn enough to make the improvements to my restaurant and semi-private space, threatens the sustainability of my 1-year old restaurant and security of my family. The financial consequences of a statement like that could be immeasurable to a small business owner like myself. So again, I apologize, but I cannot pay for the improvements you suggested to the semi-private space, pay for marketing to change the negative perception you put out there, absorb the loss of revenue in which your comments may cause me, and offer you the refund you requested.

Again, we are happy to ensure next time you are seated in the main dining room, give you priority in booking your reservation, as well as a discount. The offer stands whenever you decide if you want to come back.

Sincerely,
Phillip

Not to bother you all with what is now apparently a feud, but this is what I said to him in the email:

"So while I appreciate your offer of a discount on a future meal, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with it. We are already out a ton of money. Rather than offer me a discount on a future meal (who knows when we could afford it and coordinate it and even if my friends whom I see infrequently would be willing to return), I'd prefer you give us all that discount as a refund of some sort now, and let us decide if we want to come back."

I also told him I thought the regular experience was worth the money, so if we decided to come back we were more than happy to pay the full price. Remember, I had been there before and liked it so much I made future reservations days later!

Again, the burden should not be on the customer to have memorized the layout of an establishment so that he or she knows where a "table next to the kitchen" is going to be located precisely. That's absurd. This is how it was described:

We've plotted your party at our more private table next to the kitchen, which we sometimes refer to as the "Scooby Snack Table" (because guests sitting there sometimes sometimes retrieve extra tastes (scooby snacks) from the kitchen during service. I wanted to make sure this was okay with your party since you will be sat outside of the typical dining area.

Next to is not the same as around the corner from. And why was it not presented as less desirable to me when it was to another? (and apparently I'm not the only one who thought the table wasn't worth the cost. see above!) When you say "had I objected" it is only fair to note that "had you described the table less duplicitously" I would have objected.

Bad reviews are definitely undesirable. Of course. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't be honest about their experiences. The "monies" was about context. I never asked for a refund for the entire meal. I never asked for cab fare! I never asked for babysitter money! I was just pointing out that it was a very expensive negative experience.

disagree wrote:

We've plotted your party at our more private table next to the kitchen, which we sometimes refer to as the "Scooby Snack Table" (because guests sitting there sometimes sometimes retrieve extra tastes (scooby snacks) from the kitchen during service. I wanted to make sure this was okay with your party since you will be sat outside of the typical dining area.

Next to is not the same as around the corner from. And why was it not presented as less desirable to me when it was to another ? (and apparently I'm not the only one who thought the table wasn't worth the cost. see above!)

That is exactly the same email I received from them. I just went back and checked. I interpreted it as less desirable because they went out of their way to tell us about it and offered a bonus. I can see how some would prefer the table, but it wasn't for me.

At the time I was willing to trade off being away from the dining room for extra bites from the kitchen. Also, I was expecting to be closer to the kitchen, not further, based on what they wrote. I made these assumptions based on the little information I was given.

turkob wrote:

disagree wrote:

We've plotted your party at our more private table next to the kitchen, which we sometimes refer to as the "Scooby Snack Table" (because guests sitting there sometimes sometimes retrieve extra tastes (scooby snacks) from the kitchen during service. I wanted to make sure this was okay with your party since you will be sat outside of the typical dining area.

Next to is not the same as around the corner from. And why was it not presented as less desirable to me when it was to another ? (and apparently I'm not the only one who thought the table wasn't worth the cost. see above!)

That is exactly the same email I received from them. I just went back and checked. I interpreted it as less desirable because they went out of their way to tell us about it and offered a bonus. I can see how some would prefer the table, but it wasn't for me.

At the time I was willing to trade off being away from the dining room for extra bites from the kitchen. Also, I was expecting to be closer to the kitchen, not further, based on what they wrote. I made these assumptions based on the little information I was given.

Thanks. I fully realize I too made assumptions based on the little information I was given. Such a bummer.

And you know what, this is a forum about food and experiences. Chefs shouldn't come here to bully people into not sharing. It's not like I'm emailing food sites and shouting like a lunatic on twitter or facebook or yelp.

My goodness, I've told people that the restaurant is worth the money except for one table. Geez.

disagree wrote:]My post explaining what happened was deleted by the moderators, and I don't have the desire to repost it, since I don't know exactly what was objectionable. Apparently I allege health code violations. If that's the case, I guess I should notify the health code people. Anyone know whom I contact?

