midas wrote:Second, I understand that some places aren't on the list simply because nobody could try ever pizza place in the city. But how does the original Uno's not make the list at all? Sure the franchises are awful and the wait is interminable. But this is a rating of pizza and it surely deserves a spot in the top 25.

Having eaten there within the last couple of weeks, followed by pizza at Burt's a few nights later, I'm not sure I agree. I felt even the flagship Uno's was but a shadow of its former self. The difference between that pizza and the one I had at Burt's was like the difference between an order of Katy's noodles and shoelaces.

stevez wrote:

midas wrote:Second, I understand that some places aren't on the list simply because nobody could try ever pizza place in the city. But how does the original Uno's not make the list at all? Sure the franchises are awful and the wait is interminable. But this is a rating of pizza and it surely deserves a spot in the top 25.

Having eaten there within the last couple of weeks, followed by pizza at Burt's a few nights later, I'm not sure I agree. I felt even the flagship Uno's was but a shadow of its former self. The difference between that pizza and the one I had at Burt's was like the difference between an order of Katy's noodles and shoelaces.

Yeah, I have to agree. My last trip to the flagship Uno's was (hopefully) my last. It was not even a good pizza . . . and it used to be my favorite many years ago. It's off my radar, though it arguably deserves a prominent place in the Chicago Pizza Hall of Fame.

=R=

I have to admit, it's been a few years since I've been to Uno's. I'm really saddened to hear that it's not what it used to be. Amazing that they could screw up something that's been working for over 50 years.

Dear Lord...those photos in the article are horrendous.....pizzas look like they've been sitting around for HOURS.......weak.....

Now if you want to see beautiful (and most likely delicious) pizza, go the "Homemade Pizza Gallery" thread. I think any one of these pizza makers would top anyone’s list!

whocanitbenow wrote:On a different side of the spectrum. I've been very impressed with Coalfire's thin crust.

whocanitbenow wrote:I've only been to Great Lake twice and enjoyed their pizzas a good deal

whocanitbenow wrote:Crust is another one that baffles me

Whocanitbenow--you and I are on the same pizza page (though Great Lake and Coalfire are neck and neck for me and I still haven't been to Burt's.

As soon as I saw Crust on list, my eyes kind of glazed over. I was really unimpressed with my last visit there.
Piece makes decent pizza (but number 2? ahead of Coalfire? come on)

aschie30 wrote:If the pizza Ruby had at Vito & Nick's was anything like the soggy, greasy mess served during a recent visit, then I'm not surprised.

A pizza topped with green pepper, red pepper, and ... what else is that ... celery? is bound to be soggy.

Katie wrote:

aschie30 wrote:If the pizza Ruby had at Vito & Nick's was anything like the soggy, greasy mess served during a recent visit, then I'm not surprised.

A pizza topped with green pepper, red pepper, and ... what else is that ... celery? is bound to be soggy.

Katie, it's giardiniera. The pizza had two toppings - sausage and giardiniera.

I'm a big fan of giardiniera on pizza, but it often adds a ton of oil to pizza.. for pizzas where the cracker crust is paramount, I omit it. It goes great on pizza at Santullo's, and banana peppers are awesome on Piece's pizza, but I wouldn't do it on V&N's.

gleam wrote:I'm a big fan of giardiniera on pizza, but it often adds a ton of oil to pizza.. for pizzas where the cracker crust is paramount, I omit it. It goes great on pizza at Santullo's, and banana peppers are awesome on Piece's pizza, but I wouldn't do it on V&N's.

I don't agree -- if there's one type of pizza that can supposedly take a lot of toppings, it's Chicago-style thin crust. One of the biggest complaints about this type of pizza by non-natives (myself included) is that it is, by practice, overly topped. Besides, I really don't think the toppings were the problem. 1/2 of that pizza was totally underdone. There have been other similar complaints about V&N's. I mean, I think V&Ns should know how to properly top & cook a 2-topping pizza -- especially a topping that is made in-house and sold by the jars (is it not?). (Besides, are we now going to start the LTH game of blaming the patron for not ordering the right toppings, not ordering the crust well-done, not going back in the kitchen and supervising prep, etc.? ) As for me, I wouldn't put giard on a NY-style or CT-style pizza like that at Santullo's or Piece precisely because the crust is thinner and the pizza is meant to be more lightly topped.

well, I don't think of V&Ns as being the same as Chicago-style thin crust.. Chicago style thin (to me) is usually thicker than V&Ns and breadier, both of which I think help it stand up to stuff like giardiniera.

