David Hammond wrote:I was surprised that this type of cheap street eat -- to my mind Depression-era, urban chow -- is being served anywhere outside city limits.

I see it at beef stands throughout the suburbs, and if they don't have it listed on the menu, they'll certainly make it on request without blinking.

JeanneBean wrote:So we get there and I order a beef and a combo and an Italian Ice. Let me state that I LOVE Italian ice. Even when it is not that good I like it. This tasted like cloves. Yuck. My kids disliked it as well.
.....onto the beef. I brought a special cooler to keep them warm and they were still hot when I got to the house. So hubby was getting the kids their dinner while made up our plates. I cried "Oh no they gave us hot dogs instead of beefs!" Only to open them in horror and see that these were the beefs. Smallest, chaunciest beef sandwiches I have EVER seen in my life!!!

So we split them so we can try each. I started with the beef. It had a good flavor but it was gone in 2 bites!!!

The combo was strange tasting. I swear that was not Italian sausage but a hot link. It had that same sawdust consistency.

I have never been to the one in Elmwood Park so I can only judge this location. If you are a petite flower who wants to require another meal an hour after eating this one then give this place a try.

I think you must have entered an alternate universe.

I had carryout from Johnnie's in Arlington Heights yesterday. Italian lemonade tasted like lemons, with some lemon oil flavor. Combo was the same size as the ones I get at Al's on Taylor Street. Sausage was juicy and tasted of fennel. It was the same as it always is, and as far as I can recall, the same as the last one I had at Johnnie's in Elmwood Park.

LAZ wrote:I think you must have entered an alternate universe.

I had carryout from Johnnie's in Arlington Heights yesterday. Italian lemonade tasted like lemons, with some lemon oil flavor. Combo was the same size as the ones I get at Al's on Taylor Street. Sausage was juicy and tasted of fennel. It was the same as it always is, and as far as I can recall, the same as the last one I had at Johnnie's in Elmwood Park.

Thanks for corroborating my last couple of experiences at the Arlington Heights Johnnie's, LAZ; after that last report, I wasn't sure how to respond. Johnnie's Beef & Italian Ice -- both locations -- have got some of my favorite ices (whether lemonade, banana, or whatever's in stock), even with the simple lemonade with real chunks o' lemon. As for the beef, they've definitely served up my favorite Italian beefs -- even over Al's on Taylor Street -- though I find the typical breads both Johnnie's and Al's use are a bit smaller than those of some of their competitors, so I might agree to a lesser extent on the standard portion sizes. Glad you liked the flavor of the beef, though, Jeanne! Combos are not my usual order, so I won't comment there. I'll just say that you gotta go with dipped.

Every place I order a combo from is always so large that I pick pieces of the beef off before I actually eat it as a sandwich. Every place except Johnnies. Their sandwiches aren't overfilled with beef and the bread is not only short but not very big around. It's the only place I order from that I don't feel stuffed after eating a combo. To get a comparable sized sandwich to what I get every other place I'd have to order a combo and a regular beef.

Yes, the beef is good. The sausage is good. As a combo it's a great sandwich. But it's small compared to what you get everywhere else.

When I go to Johnnie's, it's a combo, dipped, no peppers or giard. I think the sandwiches at Johnnie's ARE undersized compared to many other places, but that's not necessarily a bad thing...maybe it's "right-sized". You know, sometimes you can get too much of a good thing! A combo, fries and lemon ice are just about perfect. I think Johnnie's is the best I've had among probably 40-50 places.

I will say that at some places, when you order a combo, you get cheated on the "beef". It has not been my experience at Johnnie's but one place I have noticed it at is Portillo's. Portillo's prices are a bit high to start with but I can live with that (and here in CA they are about 20% higher than in Chicago area)...they've got more overhead and a nicer envoronment than many typical beef stands. They lose points with me from their otherwise very good sandwich (so I like a chain place...shoot me) by using too little beef in the combo.

Well, it's been so long since I ordered a beef anywhere except Johnnie's or Al's, that I probably can't compare them to other beefs.

Those are my two favorites, and I guess I'd vote for quality over quantity, if that's the choice.

Next time I get one, I'll try to remember to take a photo with something for scale in the picture.

