ronnie_suburban wrote:... Even though Vienna products are all beef, ...

If you follow the link I posted, even that statement is not quite true. Some of their products actually use pork (or sheep) casings. That was a surprise to me as well.

There is a lot more to being Kosher than just using all beef, and having a Rabbi bless things. And being a non practicing, traif eating Jew, I'm probably not the best source for details. I'm sure you can look them up on the web.

I've got a distant cousin who is a Rabbi, so I figure that covers the family.

j r wrote:

George R wrote:

teatpuller wrote:they probably don't want anyone else to compete with their ballpark and hillshire farms brands.

Vienna Beef lives!

Vienna Beef products are *NOT* Kosher:

http://www.viennabeef.com/about/faq/#FAQ56

Either are Ballpark or Hillshire Farms. For Kosher, Roumanian is a solid bet.

j r wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:... Even though Vienna products are all beef, ...

If you follow the link I posted, even that statement is not quite true. Some of their products actually use pork (or sheep) casings. That was a surprise to me as well.

There is a lot more to being Kosher than just using all beef, and having a Rabbi bless things. And being a non practicing, traif eating Jew, I'm probably not the best source for details. I'm sure you can look them up on the web.

I've got a distant cousin who is a Rabbi, so I figure that covers the family.

LOL!

Right, as I mentioned in my post, I thought I remembered something about casings and the associated issue that hit the fan last year. Those casings are not pork but they're definitely not beef, either. Ironically, if they were strictly sheep, they'd be kosherable. But mislabeling is a separate issue from Koshering.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

j r wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:... Even though Vienna products are all beef, ...

If you follow the link I posted, even that statement is not quite true. Some of their products actually use pork (or sheep) casings. That was a surprise to me as well.

There is a lot more to being Kosher than just using all beef, and having a Rabbi bless things. And being a non practicing, traif eating Jew, I'm probably not the best source for details. I'm sure you can look them up on the web.

I've got a distant cousin who is a Rabbi, so I figure that covers the family.

LOL!

Right, as I mentioned in my post, I thought I remembered something about casings and the associated issue that hit the fan last year. Those casings are not pork but they're definitely not beef, either. Ironically, if they were strictly sheep, they'd be kosherable. But mislabeling is a separate issue from Koshering.

=R=

Have you ever seen a sheep wearing a yamulke?

Dave148 wrote:Have you ever seen a sheep wearing a yamulke?

No but maybe I go to the wrong shul.

=R=

Dave148 wrote:Have you ever seen a sheep wearing a yamulke?

If they are knit from wool, you'd never notice

I am Catholic too, so the entire contents of my brain on what's kosher will only take up three lines (I did grow up in Highland Park, though; otherwise it wouldn't fill even one line). I thought that, among other things, beef must be from the front half of the cow to qualify as kosher. Is it redundant or inaccurate or amplifying to say that it cannot be from the part of the cow that contains the sciatic nerve? And that removing the sciatic nerve from the carcass does not change the back half's disqualification as kosher-worthy?

That is, of course, not counting all the other rules. Surely someone who keeps kosher can provide better information. Meanwhile, I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher

Some more data from Wiki...

Wiki wrote:Kosher hot dogs may be made from beef, chicken or turkey.

Wiki wrote:Kosher natural casings are difficult to obtain in commercial quantities in the USA, and therefore kosher hot dogs are usually either skinless or made with reconstituted collagen casings.

My Bride loves the Best Kosher Hot Dogs and I am going to try to grab a case tomorrow if they are not sold out.

Katie wrote:I am Catholic too, so the entire contents of my brain on what's kosher will only take up three lines (I did grow up in Highland Park, though; otherwise it wouldn't fill even one line). I thought that, among other things, beef must be from the front half of the cow to qualify as kosher. Is it redundant or inaccurate or amplifying to say that it cannot be from the part of the cow that contains the sciatic nerve? And that removing the sciatic nerve from the carcass does not change the back half's disqualification as kosher-worthy?

That is, of course, not counting all the other rules. Surely someone who keeps kosher can provide better information. Meanwhile, I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher

yes removing the sciatic will allow the rear half of the cow to be kosher - but this a tim consuming process and it is more proitable for the packing houses to sell the rear half to a non kosher packing house - in Israel, because the the production rate is not as high you can get kosher tenderloins and the like -

Panther - if you have not tried romanians' kosher dogs you are missing a true treat - IMHO I have always considered them the best hot dog bar none -

On a tangential note regarding these dogs, Sun Times reports today about Vienna Beef's replacing the Best Kosher at Sox Park:

(Users: Prepare thy pop up blockers!)

http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/food/1475076,CST-NWS-hotdog13.article

If it's true that a hot dog never tasted better than at a baseball game........Then I must further that notion to say that no hot dog ever tasted better at a baseball game than a Best Kosher at Sox Park.

