just got back from kuma's. went for lunch at 1:45. had to wait 50 minutes for a table and about the same for our food. the place was packed the whole time and still a wait when we left at 3:45. they seemed a bit overwhelmed in the kitchen. best to let the check please hype cool down. will return in a about a month.

Thanks for posting.

Our wait was short, just ten minutes.

But we, too, had to wait 50 minutes for our food. Which I felt was unacceptable.

Yes, the place was full, but it's a tiny place.

How long does it take to cook a freakin' burger? Egads!

50 minutes, apparently-- when there's 25 of them before you.

"It's so popular no one goes there any more" --Yogi Berra

Saint Pizza wrote:But we, too, had to wait 50 minutes for our food. Which I felt was unacceptable.

How long does it take to cook a freakin' burger? Egads!

You know - there's a Burger King down the street.

I paid my first visit to Kuma and friends on Friday, 'round about 1:45 for a late lunch.

My immediate impression was of "divish" oasis insulated against the normal flow of time. Outside, in the real world was the post-lunch lull tinged with a weekend of possibilities... inside was... whenever, timeless, something o'clock. Smoky and hardrockin', there was room at the bar, but no open tables. My wife and I bellied up, and waited to be noticed. Waited a good ten minutes I'd say, but there were only two active servers and I don't begrudge them that. The crowd seemed friendly, and was not representative of what one might expect at a heavy metal meat mill. The waitress was aloof but attentive, I did not get the impression that had I worn the right "uniform" I would have received better service.
I ordered the Neurosis, perhaps a more modest offering, topped with Cheddar, Swiss, Sauteed Mushrooms, Carmelized Onions, and Horseradish Mayo. It was a delightful if not ambitious melange of flavors, I thought I'd start off with something less than overwhelming (have you seen those piles of frizzled onions?!?) My wife had the YOB, my second choice, slathered with Smoked Gouda, Bacon, Roasted Red Peppers, Roasted Garlic Mayo. The small scrap I could salvage when she had finished was delicious, and she clearly enjoyed it.
The food arrived relatively quickly, but neither of our burgers was medium, as we ordered them. In fact, they were edging towards gray. It would seem a shame to waste all of those wonderful toppings on a patty done well... but I am a fan of cow in all it's forms, I just prefer some peeking pink.

All in all, I can't wait to go back, it's a shame that my schedule does not normally allow me to go at such an accommodating hour. On the other hand I would love to extensively sample their extensive beer list, perhaps even for an extensive amount of time. So, it may be best not to visit during lunch, lest I forget my way back to work.

Saint Pizza wrote:Thanks for posting.

Our wait was short, just ten minutes.

But we, too, had to wait 50 minutes for our food. Which I felt was unacceptable.

Yes, the place was full, but it's a tiny place.

How long does it take to cook a freakin' burger? Egads!

I can stay silent no longer, even though it might warrant a verbal spanking from the moderators.

This incessant whining has got to stop. Here in this thread, over in the Xni-Pec thread, and in the Burt's thread, we've got people who are visiting small restaurants immediately after they have received huge publicity, being thrown into the spotlight, and then complaining because it was so busy. Did you think you were the only ones to see that episode of Check Please? Did you think the post office forgot to deliver the Chicago issue of Saveur to the entire rest of the country and you were the only one to receive it???

The posters on LTHforum are supposed to be among Chicago's savviest diners and yet, here you are (not all of you of course, just the whiners) behaving like a bunch of yokels who don't have enough sense to stay home or go somewhere else until the hubbub dies down a bit. The whiner in the Xni-Pec thread actually went there less than 24 hours after the show aired and was confronted by long waits and strained service. What did she expect? The Check Please phenomenon is not unknown on these boards. In fact, it has been a frequent topic of discussion and disdain. So knowing this to be the case, why on Earth would you visit a restaurant that has just been featured??? And then blame the restaurant for your bad judgment???

All three of these restaurants have received LTH's GNR award, with an emphasis on the word NEIGHBORHOOD. All three establishments served a modest but devoted core constituency until they were suddenly exposed to a much wider audience. I can only speak for Burt's, but I suspect the same is true for all of these places. We have made every effort to accommodate and cheerfully serve as many of our new (hopefully) friends as possible but no matter how far in advance you plan, no matter how much prep work you do to stay ahead of the demand, there is still only one oven and it will only hold so many pizzas. There is only one grill and it can only hold so many burgers. There is only one tortilla press and it can only spit out so many tortillas at a time (I'm just guessing on that last one). There is only so much work space for so many employees before you start tripping over one another, creating a counterproductive situation.

