Hopleaf - Is It Really That Bad?

I've long wanted to go to this place, but having the need of a sitter makes it hard. We've finally got things lined up though now.

My wife has heard from numerous different sources that the service at Hopleaf sucks and the waitstaff is rude. Then someone made mention of it in a post about mussels.

My question, to those who have been, and even those who have heard about it, is it really that bad? What should we expect? We do plan on eating and then staying for after dinner drinking.

Hmmmm.

Can't be that bad. After all, we did give them a Great Neighborhood Restaurant Award.

Best,
Michael

The service in the back, the restaurant area, is very good. I've never had any problems. In the bar area it's more hit or miss.

We don't go to Hopleaf much, mostly because of the distance and because they've hiked prices by about 25-30% since Check Please, but it's one of our top choices when we're up there for a show at the Neofuturarium.

My husband and I love Hopleaf and although our fondness for the place may come from the fact that we equate beer with romance, I honestly feel that it is a very unique place that is capable of serving wonderful food. We were just there last Thursday and had an outstanding, er, meal (really it was more like a nosh). I had the mussels and the rabbit rillete and my huband had an open-faced Belgian meatball sandwich. I will say, though, that the quality of the food has not always been uniform during our visits. Sometimes we have gone away thinking that certain menu items weren't as well-executed as they could have been. In addition, I also think that they have never figured out a reliable way of serving food to the bar area. It almost seems like the bar and the restaurant are two different operations. My final complaint about Hopleaf is that it has gotten very crowded lately and on more than one occasion we have been forced to go have dinner at Hama Matsu across the street instead. Overall, though, I think that Hopleaf is an outstanding place. I recommend it to people all the time.

I was there last Wednesday night at around 10:30, and the place was still jumping. Yes, the service can be lackadaisical, but when the room is packed to the gills and loud as hell, who could blame them? It's not service with a smile, but I've never been given any attitude, even after the novice mistake of ordering "milk stout." I was asked "What kind?" without so much as an eyeroll. If you are looking for a "relaxing" pint, this is probably not the place. But the Hopleaf is always exciting, and if I lived closer, I'd visit more frequently.

Duh. I should have searched beforehand. Sorry guys, but thanks to those who have responded.

I can't resist piping up about the poor customer service at the Hopleaf. Mind you, I've been going to the Hopleaf for twelve years as I am inevitably lured back by good beer (yes, I'm weak and worthless). I've never had a problem with the servers, but the bartenders display an apalling, I'm-too-cool-to-serve-you attitude that is more appropriate for a bumpin' nightclub than a neighborhood bar. Meagan, whom I've seen described on this board as the "middle-aged female bartender" is one of the worst and has been around the longest. I can't help but think that she sets the tone for the rest of them, although that is purely speculative.

As for the hostess, whenever I've chosen to be seated in the dining area, she seemed to be more easily flustered than actually discourteous, so I've cut her some slack. The bartenders, on the other hand, are more consistently curt and taciturn.

In short, if you're going to the Hopleaf, steel yourself before ordering drinks. You'll usually get a decent pour, just not a friendly smile.

I can't resist pointing out that if what you're looking for is abundant beer choices and not dinner as well, Map Room has maybe even a better selection of beer [mmmmm, must do research.....] than Hop Leaf and all of my interactions with the bartenders there as been at least civil and often quite friendly.

No food menu at Map Room, but they do have free food on International Night and there are some decent restaurants near by.

Giovanna

Though I've been hearing and reading about Hopleaf for years, I have eaten there only once. Whether I go back again is a matter of some uncertainty for Vegas oddsmakers, and indifference to me.

While I didn't experience either off-the-charts rudeness or bad food, the 'tude was just unwelcoming enough, that the food and even the beer list are insufficient to overcome the mild antipathy with which I left.

It was early one weekday evening and I took advantage of a period of de facto bachelordom (wife and son had set out on the 2-city Great Grandma Tour of the Northeast: Summer '06; tour t-shirts and bomber jackets available) to go out on my own.