If I were Chef, I would be particularly unhappy about this piece of ambiguous innuendo. I agree that this is potentially quite damaging to a small business and goes far beyond merely "sharing food experiences."

Edit: Mods, please feel free to delete this post now that the quote above has been edited out of its original post.

All gone now! For what it is worth, I didn't allege anything on purpose.

But, hey as long as we are playing "If I was Chef" I wouldn't come on a forum and attack a customer who said the food was worth 135/pp.

disagree wrote:But, hey as long as we are playing "If I was Chef" I wouldn't come on a forum and attack a customer who said the food was worth 135/pp.

In an earlier version of this line you said you thought Chef Foss should instead, "come on and make peace." And, the edit you chose to make is telling about what I find so unseemly about your original post (and to a lesser extent the current version).

You want peace, on your terms (which include the Chef not talking back, apparently). And, while you admit you made assumptions, you don't seem to acknowledge the extent to which they precipitated your disastrous evening. You read their initial e-mail assuming you'd been VIPed after one visit and jumped at the opportunity for special treatment without considering the actuality of what you were being offered. Maybe others would do the same in your position, but here's why it's wrong. Rarely do restaurants write to ask if it's okay to seat you at the best table in the house. You probably should have had questions about the offer, but you only saw the positive and decided to overlook the negative... So, when you found the table not to your liking did you comment upon seating that it was farther away from the kitchen that you'd have liked? Or, when the dish washing got too loud, did you ask if they could do that later? Or, at any other point before you were about to leave did you voice your displeasure? It doesn't much matter, I guess, because Chef Foss's offers didn't appease you. So, you thought you'd make yourself whole by posting here.

You could have posted an objective description of the "private table" and even made it clear that it wasn't to your taste/liking. That would have educated us all and I would have been very thankful to have the data point in deciding if I'd like to dine at EL, or how.

kl1191 wrote:

disagree wrote:But, hey as long as we are playing "If I was Chef" I wouldn't come on a forum and attack a customer who said the food was worth 135/pp.

In an earlier version of this line you said you thought Chef Foss should instead, "come on and make peace." And, the edit you chose to make is telling about what I find so unseemly about your original post (and to a lesser extent the current version).

You want peace, on your terms (which include the Chef not talking back, apparently). And, while you admit you made assumptions, you don't seem to acknowledge the extent to which they precipitated your disastrous evening. You read their initial e-mail assuming you'd been VIPed after one visit and jumped at the opportunity for special treatment without considering the actuality of what you were being offered. Maybe others would do the same in your position, but here's why it's wrong. Rarely do restaurants write to ask if it's okay to seat you at the best table in the house. You probably should have had questions about the offer, but you only saw the positive and decided to overlook the negative... So, when you found the table not to your liking did you comment upon seating that it was farther away from the kitchen that you'd have liked? Or, when the dish washing got too loud, did you ask if they could do that later? Or, at any other point before you were about to leave did you voice your displeasure? It doesn't much matter, I guess, because Chef Foss's offers didn't appease you. So, you thought you'd make yourself whole by posting here.

You could have posted an objective description of the "private table" and even made it clear that it wasn't to your taste/liking. That would have educated us all and I would have been very thankful to have the data point in deciding if I'd like to dine at EL, or how.

I just thought they were being nice when they offered it. I don't work in the restaurant business. I didn't realize that it was a negative offer. I'm not as cynical as you. I don't want to give that up. I've never been written by a restaurant asking to sit more in a more private table next to the kitchen. I have sat in a more private table next to the kitchen, though. At Next. Perhaps you now understand why I thought the way I did. My reaction to Allison at El clearly indicated I was enthused about the table offer. She could've made sure I understood. Although I understand that you think the burden is on me to be suspicious and not for them to be non-duplicitous.

(ps talking about prior edits on the internet is unseemly. I am happy to send you our entire exchange of emails if Chef Foss says it is ok. I can tell we wouldn't be friends.)

kl1191 wrote:

disagree wrote:But, hey as long as we are playing "If I was Chef" I wouldn't come on a forum and attack a customer who said the food was worth 135/pp.

In an earlier version of this line you said you thought Chef Foss should instead, "come on and make peace." And, the edit you chose to make is telling about what I find so unseemly about your original post (and to a lesser extent the current version).

