BryanZ wrote:I just have a hard time eating at a sushi place called Katsu, much less, Bob-san.

I'd eat sushi at a place called "The Vomit Factory" if it was the best sushi around.

rmtraut wrote:No props for Sai Cafe?!?! I've hit dozens of sushi places across the city, in the past, but can't quite keep up with all of these trendy sushi places popping up all over. I mean since when did thumping techno go hand in hand with raw fish? In any case, Sai has been my old stand by. I haven't found better unagi anywhere - with the exception of the unagi don at Sunshine Cafe. The spicy tuna crunch is absolutely addictive, and the nigiri pieces are always fresh, flavorful, and not skimpy. The service - welcoming and attentive. I really can't ask for more and have pretty much given up trying all of the new places. Where's the love?!?!

I have to 2nd Sai Cafe. Best unagi in town (out of Mirai, Meiji, Kamehachi, Bob-san, Sushi wabi, Coast, Tombo Kitchen, Matusya, etc). It helps that they serve it separately, warm, fresh and not drowned in eel sauce. Just thinking about it makes my mouth water.

But what really makes Sai Cafe my favorite sushi spot is how friendly the sushi chefs are. They always say hello and good-bye with a smile. I've also never had a surly server there either.

BTW, if you like oysters, their spicy oyster shooter is sublime.

BryanZ wrote:I just have a hard time eating at a sushi place called Katsu, much less, Bob-san.

Were you planning on eating the name or the food? Bob-san is great, can't speak for Katsu.

And yet you're apparently willing to eat raw fish at a place called "Heat."

There's a great foodie story from Yasuda, a top sushi restaurant in New York. When dining at his section up to a couple years ago, Yasuda would often bring out a soy sauce-stained legal document. Upon further explanation he would explain that this was the transcript from a deposition between him and the lawyers of Hatsuhana (NYC), his previous employer. In his Hatsuhana contract there was supposedly a non-competition clause should he leave the restaurant so he was held up in various legal negotiations. When asked why he left Hatsuhana he replied, "No more make spicy tuna roll." When asked again, his response was, "No more make spicy tuna roll." This continued for several lines. The lawyer then asked, "So you're saying you left Hatsuhana and started your own restaurant because you didn't want to make spicy tuna rolls?" Yasuda replied, "Yes."

So, long story, not that on topic. Yasuda is my kind of itamae. I don't have anything against modern sushi, it's just that is done sooo awfully 98% of the time that it's hardly worth the money. That's why I'm looking for somewhere that's as simple and traditional as possible.

Mike G wrote:And yet you're apparently willing to eat raw fish at a place called "Heat."

Touche. At first I was very, very, very skeptical. Hell, I still am. It's called heat and does "live kill' TILAPIA. Jesus. But the promise of various types of fish "offal" is interesting. On the other hand, the menu at Bob-San looks rather boring, and I can't vouch for the quality of the fish since the per piece prices are so low.

BryanZ wrote:I can't vouch for the quality of the fish

Bryan,

I suggest you try Bob San or Katsu, which are both top of the Chicago sushi game, and let us know how you liked, or did not, like your meal.

Enjoy,
Gary

BryanZ wrote:On the other hand, the menu at Bob-San looks rather boring, and I can't vouch for the quality of the fish since the per piece prices are so low.

Figure on paying double the price, I'll take 50% as a broker. Looking better now?

G Wiv wrote:

BryanZ wrote:I can't vouch for the quality of the fish

Bryan,

I suggest you try Bob San or Katsu, which are both top of the Chicago sushi game, and let us know how you liked, or did not, like your meal.

Enjoy,
Gary

I guess I should've made it more clear, but I'm looking for one heads up favorite, as my funding and time is somewhat limited.

Based on these boards it seems like Bob San, Katsu, and Mirai are favorites. It seems that Heat and Tanoshii are worth mentioning too. I guess what I'm asking is, if I am going to spend a decent amount of money on sushi, where, among those, will I have the best experience.