LAZ wrote:

JeanneBean wrote:So we get there and I order a beef and a combo and an Italian Ice. Let me state that I LOVE Italian ice. Even when it is not that good I like it. This tasted like cloves. Yuck. My kids disliked it as well.
.....onto the beef. I brought a special cooler to keep them warm and they were still hot when I got to the house. So hubby was getting the kids their dinner while made up our plates. I cried "Oh no they gave us hot dogs instead of beefs!" Only to open them in horror and see that these were the beefs. Smallest, chaunciest beef sandwiches I have EVER seen in my life!!!

So we split them so we can try each. I started with the beef. It had a good flavor but it was gone in 2 bites!!!

The combo was strange tasting. I swear that was not Italian sausage but a hot link. It had that same sawdust consistency.

I have never been to the one in Elmwood Park so I can only judge this location. If you are a petite flower who wants to require another meal an hour after eating this one then give this place a try.

I think you must have entered an alternate universe.

I had carryout from Johnnie's in Arlington Heights yesterday. Italian lemonade tasted like lemons, with some lemon oil flavor. Combo was the same size as the ones I get at Al's on Taylor Street. Sausage was juicy and tasted of fennel. It was the same as it always is, and as far as I can recall, the same as the last one I had at Johnnie's in Elmwood Park.

OK....well since you weren't there the day that I was, can you verify that the Italian lemonade tasted normal? Sorry, it tasted funky to me. If you read my post you will see that I never said the beef tasted bad. It was just a serious chaunce. You should not be able to close the bread completely around the beef!
I have never been on Al's on Taylor street so I can't compare.
I think when if you were to describe a Chicago Italian beef to someone from an alternate universe I can almost guarantee that somewhere in the description would be the dense size of it. So when people say "Oh maybe a tiny beef is really better....really....who is from an alternative universe now?

Ok and I see that the person who wrote about the "less is more" beef is from California. That explains that craziness!

"Sure, the beef was terrible, but at least it was enormous!"

Ok and I see that the person who wrote about the "less is more" beef is from California. That explains that craziness!

Hey, if you ever see me you'll know that I consume WAY too much...even though I have lost 40 lbs from my high, I want to lose another 50 and really should lose more. The closest good Chicago-style pizza place is 25 miles away (hey, we are lucky to have some good places) and italian beef/combos are 15 miles, so even with the gas prices, we make the drive! Heck, we've even got 2 Potillo's here now (35 and 60 miles away, though)

So, my comment was justification...I won't give up some of the great foods I love, but if I eat them less often and maybe even a slightly smaller portion it certainly won't hurt me!

First off let me state that Johnnie's is one of my favorite beefs and is always good...but yes I too find that they are by far the puniest of all beef sandwich's. In my opinion an IB is supposed to be big to the point where you get to pick out some of the beef and let it melt on your tongue. I too would also love to order a combo from there since they have great sausage cooked over open coals but that if it was actually a combo (BEEF & sausage). Not at Johnnie's, they love to put as little as possible on it to the point where some bites are actually just a Italian sausage sandwich and not a combo, so I never order it. Also I never found the lemonade to be great at Johnnie's but I get one half the time.

Im not kidding about as little as possible either, I have seen them take beef off of a combo b/c there was "too much". Nevertheless I still love the beef and thats when you know it's good, when you still constantly go despite any complaints you may have. In fact I was just there about 24 hours ago before I went to the hala kahiki.


Johnnies beef with hot from last night

I solve this problem by ordering a beef, dipped, hot, and a sausage, dry, hot.

If you want, you can make your own combo and get the sausage dipped and have some gravy bread. Whatever works.

Id rather have a small great beef than a huge average one. But, then, I think the overstuffed beefs like at Tore's, etc, are pretty disgusting. The beef to bread ratio is way too high.

Ya you could do that, and you would still have a small combo for $8-$9...which I would still order b/c I love it. I just dont find myself driving out of the way to go to Johnnies anymore unless I want a beef after 11p. Lil' Joe's, Boston's, Jay's, Patio, Pop's and chickies all give you beef for you buck and it still tastes good. In the end I usually end up going to whatever one is closest to me. I wish Johnnie would just raise the price and make the sandwich bigger so I didnt have to get two on days I was hungry.

$8-9? My memory is it's more like $7, but I guess I could be wrong. A Tore's combo will run you about the same, and it won't taste nearly as good. But it'll be bigger, so I guess there's that. And there's the free fries and drink. Yum-o.

