In which I learn a lesson at Spoon

I have been to Spoon many times after first having been introduced to its delights at a Thai dinner hosted by Erik M, and heretofore I have never had less than amazing food and pleasant service. And actually, the food and service we received at lunch yesterday was fine; it was the price that shocked us.

We ordered two appetizers, one main course and an iced tea, and our bill was almost $30. Granted, that's not very much for a good meal for two people at most restaurants, but it certainly didn't seem in step with Spoon's usual price range. We looked at the bill, and the shrimp in red curry that we ordered from the daily specials board was $15.95, $9.00 more than the same curry with chicken. It is admittedly our own damned fault for not having asked about the price of a special, but we had no idea that adding shrimp to curry would more than double its price.

We didn't complain, since it really was our responsibility to know the price before ordering, but I am still flummoxed. Does it seem weird to anyone else? Am I an idiot? Or should I just consider it a valuable lesson about asking the price of something before buying it?

I don't know what type of shrimp they use in the curry at Spoon or how much of it. It could certainly be worth the $16 they charge, but IMHO I hate when restaurants' specials are significantly more than the entrees on their regular menu. I don't like to ask for the price because I don't want to seem cheap and I certainly would expect a price jump for luxury ingredients (lobster, truffles, etc.), but I think they should mention the price in a case like this.

I've haven't been to Spoon (yet,) still have a love affair with TAC going on but I offer this -

Sounds like it is some kind of mistake that went through whatever system of checks and balances they have (if they even have one.) May just be that nobody has questioned it yet, and when someone does, the workers at Spoon might be a little red faced?

It might just be, however, that it is worth it in some way (special ingredients - super fancy rare shrimp maybe?) as in - was the Red Curry offered on the specials board the same RC offered on the reg menu? (assuming there is a standard RC always on offer) or was there a different RC on the regular menu which was 6.95?

Hi,

Yesterday I was in a restaurant where the specials board stated everything except the price. I asked the price in advance of ordering largely because I hate surprises. When the half-chicken dinner was $13.95, which is far more than I would normally consider, I opted for a $7.95 hamburger.

While the restaurant should disclose prices, it is ultimately up to you to ask.

Regards,

It's safe to assume that you don't feel like you got $9 worth of shrimp?

I really wonder if the curry wasn't a different curry (with the same name) altogether. Regardless, I don't think you were an idiot at all. I can see why it'd bother you, but you shouldn't feel taken. One thing Erik really helped me understand was the importance of instilling confidence in us as diners to places like Spoon, which, in turn, makes them more willing to serve authentic, "risky" dishes. I have to make very clear that I know what naam prik is before they'll bring it to me.

I really wish I could articulate a general term for weird-price-gray-area problems. I'll toss out two that I've encountered recently:

1) At an upper-mid-scale restaurant recently, I ordered a lamb sandwich. I did this in my customary way of pointing to the menu item while I was ordering...I believe the exchange went something like:

"And I'll have the lamb san..."
"The lamb? Very good."

You can probably see where this is going...I ended up with the lamb entree and not the sandwich, at about 2x the price. I wasn't feeling confrontational that evening, and the lamb in front of me looked so good, I just decided to chalk it up to experience and eat and pay what was put in front of me (it was delicious, and I would have ordered this lamb it I'd known it was so good). My girlfriend, though, felt that I should say something, because we'd designed our orders around $12 sandwiches, not $26 entrees. No regrets on how this turned out, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone had any thoughts about it.

2) $7 salads are ubiquitous, and I really have no problem paying that in most places that charge such an amount; I feel like there's some kind of covenant between a restaurant and a diner: you're going to provide a dish with ingredients of proportional cost to the price you charge. $10 bufala caprese salad at Spacca Napoli? No problem! A couple months ago, I found myself at an Italian restaurant I'd never been to or heard anything about. My lady and I ordered salads for $7 and $8, respectively, and what we received was just insulting. Her house salad was literally a handful of mesclun mix with some cheap vinaigrette on top, and mine was a similar portion of torn romaine and institutional ranch dressing. The restaurants was empty besides us, and I was similarly feeling like not making a fuss...there weren't any spoiled ingredients or anything along those lines...do people here believe that it would be appropriate to send back a dish priced beyond what we know to be appropriate?

As I recall, some of the curries from the Thai menu are on the order of $13-14 (and more than enough for two).

