Ugh, you people and your talk & speculations & whatnot. What do you do for a living, & is it discussed ad nauseum on a chatsite by total strangers? Stick to "reviewing" food please, not peoples' careers. Have some decency, please. Silly.

rima wrote:Stick to "reviewing" food please, not peoples' careers.

This is a "culinary chat site," rima. Which means anything food-related. And the departure of the head chef of one of only two three-starred Michelin restaurants the day after the award is announced is... you know... kind of relevant to the local food scene.

If all you're looking for is a place where people drop "reviews" and leave without any actual discussion, I think you meant to go here.

Dmnkly wrote:

rima wrote:Stick to "reviewing" food please, not peoples' careers.

This is a "culinary chat site," rima. Which means anything food-related. And the departure of the head chef of one of only two three-starred Michelin restaurants the day after the award is announced is... you know... kind of relevant to the local food scene.

If all you're looking for is a place where people drop "reviews" and leave without any actual discussion, I think you meant to go here.

We are aware of yelp too, and there's a fine line between you & them, as much as you hate to think so. Thing is, we (restaurant workers, if you will) got along fine before the armchair quarterbacking atmosphere of the internet. "Relevant" or not, it's none of your beeswax. When you leave/lose your job let me know if you want it discussed by a bunch of strangers on a chatboard or whatever this is called. Think about it.

rima wrote:We are aware of yelp too, and there's a fine line between you & them, as much as you hate to think so. Thing is, we (restaurant workers, if you will) got along fine before the armchair quarterbacking atmosphere of the internet. "Relevant" or not, it's none of your beeswax. When you leave/lose your job let me know if you want it discussed by a bunch of strangers on a chatboard or whatever this is called. Think about it.

If your intention is to suggest that I can dish it but have no idea what it's like to take it, boy, did you pick the wrong time to let that hypothetical fly.

rima wrote:What do you do for a living, & is it discussed ad nauseum on a chatsite by total strangers?

Actually, I do voiceover for video games, and as a matter of fact, yes, it IS discussed ad nauseum on many chatsites by a great many total strangers. I'm the main character of a long-running series that's been successful and popular enough to still be adding sequels more than twenty years after the original. As such, my professional work (and, not infrequently, my personal life) is routinely praised, panned, discussed, dissected and otherwise overanalyzed on the internet by a rather large crowd of video game fans that are on average, I assure you, significantly more probing and critical than the group here. So, since your hypothetical isn't as hypothetical as you thought, I'm happy let you know what I think about being on the other side:

I don't see the big deal.

When you're in a high profile position, people want to know who you are, what you're up to, what you're going to be working on next, how your current projects are going, etc. It comes with the territory when you do work that interests people. And rather than acting all haughty that somebody might actually be curious about the work I do, I'm flattered that people are interested enough in my work to care.

What I don't do is lash out at those who would discuss my work, walk into their world and treat them with disdain and condescension, act as though nobody has the right to have an opinion about or an interest in what I do, or forget for a moment that the reason people discuss it because they care about it and that I should appreciate that.

Bottom line is, I'm a big boy who can handle criticism when I think it's fair, dismiss it when I think it isn't, defend myself if I feel the need to and generally live my life and do my work the way I want regardless of what people may or may not be saying about me on the internet. I hope the same is true of Chef Gras. Particularly because I really like what he does, and I'd be disappointed to learn that he's as defensive and condescending towards those who are interested in his line of work as you seem to be.

Santander wrote: Rich Melman suggesting someone needs to become a "better-quality human being" is like...

I know it sounds weird coming from Melman, but he wasn't making things up. Gras did have serious communication/management issues. The FOH is particularly mismanaged - L2O constantly has ads on Craigslist for help because they can't keep staff, and because they are simply not doing enough business. Melman's had to lay down the law before, one example being with Rick Tramonto. When Tramonto first opened Tru, he was contractually obliged to be in the restaurant a certain number of hours a week and to behave a certain way to underlings because of the way he had worked at Brasserie T. It's not exactly news that chefs range from dismissive to abusive to their staff. It's just rare that owners actually step in and do something.

Psaltis is a nightmare. Draw your own conclusions about the future of L2O.