If no one really stands out, I guess I'll just choose the one that's most convenient to me. I'm guessing they'll all do some kind of omakase type meal.

BryanZ wrote:I'm guessing they'll all do some kind of omakase type meal.

Bryan,

In that case I suggest Katsu, see this post or Sakuma in Streamwood.

Enjoy,
Gary

Katsu
2651 W Peterson Ave
Chicago, IL. 60659
773-784-3383

Sakuma's Japanese Restaurant/Sushi Bar
43 S. Sutton Road
Streamwood, IL 60107
(630) 483-0289

I'm not sure I understand. You're an experienced sushi eater, and yet you expect an entire bulletin board of people, with their various tastes and experiences, to agree on ONE best sushi place, out of probably 100+. If I were to pop over to a NYC food board and ask the same, do you think I'd get just one answer?

I've never had anything but a very good meal at Mirai. I thought Katsu was horrible. I think Bob-San is ok. Other people will say pretty much the opposite. Sounds like you need to pick one and go with it.

If the presence of trendi maki will be an annoyance (I don't share the feeling, but I sympathize), I'd probably shove you in the direction of Katsu. Of those mentioned with which I'm familiar, it's the least likely to offend traditional sensibilities.

That said, dude, if you're looking for lockstep agreement on the "best" that overlooks nuances, strengths and weaknesses of various places, to say nothing of price performance, I think you're barking up the wrong forum

BryanZ wrote:I just have a hard time eating at a sushi place called Katsu, much less, Bob-san.

For what it's worth, by the way, the restaurant is named after the chef, not the pork cutlet.

Dmnkly wrote:

BryanZ wrote:I just have a hard time eating at a sushi place called Katsu, much less, Bob-san.

For what it's worth, by the way, the restaurant is named after the chef, not the pork cutlet.

I sincerely hope that no one ever refers to MY pork cutlet as "Bob-san."

basis wrote:I'm not sure I understand. You're an experienced sushi eater, and yet you expect an entire bulletin board of people, with their various tastes and experiences, to agree on ONE best sushi place, out of probably 100+. If I were to pop over to a NYC food board and ask the same, do you think I'd get just one answer?

I've never had anything but a very good meal at Mirai. I thought Katsu was horrible. I think Bob-San is ok. Other people will say pretty much the opposite. Sounds like you need to pick one and go with it.

See that's the the thing. In NYC, the top three are generally considered to be Masa, Kuruma, Yasuda. All three range from very good to mind-blowing. Sure people also like places like Gari or Ushiwakamaru but it's not like people are saying any of the top three are "horrible" or "ok" like is the case here. The postings here encompass views wider than what I was perhaps expecting.

I'm obsessed with value, as in getting the most from my limited dining budget, so that's why I'm looking for a location universally considered the best. I realize this is often a futile task, but, hey, it's worth a shot.

Regarding the name of Katsu. Yeah, that makes more sense.

BryanZ wrote:See that's the the thing. In NYC, the top three are generally considered to be Masa, Kuruma, Yasuda. All three range from very good to mind-blowing. Sure people also like places like Gari or Ushiwakamaru but it's not like people are saying any of the top three are "horrible" or "ok" like is the case here. The postings here encompass views wider than what I was perhaps expecting.

So you just named 5 places, but you want only one choice in Chicago?

BryanZ wrote:

basis wrote:I'm not sure I understand. You're an experienced sushi eater, and yet you expect an entire bulletin board of people, with their various tastes and experiences, to agree on ONE best sushi place, out of probably 100+. If I were to pop over to a NYC food board and ask the same, do you think I'd get just one answer?

I've never had anything but a very good meal at Mirai. I thought Katsu was horrible. I think Bob-San is ok. Other people will say pretty much the opposite. Sounds like you need to pick one and go with it.