If you don't have the good sense to understand and accept that a small neighborhood restaurant that has just been exposed to the entire Chicago metro area and beyond (in Burt's case it is a national, even international spotlight) is going to be over the top busy for a few weeks or even months immediately following that exposure, then please, just stay home. You are not doing the hard working owners, employees, or other, truly appreciative customers of these places any favors by taking up space in their temporarily overcrowded dining rooms.

If you want someplace that is designed to handle large crowds in an efficient manner, I'm sure there's a McDonald's or Burger King in your neighborhood that will be happy to take care of you.

This is the LTHforum, a website dedicated to the discovery, sharing, love, and appreciation of Chicago's best restaurants. Some of those establishments were designed to handle large groups of customers. Many of them were not, intending only to cater to a modest clientèle. Believe it or not, most of the owners of these smaller places are quite happy with their small businesses and have no interest in expanding or franchising. That's what gives them their allure and charm. That's why they can focus on the high quality that most LTHers appreciate.

Well, I got that off my chest and I feel better. BTW, a reference to Seinfeld's Soup Nazi was off handedly and jokingly used in one of these threads. For those of you who seriously believe that this is an accurate description of the owners of any of these establishments, or me for that matter for having the nerve to make these statements, let me remind you that Jason Alexander in a recent Tribune interview made the point that the characters on the show who used that term were "the most selfish people on the planet".

You want to whine about waiting in line or waiting for food under very trying, very unusual circumstances? Go ahead. But you have just told the entire LTH community exactly what kind of person is doing the complaining.

Buddy

Actually, we had some friends in town and out of all the places I mentioned to them as possible lunch spots, Kuma's was the one that stood out. I don't think we caught that episode of Check Please but I believe it had been mentioned 'round here so we probably should have been aware of it. We showed up at Kuma's by around 1:00, were seated at 1:10 or 1:15, our burgers arrived around 2:25 and we left around 2:40. My wife was a little stressed out because a lunch that we thought would be a fairly leisurely affair turned into a race to make it to our kids' school on time to pick them up. Maybe a little unfair of us for the reasons you mentioned. I don't think that justifies name-calling but hey, different strokes.

If you are ticked off at a group of people, the "whiners," maybe you could lay off my wife and go after the one who actually made the "soup nazi" reference you're disparaging.

While I think the whiners are, at most, a very small percentage of LTHers, your post is the kind of common sense that can go over many peoples' heads. Thanks for posting it.

And you've given me a convenient excuse for why I haven't been back to Burt's since Saveur came out.

I agree with you too Buddy. I feel like there's been a lot of really petty stuff posted about otherwise well-meaning restaurants around here lately.

Dear Friends,

We all have our off moments in life and in posting to LTH. Lets not focus on the negative, but on the wonderful positive that is LTHForum and Chicago's vibrant restaurant scene.

Let's bring this thread back on track please.

Thanks in advance,
Gary for the moderators

jesteinf wrote:I agree with you too Buddy. I feel like there's been a lot of really petty stuff posted about otherwise well-meaning restaurants around here lately.

What's wrong with posting about
long wait times and such?
I'd rather have this info out there,
than not. If anything, it allows people
to better adjust their schedules,
expectations and attitudes to
best experience a place.

Perhaps a mod could move Buddy's post and relevant replies to a new topic (and then delete this one)? It's certainly a valid topic for discussion, maybe just not under the Kuma's thread.

SCUBAchef wrote:

jesteinf wrote:I agree with you too Buddy. I feel like there's been a lot of really petty stuff posted about otherwise well-meaning restaurants around here lately.

What's wrong with posting about
long wait times and such?
I'd rather have this info out there,
than not. If anything, it allows people
to better adjust their schedules,
expectations and attitudes to
best experience a place.

My point is that I think this type of comment:

"Hey, I went to Restaurant X and it was pretty slammed. I guess the Check Please effect is really being felt"

Is far more reasonable than:

"I went to restaurant X and had to wait over an hour for my food. They really need to get their act together. I won't be back."

I think a lot of the retaurants discussed here really deserve the benefit of the doubt on stuff like this.

I'm going to politely defy Gary's request to get the thread back on track, only to answer JimTheBeerGuy in what I hope will be perceived as a respectful manner.

JimTheBeerGuy wrote:If you are ticked off at a group of people, the "whiners," maybe you could lay off my wife and go after the one who actually made the "soup nazi" reference you're disparaging.