According to this morning's Trib, Gras has made his departure permanent and official.

rima wrote:Thing is, we (restaurant workers, if you will) got along fine before the armchair quarterbacking atmosphere of the internet.

That's great...how did your diners do? Forums like this one serve a purpose for the dining community. I'd kindly suggest that if you don't see the purpose, it's not for you.

rima wrote:
Thing is, we (restaurant workers, if you will) got along fine before the armchair quarterbacking atmosphere of the internet.

ooh, that's rich. as someone who's worked more than 20 years in restaurants, I can safely say that there's always been personality conflicts and drama in the industry. it's just reaching a wider audience now. to try and blame it on food discussions on the internet is ridiculous.

Santander wrote:Rich Melman suggesting someone needs to become a "better-quality human being" is like...

What is the basis for this comment? Yes, Melman heads up a huge restaurant group, and as a successful businessperson, is bound to step on some people's toes, but I know people who work for LEYE have a lot of respect for him.

aschie30 wrote:

Santander wrote:Rich Melman suggesting someone needs to become a "better-quality human being" is like...

What is the basis for this comment? Yes, Melman heads up a huge restaurant group, and as a successful businessperson, is bound to step on some people's toes, but I know people who work for LEYE have a lot of respect for him.

Secondhand reports from former-employee friends, which is why I didn't complete the analogy, but it still does come on stronger than I intended. In any case, questioning that status of anyone else's humanity is the very definition of ad hominem posturing, especially since I find Gras's original comments to be fairly diplomatic. Edit: here is a more likeably circumspect Melman; anyone can have a bad day.

My experiences as a diner suggest that Melman succeeds by starting ambitiously and then dumbing down as time progresses; it's a model I've never enjoyed, and is wearying as a primarily suburban diner and friend of some dreamers in the business, as many jobs as he does admittedly provide. It's business with a diminishing passion paradigm, and I prefer establishments that save the best wine for last.

Santander wrote:My experiences as a diner suggest that Melman succeeds by starting ambitiously and then dumbing down as time progresses . . .

I generally agree with your statement when it comes to most of the Lettuce restaurants, but I've never seen a similar "dumbing down" at Tru or Everest.

Right on Dom

It goes to show that "one of the best restaurants" in Chicago is ran by individuals that can have personal differences and spats like any other establishment and have an audience for it in a food chat room, the other establishment though usually have to take their gossiping to a local bar, since they don't have a star status, or even to Yelp, God forbid, a food chat room for the commoners.
I think any restaurant drama is anybodies fodder and LTH forum is the place discuss it, after all we are the authority when it comes to these matters.

aschie30 wrote:

Ursiform wrote:From The Stew, ouch

Rich Melman to The Stew wrote:"And there were issues with how he treated the front-of-the-house people; he was dismissive and not interested," Melman said. "And I told him, 'I want you to be much more open about these things.' I had a customer call me, upset, because he'd made a special request, and nothing outrageous, and he (Gras) refused."

Uh oh. Anyone else wondering if Melman is referring to this incident?

Oh man, how did I ever miss that thread? Maybe I was on "Survivor" and didn't know it? That is some terrific reading!

I'm going to L20 this Friday to celebrate something big between my mom and brother. Obvious to say, we have had reservations for a while, so it will be interesting to see how the restaurant operates and the food tastes this week. I've never been to L20 so I won't be able to compare a previous experience of when Gras when present but I will report back.

Telling a master chef that you are going to bring somebody in to show him how to prepare shabu shabu is deliberately insulting. Who did Rich have in mind, the waitress from Ron of Japan?

Mikey wrote:Telling a master chef that you are going to bring somebody in to show him how to prepare shabu shabu is deliberately insulting. Who did Rich have in mind, the waitress from Ron of Japan?

It sounds like one of the changes that has been made is to have the dish include more than just hamachi. This seems like a good change to me. Even "master chefs" should be open to constructive criticism.

jesteinf wrote:

Mikey wrote:Telling a master chef that you are going to bring somebody in to show him how to prepare shabu shabu is deliberately insulting. Who did Rich have in mind, the waitress from Ron of Japan?

It sounds like one of the changes that has been made is to have the dish include more than just hamachi. This seems like a good change to me. Even "master chefs" should be open to constructive criticism.

