GAF wrote:

na wrote:Btw, who in the heck is this Plotnicki character?

That's what Google is for!

Apparently somebody other than himself knows his name. I'm sure you'll find something.

Dmnkly wrote:

GAF wrote:

na wrote:Btw, who in the heck is this Plotnicki character?

That's what Google is for!

Apparently somebody other than himself knows his name. I'm sure you'll find something.

Nah, just read the thread, nerd that I am. Okay, everybody, let's NOT increase this dude's "hit" count.

All I know is that ChefGEB better come out of the kitchen and flirt with me when I'm at Graham Elliot next. And a special tasting menu be whipped up just for me!

I will afterall be flying in from Los Angeles, and I am an experienced diner, "exploring terrific restaurants far and wide". I have a keen curiosity of restaurants, which I cover in LTHForum and Flickr. I had been to Graham Elliot once before, about a year or so ago. But Chef Elliot did not feel that I was important enough to leave the comfort of his kitchen to schmooze with me. It has taken me a year to get over this snub, and and willing to give him a second chance.

By the way I am not an out of towner. I live down the street from Graham Elliot in Chicago, and I fly to LA each week from Sunday to Thursday. I love my life in Chicago and live here by choice despite the commute. My hobbies are dining out and being a complete bitch. I love all kinds of places from hot dog stands to French Laundry. On the side I write food reviews for myself and fellow foodies on LTHForum.



And btw I had to google this Plotnicki person too... Sometimes I think people are "celebrities" in their own mind. Especially this barbecue guy, Gary Wivout? Wivvie-out? Who does he think he is?! Master of the Smoker? Jeez!

Well, for one thing, this is Steve Plotnicki:

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=966

You might find these of particular interest, in stating his case for his methods as seen above:

viewtopic.php?p=259352#p259352
viewtopic.php?p=259352#p259352

If you like living vicariously through someone else's Black Card and hate, you know, proper usage of commas and other forms of in-sentence punctuation, Plotnicki's your man.

Has the recent doings of this thread made its way back to L20/Gras yet? (And, if so, what's the word from HQ?) It's always interesting to see how such things are diffused and communicated in the age of the internets...

Do you guys really think it's that unusual a request to ask the chef to cook for you? Candidly some of your comments sound awfully provincial. At restaurants of a certain caliber they are asked this all the time. Michel Troigros did this for some wine friends and me. Daniel Humm does it all the time at Eleven Madison Park when we go there. I'm going to The Modern and I will ask Gabriel to put together a meal. Shane does this (and did two weeks ago) at Craftsteak. And on and on.

I'm a nobody in the sense I do not have a blog nor am I a professional critic. But my friends (I'm not talking about Steve or Gary) and I make these requests all the time and nobody bats an eye. Why it should be an issue at L2o is beyond me.

I'm sorry if this sounds foreign to Mike G and others. But honestly there's
a big world out there. Businesses such as a 4 star restaurant that wants to play in the big leagues better know how to handle this kind of request
no matter who the diner. At a succesful 4 star restaurant every customer is a big shot.

Sorry to rant but geez. Some folks sound like the request is so rare or out of place. It isn't at this level. You need to get out more if you think so.

DutchMuse wrote:Sorry to rant but geez. Some folks sound like the request is so rare or out of place. It isn't at this level. You need to get out more if you think so.

I think you mistake disdain for ignorance, DM.

DutchMuse wrote:At a succesful 4 star restaurant every customer is a big shot.

I think what you're encountering is annoyance with those who patronize such restaurants more for this reason than for the food. Or at least those who won't be satisfied with a fine dining restaurant if their egos aren't stroked by the staff.

I'm not in the anti-fine dining camp. I love fine dining. But I go because I want to have some incredible food. Not because I want to be a big shot. It's not the request in and of itself that I find distasteful. It's the idea of being careful to announce my presence beforehand so I can be extra special, or that I'm making this request because I can that doesn't sit well.

DutchMuse wrote:Do you guys really think it's that unusual a request to ask the chef to cook for you? Candidly some of your comments sound awfully provincial. At restaurants of a certain caliber they are asked this all the time. Michel Troigros did this for some wine friends and me. Daniel Humm does it all the time at Eleven Madison Park when we go there. I'm going to The Modern and I will ask Gabriel to put together a meal. Shane does this (and did two weeks ago) at Craftsteak. And on and on.

I'm a nobody in the sense I do not have a blog nor am I a professional critic. But my friends (I'm not talking about Steve or Gary) and I make these requests all the time and nobody bats an eye. Why it should be an issue at L2o is beyond me.

I'm sorry if this sounds foreign to Mike G and others. But honestly there's
a big world out there. Businesses such as a 4 star restaurant that wants to play in the big leagues better know how to handle this kind of request
no matter who the diner. At a succesful 4 star restaurant every customer is a big shot.

Sorry to rant but geez. Some folks sound like the request is so rare or out of place. It isn't at this level. You need to get out more if you think so.