The joint was, if not actually jumping, capering nimbly, and I went straight toward the back room to see if conditions were propitious for solo dining. (Didn't want to take up a table if large parties were waiting.) It was as I passed through the limenal space between the rooms that my visit took a wrong turn and failed to recover.

The room was crowded with tables, patrons, and waiters squeezing around and about with large trays, so rather than planting myself in the entryway, I moved a few steps inside to clear the path for servers. As I stepped forward I heard from over my shoulder that very specific delivery of "excuse me?" that raises all my hackles at once. It is not the "excuse me" of a friendly proprieter eager to welcome a guest, but that of a floorwalker closing in on a shoplifter or panhandler. It proceeded from the epicene mouth of a none-too-neatly attired "host" who wished to make clear that I had violated house rules by walking right past the small, off-to-one-side-and facing-3/4-away-from-me sign that said "wait to be seated." Not that I had even entertained the thought of seating myself, but he wasn't taking any chances. Not when a well-placed, raised-eyebrow "excuse me" would preempt any potential infraction.

Once seated, I was served in decent time by an efficient if brusque waitress and ordered pate and mussels. They were both good, but the pate didn't come with near enough bread to spread it on and the mussels did not come with any sort of dish for empty shells, the lack of which made for a rather messy table.

I ate, paid my check and left without any sense of having been welcome, or of relaxing over a decent dinner and drink, which is something I want in a neighborhood joint. Perhaps with a gaggle of friends none of this would have made any difference. But just the previous night I had been back to my old haunt, The Athenian Room on Webster. Also alone. It had been years, and no one there now knows me, but the hostess evinced something like pleasure at being able to seat me quickly; the waitress smiled when she brought the menu and again when she took my order; the bartender at Glascott's chatted a bit pouring my drink.

And my $10 skirt steak Alexandros was not merely good enough, it was terrific. Marinated for a long time in some combo of wine/vinegar/herbs. As perfectly med.-rare as one would expect at a downtown temple of steak--charred outside, then pink, then red at the very center. Chewy, satisfying. Incomperable cottage cut fries, crunchy outside, imbued with lemon and oregano. And around me all sorts of people: DePaul students, young families with infants and tolddlers, professionals talking business and eating messy food with ties thrown over their shoulders.

That's what I want far more than just good moules and biere and that's what I'll go back for.

Giovanna wrote:I can't resist pointing out that if what you're looking for is abundant beer choices and not dinner as well, Map Room has maybe even a better selection of beer [mmmmm, must do research.....] than Hop Leaf and all of my interactions with the bartenders there as been at least civil and often quite friendly.

No food menu at Map Room, but they do have free food on International Night and there are some decent restaurants near by.

Giovanna

Big fan of the Map Room, but these days, I've become an even bigger fan of Quenchers. They have about as many beers to choose from as the Map Room, they're a little less crowded, plus they're just down the street from Honey 1!

Quenchers do serve food, and most of it looks good for bar food, but I've never actually had any since when I'm in that neighborhood, I'm usually getting my fill from Honey 1.

Quenchers
2401 N. Western Avenue
Chicago, IL 60647

Oh boy-you all should consider yourself lucky! C'mon, somebody out there has to remember what the bartenders at Hopleaf were like before food entered the picture. Each and every stinkin' one of them must have studied under the same freakazoid. They made Seinfeld's "soup nazi" look like Shirley Temple. The typical "greeting" was to approach you and stare with absolutely no comment, until you ordered your drink. If you initiated conversation before your order like: "How's it going?"-it would be not be responded to, or if lucky, you would get a nod.The current staff is lightyears above those mean-spirited, robotic...
Whew! Anyway, currently the beer selection is, in at least one way, the best in Chicago, the food is quite good, and the room is charming.

I live around the corner and go to Hopleaf every couple of weeks, though not always for food.

Don't go at 8pm on a Friday and the service issues and harried-ness will be less of a deal. Show up earlier, maybe around 6, midweek and you'll have a more enjoyable first experience. Seems commonsense to me: go at least high volume times and many of the gripes will be non-issues.