I agree, but you can ask him to do that. Rich wanted to bring somebody in to teach him how to prepare it.

Mikey wrote:

jesteinf wrote:

Mikey wrote:Telling a master chef that you are going to bring somebody in to show him how to prepare shabu shabu is deliberately insulting. Who did Rich have in mind, the waitress from Ron of Japan?

It sounds like one of the changes that has been made is to have the dish include more than just hamachi. This seems like a good change to me. Even "master chefs" should be open to constructive criticism.

I agree, but you can ask him to do that. Rich wanted to bring somebody in to teach him how to prepare it.

Ah, the joys of mitigation.

If they were a truly harmonious team, this type of input from the owner probably wouldn't have ruffled feathers.

To Josh's point, I've seen plenty of bad-ass chefs learn new skills from other chefs. It happens all the time.

=R=

Shaggywillis wrote:I'm going to L20 this Friday to celebrate something big between my mom and brother. Obvious to say, we have had reservations for a while, so it will be interesting to see how the restaurant operates and the food tastes this week. I've never been to L20 so I won't be able to compare a previous experience of when Gras when present but I will report back.

I had a fabulous meal 2 days after chef Gras announced what was then termed a temporary leave. Food was excellent, service was great, the sommelier made fantastic by-the-glass pairing choices for the 4 course, and everyone truly enjoyed the meal.

I would highly recommend the snapper with deconstructed Thai curry if it's on the menu. It sounded too busy to me, but everyone else at the table got it at the server's recommendation and it was terrific. Crystallized curry powder, coconut rice emulsion, and cliantro macarons. It all worked very well together.

In any business the person who signs the checks gets the last word. I know several NYT 4 star chefs and they take orders from the owners regardless of their skills and talent.

Mikey wrote:

jesteinf wrote:

Mikey wrote:Telling a master chef that you are going to bring somebody in to show him how to prepare shabu shabu is deliberately insulting. Who did Rich have in mind, the waitress from Ron of Japan?

It sounds like one of the changes that has been made is to have the dish include more than just hamachi. This seems like a good change to me. Even "master chefs" should be open to constructive criticism.

I agree, but you can ask him to do that. Rich wanted to bring somebody in to teach him how to prepare it.

Would it have been better for Rich to go into the kitchen and show him himself? Or send an email with a recipe?

I've seen plenty of bad-ass chefs learn new skills from other chefs. It happens all the time.

Not saying I'm a bad ass chef but just last yr, a real bad ass chef friend of mine showed me a trick to use when making beurre blanc, something I've been doing nearly 3 decades.

Let me start off by saying I had very high expectations of L20 prior to going. It was just awarded 3 Michelin stars, at the very least I should be getting a meal that is unforgettable.

My mother, brother and I went on Friday evening and we had the Prix Fix menu. Walking into L20, my first opinion was that the space needed some work. It's an all cream interior with no artwork on the walls and gold light babbles hanging from the ceiling over certain tables. It reminded me of a very boring 80's restaurant. Maybe that is the point, let the food shine through, but the dimmed quiet space was I guess not what I expected. We were seated in the back and had a nice view of the entire bottom dining area. I started with the sashimi which consisted of fluke, kampachi and hamachi. It was good, but I've had a lot better at sushi restaurants in NY when I lived there and nothing fancy either. The fish didn't really have too much of a taste, other then the middle piece which I think was kampachi, which had salt and claviar served on top. For my warm dish I got the scallops with cauliflower and passion fruit which I thought was good, I'm a sucker for passion fruit ever since I went to Maui this past summer so the words just sprung out to me and I couldn't resist. My mom ordered the lobster bisque which I wish I would of ordered, I had a lot of food envy at this moment and my brother got the foie which I thought was pretty mushy and could of been seared a little more on the outside. For my main I ordered the Lobster with Pinot Noir sauce and butternut squash. This was very good. The sauce was good enough to sop up with my spoon, which I did after I finished the lobster and the butternut squash was so creamy and sweet, it was really good. For dessert I ordered the chocolate surprise as I'm a sucker for dark chocolate and this was amazing as well. It was a two inch chocolate box filled with cocoa nibs, salted caramel and some type of almond preparation. Hands down, the chocolate surprise was the best dish I had of the night.

