Freddy's looks to be a little light on the beef. The Mr. D's beef is swimming in beautiful juices. Man, the itch.

Puckjam wrote:Freddy's looks to be a little light on the beef. The Mr. D's beef is swimming in beautiful juices. Man, the itch.

A perfect balance of bread, beef. Not overloaded, falling out/apart.

With the 10” sandwich, probably the same amount of beef.

Beef, sliced, briefly cooked in au jus, prepared to order. You will have to wait a moment...

I’ll challenge you to find fresher.

Freddy's is another that has been on my radar but I've missed. Last time I was in Cicero my friends and I went to Scatchell's, Hawthorne for harness racing and then Villa Nova for late night sausage pizza. Thanks for the FB group tip Panther.

In town on business last week. Drove down so hit Johnnies on North for lunch Friday. Beautiful IB with hot. Man that was good. Hungry enough to also partake in the pepper and egg with sausage. Good stuff. Smooth operation here.

Hungry enough to also partake in the pepper and egg with sausage.

This cracked me up. Was also there on Friday, and I don't know what they were doing, but the combo was better than ever. I remarked to my dining partner that, "the only mistake I made was not ordering two"!

Ram4 wrote:Freddy's is another that has been on my radar but I've missed. Last time I was in Cicero my friends and I went to Scatchell's, Hawthorne for harness racing and then Villa Nova for late night sausage pizza. Thanks for the FB group tip Panther.

Sausage as big as meatballs

Pursuit wrote:

Hungry enough to also partake in the pepper and egg with sausage.

This cracked me up. Was also there on Friday, and I don't know what they were doing, but the combo was better than ever. I remarked to my dining partner that, "the only mistake I made was not ordering two"!

It is a fantastic beef but maybe the skimpiest for the price. You need two to get a full beefs worth. :0

Unlike the beef I had at...

Novi's Beef
6746 Ogden Ave, Berwyn

... a week or so ago. So full it is as a challenge to pick up and eat. Classic old school flavor you’d expect from a place around since, well forever.

If you know near where I live, it is close to Cicero Ave. The address I give to Google™ is 4760 W. Belmont Ave., 60641.
Which of course, is not my address. It is close, but it is not even in the same Chicago ward as I. {Let's hear it for gerrymandering! }
So when I catch a CTA bus out of here, one of my top routes is going south on Cicero (Route #54 Cicero ~ I have testified [via correspondence] to the CTA Transit Board that it should revive the #X54 Cicero Express route on weekdays). The transfer point at Cicero & Cermak (22nd St.) is one block away from Scatchell's. From there, I can catch the Pink Line “L” train toward downtown (although there is also one intriguing bar, The Barrel, at Damen & the Pink Line), the Pace route #302 to Flapjack Brwy. in Berwyn {Berwyn }, which also connects to the Pace route #330 at La Grange Road for Casciani's Pizzeria [Italian Beef] which I can bring to Blue Nose Brwy. further along East Ave. in Hodgkins, or the Metra BNSF train to a number of breweries or beer bars (including the one in Downers Grove which was Argus Brwg.'s first account) in Westmont, Downers Grove, Naperville, or Aurora.
I think Scatchell's Italian Beef is another one of my favorites, and its hot pepper mix is a lot more inclusive of capers and giardinara than Mr. Beef on Orleans' {Why does it charge extra }. So if I am not going to Casciani's, I will load my stomach with a Scatchell's Italian Beef (and its french fries are also to my preference)(Mr. Beef's french fries - no).
What I was stressing is that, if the pepper mix (hot or sweet) is so critical to the taste of your Italian Beef sandwich, raise the sandwich price 50-90¢ and cease jerking us all around for the 'mandatory option'.
(Hypothetically heard at an Italian Beef stand : "What do you mean, “Cash only”?
- This ATM is a {bleep}ing rip-off!")

Had the opportunity to chat on the phone with Chris Pacelli, grandson of one of the founders of Al's Beef. Here's a portion of the transcript that might be illuminating/entertaining for those who enjoy Italian beef and the history of that sandwich in Chicago:

“Italians, in the Thirties, late Twenties, there were all kinds of gamblers, half-assed Mafia guys and stuff. My uncle Al was involved in all that, a gambler, dis dat. Well, he gets in trouble, has to go to jail, comes out of jail and starts driving a truck, Then his friend says, ‘let’s open up a bookie place.’ So my uncle says, ‘Well, I got an idea for a front. Why don’t I do beef sandwiches, and I’ll sell them like a front.’

"Anyway, a lot of these beef places – like Carm’s and Mr. Beef – they all started out because of gambling. All these beef stands started because of my uncle. They were gamblers, and they saw him making money, cash money, and they figured that’s an easy way to make money and still gamble. They needed a source of money and instead of stealing they sold beef.”