See that's the the thing. In NYC, the top three are generally considered to be Masa, Kuruma, Yasuda. All three range from very good to mind-blowing. Sure people also like places like Gari or Ushiwakamaru but it's not like people are saying any of the top three are "horrible" or "ok" like is the case here. The postings here encompass views wider than what I was perhaps expecting.

I'm obsessed with value, as in getting the most from my limited dining budget, so that's why I'm looking for a location universally considered the best. I realize this is often a futile task, but, hey, it's worth a shot.

Regarding the name of Katsu. Yeah, that makes more sense.

Chicago has nothing in the league of Masa, Karuma or Yasuda, nor do I think that the fish quality is within 15% of those places. Good luck with your Toro or Uni crawl.

Interesting discussion. Besides the obvious categories of quality, freshness, presentation, value, etc., 'best' sushi to me has always involved how that part of the Japanese cuisine interacts with the rest of the dining experience at that given restaurant.

I plan on dining at Yasuda in NYC this August, and up til now Katsu has been my only taste of the higher-echelon sushi. And while I found Katsu's presentations to be beautiful, and certain things were to die for, such as their broiled unagi appetizer, I found the place as a whole somewhat overpriced and portions way too small. I know a lot of folks here won't admit that there's something's wrong when you spend $50, $60, $70 a head and walk out hungry. And yes, I know what I'm in for at Yasuda as far as price, but it'll be a one-time thing, and I can judge by that.

For my money, I've always thought that Renga-Tei in Lincolnwood or Hayashi in Gurnee are the best buy on the board for fresh, melt-in-your-mouth sushi, along with the generally high quality of the rest of their extensive traditional menus. Whether you sit at their sushi bars or dine at a table, the experience is magnificent.


Renga-Tei
3956 W. Touhy
Lincolnwood, IL
(847) 675-5177


Hayashi
6641 Grand Ave. (Rte. 132)
Gurnee, IL
(847) 856-0270

We really like Kuni's in Evanston. Very close to the Main street Metra or CTA stations. Closed on Tuesday.

Kuni's
511 Main St.
Evanston 60202-4540
847-328-2004

I think there are a few things going on when it comes to assessing the state of sushi in Chicago.

Suppliers - From what I know, there is a relatively small network of suppliers of sushi in this area, particularly at the high end. As of a year ago, I believe Mirai, Tsuki and Japonais were all getting basically the same fish. I think the issue of limited supply leads to volatility in experiences, even at the top places.

Sushi chefs - I wish I had some statistics to back me up, but I would guess the Chicago has far fewer "trained" sushi chefs than NYC. Sushi is about more than just slicing up some fish. This is a highly respected profession that takes years and years of training. It's about proper cutting, perfect rice and understanding the customer. Some places here stick less than trained people behind the bar leading to less than great sushi.

"Institutional knowledge" - Question for those who have lived here longer than I have...how long has quality sushi really been available in Chicago for? Growing up in NJ, sushi is one of the first foods I can remember eating with my parents. It was just a normal part of life for me and those I grew up with. Moving to the midwest, I found that sushi had a more exotic "cache". I encountered quite a few people who either had no experience eating sushi or had only tried it from the supermarket. I guess what I'm trying to say (and I don't mean to offend anyone here by this), is that Chicago doesn't yet have a "sushi culture" that demands high quality. A lot of people (99% of whom don't post on this board) are perfectly happy to go out and get a few maki with cream cheese and spicy mayo and declare themselves connoisseurs. These are the people who would go to Yasuda and slam the place because they don't have enough "fun rolls".

I think there can also be confusion between the concepts of style and quality. Somewhere upthread (and I know I've seen it in a few other places), some people equate large slices of fish with high quality sushi. This simply isn't the case. Large slices is just another style. At Yasuda, he will actually customize the size of the pieces so they fit exactly in your mouth in one bite. Is one style "better" than the other? No, they're just different.