Shrug. I'm so used to $10 wicker park lunches that I'm not very price sensitive below that point for a quick lunch, so I'm probably the wrong person to be having this debate.

gleam wrote:Id rather have a small great beef than a huge average one. But, then, I think the overstuffed beefs like at Tore's, etc, are pretty disgusting. The beef to bread ratio is way too high.

This is a great point, Ed, and I'm totally with you. It's not just a question of generosity and value. With the understanding that it's a matter of personal preference, there is such a thing as too much beef, simply from a beef/bread balance standpoint. I do like Tore's quite a bit (certainly not as much as I like Johnnie's), but I usually pull a little off their sandwiches. Jay's is one of the worst offenders in this arena, as I remember. It's not a sandwich. It's just a pile of meat. And I'd rather have a better beef at half the size.

I'm kind of baffled that Da Beef's image above is, unless I misunderstand, being offered as evidence of stinginess. Looks like the perfect balance to me. I wouldn't want more meat on that sandwich. And anybody who knows me knows it certainly isn't because I don't pull my weight when it comes to pure volume

Dmnkly wrote:There is such a thing as too much beef, simply from a beef/bread balance standpoint, IMHO. I do like Tore's quite a bit, but I usually pull a little off their sandwiches. Jay's is one of the worst offenders in this arena, as I remember. It's not a sandwich. It's just a pile of meat. And I'd rather have a better beef at half the size.

and there IS such a thing as not enough, my first few bites shouldnt be gravy bread. Also I quite like jay's (Montrose & Narragansett) even if its fallen a little, it was my favorite growing up and yes they give you some beef you need to pick some off and taste it solo..whats so bad about that? I like to wrap a slice of beef around a fry with some peppers in between. Tore's isnt bad either and no neither are better than Johnnies but I live in LP and im not wasting the gas to go get a taste size portion, if I wanna waste gas for a good beef Ill go to Pop's. At least Al's has the small beef but also the option of a big beef. Ya close to $8-$9 for a beef, sausage and drink or ice. Johnnie's is one of the best in a city full of beef, but y'all make it seem like every other place sucks saying you would rather have a small good beef from Johnnies than a bad big one. Johhnies has by far the smallest beef and every other place I have been serves a bigger portion, so are all the rest out there bad?

edited for spelling.

Da Beef wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:There is such a thing as too much beef, simply from a beef/bread balance standpoint, IMHO. I do like Tore's quite a bit, but I usually pull a little off their sandwiches. Jay's is one of the worst offenders in this arena, as I remember. It's not a sandwich. It's just a pile of meat. And I'd rather have a better beef at half the size.

...y'all make it seee like every other place sucks saying you would rather have a small good beef from Johnnies than a bad big one. Johhnies has by far the smallest beef and every other place I have been serves a bigger portion, so are all the rest out there bad?

Whoa, absolutely not. I certainly haven't said any such thing. Johnnie's isn't even my favorite. There are a bunch of great places. But I do object to the characterization -- frequently seen -- that Johnnie's is being stingy. I don't know the guys who run the place and I don't know what they're thinking, but I know that if I were to open a beef stand and make what I thought was the perfect beef sandwich, it wouldn't be the massive overstuffed version you get at some of the other places. What you show in that photo above is, to me, the perfect amount of beef. That doesn't make you wrong and me right -- this is a matter of personal preference -- it just means that it is possible to consider that a better sandwich purely on its own merits and not because you're being skimpy, that's all.

Its true it is a matter of preference and there are lot's of good beef's. Actually even though Johnnies sells a smaller beef, there prices are still lower than most so I wasnt trying to call them stingy, just trying to get the discussion back to the beef. Just out of curiosity, since you are living in charm city, what beef is your favorite or if the beef fairy were to deliver you a beef from anywhere in Chicagoland, what spot would you choose? When I lived Tampa, I couldnt go a few days without thinking about Mr. Beef, back then it was my favorite and I swear to all who never went in the late 90's it was really good...not anymore.

Da Beef wrote:Just out of curiosity, since you are living in charm city, what beef is your favorite or if the beef fairy were to deliver you a beef from anywhere in Chicagoland, what spot would you choose? When I lived Tampa, I couldnt go a few days without thinking about Mr. Beef, back then it was my favorite and I swear to all who never went in the late 90's it was really good...not anymore.

Probably Chickie's, with Pop's and Johnnie's running close behind. I'm a little spooked by some of the things I've heard about Chickie's since I skipped town, but they still made the two best sandwiches I had in the two years leading up to my departure. When I dream of beef (and I do), I'm sitting at one of those red picnic tables outside on a cold, clear spring morning, sinking into my sandwich while squinting into the sun.