Was it worth the price, no. Was that meal something I will remember always, no. Would I go again, probably not unless someone wants to take me. It was a real let down from reading all the great reviews for the past years on here. Neither my brother or I were full after the meal, I wanted to eat something else afterward but did not. There were also a lot of dinners there talking on their cell phones, taking photos of the food and their faces with their cell phones. I found it to be a little much but that is a comment against people these days, not the restaurant.

Shaggywillis wrote:For my main I ordered the Lobster with Pinot Noir sauce and butternut squash. This was very good. The sauce was good enough to sop up with my spoon, which I did after I finished the lobster and the butternut squash was so creamy and sweet, it was really good.

I also ordered this entree but you enjoyed it more than I did. While there was a pinot noir reduction on the plate, the primary sauce was foie gras-based. I found the butter-poached lobster and foie sauce too rich, without enough acid or pinot counterpoint, at least for my tastes. With the roasted squash, there was also a lack of texture on the plate.

I much preferred the bit of the snapper with deconstructed Thai curry that I mentioned above.

I'm glad you enjoyed the dish, though. Your comments just recalled my experience, so I thought I would throw out my impression as well.

We went to L2O last night for the first time AG (after Gras) and I don't think the place has lost a step.

As usual, all fish were pristine, the service was just about flawless, and the souffles are still pretty close to perfect.

Amuses were a shibumi oyster with red pepper and a grilled razor clam served with drawn butter. A great way to start the meal.

I started with smoked salmon. The salmon had been cold smoked, rubbed with earl grey, and sliced into tiny triangles. The salmon was served with trout roe, and little dollops of "smoked gelee". Circles of wonderful toasted brioche were served alongside the salmon with a pot of creme fraiche. Everything worked wonderfully together. The brioche was absolutely fantastic, and was made even better was a generous slather of L2O's house butter.

For my warm course I had the hand cut tagliolini which was served in a lobster emulsion. The delicate pasta was studded was good sized pieces of uni and a nice amount of oscietra caviar. This was a rich and wonderful dish, with the uni imparting that "taste of the sea" that only good uni can provide.

My main course was the butter poached lobster, which was served in a sauce studded with foie gras and truffles. There were also three preparations of butternut squash on the plate. This was a pretty rich dish, but the portion size kept it from being overwhelming.

Pre-dessert was a frozen passion fruit marshmallow, which was perfectly tart and an ideal palette cleanser. I had a praline souffle for dessert and it was as good as its been every time I've had it.

I will also note that bacon bread has found its way back into the rotation of L2O's bread service. A "knob" of this bread with L2O's house butter is one of the best bites you can have in Chicago and truly defines gilding the lily.

It had been about 6 months since my last visit to L2O and this was probably my 5th time eating there overall. If you hadn't told me Laurent Gras was no longer involved, I never would have guessed.

Glad to hear that L.2O is still tight. Will have to make it there soon. Thanks for the update.

Is the menu format still the same, and what was the mignardise?

yellow truffle wrote:Glad to hear that L.2O is still tight. Will have to make it there soon. Thanks for the update.

Is the menu format still the same, and what was the mignardise?

Yeah, still pretty much the same. 4 course, tasting, and luxury tasting. There were two add-ons (caviar service and a wagyu dish).

Mignardise was a raspberry marshmallow and a vanilla truffle. Unfortunately no canelle.

I made a new friend last night, one that I suspect will be a friend for a long time.

I'm speaking of the restaurant, L20.

Last night, my partner, Craig, as well as a friend (Barry) dined at L20--Chicago's 3 Michelin star restaurant, which for a while had been wobbling in the wake of the departure of Chef Laurent Gras. It was no secret that I am no fan of Gras' style, personality or his cooking. Readers here will recall my now infamous post about my meal at L20 a couple of years back which I found sorely disappointing.

With new chefs, last night's dinner was the best meal I have had in Chicago. Bar none. And IMHO it is certainly at a level to compete successfully at the New York Times **** level. It deserves its Michelin *** under the new team.