Bottom line...is sushi here as good as NYC (or LA)? Absolutely not. The right conditions (both in terms of supply quality and market demands) just aren't right for it. If we demand better, and shun the mediocre, hopefully the market will listen.

jesteinf wrote:I"Institutional knowledge" - Question for those who have lived here longer than I have...how long has quality sushi really been available in Chicago for? Growing up in NJ, sushi is one of the first foods I can remember eating with my parents.

I grew up in Chicago, and eating sushi was normal for me at least as early as the late '80s (junior high for me), around the time my father started traveling to Japan for business, but my experience may have been atypical. Of course, we knew what we had at home was a mere shadow of what my father (and shortly thereafter) I had in Japan.

I moved out to L.A. in '95 and was thrilled by the ubiquitous nature of good fish out there, and for the next six years was totally disappointed by anything I had while back in Chicago. Then I came back to Chicago in '01 and found a couple places I thought were passable. And I think the quality across the board has steadily risen since then, but I think it's more a matter of the mediocre places catching up and becoming decent rather than the best places getting significantly better. But you're absolutely right, there's still no comparison.

I don't see any reason why it has to be this way. It seems to me that being in a coastal town should be irrelevant when everything is being flown in anyway. I think you're right in that it just takes time for the market to develop. Fish, sashimi or otherwise, always used to suck in Chicago. It's come a long way, but I think that's a very recent phenomenon.

I think so much of our ethnic food experience is also explained by immigration patterns. Chicago's wave of Japanese immigration was in the 40s (people escaping the internment camps on the west coast), it doesn't compare in numbers to what the west coast has gotten continuously for a century. So they've had more exposure to Japanese food for a longer time, especially above the Sunshine Cafe/Hamburger King level; sushi became part of the business culture much earlier, which fed a demand for higher-end sushi in a way that made it much more than a novelty as it still sort of is here, LA is more caught up in the oneupsmanship game restaurant-wise anyway (a scene in the book Thank You For Smoking has a Michael Ovitz-type demonstrating his supreme position in the social hierarchy by offering indescribably expensive sushi from the Marianas Trench), and so on and so on. New York, as the central capital of world business for most of a century, is in a similar position even though Japanese immigration hasn't been in comparable numbers-- but I'm sure many a chef has been beckoned from one coastal capitol to the other.

That's why I hate to hear Yasuda brought up in the same breath as Katsu, as if the only possible way to think about one is in head to head competition with the other. Completely different market, completely different expectations, completely different pricepoint. If Katsu had wanted to be Yasuda in this market in 1992, he'd have gone broke at it the first year. There is a place for restaurants at every level; Katsu is a friendly guy who gets good quality fish and you can have a real nice time there for a fair amount, but not an insane amount, of money. That is fine in and of itself, but if the only measure you have for the violinist at your wedding is Yehudi Menuhin, you're inevitably going to be disappointed.

Mike G wrote:That is fine in and of itself, but if the only measure you have for the violinist at your wedding is Yehudi Menuhin, you're inevitably going to be disappointed.

Another reason to just book Billy Idol and be done with it.

Mike G wrote:That's why I hate to hear Yasuda brought up in the same breath as Katsu, as if the only possible way to think about one is in head to head competition with the other. Completely different market, completely different expectations, completely different pricepoint. If Katsu had wanted to be Yasuda in this market in 1992, he'd have gone broke at it the first year. There is a place for restaurants at every level; Katsu is a friendly guy who gets good quality fish and you can have a real nice time there for a fair amount, but not an insane amount, of money. That is fine in and of itself, but if the only measure you have for the violinist at your wedding is Yehudi Menuhin, you're inevitably going to be disappointed.

This is very true, there's no sense in directly comparing a place like Katsu with a place like Yasuda (at least from what I've read about Yasuda) in a vacuum, but in context it's meaningful to point out that Chicago only goes so far up the scale. Plus, I think it's notable that the amount of money you spend at Katsu would go much further in a city like Los Angeles. It's not a snotty criticism that requires getting defensive. I have as much pride in the Chicago food scene as anybody here. But the sushi scene, for the many interdependent reasons you and jesteinf point out, hasn't developed as quickly or as fully here. My hunch is that this will be changing in the near future, but for the time being the narrower point -- that somebody looking for the Chicago version of Yasuda or Urasawa will be disappointed -- is right on.

