How Do You "Pros" Suggest I Handle This...

There is a neighborhood place I go quite regularly. Good food, good service. The servers recognize me, as does the owner.

Within the last month this place has been visited by an unending supply of fruit flies or something of the sort. They are always found in the same area of the restaurant - in the seating area that abuts the enclosed kitchen/prep area.

I raised this the first time I saw them with the manager, who apologized and comped me. I thanked him, but said what I really wanted was to have the problem resolved and not be swatting at these things while I was trying to enjoy my meal. He mentioned that the monthly extermination was due the next week and they would mention the problem.

Unfortunately the problem still exists over a month later.

I said something to the owner last week as he was seating me back in the 'fly' section. I asked if 'the uninvited guests were gone' and he went on a rant about how 'every restaurant in the city' has been infested since the storm in August, but that he hadn't seen any 'yet today' and was confident that they were gone. I let him know that as soon as I was seated, a fruit fly landed in my water, so obviously the problem wasn't solved as he so patronizingly wanted me to believe.

Back this morning with out of town family, and saw the little things zipping around the same area...

So, I've been nice about it, light-hearted actually. Spoke with the owner, who I felt was most patronizing. I don't really want to call 311, but want this fixed...

So, to you pros, any suggestions??

Thanks.

Seems to me that you've done everything reasonable. I'm sure some will disagree, but it sounds to me like it's time to either decide you're willing to deal with it and let it go, or find a new favorite neighborhood restaurant.

Dmnkly wrote:Seems to me that you've done everything reasonable. I'm sure some will disagree, but it sounds to me like it's time to either decide you're willing to deal with it and let it go, or find a new favorite neighborhood restaurant.

I'd concur with Dom. It's a shame, but you've done what you can, and it seems like you've been more than willing to give the place a second and third chance. If you just love it too much to leave forever, maybe you could just give it 45 day breather -- I've had loads of those flies in my garden, and I'd guess they'd be gone by the end of October (if not sooner).

Spoke with the owner, who I felt was most patronizing. I don't really want to call 311, but want this fixed...

Seems to me that you've done everything reasonable. I'm sure some will disagree, but it sounds to me like it's time to either decide you're willing to deal with it and let it go, or find a new favorite neighborhood restaurant.

Or...why not call 311?

riddlemay wrote:

Spoke with the owner, who I felt was most patronizing. I don't really want to call 311, but want this fixed...

Seems to me that you've done everything reasonable. I'm sure some will disagree, but it sounds to me like it's time to either decide you're willing to deal with it and let it go, or find a new favorite neighborhood restaurant.

Or...why not call 311?

Some fruit flies merit reporting a place to the health department? Seriously? You don't think that's something of a disproportionate response?

The City doesn't consider it disproportionate. They have shut down restaurants for that in the past.

I have to admit, I just don't think fruit flies are that big a deal. They seem inevitable at this time of year. As long as you're not eating fruit that's been sitting cut open, it's not likely to be a problem. Maybe it's because I was just in Texas, where they have scorpions every morning when they get up. Eat at home for a month, I'm sure they won't have them in mid-October.

Mike G wrote:They seem inevitable at this time of year.

Care to explain why for the uninformed? I did not know this but have noticed FF in the home lately.

It's a little hard to tell how big a problem the fruit flies are. I understand that fruit flies can be a signal of less than ideal sanitary conditions at a restaurant and that they breed in decaying fruits and vegetables. And merely because the fruit flies have disappeared does not mean that potential unsanitary conditions have been cured. At the very least, I would be cautious about eating at such a place. And I don't think it would be overreacting to report this issue -- one person's opinion.

Report the restaurant to the Health Department, and let professionals inspect - that's the responsible thing to do. I'd also stop eating at the restaurant.

BR wrote:It's a little hard to tell how big a problem the fruit flies are. I understand that fruit flies can be a signal of less than ideal sanitary conditions at a restaurant and that they breed in decaying fruits and vegetables. And merely because the fruit flies have disappeared does not mean that potential unsanitary conditions have been cured. At the very least, I would be cautious about eating at such a place. And I don't think it would be overreacting to report this issue -- one person's opinion.