Ndgbucktown,
Interesting question as far as the second issue. I think we all can relate to being shocked at the price of a menu item after it arrives.
I have never said anything when confronted with this situation, and certainly never sent an overpriced item back.
It does seem reasonable to call a manager over before you touch the item-if for no other reason to check that the amount of food, accompaniments, etc. are correct, and to make him/her aware that, if the item is plated correctly, you feel it is priced too high.
The first issue all depends on how good that lamb entree looks.

ndgbucktown wrote:2) $7 salads are ubiquitous, and I really have no problem paying that in most places that charge such an amount; I feel like there's some kind of covenant between a restaurant and a diner: you're going to provide a dish with ingredients of proportional cost to the price you charge. $10 bufala caprese salad at Spacca Napoli? No problem! A couple months ago, I found myself at an Italian restaurant I'd never been to or heard anything about. My lady and I ordered salads for $7 and $8, respectively, and what we received was just insulting. Her house salad was literally a handful of mesclun mix with some cheap vinaigrette on top, and mine was a similar portion of torn romaine and institutional ranch dressing. The restaurants was empty besides us, and I was similarly feeling like not making a fuss...there weren't any spoiled ingredients or anything along those lines...do people here believe that it would be appropriate to send back a dish priced beyond what we know to be appropriate?

If those salads were as bad as you describe, I would call for the mgr, and ask for a simple explanation of the price in his or her words. If the mgr did not see an issue with anything, I would insist on paying the 15.00 tab(even if they wanted to comp it,) and tip (not the server's fault) and leave without eating the salad. I would then contemplate (I've done things more odd than this, mind you) going to the nearest italian resto (it's Chicago, come on!) Ordering two similar salads to go, and return to the first resto to show them EXACTLY why their dining room was empty. Some people will probably think I am kidding when they read this. Trust me - I've done MUCH stranger things.

One other possible explanation. Many restaurants have different prices, sometimes accompanied by different portion sizes, between lunch and dinner. Is it possible the chicken curry was a lunch price/portion, and the shrimp curry was a special designed as a dinner dish and therefore with a dinner price/portion? How does that price compare with other shrimp dishes on their menu?

FWIW, I just looked up the menu for my favorite Thai restaurant, Thai Sookdee in Evanston, for comparison. Their dinner menu offers chicken in red curry for $6.95, and shrimp in red curry for $7.95. The same prices are available for chicken or shrimp in green curry. Their lunch specials have both green curries at the same prices but include an appetizer (limited selection) and soup. So by comparison with Thai Sookdee, anyway, the pricing at Spoon Thai seems odd.

Seebee, you've described an enviable part-time job, not a pleasant evening.

This happened to me too - I ordered a soft-shell crab dish without checking the price, and were we shocked when we got the bill. I believe it was almost $20! While I did learn an important lesson when it comes to the specials board, I still think they ought to have warned me that I was ordering the most expensive thing on the menu...by almost double.

Suzy Creamcheese wrote:I still think they ought to have warned me that I was ordering the most expensive thing on the menu...by almost double.

Certain posters here would have made much hay of such rude, condescending treatment.

Softshell crab is a lux item, shrimp not necessarily so.

The offering of luxury items at otherwise very cheap restaurants can lead to such misunderstandings. Consider the many humble Chinese places where one can get a 3 buck special from the same menu as lobster and abalone.

Incidentally, many restaurants show prices on their specials board. Even restaurants whose specials are only recited by servers often have prices stated when doing so. I think this should be mandatory. Particularly when an item's price is significantly higher than most items on the menu.

JeffB wrote:

Suzy Creamcheese wrote:I still think they ought to have warned me that I was ordering the most expensive thing on the menu...by almost double.

Certain posters here would have made much hay of such rude, condescending treatment.

Perfect example of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

I completely understand why it's a good idea and why many people prefer that servers announce specials prices, and as such would never ever hold it against a restaurant for doing so. But that said, I've always found it vaguely crass (though certainly not rude and condescending) and hate it when they do. To be clear, I can't justify this and won't try to... it's just a gut reaction.

I always just assume I'm going to pay a premium for a special and consider it a pleasant surprise if I don't

I appreciate it when there is a written specials menu or prices are listed on the board.

Guessing makes it hard to stay in your budget. While I'd agree, it's like having your budget on your sleeve when servers list the prices - I do think cost should somehow be communicated.