I have been a sushi addict since 1981...used to always go to Matsuya on Clark, and still go there at times for inexpensive, dependable, nostalgic sushi...plus they treat me like family--they have a Japanese witress that shares my name (Vicky) so they all yell out my name when they see me...

However, my tastes have changed and I like a lot of the newer places. Sushi Wabi is a few blcoks from my house, but such a jamed nightclub that I order it delivery only at this point. Sushi X is maki only, and mostly delivery too. But good at what they do--inventive rolls and appetizers (like Japanese pot roast served with wasabi mashed potatoes). They are also freakishly fast when they deliver.

Sadly for me, my new favorite sushi joint--Hatchi's Kitchen (owned by Sai Cafe) does not deliver--to my neighborhood!!!! But they deliver! They have great stuff and when we get the bill we are always shocked by how reasonable it is for food of this quality. They do great appetizers--both hot & cold--like Creamy Spicy Broiled Scallops and Ahi Poke made with sesame oil. My favorite rolls are the Halloween (salmon, tempura green beans, black roe, tempura crunch) The White Tuna Crunch (mayo, tuna, tempura crunch), and the Lava roll (lobster, spicy mayo, avacado). The nigiri and sushi is great, too. Their menu is online. Check them out, if you haven't already.

I'm curious about the price issue at Katsu. On my recent trip to Yasuda, I spent $120 pre-tax/tip and had about 20 pieces of sushi, a toro/scallion roll, an uni handroll and a bit of sake. Honestly, I don't think that was terribly expensive given the quality of everything I got. Would Katsu's prices really be that much different?

My vague impression is that I've usually spent about half that or a little more at Katsu when really blowing it out, yes.

Crazy C once said:

Dinner at Katsu (no alcohol) usually runs me about $40 - $60 per person and that includes a 18%-20% tip, depending on what I get. Compared to the nice dinner I had at Mirai a week ago ($90), I would much rather go to Katsu.

That seems close to right, maybe a little low, for my experience.

This is very true, there's no sense in directly comparing a place like Katsu with a place like Yasuda (at least from what I've read about Yasuda) in a vacuum, but in context it's meaningful to point out that Chicago only goes so far up the scale. Plus, I think it's notable that the amount of money you spend at Katsu would go much further in a city like Los Angeles. It's not a snotty criticism that requires getting defensive.

Not how I meant to sound at all. My point is, you can like your neighborhood steak joint for doing a darn nice steak on a Friday night after work, and also recognize that a dry-aged steak at Smith & Burkensky is a whole 'nother thing (for a whole 'nother price). It's not a zero-sum game that requires a winner and a loser.

Mike G wrote:

This is very true, there's no sense in directly comparing a place like Katsu with a place like Yasuda (at least from what I've read about Yasuda) in a vacuum, but in context it's meaningful to point out that Chicago only goes so far up the scale. Plus, I think it's notable that the amount of money you spend at Katsu would go much further in a city like Los Angeles. It's not a snotty criticism that requires getting defensive.

Not how I meant to sound at all. My point is, you can like your neighborhood steak joint for doing a darn nice steak on a Friday night after work, and also recognize that a dry-aged steak at Smith & Burkensky is a whole 'nother thing (for a whole 'nother price). It's not a zero-sum game that requires a winner and a loser.

On that, I heartily agree

Dmnkly wrote:it's notable that the amount of money you spend at Katsu would go much further in a city like Los Angeles.

and on Dom's point I'd whole heartedly agree (even from Roma).

For the price of Katsu, i'd much rather suffer another $10 in gas for Sakuma. So yes, there is absolutely a winner vs. loser. I haven't eaten sushi in the city save 2 times at Itto in the last 1 year. It's a totally pointless & wasteful exercise.