For what it's worth, I enjoy both the beer and the food and find the hostess in the back to be not all that bright, but certainly friendly enough. Enjoy your evening there.

I was at Hopleaf this past Saturday and had a very good time. We arrived at 4PM and had our choice of seats in the bar area. Both bartenders were very pleasant (and attractive). The female bartender even joined our conversation on the movie "Borat."

We didn't stay for dinner because we were heading on to Edgewater Tavern, but we enjoyed ourselves immensely.

Last time we went it was something like 8:30 on a Saturday. We even got a table! We ordered from the bar, beer and food, and it was fine.

Giovanna wrote:I can't resist pointing out that if what you're looking for is abundant beer choices and not dinner as well, Map Room has maybe even a better selection of beer [mmmmm, must do research.....] than Hop Leaf and all of my interactions with the bartenders there as been at least civil and often quite friendly.

No food menu at Map Room, but they do have free food on International Night and there are some decent restaurants near by.

Giovanna

I have to second the Map Room mention. Only thing I'd modify is the comment on their beer selection--that is, they have a wider draft beer selection (w/German heavy-weights standing side-by-side with their Belgian counterparts), and not necessarily a larger bottled-beer one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but both places offer around 200 beers at any given moment, with HL specializing mostly in Belgian brews. On the other hand, it does seem like MR rotates their draft beers more regularly than the HL. Although as a bar it gets just as crowded as HL.

That said, HL is still a safe first-placer in the Belgian beer category, at least in this city. And if you don't believe me, take a glance at the chalkboard listing of their bottled-beer offerings, against the wall to your left just after getting the ID check at the door. I'll see about snapping a pic of it next time I'm in.

Finally, here's a side-by-side from the ratebeer folks: http://www.ratebeer.com/Forums/Topic-55912.htm

stewed coot wrote:Oh boy-you all should consider yourself lucky! C'mon, somebody out there has to remember what the bartenders at Hopleaf were like before food entered the picture. Each and every stinkin' one of them must have studied under the same freakazoid. They made Seinfeld's "soup nazi" look like Shirley Temple.

Coot, You're not talking about Bruno are you ?

http://www.mkeonline.com/story.asp?id=1391468

jedibrand wrote:I have to second the Map Room mention. Only thing I'd modify is the comment on their beer selection--that is, they have a wider draft beer selection (w/German heavy-weights standing side-by-side with their Belgian counterparts), and not necessarily a larger bottled-beer one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but both places offer around 200 beers at any given moment, with HL specializing mostly in Belgian brews. On the other hand, it does seem like MR rotates their draft beers more regularly than the HL.

jedibrand is indeed correct about the relative draft/bottle availability at the different watering holes. My default order is pretty much always something on tap, in no small part because draft beer, especially the American microbrews, can [but, alas, not always] be less subject to the insults that careless shipping and storage can inflict on a beer. Still remember the first time I had a Heiniken on tap and realized that it wasn't supposed to be skunky tasting . Problem was, I had grown to like skunky....

Giovanna

JSM,
Didn't want to mention any names-there were actually 3 other lesser offenders along with the apparent ringleader. It was grim. Better Milwaukee than here.

stewed coot wrote:The typical "greeting" was to approach you and stare with absolutely no comment, until you ordered your drink. If you initiated conversation before your order like: "How's it going?"-it would be not be responded to, or if lucky, you would get a nod.

Spot on.

BTW, props to Binko for his Quenchers' reco. I was on my way to an evening's acoustical entertainment being held at the nearby Ipsento coffeeshop, when I happened on Quenchers' doorway. I ambled in and was very pleasantly surprised to see more than 10 microbrews on draft -- including a very tasty Great Lakes Elliot Ness amber ale. Numerous other beers hailing from more exotic climes were listed on a blackboard. What piqued my interest though, was a brief glimpse of an adjoining room in which I espied a few Chesterfield sofas surrounding a coffee table (my imagination filled in a roaring fireplace that remained tantalizingly out-of-sight). I was enamored by the prospect of sipping my ale in a Christmas scene from the Pickwick Papers but didn't have any time to investigate further as I was already late for my original engagement. Quenchers' merits a future visit however.