On that note, the latest Costco magazine said that nationwide they were switching to an inhouse-produced brand, instead of the two Kosher varieties that they'd used across the US for years. I'm pretty certain Best was one, and Hebrew National the other. The price also went up by 5 cents locally, to $1.55 for the dog and drink.

JoelF wrote:On that note, the latest Costco magazine said that nationwide they were switching to an inhouse-produced brand, instead of the two Kosher varieties that they'd used across the US for years. I'm pretty certain Best was one, and Hebrew National the other. The price also went up by 5 cents locally, to $1.55 for the dog and drink.

Those sound like the right brands, except that the Clybourn Costco serves Vienna Beef products, probably because they're right next door to the factory.

RR_Rancher wrote:On a tangential note regarding these dogs, Sun Times reports today about Vienna Beef's replacing the Best Kosher at Sox Park:

(Users: Prepare thy pop up blockers!)

http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/food/1475076,CST-NWS-hotdog13.article

If it's true that a hot dog never tasted better than at a baseball game........Then I must further that notion to say that no hot dog ever tasted better at a baseball game than a Best Kosher at Sox Park.

Agree, this is a true loss.

However, the "big" Viennas are about as good of a replacement as one will find.

maybe now we'll get a full chicago-style topping bar too?

JoelF wrote:On that note, the latest Costco magazine said that nationwide they were switching to an inhouse-produced brand

Buck fifty dog and soda deal at Niles Costco yesterday. New Kirkland wiener had the ersatz skin thing going, same as Superdawg, weak imitation of a 'snap' Garlic and cure flavor slightly watered down from Best Kosher or Vienna, juicy but more in a way that an 8% enhanced pork tenderloin is juicy.

Still, in the overall scheme of things, not a bad dog with a schemer of deli mustard to perk up the flavor.

The new Kirkland one isn't a bad dog at all.

You hit the nail on the head with the juicyness though: it's masking a decided lack of meaty flavor.
The dog is also a lot smokier than previous versions (and certainly smokier than most Kosher-style dogs). It's not a bad thing, just different.

At the Randhurst Costco, the price came back down to $1.50 after the switch.

The hotdog of my childhood, Hebrew National, may not be Kosher after all...

Yahoo News wrote:The lawsuit alleges that meat processing services provided to ConAgra by privately held AER Services Inc fell short of the standards necessary to label Hebrew National products as kosher. As a result, they said, ConAgra misled consumers and was able to charge premium prices.

-Dan

dansch wrote:The hotdog of my childhood, Hebrew National, may not be Kosher after all...

Yahoo News wrote:The lawsuit alleges that meat processing services provided to ConAgra by privately held AER Services Inc fell short of the standards necessary to label Hebrew National products as kosher. As a result, they said, ConAgra misled consumers and was able to charge premium prices.

-Dan

I can see where this can be a huge issue to Jews. Not being Jewish, I just care that they're good, which they are. But I guess when you have "Hebrew" in your name, you shouldn't drop the ball.

I do like the flavor of Hebrew Nationals, too, but I've never seen one in a natural casing, which makes me opt for other brands. Natural casings are considered trayf, correct?

Binko wrote:I do like the flavor of Hebrew Nationals, too, but I've never seen one in a natural casing, which makes me opt for other brands. Natural casings are considered trayf, correct?

There are Kosher natural casings but as is true for all things Kosher, they're appreciably more expensive.

spinynorman99 wrote:
There are Kosher natural casings but as is true for all things Kosher, they're appreciably more expensive.

Where might one find those? Even the venerable Romanian kosher hot dogs are not in a casing.

Glatt kosher natural casings are available. I don't know who's using them. Roumanian tried them experimentally, but they shredded in their machinery, and they weren't convinced there was enough market to keep trying.

I have not seen natural-casing kosher hot dogs, but sometimes you see kishke in natural beef casings.

spinynorman99 wrote:

Binko wrote:I do like the flavor of Hebrew Nationals, too, but I've never seen one in a natural casing, which makes me opt for other brands. Natural casings are considered trayf, correct?

There are Kosher natural casings but as is true for all things Kosher, they're appreciably more expensive.

OK, I'm really confused about this. I find some sources that say sheep casings can be kosher. I find other sources that say no intestinal casing of any sort can be kosher, as intestines are trayf, regardless of whether the animal was kosher. For example: this article in the NYT ("A kosher hot dog is all beef and made under rabbinical supervision. It is skinless or stuffed into collagen casings, because natural casings are not permitted.") and here. ("The kosher rabbis in their inimitable wisdom decided some years ago that natural sheep casings are not kosher, so there is no such thing as a natural casing kosher hot dog.")

However, neither of these is coming from the mouths of rabbis. Just to sate my own curiosity, which is correct?

Binko wrote:

spinynorman99 wrote:

Binko wrote:I do like the flavor of Hebrew Nationals, too, but I've never seen one in a natural casing, which makes me opt for other brands. Natural casings are considered trayf, correct?

There are Kosher natural casings but as is true for all things Kosher, they're appreciably more expensive.