First off, good for you for defending your wife! As the Irish say, "Fair play to ya!" I would have done the same in your situation and I accept your righteous indignation with head bowed and cap in hand. I was not responding to your wife's post specifically. I could have chosen any number of other responses in this thread or the others mentioned. I chose her post because:

a.) It was on this page of the thread, and

b.) she used the words "freakin" and "Egads", implying a level of consternation that, under the circumstances, was above and beyond what was necessary to express her frustration, thus sparking my own indignation.

Please understand that hers is just one of a collection of recent posts, in numerous threads, all focusing on the same issues that are all due in part to circumstances beyond these establishment's control. I was responding to all of these posts. I apologize for appearing to single her out.

As for the "soup nazi" reference it was not so much a response to that specific comment as it was my clumsy, circuitous attempt to paint anyone who would complain about the crowds or strained service at these, or any restaurant, under these particular circumstances, as being selfish and self centered. I know that last part probably doesn't make you feel any better, but I'm gonna stick to that assertion, let the chips fall where they may.

JimTheBeerGuy wrote:My wife was a little stressed out because a lunch that we thought would be a fairly leisurely affair turned into a race to make it to our kids' school on time to pick them up. Maybe a little unfair of us for the reasons you mentioned. I don't think that justifies name-calling but hey, different strokes.

Sorry you found yourselves in that situation. I understand that feeling of helplessness when waiting in line or waiting for service whether it is in a restaurant or a bank or what ever, when you need to be somewhere else for an appointment and know you won't make it or, at the very best, will be cutting it close. As for the name calling, I have to tell you, there were some other really choice words that I very deliberately left out of my post just to avoid being accused of name calling. I'm sorry, but these posts in these threads absolutely represent whining and the proof of it is in your own post:

JimTheBeerGuy wrote:I don't think we caught that episode of Check Please but I believe it had been mentioned 'round here so we probably should have been aware of it.

Okay, you wandered into Kuma's unaware of the Check Please exposure. Maybe it didn't even occur to you while you were sitting there waiting 50 minutes for your burgers. But surely you knew about it before your wife posted about the experience here. Once you understood the situation, that little light should have gone off in your head to say, "Now I understand the extenuating circumstances involved in our recent bad experience. I'm still aggravated, but maybe I shouldn't place all the blame on Kuma's/Xni-Pec/Burt's. Perhaps, the uncontrollable crowds brought in by this recent publicity have put an undue strain on the staffs of these places and it is not worth mentioning at this time. If I go back in two months or six months or whenever, and the crowds have leveled off a bit and they are still having problems, perhaps at that point it would be worth pointing out to the LTH community that this place is still having problems."

Jim, please understand that this was not a personal attack on your wife. It was an effort make everyone here think about the power that we have on LTH to make or break legitimate businesses. When people start complaining about long lines and long waits at restaurants about which they themselves have helped create the buzz, you have to wonder what they were thinking about in the first place.

Buddy

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:I'm going to politely defy Gary's request to get the thread back on track, only to answer JimTheBeerGuy in what I hope will be perceived as a respectful manner.

Buddy,

I requested for a reason, to get the thread back on track. Everyone, including you, occasionally appears strident, even uncompromising. When you first started posting about Burt's I found your (initial) posts verging on impolite and your online personality unlikeable. It was, almost, enough to keep me away from Burt's. Turns out you are a very likable fellow and Burt's has incredible pizza.

My point is it's easy to find something to take exception with, harder to take a deep breadth and lets things pass.

Regards,
Gary

When people start complaining about long lines and long waits at restaurants about which they themselves have helped create the buzz.

Keep your eye out for an exciting new thread, "LTHForum and the Prime Directive," about to appear in Other Culinary Chat.

G Wiv wrote:Let's bring this thread back on track please.

Okay:

After claiming (in the GNR thread, I think) that after a good number of visits, I'd yet to receive an overcooked burger, it finally happened! On the day of the Check Please airing (although my posts here give no indication of this, I am very, very smart), my burger came out almost well done (my gf's was cooked properly). This is by no means a deal breaker for me, especially since the fries have suddenly become quite good -- miles above their usual middling quality. Anyone else notice this? I think they've started double-frying them, or at least did on that day. Anyway, just thought I'd admit in the interest of honesty that the kitchen is not infallible.

I'll chime in.
First, in the interest of full disclosure, my wife is a cook there.
I really don't feel the need to defend Kuma's service and/or food to anyone. I don't own the place.
However, I do know Mike and his staff are doing the best they can to manage the increased business. My sleep-deprived wife has the sore back and burned arms to prove it.
I was there last Thursday(?) at 11 PM and snagged the last chair at the bar. I was amazed how busy it was even at that hour. The food orders were still coming in with no end in sight.
As an unexpected bonus - a representative from Laguanitas Brewery was in attendance. After thanking everyone for making Kuma's the number one vendor of Laguanita's Beer in Chicago, he and a companion entertained the crowd with some fine accoustic blues ala' Mississippi John Hurt. During their set, all the Laguanita's brews were on the house - courtesy of the brewery. It was probably the only time heavy metal has not been played during business hours.