First, as has always been the case, of course, the room is beautiful and sedate and slightly reminiscent of the dining room of Le Bernardin in NYC--modern, somewhat nondescript, in the background. The front of the house staff were everything they should be--attentive, prompt, engaging when we hoped they would be, in the background when we were talking amongst ourselves. I had remarked that we were seated at the same table as I had been on a previous, far less fortunate visit a year or two ago (which I wrote about online in a now somewhat infamous post) and as I was telling Barry and Craig the story, the service manager came by and I mentioned it to him. "I was here that night" he pointed out, acknowledging but smiling with no hint of disapproval or animus. Instead, he seemed relaxed. The mere fact he felt free to acknowledge that reveals a new aspect of L20 not present before--the staff is having a good time. They are friendly and relaxed. Professional but enjoying themselves, and it rubs off on the guests.

In the kitchen is chef de cuisine Matt Kirkley--an alumnus of Ria, and before that Robuchon Las Vegas (The Mansion) and The Fat Duck in London. His sous chef is Nick (I am getting Nick's last name) who is also a strong presence--he is an alumnus of Eleven Madison Park among others. These two are fearless and creative. They have enormous, enormous talent and creativity. At the end of the dinner, I thought to myself "What a find these guys are--somebody knew what they were doing when they found them." There is enough creativity in that large kitchen to produce genius. (What a change from before, when guests were not allowed in the kitchen and the FOH staff was not allowed to speak to the chef.)

I have asked for a menu from our tasting menu and will post that once I receive it from the restaurant. But we put ourselves in their more than capable hands. Here is what we had:




So visually stunning and equally stunning in taste! It was an Hawaiian Big Eye Tuna Tartare set with tomato water and on the other side, thinly sliced avocado and caviar. What a way to start! I absolutely loved this dish. Probably my favorite of the night. The flavors and texture were absolutely--there's that word again--stunning.

Next up was English peas in a risotto style with truffle butter and lavender on top. The peas were bursting with flavor and cooked al dente. The combination with the foam and truffle butter was great.



Next, a french server came along with a pastry disk--who knew what it was or what was inside? He showed it to me, then on the side, removed the pastry coating and there was the shell of a scallop, still attached at the bottom. It was cooked perfectly--as I like to say, flirting with being underdone but just perfectly cooked. On top--black truffle disks.



A server next came with three beautiful whole fish on a silver platter of ice, to show us the 3 kinds of fish they were using in the bouillabaisse--dorade and two others (I will post the names when the menu is sent).



I love lamb, and the kitchen next sent out a beautiful Colorado lamb saddle with zucchini blossom and zucchini basket. The zucchini was carefully and meticulously woven. I asked how long it took the cook to do one--they said about 15 minutes per weave. Wow!



The lamb was cooked perfectly--so much so I asked if it was cooked sous vide then finished on the stove but they said no, it was roasted. So flavorful--just bursting of lamb flavor and tenderness.

To finish the meat courses was an A11 grade wagyu from Australia. Grade A12 is the highest level and it is not exported. They told me they thought they might be the only restaurant (at least in Chicago) importing the grade A11. It was so marbled it was almost like eating a foie gras.



The restaurant has a new pastry chef--Stephanie Pride who had been at Michelin ** Ria. Ria's loss is L20's gain. Craig had an incredible chocolate egg filled with frozen caramel mousse with 64% cocoa chocolate as I recall. It looked stunning.

Barry and I had a cheese course (5 cheese choices). By then, it was 4+ hours and time to wind down. We had about a 20 minute tour of the kitchen by sous chef Nick, met many of the very friendly staff, and saw the huge space they have to work in with all the equipment.



To give you an idea of how creative and relaxed the chefs and cooks are, they made a special menu for Craig, who does not like seafood but agreed to go with us to the restaurant so we could try it out. One of his dishes was a beautiful duck dish with chanterelle mushrooms and a lovely broth. It looked so good. During the kitchen tour, Nick asked Craig "How did you like the duck?" "It was terrific" Craig said. "We came up with that on the fly" Nick confessed. So creative!!! These guys are having fun and its infectious in the spirit of the cuisine.

This is the best restaurant in Chicago.

That sounds wonderful, DutchMuse, and as one who liberally made merry with the original set of reviews (which were awesome), my thanks again for your good humor, and for detailing this positive new experience.

Here are two links on how to incorporate photos - seems like most of us upload to Flickr and copy their pre-made BBcode into our posts these days.

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viewtopic.php?f=22&t=357%20url