Suzy Creamcheese wrote:This happened to me too - I ordered a soft-shell crab dish without checking the price, and were we shocked when we got the bill. I believe it was almost $20! While I did learn an important lesson when it comes to the specials board, I still think they ought to have warned me that I was ordering the most expensive thing on the menu...by almost double.

Raw soft shelled crab are usually around $6/each in the store. $20 for a prepared dish (especially if it has 2 crabs) seems entirely reasonable.

Mhays wrote:
Guessing makes it hard to stay in your budget. While I'd agree, it's like having your budget on your sleeve when servers list the prices - I do think cost should somehow be communicated.

Could not agree less with the bold portion of this. I don't give two turds if someone knows what my "budget" is, and nor would I give two turds if that person had any issue with what my budget is. (BTW - if they knew what my budget was for good service, they'd be refilling my water glass constantly) If shrimp in red curry is 15.95 for no discernible reason, then I don't want it. It is, in fact, out of my budget, but not really my budget for money, per se - it's more out of my budget of sanity. I cook a LOT. I know how much stuff costs. The green coconut milk curry I made last night would EASILY rival the same at TAC. Cost? Probably around 5.00 for about three orders worth from Tac. Now, if I'm out on the town, I certainly have no issue with paying for a meal in a nice place, but I do know EXACTLY when something is priced incorrectly, and I will not purchase it - it doesn't matter one way or another who may think it's out of my monetary budget or not. If I ask how much something is, it's because I need to know right off the bat if there is any sort of value, or if it's overpriced simply because the sheeple will pay for it. That being said, I have encountered things that I would have gladly paid more for. Right off the bat, Tac's panang curry with fried noodles come to mind. Some thai restos label this "khaosoy." After eating their version, which may have been 7.95 or so, I said to my d/c that I would have easily been happy paying 15.00 for that. Ex 2:Good saba at a sushi bar. I'd pay 5.00 a slab for each piece of nigiri. Can't really get good fresh saba around here far as I know. 3. When they are ON, I think I'd happily pay about 3.00 more for a large UJ tip- (shhhh.) Maybe it's just how I look at things, but I have money, and I intend to keep it that way. I'll gladly pay up for anything good - if it's worth it. Seems like nowadays, there are a whole lotta restos getting away with high prices for food that is not bad.
[/soundinglikemyoldman]

seebee wrote:The green coconut milk curry I made last night would EASILY rival the same at TAC.

So when would you like to have us over?

as a server, this situation is a bit of a quandry. at least it was for me. as it has been said, some customers prefer to know the prices of off-menu items, and personally i would feel more comfortable if you knew too. while on the other hand, others become mildly annoyed to pretty pissed off if you slip in a "just to let you know mp of toro is $10/piece right now." i've had alot of ppl just say straight out, "i don't care," and even one dude say "do i look poor to you?".

however, with pricey specials i couldn't help it. even with the chance of them being put off, i always somehow slipped in the price. i also tried to say it at the same time i would mention/describe the special. once i forgot to and nervously told the table after they ordered...they scaled back from 15 pieces of otoro to 3. i felt really bad.

if the server doesn't tell you just ask. i think any server would rather divulge the price than deal with an angry customer around tip time.

I'm with you, cereal - I don't think it's fair for the management to put this responsibility on the server. There should be some reference where the server can show the prices rather than have to sound like a shopping list.

Mhays wrote:I'm with you, cereal - I don't think it's fair for the management to put this responsibility on the server. There should be some reference where the server can show the prices rather than have to sound like a shopping list.

Agreed. Even on this side of the fence, that's the ideal solution.

geli wrote:We didn't complain

A polite inquiry is not complaining and, it is just possible, it was a simple math error on the part of the server.

For my part, I find Spoon Thai one of the very best dollar per deliciousness values in Chicago.

Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:For my part, I find Spoon Thai one of the very best dollar per deliciousness values in Chicago.

Enjoy,
Gary

This gives me an idea for starting a new thread. I am VERY familiar with the "Best lunch for 5.00" thread , but I might take it one step further in finding values in and around our fair city. Maybe tomorrow am. Too tired tonight from working on the house. Whoa. Way past my bedtime as it is. I gotta stop working for other people. Waking up at 5 ain't all it's cracked up to be.

i_like_cereal wrote: "just to let you know mp of toro is $10/piece right now."