I should really stop following this thread. It's killing me. Especially after the "Italian beef" I got out in the Baltimore 'burbs yesterday. When I have beef nightmares, that'll be the one that haunts me

I don't mean to imply that all other beef in the city sucks -- it certainly doesn't. And, I don't even mean to imply that Tore's is bad or disgusting -- they actually have pretty good beef, but I find the portion size to be terribly out of whack.

I agree with Dom that the photo of Johnnie's beef looks like the exact right size for a beef, to me, and that I think it presents a good value to me, and that bigger is not always (and, I'd say, rarely) better.

gleam wrote:I don't mean to imply that all other beef in the city sucks -- it certainly doesn't. And, I don't even mean to imply that Tore's is bad or disgusting -- they actually have pretty good beef, but I find the portion size to be terribly out of whack.

Tore's is reliable, not great, always pretty good with crisp if industrial fries, solid giardiniera, solid sweet peppers, reasonably priced and, as mentioned, massively proportioned. It is the Ford Taurus of Italian Beef.

I have two friends who are all about the portions, real Johnny's Uncle Jim's (RIP) kind of guys. Both, on more than one occasion, have waxed poetic about Tore's with portion size being the focus. There are a lot of people out there to whom portion size is a factor in desirability, just go to any Maggiano's and witness the hubcap size platters of spaghetti zipping about.

Tore's Italian Beef
2804 N. Western Ave.
Chicago, IL 60618
773-227-7595

Dmnkly wrote:I should really stop following this thread. It's killing me. Especially after the "Italian beef" I got out in the Baltimore 'burbs yesterday. When I have beef nightmares, that'll be the one that haunts me

Dom,

Are you not a fan of Baltamore Pit Beef? I've never had one, but it looked good recently on a segment I saw on Diners Drive-ins and Dives. I know it's not the same, but it would seem to be an acceptable substitute.

stevez wrote:I know it's not the same, but it would seem to be an acceptable substitute.

Here's Dom's take

It is the opposite of an acceptable substitute. It is completely unacceptable.

Dom's take is spot-on: Pit beef is, at best, an decent roast beef sandwich. At worst, it's a bland pile of flesh on a bun. When I lived in DC, I remember being really excited one day for a drive up to try Chaps. I was hugely disappointed to find that I was eating a basically underseasoned, uninteresting roast beef sandwich. If not for horseradish and onions, I'd have felt ripped off.

I tried one other place and wrote off pit beef.

Best,
Michael

eatchicago wrote:When I lived in DC, I remember being really excited one day for a drive up to try Chaps. I was hugely disappointed to find that I was eating a basically underseasoned, uninteresting roast beef sandwich. If not for horseradish and onions, I'd have felt ripped off.

Michael,

That's how I felt about Al's Pit Beef, a decent roast beef sandwich nothing more. Chap's was a different story, quality beef cooked over lump charcoal, nice crusty char, horseradish and white onion, a very good sandwich.

Chap's Pit Beef





Enjoy,
Gary

Chaps Pit Beef
5801 Pulaski Highway
Baltimore, MD 21205
410-483-2379

I don't mean to disparage pit beef. When it's on, as Gary attests, it can be a pretty good sandwich, and it's a completely different beast -- not a substitute by any measure. It would be unfair to approach it as such.

But that said, I don't get pit beef cravings, and while I've had a few that I enjoyed, I've never had any that were memorable, and I certainly haven't had any that have caused me to wax poetic as my favorite Italian beef stands do. Whether that's a matter of the nature of the sandwich, hometown bias or just bad luck, I won't publicly speculate -- though I have my private suspicions

Gary, it may interest you to know, however, that while Chap's is the widely acknowledged king of pit beef in Baltimore, the feeling among the pit beef aficionados I know is that Chap's makes a mediocre to okay sandwich. Canopy is frequently mentioned as a favorite, though I haven't yet partaken myself (hmmm... I suppose I need to eat lunch today). And it can be frustrating, much as it is with Italian beef, because every time somebody touts someplace as a shining example of the genre, somebody else always seems to jump in, insisting that they don't know what they're doing and this is where you need to go for a really good one. Here are a few threads on DonRockwell.com, for the curious:

Chap's
Bada Bing Bada Beef
Canopy

I'll add the aside that while Henry Hong was a little embarrassed about a mistake in the Chap's thread, he's a great local food writer who's obsessive about detail and research and an oops like that is rare for him. He's also a Baltimore lifer who's obsessed with pit beef, so I'm inclined to consider him an authority on the subject, despite the error.