The attitude throughout this entire post is rather indicative of the attitude I believe other posters here have found, mm, repulsive since the original account of your meal. Rather enlightening, really. Much like the whole "well, I name-dropped my dinner companions when emailing the sommelier like any other Joe Schmo who dines there would, but expected no special treatment of any sort."

And P.S., the suggestion that the issue is with us unwashed heathens who just don't understand how things are done "at this level" doesn't help with that disdain.

Gentlemen, all. Let us stick to the issues - and to the food and restaurant.

We're family . . . uh, well, maybe that is not the best way to put it.

Do you guys really think it's that unusual a request to ask the chef to cook for you? Candidly some of your comments sound awfully provincial...

I'm sorry if this sounds foreign to Mike G and others. But honestly there's a big world out there. Businesses such as a 4 star restaurant that wants to play in the big leagues better know how to handle this kind of request no matter who the diner. At a succesful 4 star restaurant every customer is a big shot.

Oh, if only someday I might live in a palace, and have servants to wait upon my every whim too. Then I will know what it means to have lived.

I've know DutchMuse for about 7 years and many of the posters here are reading way too much into a few of the comments on this thread. He is one of the kindest, most generous and polite wine / food person I've come across on these here internets. It sickens me to see someone who really has so much knowledge to offer this board treated this way.

Does anybody happen to have any Grey Poupon?

mhill95149 wrote:I've know DutchMuse for about 7 years and many of the posters here are reading way too much into a few of the comments on this thread. He is one of the kindest, most generous and polite wine / food person I've come across on these here internets. It sickens me to see someone who really has so much knowledge to offer this board treated this way.

My comments actually weren't directed at DutchMuse and I thought this a (mostly) polite, if passionate, conversation until some of us were reduced to provincial yokels who need to get out more due to the fact that we're not on a first name basis with the staff at Craftsteak.

Wow, can't we just get back to hating on the stupid food ranking that Plotnicki creates? In other words, wow, this has really run its course.

Query for Dutch Muse, re his comment in the "Wine Berserkers" forum:

When they told me they were not allowed to speak to the Chef directly, I commented, "That's why airliners crash" (referring to the 'royal Captain" who in the past was Godlike and unapproachable, resulting in Cockpit Resource Management.)

Oh, lordy lord - please tell me that you didn't actually say this. Do you not have an inner censor that prevents utterly illogical and borderline offensive thoughts like this from actually coming out of your mouth? Did you honestly think that this was going to somehow help you and your cronies get your way?

DutchMuse wrote:Do you guys really think it's that unusual a request to ask the chef to cook for you? Candidly some of your comments sound awfully provincial. At restaurants of a certain caliber they are asked this all the time. Michel Troigros did this for some wine friends and me. Daniel Humm does it all the time at Eleven Madison Park when we go there. I'm going to The Modern and I will ask Gabriel to put together a meal. Shane does this (and did two weeks ago) at Craftsteak. And on and on.

It's not what you asked for that surprises me, it's your reaction to the house's response that does. I ask for this type of meal frequently and I happen to love this style of dining. In many cases, I prefer it. But when it isn't available, I accept that -- along with what the restaurant does have to offer -- and move on. I realize that in this case, you were not initially given a clear-cut response to your request but it seems like some people in your party were still upset that the request was not met, long after it became obvious that the request would not be met. Their place, their rules. I'm confused as to why anyone was confused by this. If this disappoints any diner, I see no reason for that diner to return. Why would they?

Ultimately, because of many of the specifics laid out here, the experience is not, in my opinion, a truly reflective one. I find the reports mostly dismissable, since the goals of some of the diners in this party seem so completely different from what mine would have been. I appreciate the specific details that were provided about the dishes, though.

=R=

jpschust wrote:Wow, can't we just get back to hating on the stupid food ranking that Plotnicki creates? In other words, wow, this has really run its course.

Amen. Now that a few posts have decided to use this opportunity to begin ad hominem attacks, can we please get back to the food and the restaurant? For the good of the thread, and the board, can't we please just let it go?

Don't know about the rest of you but from now on I'm making my dinner reservations under the name of this Plotnicki character.

Also, if Chef GE is still reading, a few weeks ago at the end of the meal at GE, a simple comment to our server to tell the chef how much we enjoyed dinner resulted in an invitation to the kitchen and a chance to tell the chef in person. He was really busy and I didn't expect him to fawn over me or the other guests in our party(no offense chef but it was much more fun just to look around the kitchen and watch the action). A few words was all that we got and that was all that was expected. I HAD mentioned that my name was Vlad the Impaler, Lord of all Evil. The service, by the way, was impeccable all evening.

Bravo to both Jaybo and Hoppy for nice additions to this delightful thread in its winding-down/tsk, tsk phase.

Personally, this whole business reminded me of this hilarious (speaking of what's hilarious, thanks G. for the compliment) ancient JeffB anecdote, from Chowhound days, about Gene & Georgetti's:

Sorry for the digression, but my soft spot for the place comes from a dinner at G&G a few years ago when Fleetwood Mac was in town for a reunion tour. The place is packed. A huge man with an Australian accent shoves up to the maitre 'd, who as it turns out is an even bigger Italian-American gentleman in a natty suit. The Aussie, a bodyguard, says importantly, I've got Lindsay Buckingham here. The maitre d' snaps back, who the f*ck is Lindsay Buckingham? Just then, the Aussie steps aside to reveal the diminutive rock star, and responds sheepishly, you know, from Fleetwood Mac.