You want peace, on your terms (which include the Chef not talking back, apparently). And, while you admit you made assumptions, you don't seem to acknowledge the extent to which they precipitated your disastrous evening. You read their initial e-mail assuming you'd been VIPed after one visit and jumped at the opportunity for special treatment without considering the actuality of what you were being offered. Maybe others would do the same in your position, but here's why it's wrong. Rarely do restaurants write to ask if it's okay to seat you at the best table in the house. You probably should have had questions about the offer, but you only saw the positive and decided to overlook the negative... So, when you found the table not to your liking did you comment upon seating that it was farther away from the kitchen that you'd have liked? Or, when the dish washing got too loud, did you ask if they could do that later? Or, at any other point before you were about to leave did you voice your displeasure? It doesn't much matter, I guess, because Chef Foss's offers didn't appease you. So, you thought you'd make yourself whole by posting here.

You could have posted an objective description of the "private table" and even made it clear that it wasn't to your taste/liking. That would have educated us all and I would have been very thankful to have the data point in deciding if I'd like to dine at EL, or how.

I'd like to add that your insult about "jumping at special treatment" is thoroughly obnoxious.

Edited to add: so is the bit about making myself whole. But if you'd like to talk more about me, I'll buy you coffee. We can sit wherever you want in the cafe, even.

It is too bad that disagree had a bad experience; I do understand Chef Foss becoming upset as some of the content of disagree's earlier posts (that have since been removed by the moderators) were certainly inflammatory and would make by blood boil if it was about a business I owned. It is a shame this thread has been disrupted from discussing the amazing food AND experience that is the norm at El Ideas. El Ideas in just one year has become one of the hottest reservations in Chicago and seems to be about the most loved venue by people who have dined there. No restaurant can satisfy 100% of it's patrons, but El Ideas is right up there with Alinea, Next and Goosefoot for being pretty darn close to 100%. I have had the privilege of dining there three times now and all have been phenomenal; I also really admire and respect Chef Foss for his creativity and for truly elevating fine dining by taking it in completely new and unique directions. I appreciate his being so approachable both at the restaurant and online. While I understand disagree wanting to vent about his disappointing experience (and it is important for both a restaurant and potential patrons to receive constructive criticism), hopefully disagree realizes that the manner in which some of the complaints were phrased were far more inflammatory than constructive (mainly before some content was removed by the moderators). This is what upset Chef Foss and led to some ugliness on the boards here rather than an amicable resolution.

El Ideas has so much great (and well deserved) buzz from the myriad of extremely satisfied diners (many of them repeat customers as well as some big shots in the culinary world) that I do not think Chef Foss has to lose any sleep over not being able to consistently fill the restaurant (and probably have a lengthy wait list to boot). Especially once some of the upcoming television shows air about El Ideas, many people will be more than willing to take the table next to the kitchen if it means having the opportunity to dine at El. One suggestion I have is to be a little more clear with the description of this table to potential diners to minimize the chance of somebody having false expectations and a subsequent negative experience occurring in the future.

Hopefully we can move the focus of this thread back to the food, customary experiences, and exciting innovations occurring at El Ideas!

Gonzo70 wrote:I appreciate his being so approachable both at the restaurant and online. While I understand disagree wanting to vent about his disappointing experience (and it is important for both a restaurant and potential patrons to receive constructive criticism)

Gonzo70 wrote:Hopefully we can move the focus of this thread back to the food, customary experiences, and exciting innovations occurring at El Ideas!

Just a point that I think needs to be made here. I think this forum is all about dining experiences, both good and bad. While the method that Disagree may have used to note his negative experience, the fact is (and you touched upon it above Gonzo70) that he rightly brought to light a situation in the restaurant that can cause a negative experience. That's totally appropriate for this forum. I think we would all agree that we don't just want to hear about the "customary experiences", because something can be learned from the one-off experiences as well. As someone who hasn't yet been to EL and is looking forward to going soon, I'm glad to know that there's a table that probably won't yield the total experience that EL can offer. Just my 2 cents.

Mod Note: All that was removed from disagree's post was an inference -- not an accusation -- about a potential health code violation that was not actually witnessed. The rest of the post remains intact.

Carry on . . and please keep it civil, and compliant with our Posting Guidelines.

Thanks,

=R=
for the moderators

disagree wrote: At least with Schwa you know what you're in for.

