Sunday Dinner, nice people who mean well at Green City Mkt

I got a burger from these very friendly folks serving wholesome food using market-fresh ingredients. They've got a stand in the SE corner of the market. The patty came from much-loved Heartland Piedmontese Beef, the bun from Bennison's, the lettuce and tomato from Kinnikinnick Farm. The whole equaled barely a fraction of the sum of its parts. Bun was cold, burger was seriously overcooked and devoid of needed salt, aioli was no better than Hellman's mayo.

This review is a word of caution solely about what these folks do at the Green City Market. They're professional culinary-school graduates who might very well turn out better stuff in their catering business.


Sunday Dinner Chicago website

I've found that generally, they produce excellent food, so perhaps an outlier (yes, I've been reading too many articles on polls) experience.

Had a wonderful meal at one of their dinners last year. Great people too.

Kennyz wrote: aioli was no better than Hellman's mayo.

Hey, don't be dissing Hellman's mayo.

I <3 Hellman's Mayo

KennyZ,

As a long time poster, I'm really surprised at you. You certainly have a right to post your opinion, but this is a sucky thing to do for 2 related reasons:

1. As you note, SDC does many things outside their stand at Green City - they have their events and their packaged sandwiches (inc. granola bars). Have you tried those?

2. How many times did you try their burgers? Just once? I'm frequently at the market for several reasons, including as a volunteer, and have had many a SDC burger and while I'm sure that I could pick out an isolated occasion, they are in most instances excellent.

I think that SDC is an excellent producer at the market and an excellent caterer - in fact, on many an occasion, I have sent business their way.

I think this topic is a GREAT example to why 'Chef's hate bloggers' (a current topic somewhere on LTH). I'm not sure if you've had more than one bad experience with them but it doesn't sound like it from your post. Give them a break...I'm sure places as great as Trotter's and as low as McDonalds have put out a poor meal or two but on average they're great. Throwing this group of culinary grads under the bus for a poor burger seems a bit harsh to me...but post how you want, it won't stop me from trying them.

MAG wrote:KennyZ,

As a long time poster, I'm really surprised at you. You certainly have a right to post your opinion, but this is a sucky thing to do for 2 related reasons:

1. As you note, SDC does many things outside their stand at Green City - they have their events and their packaged sandwiches (inc. granola bars). Have you tried those?

2. How many times did you try their burgers? Just once? For many obvious reasons, I'm at the market more than frequently and have had many a SDC burger and while I'm sure that I could pick out an isolated occasion, they are in most instances excellent.

I think that SDC is an excellent producer at the market and an excellent caterer - in fact, on many an occasion, I have sent business their way.

I'm surprised by your surprise. People use this forum to help them decide where to eat. My post, along with the thoughtful responses that come in, help them form a complete picture of people's experiences with Sunday Dinner, and help them decide whether or not to eat there. I have not levied any personal attacks on the owners or anyone else. I merely described a crappy burger I had, and tried to be descriptive about what I thought made it crappy. Apparently, you've had what you'd call a good burger, though you've said so without any helpful description of what made it good. Instead of criticizing my post, how about telling us what you think is good about the Sunday Dinner burger? Do they serve your burgers on warm buns instead of cold ones? Do they not overcook your burgers? Have your burgers been seasoned well? Or maybe you just prefer cold buns and overcooked, unseasoned burgers? As a long time poster, you probably realize that merely describing something as "excellent" is not very helpful.

People who read this thread can take both of our opinions into account, and make a decision for themselves about whether to spend their dollars at Sunday Dinner's stand in the market. Maybe the differing opinions here will even get some people to say "I really need to try that burger for myself and find out what's going on here." People can even search through my entire history of posts and discover that my tastes are completely unaligned with theirs, and the fact that I disliked my Sunday Dinner burger could serve as a ringing endorsement for the place. That's the great thing about LTH - transparency. Transparency also lets me search your reviews and discover a number of very negative ones that are based on but a single visit. I suspect that those restaurants are not places where you have a relationship with the owners, and appreciate that you have disclosed such a relationship in this case.

It was suggested by someone who read the thread, but did not comment, that I elaborate on my point about excellence. It's a flavorful burger that uses great ingredients. They are not in a position to ask how you want it done, so it may come out done more than you might like in a different setting. The flavors of the meat counteract that, but I will tell you that if you want a medium-rare burger, this is not the venue. Their granola bars are some of the best that I've had and they several different varieties that are fresh and flavorful.

See, I agree with JayZ, and had this in the back of my mind as a response to any flak that I would receive from this post. I would also note that I think that there's a matter of degree. Had there been a substantive post about SDC and then you posted your observations onto that thread, I wouldn't have been as bothered. But put yourself in the business' shoes, something that I did when I read it given that I own a catering company as well, they have a thread all to their own that says they're putting out a poor product and that observation seems to be based on one burger. I love lth.forum because many posters, including yourself Kenny, are thoughtful and deliberate, as opposed to those who post over on Yelp. And this is why, I felt that this post was unlike you and more like the Yelpsters.

Clearly, this is not a forum that should abide by the maxim if you can't say anything nice, etc. etc. However, if I'm going to post something negative, I have a sliding scale. If it's at a $500 and up meal and the food is not good, I feel that I have good cause to post even after trying only once - given the price, it better be pretty darn good. If the meal is $20.00 and under, the service was fine and there were no calamities, I'm willing to give someone a second chance before discussing them in this forum. Just my 2 cents, which in this economy is probably for less than a penny.