While it was open for 50 years, if you ever walked into the tiny Vittori Sandwich Shop at Taylor and May, and saw the old man Bart sitting in the back room by the the gas-burning heater, you might think what Al's relative was telling David is pretty accurate. Lotta numbers going on in that room in the past, policy, etc. You wanted to hang out there.

Oh, I loved those beefs and combos back in the day. Similar to Al's (esp. the giardiniera) but on a skinny, long Italian roll. Subs were incredible too. Bart was a good dude.

I miss Vittori's. Went to St Ignatius in the early 80s and it was our go to spot. Much better than Al's. For a short time in the late 80s they had locations on south Cicero in Oak Lawn and on Ogden In Downers Grove. Beef with hot or the Bart Special were the two best sandwiches of my teenage years.

metro man wrote:Beef with hot or the Bart Special were the two best sandwiches of my teenage years.

I recall it being called the Super Bart, but it's a memory from maybe 22-24 years ago.

Best thing about Vittori's was how thoroughly anti-Al's they were with regard to ethos, the opposite of the expansion/franchising that has taken place.

I too went to Ignatius (but in the 90s) and remember Vittori fondly. There was a healthy debate about whether Al’s or Vittori was better, and each had its proponents. I happened to be an Al’s guy, but appreciated Vittori quite a bit, not the least of which because of the price - it probably cost half of the price for a regular Al’s beef for one of those long-ass Vittori’s beefs. Interestingly, I remember people buying Fritos and pouring them on the top of Vittori’s beefs - to soak up some of the red oil, I suppose.

It wasn’t quite the 20s or 30s, but Taylor was definitely different back then. The Nut House across the street from Al’s was interesting. Ali’s sub shop across from there, and the downstairs pizza place with bready slices just a bit west of that corner (Aberdeen). Projects across Racine but then Patio and the old Pompei on Loomis. Really good after school food options, and of course Mario’s in May/August.

Ram4 wrote:Frannie's has a very good beef. With Mr. Beef and Pizza, Bob-O's, Frannie's, and Jay's in that NW side area, you have four solid options.

Ram4, you mention Mr. Beef and Pizza on Harlem a few times in this thread. Admittedly I was skeptical but stopped in for a quicky late lunch. Fries, so-so, counter service, so-so, ate in-house and managed to drop my soda, clumsy me, and ended up having a nice chat with the friendly interactive manager who confirmed Mr. Beef and Pizza Harlem is now an entity all to itself.

The beef you babbling idiot, how was the Italian Beef? Very good, surprisingly good, tender, juicy, subtle spicing, slightly fatty in a good way with mild/medium crunchy made in-house giardiniera dipped to the point of barely holding together. I liked it, ate it with enough gusto to consider ordering another, but did not.



Mr. Beef and Pizza on Harlem, Italian Beef, count me a Fan!

Mr. Beef and Pizza
3917 N Harlem Ave
Chicago, IL 60634

Yeah, Mr. Beef and Pizza has been a lock in my top 5 for many years. While the fries are no big deal, they still hit the spot when fresh and crisp. Hard to resist a slice of pizza every time I go there. I like the old rock and roll theme too.

Funny you were there because yesterday I was nearby at the place you recommended for the beef - Mr. D's (for my second visit). I took my brother for his maiden voyage, and he went for a steak sandwich which he loved even though he was given raw onion instead of the grilled he asked for. We both asked for our fries to be crispy and they were great. As for my beef it was just like the first time - about as good as you could get. This place was an instant addition to my (as DaBeef called his) starting five beef joints. Had a nice chat with the family after the meal including John the son. He may always look like his pissed off, but he's a really nice guy to talk to! They were appreciative of people recommending the restaurant but are wary of explosive growth alienating the regular customers. I let them know (as many have) how it's great that they take the time to cook everything to order including each order of fries.

I guess I forgot to mention that in October I finally made it Freddy's Pizza (twice) and had a beef each time as well as a different slice of margherita pizza each time. The pizza was amazing and fresh out of the oven close to noon. The beef was yet another winner and one of the best around. I also hit Marco's Beef for the first time and that was yet another great beef, though a little below Mr. D's and Freddy's on my visit as it was a little dry. I'd go back for sure. Bubby's Beef in Elk Grove on Higgins next to Malnati's was very good and Franco's of Naperville was a miss and overrated online but I could understand why. I can't imagine people out in Naperville getting to places like Mr. D's, Mr. Beef and Pizza, Scatchell's, etc so they have nothing to compare to other than what's out there.

Thanks to @Ram4 for tipping me off to Pete's Red Hot in Cicero. They're serving up a very good sandwich with homemade beef and gravy:

What I liked is that the beef is sliced very thin to the point of being semi shredded. I feel like this is almost a prerequisite to have a really good Italian beef as it helps tenderize a tough cut of meat. The gravy at Pete's is also very flavorful and rich with beef fat - clearly homemade. The only real drawback is that it's a bit too salty and that's coming from a salt lover. But that is something that can vary a lot from day to day even at the same stand (like the gravy evaporates too much, etc) so not a big deal. Good sandwich overall.