They also breed in drains so a fruit fly infestation usually means that all drains/sinks/garbage disposals need to be completely cleaned and sanitized to get rid of the decaying matter that might have built up inside.

I think that fruit flies are a seasonally inevitable side to food preparation. This year has been extra bad due to the rains in august, just as the mosquito outbreak is unusually big. Every place that I have dined or shopped for food in the last month has had at least a few flying around, including my kitchen. Other than being an annoyance, I am not concerned with them from a health perspective. In fact I would be more concerned if the restaurants were spraying lots of insecticides all over the place. Like I tell my kids, they are just a bit of added protein.

-Will

WillG wrote: Every place that I have dined or shopped for food in the last month has had at least a few flying around, including my kitchen. Other than being an annoyance, I am not concerned with them from a health perspective.

Me too!

I've found that leaving the dregs of some wine in the bottle and placing it near the fruit solves the FF problem rather quickly.

Most of the sites I looked at recommended a simple method: pour a little cider in a glass or jar, then make a paper cone and stick it partway into the glass (NOT touching the cider). Flies fly in and either fall in the cider or get trapped on the other side of the cone.

time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!

I've been reading these responses to my initial question with interest, and have done nothing as of yet. Out of perhaps a misplaced sense of both loyalty and enjoyment of the food, I've been back once hoping to see the problem resolved, but instead saw several of these pests on the lightly painted wall.

I just saw this on Chicagoist, and noted that the interest of the Health Dept was aroused by a call to 311.

http://chicagoist.com/2007/09/26/about_your_rese.php

mss60614 wrote:I just saw this on Chicagoist, and noted that the interest of the Health Dept was aroused by a call to 311.

So...is this the same place
you were talking about?

It is not...I've avoided mentioning the place and will remain silent on that in here, as I understand the damage that one persons' opinion can cause to a family business.

I'm not surprised Penang got hit. I know I'll catch hell for this comment being that this site has it's chinese food-adoring fans, but ALOT of restaurants in Chinatown practice dubious sanitation practices. I won't name names but I got VERY sick last week from a beloved chicken preparation at a popular Chinatown destination.

I have to chime in and say that accurately determining the source of a case of food poisoning is exceptionally difficult, given the large variation in onset times among the different bacteria/viruses.

Average onset for various types of food poisoning:

Salmonella: 6-48 hours
Staph: 1-8 hours
Campylobacter: 2-10 days!
Listeria: 2-30 days!
E.Coli: 3-4 days
Noroviruses: 24-48 hours

My point is that, generally, it's extremely difficult to say whether place A or place B or place C or your own kitchen got you sick. If you and someone else got sick with the same thing, and your only meal in common was at one restaurant, that's probably a sign.

I'm not saying anyone here is wrong about what got them sick, I'm just saying that I take all of these reports with a pound of salt.

gleam wrote:I have to chime in and say that accurately determining the source of a case of food poisoning is exceptionally difficult, given the large variation in onset times among the different bacteria/viruses.

Average onset for various types of food poisoning:

Salmonella: 6-48 hours
Staph: 1-8 hours
Campylobacter: 2-10 days!
Listeria: 2-30 days!
E.Coli: 3-4 days
Noroviruses: 24-48 hours

My point is that, generally, it's extremely difficult to say whether place A or place B or place C or your own kitchen got you sick. If you and someone else got sick with the same thing, and your only meal in common was at one restaurant, that's probably a sign.

I'm not saying anyone here is wrong about what got them sick, I'm just saying that I take all of these reports with a pound of salt.

Excellent point, Ed. This is exactly one of the main reasons why this policy exists.

I'm not saying anyone here is wrong about what got them sick, I'm just saying that I take all of these reports with a pound of salt.

Discounting such reports isn't such an easy thing do to, for me. I take these reviews seriously. I suggest that when people have concerns they report them to the health department, people qualified to make the proper determination.