YoYoPedro wrote: I thought the food photography captured the qualities that I enjoy in their food, and even convinced me that I need to order the calamari next time I'm in, and that would not be an item that I would normally consider eating there. "

YoYoPedro,

While I am by no means a calamari connoisseur, I will say that in my limited experience with calamari, Kuma's improbably made the best calamari I've had. They include fried lemon wedges and jalapenos, which unexpectedly add something to the dish. They also manage to fry the calamari without making it chewy, which seems to be the most common problem most restaurants have with it. So to bring things back to the topic, do not forget this promise to yourself the next time you go!

Incidentally, this is yet another restaurant which you all at LTH have introduced me to. I have been twice; the first time I think I caught them on an off night. The second, however, was sublime. I had the YOB burger along with the calamari and it was as good as it sounded.

Thanks again to LTH for another stellar find.

Love,
John

Please accept my apologies for what I said earlier.

At the very least, I should have tempered my remarks with praise for the actual food.

Like BuckyGourmand, I, too, ordered the Neurosis burger, and it was delicious! I ordered it medium, and it came perfectly cooked. That pretzel bun is something else - have made a mental note to try and find out where I can buy it.

My 2 cents is that both sides of the "complain/not complain" argument are valid. We should have empathy for restaurant owners and staff who are swamped as a direct result of the excellence they have worked hard to achieve. And we should feel free to report and read the experience from the customer side, when as a result of this swamping, the customer experience is no longer (at least for the time being) what it should be. When frustration is part of a customer's experience, a tone of frustration in the report is appropriate. Not for it to be in the report, in fact, would make the report less than fully truthful to the experience.

Since all my visits to Burt's and Kuma's have been pre-Check Please/Saveur, I have nothing but happy experiences at both places, and nothing but good will for the people at both; but at the same time I'm grateful for the opportunity to read what things are like there now--including the emotional component of the experience. (And that means as well the emotional component on the restaurant's side--although we should be controlling our emotions towards each other on this board.)

All of which goes to say, Saint Pizza, that while I admire your gracious apology, I don't think you had anything to apologize for. (I know I'm being a Big Buttinsky, because if you want to apologize, you darned well have a right to apologize, but purely as a reader of this thread, I feel you had a right to say it like you said it the first time. You conveyed not only what happened but how it felt. If part of this was that you didn't know about the Check Please segment at the time, that's OK. Customers are not required to know this, and have a right to expect a reasonable experience whether they watch public television or not.)

G Wiv wrote:It was, almost, enough to keep me away from Burt's.

If it weren't for your insistence that the place is terrific and you never having steered me wrong, his tone would certainly be enough to keep me away.


Can we please edit off the last dozen or so posts in this thread and move it into some sort of "whiners" post. Kuma's deserves better.

i know everyone is trying to get this thread back on topic, but i feel as though i sorta started this when i posted about our experience at kuma's on saturday. i was not whining, just stating the facts. i was aware of it having been on check please and was not surprised by the wait. i will admit our 12 and 15 year old girls were not happy, but such is life. however i have noticed, especially regarding gnr's some people seem a bit touchy. i have only recently joined your community and i must say that in the future i will be reluctant to post anything that could be construed as negative for fear of being excommunicated. this cannot be a good thing for the forum. just my humble opinion. sorry, i'll say no more.

Abolt, that's an overreaction. No one is excommunicated* for expressing honest opinions even about the most widely-beloved restaurants here. This was an odd thread (or tangent within one, which probably should get moved), and it got kinda personal in various ways that we discourage (which is why we kept nudging it back on track), but at the same time, sheesh, compared to the internet generally things are pretty damn civil here. To the extent there was kind of a bad dynamic going on here, it had more to do with than just Kuma's, as noted a couple of times we suddenly had a bunch of posts knocking places we helped make popular for the sin of being... popular. I think this is something where nobody's obviously wrong (or solely right)-- people should talk about their real experiences, that is the point, but at the same time, I certainly think people should have perspective, in a city of eight million in takes very little media attention to swamp a small place and in many cases it is far better for those places to remain who they are and just be overcrowded for a while than to do something that radically alters their character (like Burt hiring a couple of teenagers to help out-- you really have to go to Burt's to see how off that would be).

Anyway, express your opinions forthrightly, occasionally someone will take exception to them but don't take that as representing "the voice of LTHForum" disagreeing with you, it's just all part of the discussion, no more or less valuable than your own.