As a former server in a posh restaurant, bartender, and worker in the industry for several years, I can see this statement EASILY being taken the wrong way by a very subtle inflection in a server's voice even if not intended by the server. I would lose the "just to let you know" part, and offer the "Mp of toro is 10.00 per" as a non-chalant snippet of info while distributing the first round of drinks, or taking orders for the first round of drinks.

And if some dude seriously asked me if he looked poor, then I would open the flood gates. Maybe something along the lines of, "Well, most of the really wealthy people are very subdued, and try NOT to be noticed, but I don't think it would be very professional of me to answer your question. It's really none of my business." Chances are, that person's D/C would understand your comment, but the gentleman would not. If he did, who cares? The first part of the comment was on the verge of over the edge, but the second part ended up being the "Yes sir, Massa sir" comment that a customer like that was longing for. Business as usual. People like that really need to think they are not a dime a dozen. Have them serve in a restaurant for one week, and they will quickly understand that the "I'm better than you cuz I am eating and you are serving" attitude is just so tired and played out - they might as well be wearing parachute pants and members only jackets.

ndgbucktown wrote:Seebee, you've described an enviable part-time job, not a pleasant evening.

I actually did that once. I had ordered szechwan noodles at a Chinese place where the server insisted their noodles were hand made and very authentic. I got a plate of badly overcooked Prince Spaghetti with Heinz Chilli Sauce on it.

About a week later I was at Katy's for some noodle therapy and bought an extra order to go. I dropped half the order off (I'm not nuts!) at the horrible place and showed it to the mgr, explaining to him "this is a handmade noodle, handmade does not mean you use your hand to take it out of the box"

NB I do not recommend employing this tactic at any restaurant where you ever expect to dine again.

Octarine wrote:About a week later I was at Katy's for some noodle therapy and bought an extra order to go. I dropped half the order off (I'm not nuts!) at the horrible place and showed it to the mgr, explaining to him "this is a handmade noodle, handmade does not mean you use your hand to take it out of the box"

NB I do not recommend employing this tactic at any restaurant where you ever expect to dine again.

You did not do that! Did they chase you out, tossing your Katy's takeout container at you?

Octarine wrote:About a week later I was at Katy's for some noodle therapy...

LOL!!!!!!!!!
It so is therapy. I've had Uncle John's therapy, Las Asadas therapy,
Tac Quick therapy...Now I have a word to describe the reason why every so often I'm hell bent on driving down to E 69th to the s/o....

Therapy session!

I completely HATE it when the server bothers to go through a lengthy specials description and can't be bothered to tell me how much it COSTS!
Especially if I have my family along, and I'm paying for alot of mouths,
I may be making decisions based on price
(ie., you can have the $19 steak, but not the $37 special...)
I hate having to ask the price, it makes me look cheap when I'm only trying to make ends meet, and enjoy whats truly a special evening out-
withought blowing a weeks worth of grocery money in the process....

Couldn't agree more irisarbor. It comes across as manipulative similar to:"Still or sparkling". No doubt there are idiot customers with the "Do I look poor?" comments, but the vast majority want to know the price-otherwise we could dispense with prices on menus alltogether.
Aside from the family situation, there's the first date, and business meetings with clients, etc, that make the whole thing awkward.
It's simply bad service, and it goes on all too often.

To return briefly to the OP's Spoon experience that kicked off the thread: I was at Spoon once and the curry on the specials board had the identical description as one on the menu. I believe there may have been a price listed, or the waitperson mentioned it, but the identical description caused me to ask if and how the 2 dishes were actually different.

It was explained to me that though both were seafood curries (or something like that) the difference was in the sauce. Very different ingredients, and a long, labor intensive cooking time. Not just the difference between chicken and shrimp, or kinds of shrimp.

In general, I do think that however a restaurant chooses to communicate its specials, e.g. on a card, oral recitation, Malaysian shadow puppetry, modern dance---it is incumbent on the establisment to communicate price information without being asked and in such a way as to continue to extend the feeling of welcome that, presumably, informs the rest of the customer experience, from decor to greeting, to service.

Personally, I always prefer a card I can refer to as I ponder the regular menu. The server may be able to memorize the list, but I don't see why I should have to.

In this, I tend to give a pass to small, immigrant family-owned restaurants where language, culture, etc. may be an issue.