I mentioned this post to my figjustin and he was not surprised as one of the previous restaurants he worked at had a huge problem with fruit flies. They spent countless hundreds of dollars each month trying to get rid of them, including installing around $15,000 worth of special lighting that was supposed to kill them. It didn't work and they continued to have the problem until November every year. For a neighborhood place, it would be almost impossible to spend that much money. I think if the owner is notified and seems to be concerned, there is no need to report it to 311. If the fruit flies really bother you, wait until November to return.

figmolly wrote:I mentioned this post to my figjustin and he was not surprised as one of the previous restaurants he worked at had a huge problem with fruit flies. They spent countless hundreds of dollars each month trying to get rid of them, including installing around $15,000 worth of special lighting that was supposed to kill them. It didn't work and they continued to have the problem until November every year. For a neighborhood place, it would be almost impossible to spend that much money. I think if the owner is notified and seems to be concerned, there is no need to report it to 311. If the fruit flies really bother you, wait until November to return.

This seems like a very sensible, non-hysterical response. Thanks for the reasonable perspective, figmolly.

I agree that figmolly's approach is sensible, but it raises a question. This is a "non-agenda" question; it arises out of a contradiction I'm seeing, that I'd like to have resolved, just for the sake of my own cognitive dissonance.

If fruit flies are really just a "fact of life" at this time of year (nothing can be done about them, no matter how much money you spend, etc.), then why does the city Health Dept. cite them as a reason for the closure of Penang? Does the Health Dept. not know that fruit flies are inevitable? Should there be a change in the regulations that removes fruit flies from the list of possible offenses? What happens when the Health Dept. makes a return visit and finds, as they inevitably will if figmolly is right, that fruit flies are still there (since they are simply ineradicable)? It hardly seems fair to punish a restaurant for a force of nature it can do nothing about.

Or, is it the case that fruit flies are considered a health code violation because they really are not inevitable?

Someone is wrong on this issue--and it could be the city's Health Department. (Or then, it might not be.)

I think the issue is, half a dozen fruit flies are inevitable, a thousand are a problem. I also doubt they're the only problem found in such situations.

You might want to go BYOFP (Bring your own fly paper) and hang a few around your table. But seriously... I had the same problem in my kitchen over the past few weeks and it worked really well. Nice luddite approach. Cheap too.

During the summer months flies are a fact of life that all restaurants and most homes have to deal with. There are steps restaurants take to help control these nuisances like, air curtains, bug sticks, and lighting, but unless they sealed their doors there is no way to eliminate the flies especially since most of the flying pests enter through the same door as the customer.

Just this week I've had a problem at my home. We entertained a number of friends over the weekend and with that our sliding rear door was left open for some period. Ever since I've been trying to eliminate the nuisance flies from our apartment. Are these flies going to keep me from eating in my home? NO! I know that I keep my kitchen up to my formerly certified sanitation standards. This is just a problem we have to live with for a few more days.

OTOH, a few nuisance flies is a sharp contrast to a swarm of buggers dive-bombing my plate as if they were recreating pearl harbor. If there is a high concentration of flies in a restaurant which does not have direct access to the outdoors; there might be a problem.

Flip

Mike G wrote:I think the issue is, half a dozen fruit flies are inevitable, a thousand are a problem. I also doubt they're the only problem found in such situations.

I'm with Mike, and I think this is why you call 311 - if it isn't a real problem, they should pass...if it is a problem, they should be given time & tools to correct it. I know calling the health dept. on a restaurant is considered tantamount to calling the IRS on a friend, but I hope that is a misperception. Hopefully, it's more like making a friend with an odd symptom see a doctor - might be nothing, might be serious - why take the risk?

This is in no way implying that restaurants aren't doing their job or are unsafe (our family ate at Penang quite recently and enjoyed it.) Everybody needs a checkup now and then.

What I would do:

1) Call 311 on the establishment. The fruit flies are probably the tip of the iceburg.

2) Find a new place to eat. Any restaurant owner who cannot stay on top of, and practice cleanliness, and follow the health code isnt worth patronizing.