I'm not blaming you for misordering. I think they could have drained a lot more oil off the giardiniera before topping the pizza and it probably would have been quite a bit better.

aschie30 wrote:(Besides, are we now going to start the LTH game of blaming the patron for not ordering the right toppings, not ordering the crust well-done, not going back in the kitchen and supervising prep, etc.? )

For me one of the benefits of a forum such as LTH is gleaning ordering tips and tricks. That said, I don't think you ordered wrong at Vito and Nick's and I've had giardiniera topped pizza there with excellent results. Though the first time a tablemate, the ever local VitalInfo, ordered giardiniera/Italian beef on a V & N pizza I was aghast, was tasty and now sausage/giardiniera is in my regular pizza lineup no matter the place.

Far as your not-so-good V & N pizza, luck of the draw, happens once in a while, its happened to me at V & N and pretty much everyone I know who goes on a regular basis. No excuse, but I'd venture I've had at least one stinker meal at most if not all of my favorite places, some multiple times. I include 'Little' Three Happiness, Honey 1, Uncle John's, Sun Wah, Patty's, Elephant Thai, Spoon Thai, Taqueria Tierra Caliente, even had a so-so brunch one time at Mado. Only favorite I have not experienced an off day is Birrieria Zaragoza, but I'm guessing it will eventually happen. (List is off the top of my head, does not represent all my favorites in Chicago.

So, Wendy, I would suggest not writing off Vito & Nick's from one bad experience, it happens sometimes, sorry it happened to you.

Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:That said, I don't think you ordered wrong at Vito and Nick's and I've had giardiniera topped pizza there with excellent results.

Me too. In fact, one of the best pizzas I've ever eaten anywhere was a pie from V & N's that included gardiniera. But, as I posted above I've also had poor experiences there, too. Such is life.

=R=

A recent sausage-giard ‘za at V&N was very good, and I was impressed that when they packed up some slices for me to bring home, they used thin paper to separate slices so as to maintain their individual integrity. Little things like that impress me a lot.

I looked at the pictures of the pies that Chicago Mag included with the story and can't believe that they almost all looked the same. Crust overdone/burnt, simple tomato sauce applied sparingly and stopping an inch or so from the edge, small globs of cheese and a wilted basil leaf.

I understand that this is the trendy Neapolitan style pie that many north-siders are agog about, but this isn't anything that I would ever order.

I'm a south-sider and we still have great Americanized places...Home Run Inn, Vito and Nicks and even Beggars.

This article is somewhat like this forum; only concerned with places from Roosevelt Rd.-north.

PJ Murphy wrote:I looked at the pictures of the pies that Chicago Mag included with the story and can't believe that they almost all looked the same. Crust overdone/burnt, simple tomato sauce applied sparingly and stopping an inch or so from the edge, small globs of cheese and a wilted basil leaf.

I understand that this is the trendy Neapolitan style pie that many north-siders are agog about, but this isn't anything that I would ever order.

I'm a south-sider and we still have great Americanized places...Home Run Inn, Vito and Nicks and even Beggars.

Really, PJ? You're going to try to start a North Side / South Side skirmish over pizza? Is it so necessary to view everything through that prism that you need to pick a fight and start stereotyping regions of the city by what kind of pizza they eat?

PJ Murphy wrote:This article is somewhat like this forum; only concerned with places from Roosevelt Rd.-north.

Then write about the great pizza places south of Roosevelt. If everybody who complained that places in X area aren't written up actually wrote about them, it would no longer be the case.

PJ, the half-dozen or so posts before yours were focused on V & N's.

Dmnkly wrote:

PJ Murphy wrote:I looked at the pictures of the pies that Chicago Mag included with the story and can't believe that they almost all looked the same. Crust overdone/burnt, simple tomato sauce applied sparingly and stopping an inch or so from the edge, small globs of cheese and a wilted basil leaf.