* If you want to know what it really takes to get excommunicated here, and how rare it is, readthis. Of course, I recognize there's more than one way to get chased off a site, and we try to keep that from happening.

Someone mentioned the calamari at Kuma's and... I have to agree. Wholeheartedly. I'm hardly a calamari fan generally, but the inclusion of battered and fried lemon wedges and rosemary really elevated the dish. I consider them a 'must-get' every time I visit.

Speaking of visits, I was there last Friday at about 4pm. Plenty of tables. By the time my friend and I left around 6:30, though, every seat was taken and there were a couple of people standing around waiting. We didn't get any food, but it seemed like orders were coming out quickly enough while we were there.

(I know, no food at Kuma's? My friend and I had just come from Hot Doug's and the idea of following up a Saucisse de Toulouse with Black Truffle Butter and Belletoile Cheese with a Led Zepplin in one day was... well, it was a little much; but sausages at Doug's and then beer at Kuma's worked out just fine).

Oy.

My apologies for even starting this sidetrack. It stemmed from the same level of frustration that I'm sure was experienced by the folks who have been subjected to long waits at the aforementioned restaurants.

Thank you to Saint Pizza, not just for her apology, but for her courage and humility to extend it. My apologies to her if I caused her any undue stress.

Finally, I think what Mike G. said sums up nicely what I was trying to get at in my ire. There's nothing wrong with negative posts if they are warranted. However, all factors should be considered when choosing your words. Particularly when the circumstances have been created, either wholly or in part, by reviews here on LTH.

That's the last I've got to say on this matter unless it is moved to its own thread in another forum. I hope others will follow my lead and let Kuma's be Kuma's.

Buddy

I've got it!
A Kumacam©, viewable from the website, will provide updated views of the dining area so folks can plan accordingly.

Mike G wrote:I certainly think people should have perspective, in a city of eight million in takes very little media attention to swamp a small place and in many cases it is far better for those places to remain who they are and just be overcrowded for a while than to do something that radically alters their character (like Burt hiring a couple of teenagers to help out-- you really have to go to Burt's to see how off that would be).

I agree 100% with you Mike. Having seen the Check Please! effect in action with a couple of my favorite places, I have to say it's a mixed blessing and one should keep their perspective. When a restaurant that is used to seeing a certain amount of diners every day all of a sudden gets five or more times the clientele, that will understandably lead to a few weeks of adjustment and growing pains while they find their footing. It's completely understandable and forgivable, providing they use that month to find their feet and return to the same level of service and quality of food they had prior to Check Please! I would never fault a restaurant for slow service or inconsistent food after such a sudden influx of media attention. I've personally never been to Kuma's, but I would reserve judgment on them for at least a month until they find their feet.

My boyfriend and I decided to go to Kuma's for a late dinner last night. We haven't been back in a while and definitely not since their recent press. We got there around 9:30 to find the place completely packed. All was well though, because the hostess was very courteous and helpful. She kept coming back to give us updates on our table. Apparently there were a few tables of patrons that weren't ordering food but were just drinking for hours. But she offered to take our order while we were standing and waiting in hopes that it would get in before the order for the table of 7 that had just been sat. Very considerate on her part! We ended up sitting at the bar, right at the end, in full view of their kitchen. Their sous-chef, I think his name might be Jacob, according to Gary's pictures, gave us quite a show! We couldn't stop watching him saute and broil and sweat and headbang and drink red gatorade.

But the food, oh the glorious food! Boyfriend got the Neurosis with the garden burger option. I got the Metallica in all its full beefy buffaloey bacony blue cheesy glory. It was cooked a little more than my requested medium, but I was hungry and didn't mind all that much. I also have seen no mention on the board here about their amazing ketchup. I don't know if it's homemade, but it is giardiniera flavored and is incredible.

We were having a great night, with no rush or anywhere to be. But the manager said our beers were on them. The hostess told us that since that infamous PBS show, it's been like Saturday night every night. They seem to be taking it in stride though, trying to please people as much as they can even when there's a wait.

Another thing I haven't really seen mentioned is that Kuma's seems to have become a philanthropist in our community. It seems that they designate certain nights' profits to go to various causes. It's nice to see them share in their good fortune.

We'll be back, hopefully sooner rather than later. Can't get enough of that ketchup!

Sharona

I have a quick question that I can't find the answer to in this thread. I know that Kuma's is essentially a neighborhood bar that serves delicious food, but if you go early (let's say 5pm) is it appropriate to for young children? Or are kids strictly a no-no?

Thanks