Pity about the name -- makes "Fuddruckers'" sound almost authentic.

Titus, I know what you mean about the sound of that name, but considering Quenchers has been around as a beer-centric bar for 27 years now, I give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it's our ears that need adjusting? To tell the truth, and I know it is a libel, "Hopleaf" has always sounded to me like a name for a chain place that ought to have a little "®" appended ("Come on out to Hopleaf®, Chattanooga's HOT SPOT for HOP HEADS, where it's TWOFER PINT TUESDAYS ... located on the I-40 interchange, just south of the Sam's Carpet World next to Chi-Chi's.")

Giovanna wrote:Still remember the first time I had a Heiniken on tap and realized that it wasn't supposed to be skunky tasting . Problem was, I had grown to like skunky....

Actually, Heineken in bottles is supposed to be "skunky" tasting. That is by design. The green glass bottles promote the "skunky" flavor. It is only due to Anheuser Busch commercials, playing on the naivete of the US beer market, that the flavor is now considered undesirable. If Heineken did not want the skunkiness, they would use amber glass, like Bud. Unfortunately, it seems (to me) that Heineken has responded by somehow making their beer less "skunky" while keeping the trademark green glass. To me, that flavor was what made Heineken unique.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the Maproom vs. Hopleaf argument is that HL's prices on draft beer are about 30%-40% higher than the Maproom (at least on the brands that I drink).

PS. It seems to me this thread has become more of a beverage related thread than an "eating out" thread.

Tius & Binko -

I'm a Quencher's regular. I have been going there for years since I used to work nearby.

The beer is wonderful. The food...well, let's just say Honey 1 is down the street. They have some hot sandwiches, cold sandwiches, personal pizzas and soup. I like the chili and I like the nachos made with chile.

I go to Quencher's to waste time with my friends and to get drunk. I hardly ever eat there.

AngrySarah wrote:I like the chili and I like the nachos made with chile.

I first went to Quencher's in about 1980 or 81, back when Logan Square was considered to be the Wild West. My boss, who owned property in the neighborhood, brought me there specifically to eat chili. In fact, aside from the selection of imported beers, the chili was what Quencher's was known for. I am happy that they have recently resumed making it. I wonder if it is as good as it was 25 years ago.

d4v3 wrote:Actually, Heineken in bottles is supposed to be "skunky" tasting. That is by design. The green glass bottles promote the "skunky" flavor. It is only due to A******r B***h commercials, playing on the naivete of the US beer market, that the flavor is now considered undesirable. If Heineken did not want the skunkiness, they would use amber glass, like B*d.

Much is made in beverage writing about the damage that can be done to beer and wine through careless shipping [especially damage through storage at extremely varying temperatures]. But without going into the properties of light effects on malt beverages [and aren't they stored in boxes which block the light anyway?], why does Heineken from a barrel taste so different from Heineken from a bottle? My assumption/eduation was that beer barrels were stored more carefully, and that the taste of tap beer was partly a result of relative freshness [or lack thereof] and the cleanliness of the lines.

Oh, and please don't use bad language like "A******r B***h" in front of me

Giovanna

d4v3 wrote:Actually, Heineken in bottles is supposed to be "skunky" tasting. That is by design. The green glass bottles promote the "skunky" flavor. It is only due to Anheuser Busch commercials, playing on the naivete of the US beer market, that the flavor is now considered undesirable. If Heineken did not want the skunkiness, they would use amber glass, like Bud. Unfortunately, it seems (to me) that Heineken has responded by somehow making their beer less "skunky" while keeping the trademark green glass. To me, that flavor was what made Heineken unique.

I've never heard this about Heineken, but I have heard this about Corona, possibly in one of Charlie Papazain's homebrewing books. Do you have source for this information? I've been trying to convince someone that beer makers do this by design with Corona, but I can't figure out where I've read it. Even with a Heineken reference, it would help convince this person.