Gypsy Boy wrote:

jpschust wrote:Wow, can't we just get back to hating on the stupid food ranking that Plotnicki creates? In other words, wow, this has really run its course.

Amen. Now that a few posts have decided to use this opportunity to begin ad hominem attacks, can we please get back to the food and the restaurant? For the good of the thread, and the board, can't we please just let it go?

An ad hominem attack would have been calling Ploinicki stupid, which I didn't do. I called the ranking stupid.

jpschust wrote:

Gypsy Boy wrote:

jpschust wrote:Wow, can't we just get back to hating on the stupid food ranking that Plotnicki creates? In other words, wow, this has really run its course.

Amen. Now that a few posts have decided to use this opportunity to begin ad hominem attacks, can we please get back to the food and the restaurant? For the good of the thread, and the board, can't we please just let it go?

An ad hominem attack would have been calling Ploinicki stupid, which I didn't do. I called the ranking stupid.

Thanks for the explanation. As it happens, I wasn't referring to you or your post. Besides, I thought it would have been evident that I was agreeing with you that this had run its course.

Minor tangent - we've got an early evening reservation on Saturday, and I was wondering: what's the recommended attire for L.2O? Jacket and slacks? Suit and tie?

I'm not looking to be a bigshot, only to fit in with my fellow nobodies

Neither of my two companions wore a jacket or tie, but me - a fellow nobody - wore a jacket and tie. Wear what would make you feel comfortable. The atmosphere at L2O is not stuffy at all.

GAF wrote:Neither of my two companions wore a jacket or tie, but me - a fellow nobody - wore a jacket and tie. Wear what would make you feel comfortable. The atmosphere at L2O is not stuffy at all.

Agreed. The first time we went, I wore a jacket and tie. I felt completely comfortable, although there were people dressed more elegantly and people dressed more casually. The second time, in the tatami room, I went (as did ronnie_suburban, who joined us), in nice slacks and no tie or jacket. Again, we felt completely comfortable. Despite what I think is a slightly sterile feel to the room, my guess is that you'll feel comfortable either way; the range of dress in the room and the professionalism of the staff helps with that quite a bit, as well. Good luck--I hope you enjoy your dinner!

I usually do either a jacket with no tie or a suit (also with no tie).

Thanks for the advice! It sounds like throwing a jacket over business casual should be a safe bet.

I look forward to reporting back from the average provincial shmoe's point of view

Dutchmuse, do you customize each of your lectures to your student's whims? Just because it's a service industry does not mean you're entitled to individualized treatment. If you want a butler, hire one.

Personally I was enjoying the debate about whether I run a nationally recognized survey, but I guess that can be left for another day. And to be honest, I haven't read through this entire thread but I thought I would weigh in on the subject because the discussion has veered off topic a bit. Here is the issue. When someone walks into a restaurant and says we would like the kitchen to cook for us, all they are really asking is for the kitchen to send out what they think is their best meal. In some instances that might mean you get dishes that aren't on the menu, and in some instances, the kitchen might devise a tasting menu of what they feel are their best dishes.

One instance that comes to mind was at a restaurant in Spain called Hispania. It's a famous regional restaurant run by two sisters about 40 miles up the coast from Barcelona. We were 8 for lunch on a Friday and the menu must have had a 100 different items on it. One of the owners approached our table to take our order. I explained to her that we were unfamilar with the restaurant and the food of the region, and I would like her to choose our meal and to make sure that we recieved a good sampling of the cuisine they served. Well she ended up sending out between 10-12 dishes, some better than others, but the ones she was most proud of. Two of the dishes, a chicken escabeche and a langoustine that was stewed with potatoes, were classic Catalan dishes that taught me something about the region's cuisine. But I wouldn't have known to order them if I was left to my own devices.


Now what happened at L2O wasn’t all that different. Typically, at restaurant that holds themselves out to be important the way L2O does, asking the kitchen to cook for you usually has a specific meaning. And in their instance where it doesn’t, the idea that Laurent Gras isn’t capable of choosing our meal, ala the sister Rexac at Hispania, doesn’t compute to me. But instead of Laurent choosing our meal, what happened was that they had Allison our server choose the meal without telling is and if that was going to be the case I would have preferred to choose my own meal. That’s what bothered me.

But it’s the first point that is a bit shocking to me and I don’t think this thread has really dealt with that issue so far. Which is, doesn’t Laurent Gras have enough pride in his artistry to send out a dish where our server can say to us, “Laurent is really proud of this dish and he wanted you to taste it? “ That’s really what we were looking for. Not special treatment the way some people here try to characterize it. But an enhanced dialogue with an artist. And in my experience, it is very odd for a chef to turn that request down. I mean if I walked into anyone of Chicago's Chinese restaurants and said"what fish looks best today, they would be happy to oblige me. Couldn't Laurent Gras do the same simple thing?