I understand that this is the trendy Neapolitan style pie that many north-siders are agog about, but this isn't anything that I would ever order.

I'm a south-sider and we still have great Americanized places...Home Run Inn, Vito and Nicks and even Beggars.

Really, PJ? You're going to try to start a North Side / South Side skirmish over pizza? Is it so necessary to view everything through that prism that you need to pick a fight and start stereotyping regions of the city by what kind of pizza they eat?.

Good points. I stand humbly chastised

PJ Murphy wrote:This article is somewhat like this forum; only concerned with places from Roosevelt Rd.-north.
Then write about the great pizza places south of Roosevelt. If everybody who complained that places in X area aren't written up actually wrote about them, it would no longer be the case.

See above.

While I tend to sympathize that the south side is underrepresented here, it's mostly because most LTHers are north siders, and I don't expect them to truck down to 95th and Cicero for Palermo's, even though it's easily as good as many other beloved pizzas here. Likewise for Roseangela's, Fox's, and Barraco's. Those last two are especially similar to, and in my experience more consistent than, Vito and Nick's, with superior carmelization. Roseangela's crust is ethereal; only the cheese really holds them back from greatness in my mind. Nearly all mentions of Roseangela on here discuss things other than pizza, which is sad--someday I'll get around to posting pics. Palermo's produces excellent pizza at all levels--super thin, regular, and deep dish/pan--so long as it's a bit overdone. Beggar's and Home Run Inn don't even show up on the radar when you've got these places around. IMO, V&N's only wins accolades by virtue of its neighborhoody charm, and the lack of delivery keeps it out of my starting rotation.

Palermo's 95th
4849 West 95th Street
Oak Lawn, IL 60453-2521
(708) 425-6262
http://www.palermos95th.com/

Roseangela's
2807 1/2 W 95th St
Evergreen Park, IL 60805
(708) 422-2041

Fox's Beverly
9956 South Western Avenue
Chicago, IL 60643-1831
(773) 239-3212‎

Barraco's
3701 W 95th St
Evergreen Park, IL 60805
(708) 424-8182
http://www.barracos.com

I don't understand how they could leave off Uno's and Due's either. We always go to Due's and I haven't seen any drop in quality.

mtgl wrote:While I tend to sympathize that the south side is underrepresented here, it's mostly because most LTHers are north siders, and I don't expect them to truck down to 95th and Cicero for Palermo's, even though it's easily as good as many other beloved pizzas here.

See, that's the thing; if north siders were more aware of these places we actually would be more likely to head down your way and check them out. It's not that there is any bias on the part of us northerners, it's just a lack of familiarity. If you south siders would make your presence more strongly felt, and if you would write about more of these places, I think you'd see a steady migration of adventurous north side folks coming down your way to see what you're raving about.

Personally, I think there is a vast unexplored world south of Madison Street. I'd love to learn more about the wide array of dining choices on the south side and south suburbs. But because it is a long way to drive, I would be more likely to make the trek if I had some heads up information about some really stellar places before I turn the key in the ignition.

South siders, don't hide your light under a bushel. Teach us a thing or two. If you tell us, we will come.

Buddy

gleam wrote:well, I don't think of V&Ns as being the same as Chicago-style thin crust.. Chicago style thin (to me) is usually thicker than V&Ns and breadier, both of which I think help it stand up to stuff like giardiniera.

Really

I think of V&N as exactly Chicago style pizza, thin a/k/a bar pizza a/k/a square cut pizza. I think the defining attributes of this style of pizza are 1) ultra thin crust, usually machine rolled 2) limited edge crust, ie, the pizza has the same elevation across 3) square cuts (duh).

I think of the "standard" NY style pizza as a thicker crust, with a significant, almost doughy, edge, and of course, cut in wedges. Now, I've commented on this before, but the NY slice pizza is not the same thing as the pizza at say, John's in NYC. I think New Yorkers and their ilk tend to conflate the two as if saying Great Lakes was "Chicago style".

If you order a thin from a place that has different kinds of crusts-- in other words, from Giordano's, Bacino's, Art of Pizza, your slice pizza down the street-- it will typically be quite a bit thicker and breadier than V&N.