Also, I've always hated Heineken but once, when I was in Holland, I ordered a fish & chips and all they had was Heineken, but served in brown bottles, IIRC. Much to my surprise, it was actually a palatable lager.

Binko wrote:I've never heard this about Heineken, but I have heard this about Corona, possibly in one of Charlie Papazain's homebrewing books. Do you have source for this information? I've been trying to convince someone that beer makers do this by design with Corona, but I can't figure out where I've read it. Even with a Heineken reference, it would help convince this person.

On researching this, I can find plenty of online references to the effect of UV on hops in beer, but so far, I can't find anyone who says it is done on purpose. Rather, people seem to attribute it to marketing decisions. Maybe I am wrong (wouldn't be the first time). However, I am convinced that especially in the case of Corona, it is purposeful. The light-struck flavor is such an integral part of the Corona taste, and it is always present, even in Mexico. If a manufacturer didn't want the beer to taste that way, they would put it in an amber bottle. How else would you explain brewers that bottle lager in green bottles, but darker beers in amber? Giovanna also makes a good point about the cases protecting the beer from light. I have some beergeeks coming over for Turkey-day. I will ask them what they think.

I did read somewhere that the shape of a pilsener glass is designed to dissipate the light struck gasses that are generated by the green pilsener bottles.

d4v3 wrote:However, I am convinced that especially in the case of Corona, it is purposeful. The light-struck flavor is such an integral part of the Corona taste, and it is always present, even in Mexico

Yeah, this is driving me nuts, because I swear I've read it somewhere, but I can't find my source. In fact, I believe what I read was that canned Corona is purposely irradiated with UV to imitate the skunkiness of the bottled version. Now if I could only figure out where I've read this.

I do not believe Heineken is intentionally 'skunked' but the green (rather than brown) bottles contribute to skunking or skunkification or whatever one should call it and so here it often (though hardly always) has that skunky taste and smell ( to various degrees). In the Netherlands, where one inevitably has to drink Heineken sometimes, it is not skunked and is a decent big-brewery 'pils'.

Much better brew is easily found these days but when Heineken appeared on the scene here in these United States those many moons ago, it was a large step up from the pissbeer that dominated the market. From this perspective, one should feel less inclined to heap abuse upon them and instead to thank them for helping to improve the beer landscape in this country.

With regard to Hop Leaf, my exchanges with barpeople there were straightforward and unremarkable. I like the place, though it's not very Belgian in many ways, this from someone who spent thousands of hours in the cafés of Belgium. The Map Room reminds me more of a good café.

Antonius

Ik weet waar een café is,
Biljart en geen TV is,
Waar opa op zijn sloffen
Zijn nieren af komt stoffen...
- 'Adieu Café', Herman van Veen

AngrySarah wrote:Tius & Binko -

I'm a Quencher's regular. I have been going there for years since I used to work nearby.

The beer is wonderful. The food...well, let's just say Honey 1 is down the street. They have some hot sandwiches, cold sandwiches, personal pizzas and soup. I like the chili and I like the nachos made with chile.

I go to Quencher's to waste time with my friends and to get drunk. I hardly ever eat there.

That may be true, but they do have a tator tot pizza...how can you go wrong.

I've stated it before, but here's a direct experience I had w/ the middle-aged female bartender at Hopleaf. I was sitting at the bar w/ a few friends having dinner (great wine-mussels) and some nice lambic. Directly to my right was my buddy's wife. Anyway, we were finishing up our food when the bartender in question came to the taps in front of us to pour a beer. Well, the tap blew and it sprayed a good bit of beer on my buddy's wife and me. No big deal by us. I've worked as a bartender before. We both kinda chuckled and said to the bartender, "Whoa, you got us there"...in a playful manner. She glared at us and in a condescending manner, spat out, "What? You want me to call an ambulance for you?" We were stunned. I've never had such mean-spirited service.

Note - This wasn't the only incident w/ her...just the best illustration. She was terrible to all of us. It got past the point of being laughable to the point I was genuinely red-hot angry.