OK, I'm really confused about this. I find some sources that say sheep casings can be kosher. I find other sources that say no intestinal casing of any sort can be kosher, as intestines are trayf, regardless of whether the animal was kosher. For example: this article in the NYT ("A kosher hot dog is all beef and made under rabbinical supervision. It is skinless or stuffed into collagen casings, because natural casings are not permitted.") and here. ("The kosher rabbis in their inimitable wisdom decided some years ago that natural sheep casings are not kosher, so there is no such thing as a natural casing kosher hot dog.")
However, neither of these is coming from the mouths of rabbis. Just to sate my own curiosity, which is correct?

Ok, I am definitely not an expert on this subject, but I did some research a while back, partially because I too was confused by this article. As it turns out, Binko and I were not the only ones. Others have pointed out that the author was mistaken. Intestines from properly slaughtered and porged animals can be glatt if they are kashered within 3 days of the animal's slaughter. Obviously, this is very costly and time consuming.

What the author may have been confused about is an ongoing dispute over the use of reconstituted collagen skins from non-kosher animals. 10 years ago a ruling by a Sephardi Chief Rabbi stated that "the chemical processes that the animal skins undergo constitutes a sufficient change in form to nullify the previous substance, even if the animal was not slaughtered according to kashrut laws." Recently, Safed Chief Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, who is also part of the 16-member Chief Rabbinate Council, stirred up controversey when he said that Israeli hot dog makers were using non-kosher reconstituted collagen casings that included collagen sourced from swine. Understandably this has generated a huge bruhaha, and several lawsuits. It is the opinion of some Rabbis on the Council that because it is possible to manufacture undisputed kosher casings from truly kosher animals that the previous ruling was incorrect, and that collagen casings from the world's largest manufacturers are not kosher, although the hotdogs themselves are made under kashrut supervision. Regardless, the imported casings were never properly approved by The Chief Rabbinate’s Import Division. Needless to say, the outcome of this debate will have far-reaching implications in the world of kosher franks and other sausages.

As I said, I do not presume to be any kind of authority on this subject, but I do find the story fascinating. If I have misused terminology, please excuse my ignorance.

stevez wrote:Also, Costco stopped serving Vienna hot dogs and polishes years ago. Those are now Kirkland products and have been for quite some time. I suppose the Clybourn store may be a outlier, being so close to the Vienna factory and all. I don't normally go to that Costco, so I don't know for sure.

Chicago area ones previously had Best's Kosher (wait, is that right?), not Vienna. I believe it carries by region.

JoelF wrote:Chicago area ones previously had Best's Kosher (wait, is that right?), not Vienna. I believe it carries by region.

But isn't Best's Kosher owned by Vienna?

stevez wrote:

JoelF wrote:Chicago area ones previously had Best's Kosher (wait, is that right?), not Vienna. I believe it carries by region.

But isn't Best's Kosher owned by Vienna?

No. Sara Lee owned them until they discontinued their products. I've never bought a Sara Lee product since.

stevez wrote:

JoelF wrote:Chicago area ones previously had Best's Kosher (wait, is that right?), not Vienna. I believe it carries by region.

But isn't Best's Kosher owned by Vienna?

(I see Artie already made the same point while I was checking dates but I thought I might as well go ahead and post this.) David Berg is now owned by Vienna Beef, but I don't think Best Kosher ever was. Best Kosher was owned by Sara Lee from 1993 until the brand was terminated in 2009. As far as I'm aware the name hasn't been sold.

Rene G wrote:(I see Artie already made the same point while I was checking dates but I thought I might as well go ahead and post this.) David Berg is now owned by Vienna Beef, but I don't think Best Kosher ever was. Best Kosher was owned by Sara Lee from 1993 until the brand was terminated in 2009. As far as I'm aware the name hasn't been sold.

What infuriates me and why I'll never buy a product of theirs again is that Sara Lee,AFAIK,never even looked for a potential suitor for Best.

Artie wrote:What infuriates me and why I'll never buy a product of theirs again is that Sara Lee,AFAIK,never even looked for a potential suitor for Best.

I think that's correct. Sara Lee actually doesn't exist any longer, having split in 2012 into D.E Master Blenders 1753, an international beverage company best known for Douwe Egberts Coffee, and Hillshire Brands, a huge Chicago-based food company that's now a subsidiary of Tyson Foods. Hillshire Brands still sells frozen Sara Lee baked goods as well as many other well-known brands (if you want to avoid anything Sara Lee-related you'll have to do some research). A few months ago Hillshire applied to renew the Best's Kosher trademark so one has to wonder what the maker of Ball Park franks might have in mind.

Rene G wrote: A few months ago Hillshire applied to renew the Best's Kosher trademark so one has to wonder what the maker of Ball Park franks might have in mind.

Do you know if there's been any activity at their old factory 1000 W. Pershing, or has it sat empty since they folded? I'll try and drive by next time I'm near there.