Less good was Lucky Dog just down the street. Their beef is also thin sliced (good) but kinda dry with a cottony texture (bad). And their gravy tastes like it's made from bouillon cubes. I will say in their favor the bread is toasted to a nice crisp on the outside, which is something I wish more places did. Not a terrible sandwich but Pete's just down Roosevelt is a better choice.


Pete's Red Hots
6346 Roosevelt Rd, Oak Park, IL 60304

Lucky Dog
6043 Roosevelt Rd, Cicero, IL 60804

G Wiv wrote:Mr. Beef and Pizza on Harlem, Italian Beef, count me a Fan!

I'm on a bit of a hot dog stand kick lately, imagine it stems from my obsession with Mr. D's, both steak sandwich and Italian beef. In the last week or so I've eaten well at Hermosa, Poochie's, Mr. Beef and Pizza, Roma's and today, Bob-O's. Three of the five were Italian Beef and I've come to a few conclusions.

First and foremost a great Italian beef should be balanced, no one flavor overpowering the other. Second, tender to the point beef/bread/gravy almost dissolve in the mouth, one maybe two teeth required to eat. Almost a culinary magic trick. This is not to say it falls apart and Never-Ever should a top quality beef be taken to go, consume on the spot. I also like a bit of oily/fatty mouthfeel. Not to say fatty beef, just a hint of luxuriousness.

Another thing I've noticed is the sense of loss as the last bite passes and the immediate impulse to order another. I never do as another sign of a great beef is wait 5-minutes and you feel full, happy, sated. I also tend to order fries which fill me up.

Just a few Italian Beef ramblings, probably left out a few things, and I'm sure some disagree, fine with me.






Italian Beef, count me a Fan!

G Wiv wrote:First and foremost a great Italian beef should be balanced, no one flavor overpowering the other. Second, tender to the point beef/bread/gravy almost dissolve in the mouth, one maybe two teeth required to eat. Almost a culinary magic trick. This is not to say it falls apart and Never-Ever should a top quality beef be taken to go, consume on the spot. I also like a bit of oily/fatty mouthfeel. Not to say fatty beef, just a hint of luxuriousness.

Another thing I've noticed is the sense of loss as the last bite passes and the immediate impulse to order another. I never do as another sign of a great beef is wait 5-minutes and you feel full, happy, sated. I also tend to order fries which fill me up.

Gary,

Completely agree with your IB assessments. IB’s may be the only meat I want cut/braised to this level of melt in your mouth texture.

If the fries aren’t hand cut, I personally would do two beefs and skip the frozen fries.

Great insight. And you do seem to go on benders with things that are your current obsessions. At least you didn’t subject Ellen to this. Normally it seems to be with recipes you’re cooking at home.

GWiv reviews, count me a fan! #nobabycorn

G Wiv wrote:Italian Beef, count me a Fan!

I never realized this was even in question!

Al Ehrhardt wrote:If the fries aren’t hand cut, I personally would do two beefs and skip the frozen fries.

Poochie's, Bob-O's and Mr. D's all have great fries. Roma's very good, Hermosa ok, but coated food service, Mr. Beef and Pizza fries are sub-par as is the counter service. That said, it takes a really bad fry for me to not eat at least some of them, especially if there is ketchup and/or giardiniera on hand.

Only place I've had a combo (recently) is Roma's as their Italian sausage is terrific, fennel forward, made in-house, coarse grind, really tasty. Speaking of combos, I've not been to Johnnie's in a few years, going to rectify that soon.

Far as recent culinary obsession, Ellen is just about to put her lovely manicured food down on my kugel making.

G Wiv wrote:Far as recent culinary obsession, Ellen is just about to put her lovely manicured food down on my kugel making.

I remember you saying the same when you were on the Oklahoma onion burger kick...

I never really got the attraction to combos. While really good Italian sausage is on my short list of perfect foods, the mixture of IB and Italian sausage seems to detract from the individual deliciousness of each. They aren't synergistic, IMO.

Al Ehrhardt wrote:I never really got the attraction to combos. While really good Italian sausage is on my short list of perfect foods, the mixture of IB and Italian sausage seems to detract from the individual deliciousness of each. They aren't synergistic, IMO.

I get what you're saying: texturally it's an odd bird, to the point where eating it may result in the sausage ejecting itself from the roll. A reasonable compromise (and one I may have to do today now that I'm remembering it) is to ask for some beef gravy to be ladled over a sausage sandwich.

Al Ehrhardt wrote:I never really got the attraction to combos.