The ultrathin, cracker crust is a definite Chicago-- well, Chicago-Milwaukee area-- thing, though, and not that hard to find here. Still, if you picked ten places out of the yellow pages and picked thin, I'd bet you'd get at least 7 pizzas more like the first kind. I suspect it's easier to work with, precisely because it's not so thin.

PJ Murphy wrote:This article is somewhat like this forum; only concerned with places from Roosevelt Rd.-north.

There are hundreds of threads about places south of Roosevelt, Chinatown, Pilsen, Little Village, going farther south BBQ and jerk joints, soul food, pizza. In addition, ReneG/Peter Engler, a nationally recognized authority on Chicago's south and west side culinary history, is an active LTHForum participant. Peter has done amazing excavation work on such diverse topics as the Big Baby, the Freddy, the Mother In-Law and Mississippi Delta Tamales, to name but a few.

Regards,
Gary

Vital Information wrote:

gleam wrote:well, I don't think of V&Ns as being the same as Chicago-style thin crust.. Chicago style thin (to me) is usually thicker than V&Ns and breadier, both of which I think help it stand up to stuff like giardiniera.

Really

I think of V&N as exactly Chicago style pizza, thin a/k/a bar pizza a/k/a square cut pizza. I think the defining attributes of this style of pizza are 1) ultra thin crust, usually machine rolled 2) limited edge crust, ie, the pizza has the same elevation across 3) square cuts (duh).

V&N = Chicago Bar Style thin crust
Home Run Inn - Chicago thin crust

Both unique and not to be confused

Panther in the Den wrote:

Vital Information wrote:V&N = Chicago Bar Style thin crust
Home Run Inn - Chicago thin crust

Both unique and not to be confused

What's the difference between these two styles?

ld111134 wrote:

Panther in the Den wrote:V&N = Chicago Bar Style thin crust
Home Run Inn - Chicago thin crust

Both unique and not to be confused

What's the difference between these two styles?

The Bar Style will have a thinner crust and sweeter sauce. I have had some with crumbled sausage but V&N's uses a nice chunk sausage.



Overall the BS pizza tends to be thin all the way to the edge.

mtgl wrote:While I tend to sympathize that the south side is underrepresented here, it's mostly because most LTHers are north siders, and I don't expect them to truck down to 95th and Cicero for Palermo's, even though it's easily as good as many other beloved pizzas here...Nearly all mentions of Roseangela on here discuss things other than pizza, which is sad--someday I'll get around to posting pics. Palermo's produces excellent pizza at all levels--super thin, regular, and deep dish/pan...

I can't speak for others, and you may have pegged them correctly, but you've certainly got me all wrong. I'll trek down to 95th and Cicero any day for the pizza of my dreams. As Buddy wrote, "If you tell us, we will come." Chicago is a massive city with a massive amount of pizzerias. Lth is open for you to post about these places, not just for other people to post about these places instead of you. I'd assume that many of the patrons of those places are not aware of LTH, but YOU are.

"If you tell us, we will come." - Buddyroadhouse

"If you don't tell us, it's just another pizza joint on the southside I drove by a few times. Wish someone would have said something, cuz there's a pizza joint every two blocks" - Seebee

Point taken, naturally. I just meant that because there seem to be more north siders around, north side places are much more likely statistically to be covered/stumbled across/written up nicely than south side places. I fully admit to contributing to the problem, as I am confident in neither my picture-taking/food-porn skills or writing abilities--but this thread's given me inspiration to try again with some pics. The four I mentioned might make a nice pizza crawl for anyone interested. I personally rank them in this order:
Palermo's>Roseangela's>>Fox's>Barraco's. And yes, that's a "much greater than" sign in the middle. This ranking is thoroughly biased by having grown up eating these, though, so factor in some nostalgia. In terms of defining characteristics, Palermo's has a sweet, somewhat spicy sauce; Roseangela's has a really light, charred crust; and Fox's/Barraco's fall into the V&N vein, though generally greasier, which is occasionally good and occasionally annoying.

posting about some great new place >> writing style

I assure you, if you call attention to something worthy, nobody's gonna call you on technicalities.