Ok, I'll throw a question out there for the I-Beef mavens. I'm not a native Chicagoan (from Queens originally and a Yankees fan to boot, which certifies my allegiance to the forces of evil), and I am woefully deficient in my appreciation of this food form. Plus, I'm beholden to the CTA during the work week for getting around. Short of wading through all the I-Beef postings (which are legion) and plotting their addresses in Google, I'd like to know where the passable to pretty good joints are, that can be easily accessed by public transportation on the north side. Think Edgewater/Lincoln Park/Lincoln Square/Ravenswood/sorry if I'm skipping a few neighborhoods.

I am stressing passable to pretty good in order to include as many data points in the sample, as it is highly unlikely that I'll make the trip out to Elmwood Park or Arlington Heights for the platonic ideal of I-Beefs. Even Al's on Taylor is a bit out of my reach (I've had it twice, and thought it potentially addictive).

So, what I'd like to do, is to be able to hop off the Red Line on the way home, scarf a beef or two, and then hop back on the train. It doesn't necessarily have to be on the Red Line route but ideally, should be within striking distance of a bus or train.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. I'm also interested in sussing out eatchicago's opinion on Max's as that purveyor of I-Beef is closest to me. I recall you writing that you lived nearby growing up and that your opinion has changed about their principal offering. How did it change, and why? Thanks.

Nothing immediately comes to mind as far as Red Line-friendly beefs.

But....

titus wong wrote:P.S. I'm also interested in sussing out eatchicago's opinion on Max's as that purveyor of I-Beef is closest to me. I recall you writing that you lived nearby growing up and that your opinion has changed about their principal offering. How did it change, and why? Thanks.

I don't recall ever saying that my opinion changed. Max's is my favorite beef on the northside of the city and has been as long as I can remember. Its flavorful and the giardiniera is distinctive and terrific.

At its best, it's among the best in town. At its worst, it's a good IB.

Here's the report, with photos, from Beefathon III.

If Max's is accessible to you, then go for it.

Best,
Michael

JeanneBean wrote:OK....well since you weren't there the day that I was, can you verify that the Italian lemonade tasted normal? Sorry, it tasted funky to me.

I don't like Johnnie's lemonade nearly much as Mario's on Taylor. It's too stiff and has more lemon-oil and less fresh lemon flavor, so it's sometimes a little perfumey. But it doesn't taste like cloves!

Titus Wong wrote:

So, what I'd like to do, is to be able to hop off the Red Line on the way home, scarf a beef or two, and then hop back on the train. It doesn't necessarily have to be on the Red Line route but ideally, should be within striking distance of a bus or train.

For passable to pretty good IB try Patio Beef. I've been several times (though not for some months) and it's always been decent. Not ambrosial like Johnnie's, but more than tolerable.

It's about a 5 minute walk from the Red Line's Granville Station.

Patio Beef
6022 N. Broadway
Chicago, IL 60660
(773) 764-8500
Mon-Sat 10am-9:30pm

G Wiv wrote:

gleam wrote:I don't mean to imply that all other beef in the city sucks -- it certainly doesn't. And, I don't even mean to imply that Tore's is bad or disgusting -- they actually have pretty good beef, but I find the portion size to be terribly out of whack.

Tore's is reliable, not great, always pretty good with crisp if industrial fries, solid giardiniera, solid sweet peppers, reasonably priced and, as mentioned, massively proportioned. It is the Ford Taurus of Italian Beef.

I have two friends who are all about the portions, real Johnny's Uncle Jim's (RIP) kind of guys. Both, on more than one occasion, have waxed poetic about Tore's with portion size being the focus. There are a lot of people out there to whom portion size is a factor in desirability, just go to any Maggiano's and witness the hubcap size platters of spaghetti zipping about.

Tore's Italian Beef
2804 N. Western Ave.
Chicago, IL 60618
773-227-7595

I kinda like the new Taurus! Tore's not so much.

Not sure if this was mentioned but my experience is that Johnnie's is quite a bit less expensive than the other top stands. Their Beef is well under $4.00 and the Combo is under $5.00. I actually like the smaller sandwich and the lower price. It takes care of the craving without the guilt so I can eat them more often.