In general I agree though, at Roma's, texture of the coarse grind house-made sausage seems looser, gentler, more in tune with Italian Beef. Far as Johnnie's combo its grilled over charcoal, flavor/texture is fine but, hey, charcoal.

While I typically go straight Italian beef when I have a combo I often employ a variation of my double-dog* technique, remove Italian sausage from sandwich and eat separately.

*Order double dog, remove one natural casing hot dog, eat separately out of hand, savor snap, spices, flavor. Enjoy remaining dog on bun with sport pepper, mustard, onion and, if feeling frisky, relish.

Gary, you really hit four top joints with your recent visits. I've been to Mr. D's twice since your original photo and both were solid top five beefs. I need to get back to Roma's as it's been 10 years since I've been there and I remember liking it. Bob O's was a great beef too, but not one of my all-time favorites. I'll go back to try another. Mr. Beef and Pizza has long been a top five for me.

Eating While Walking - glad you made it to Pete's. They do a top beef. Anyone who complains about Johnnie's being skimpy will be very happy with this beef. Fries are frozen but I love most fries if they are fresh out of the fryer.

G Wiv wrote:Far as Johnnie's combo its grilled over charcoal, flavor/texture is fine but, hey, charcoal.

Any other beef joints do the charcoal sausage dance?
I'm not a combo guy, but Johnnie's Combo is a thing of beauty. And the only reason I'd go there.

My brother wanted to try his first beef at Mr. D's, so around 4:00 yesterday I called them to make sure they were open. Mrs. D answered and said they were open until 6:00. We got there just before 5:00 and they were closed! Not cool Mr. D's. I will let them know this happened when I go back soon. My brother was really pissed, having driven us 45 minutes in traffic from the Mag Mile area. I told him, do not worry - this is a blessing in disguise because there is another top beef joint nearby I really like so I pointed him in the direction of Marco's Beef and Pizza on Fullerton and Austin.

Our beefs were LOADED with meat. Absolutely loaded and dare I say - "heavy." I don't necessarily want too much meat, but anyone who complains about Johnnies being skimpy will be in heaven. He loved his sandwich and was happy to have ended up here. Even the RC which I normally never get was really good. Fries are simple crinkle fries.

In the meantime his Mr. D's maiden beef voyage will have to wait until another day in the near future but we went home very happy after our meal at Marco's.

Marco's Beef and Pizza
6008 W Fullerton
Chicago IL
773-745-1015
Open 10-10 except F-S 10-11 and Sun 11-8
Warning: No bathroom for customers
RC on tap

Ram4 wrote:I told him, do not worry - this is a blessing in disguise because there is another top beef joint nearby I really like so I pointed him in the direction of Marco's Beef and Pizza on Fullerton and Austin.

Marcos is as you say a top beef sandwich and my close-to-home standby. I overlooked it for waaay too long because their building looks more like a converted bank than a place that serves food. Big portions and the price is right. Their giard has the signature thin shredded carrots which I like better than the carrot chunks you get with most giards. It’s a nice textural compliment to the shredded beef kinda like the bamboo shoots in moo shu pork.

seebee wrote:Any other beef joints do the charcoal sausage dance?

As far as I can remember only Johnnies and Al’s (Taylor st only) have char grilled sausages. At those places a sausage sandwich dipped hot can rival the IB for tastiness.

Merry Christmas and happy beefing in 2020!

Wait ... dipping Italian sausage sandwiches is a thing?!?! I've never thought that was an option, but it sounds brilliant.

anybody ever have the beef at Fatso's Last Stand? (2258 W. Chicago) I usually stick to their char dogs and go to Jay's for beefs but I just noticed the beef on their menu.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone order one, but they do a great job with everything else so I'll probably give it a shot soon.

Woo hoo! I scoop Google™!
I was downtown Friday to eat something before the Central Electric Railfans' Assoc.'s monthly meeting. I decided to go to the Al's Italian Beef shop on south Wabash Ave.
But it was no longer Al's.
It is now Chicago's Finest Beef & Brew.
I decided to have the italian beef anyway.
It still tasted good. Staff needs to learn the difference between 'wet' and 'dipped'. I selected the former, and got a not-particularly-fresh bun which was dry in part. The french fries were still to my preference.
Here is how much it cost. The combo option adds $3.99 to your tab.
I do wonder which avenue the "Brew" will go up: Coffee or beer? If it is the latter, could that be the reason it had to drop the affiliation with Al's?
Anyway, if you search 234 S. Wabash Ave.; Chicago, IL. 60604 on Google™, it will still inform you it's an Al's.
Ha, ha, ha, ha {Diabolical laughter}.

Let me get this straight. Here's a place calling itself Chicago's Finest Beef and Brew, yet they don't have a homemade beef recipe? This reminds me of that place in the movie Elf that claimed they had the world's best cup of coffee. I'll pass on this beef joint.