Cancelled reservations the day of your dinner? Reduced courses due to the inebriation of the cooks (they were clearly on something special the one time I ate there)? Fireworks in the alley after shots of Jameson? Yep, you know what you're in for.

I'm sorry but given that disagree's only posts on LTH are about this one experience at El and the level of hostility does not seem to match the actual experience of him or those of others (even turkob's less than optimal experience), I'm not sure how to give these comments any credence. You pay extra to sit at the kitchen table at Next. You should expect extra courses and special treatment there, but extra courses seem to have been granted at El to make up for any shortcomings of the location.

"I wouldn't come on a forum and attack a customer who said the food was worth 135/pp." Umm, a lot of what you said contradicts that:

"We are already out a ton of money. . . I'd prefer you give us all that discount as a refund of some sort now, and let us decide if we want to come back."

"It was at best a half-assed gesture to the shittiness of the table. So basically, it was awkward, uncomfortable, and a bit gross. We were suckers. Suckers out, all told, nearly $1000 for dinner for 4, what with wine, babysitters, and cabs."

"It was in no way at all worth the money. And they should not offer future discounts on meals for people who suffer through their money-grab extra-table. They should charge us less to begin with."

I actually am dining at Schwa tonight. If they offer me a semi private table in the back with extra access to Jameson shots and a tableside view of the fireworks show, should I take it?

John Danza wrote:

Gonzo70 wrote:I appreciate his being so approachable both at the restaurant and online. While I understand disagree wanting to vent about his disappointing experience (and it is important for both a restaurant and potential patrons to receive constructive criticism)

Gonzo70 wrote:Hopefully we can move the focus of this thread back to the food, customary experiences, and exciting innovations occurring at El Ideas!

Just a point that I think needs to be made here. I think this forum is all about dining experiences, both good and bad. While the method that Disagree may have used to note his negative experience, the fact is (and you touched upon it above Gonzo70) that he rightly brought to light a situation in the restaurant that can cause a negative experience. That's totally appropriate for this forum. I think we would all agree that we don't just want to hear about the "customary experiences", because something can be learned from the one-off experiences as well. As someone who hasn't yet been to EL and is looking forward to going soon, I'm glad to know that there's a table that probably won't yield the total experience that EL can offer. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed; my wording was not the best in the portion you quoted. It certainly is important for people to post not just the good, but the bad (restaurants need constructive criticism to remedy actual problems and improve, and patrons so they can make an informed decision and have reasonable expectations). What I meant by customary (I should have used a different word) is that well over 90% of people leave El Ideas having a phenomenal meal and experience - so it is a shame that a large chunk of this thread became devoted to a single negative experience due to the poster phrasing their beef in a less than thoughtful manner.

I hope you have an incredible time at El!

disagree and Turkob - thanks for posting about this table. Had I gotten that email, and never having been to the restaurant before, I would have assumed it might be an elevated dining experience. Had I been in the same position as you both, I would have been an extremely unhappy diner. They should have been more clear when they contacted you. If they don't want to spend the money to adjust the experience, they should at least manage expectations better.

We ate at the 'scooby snacks' table. While we didn't get any 'scooby snacks', we did enjoy looking at Chef Foss's collection of cookbooks on the adjacent shelf (lots of cool books--including Heston Blumenthal's cookbooks, the Alinea cookbook, etc). One member of our party is in her third trimester of pregnancy so we appreciated the extra room and the nearby fan. The only downside was we couldn't always hear the dish descriptions (though, sometimes they came and repeated them and I'm sure they would have done that for every course if we had asked). In any case, it was our second great meal at El and I'd happily take that table (or any other) on our return trips there.

Well I have my long awaited reservation next Tuesday and I'm stoked. I hope my palate is up to par

phillipfoss wrote:a dinner for 4 people with tax is $592.65. We cannot be held responsible for any other monies spent.

You may not be responsible but you should be aware of it, that is what the actual cost to your customers is to dine with you.

$150/person is not a small amount to most people regardless of other costs. I wouldn't try to cheapen the complaint with that argument.

This table obviously sucks. Either embrace the people at the table from the very beginning and knock their socks off (more then you already do), offer it at a discount or get rid of it. But at $600/night sales I'd probably go with the first option.

Any chance anyone is dining at El tomorrow? I think I may have over bought the vino and have a white, red, and bubbly for 2 people. Do you think they are all needed?