MAG,

I do not share your sliding scale. To me, if someone has a crappy hot dog at a hotdog stand, it's a data point I'd like to hear about. There are lots of hot dog stands in this city, and I appreciate it when people help me avoid choosing one I'll find disappointing. I'm not going to get another burger at the Sunday Dinner stand, especially after your helpful description of their constraints (thank you to the mystery person who privately encouraged you to share a useful bit of information, and helped you find a way to make explicit that you did not value my suggestion to do the same). So this is my one and only shot at offering what I think is a useful data point. There are other places to eat while shopping at the Market, and if I were looking at LTHForum to help me decide which to choose, I'd welcome whatever data points I could find. You and JayZ are certainly free to ignore such data points.

Kenny

Jayz wrote: Give them a break...I'm sure places as great as Trotter's and as low as McDonalds have put out a poor meal or two but on average they're great.

This is a perfect example of how great it is to be able to put LTHForum comments into context. JayZ thinks McDonalds and Trotters are great. I have had enough experience at both places to know that they're near the very bottom of the list of places I like to eat. I now know that our opinions are not likely to line up.

Throwing this group of culinary grads under the bus for a poor burger seems a bit harsh to me...but post how you want, it won't stop me from trying them.

not throwing anyone under anything. Just describing a burger.

Kenny, it was certainly not my intention to denigrate your request for additional information. I hadn't opened my email prior to getting a phone call, so that's why I referred to the other suggestion - it was a matter of timing, not respect. You're certainly welcome to your opinion. Perhaps, it's simply that I could strong empathize with SDC and perhaps your post will encourage others who've had good experiences with them to weigh in as I'm certain that there are many.

Kennyz wrote:

Jayz wrote: Give them a break...I'm sure places as great as Trotter's and as low as McDonalds have put out a poor meal or two but on average they're great.

This is a perfect example of how great it is to be able to put LTHForum comments into context. JayZ thinks McDonalds and Trotters are great. I have had enough experience at both places to know that they're near the very bottom of the list of places I like to eat. I now know that our opinions are not likely to line up.

Throwing this group of culinary grads under the bus for a poor burger seems a bit harsh to me...but post how you want, it won't stop me from trying them.

not throwing anyone under anything. Just describing a burger.

At their price point and the type of food and service each gives (Trotters and McDonalds) they are great, they seem to have done well up until now.

And you weren't just describing a burger...you were suggesting to others that they skip this stand entirely because of one bad experience, that's what I can consider poor judgement. I had a poor dish at Alinea but I went on to try the other 25 courses and enjoyed it more than anything....I didn't go on to say "Alinea has a very qualified staff but fails to hit the mark on each dish, I recommend that no one step foot in this place".

I found both Kenny's original post and the last line of MAG's first post very helpful, and all the information I need to want to try them out sometime (both at the market and as caterers).

Kenny fully disclosed the fact that he had just tried them once and that while disappointed with the burger, he admired what they were trying to do. That's a positive from someone with his industry experience. MAG gave a fuller picture of what they do off-market. That's value-added and based on a totally different set of experiences. Also useful.

I don't see the need for calling out specific posters by name and posting history constructive except for friendly digs or requests for specific clarification. As Ebert quotes Godard, the best way to criticize a movie is to make another movie. The best way to counter a post is to make another post with new insight and substance based on experience. We're debating posts here, not posters.

Jayz wrote: At their price point and the type of food and service each gives (Trotters and McDonalds) they are great, they seem to have done well up until now.

Our opinions about eating definitely seem unaligned. When I take into account the price category of these two restaurants, they are both right near the bottom of my "greatness" list. I also do not share what seems to be your belief that popularity is a key factor in determining where to eat. Olive Garden, Potbelly, Cold Stone Creamery, and tons of other extremely popular places are also at the bottom of my list.

And you weren't just describing a burger...you were suggesting to others that they skip this stand entirely because of one bad experience, that's what I can consider poor judgement

Fair enough. There may have been that subtle suggestion implied in my post. But so what? Who am I? I'm just a guy who ate what he thought was a crappy burger one time at a stand at the market. If, like I do, people use that data point as a reason to eat somewhere else, let them. More importantly, by posting about my experience, I encouraged others to respond with experiences of their own. We now know that there are at least 2 people who really like Sunday Dinner for catering and granola bars. Heck, this might even inspire me to look for those bars soon (Hey MAG, do I find the bars at Green City, and/or are they for sale elsewhere?). We also know that the Green City Market doesn't let Sunday Dinner cook burgers medium rare, the way many people like them. And we know that there are some McDonalds fans on LTH. This is all good, helpful stuff, and what a discussion forum is all about.

JayZ - how 'bout you go eat something at Sunday Dinner and tell everyone what you think of it? Or describe what’s good on the latest McDonalds menu for us. That would much more useful to people than multiple critiques about my posting judgment.

Based mostly on conjecture and MAG's opinion I too have recommended Sunday Dinner, because I know they use great ingredients and care about the food they are making (more than can be said about a lot of other caterers). I will continue recommending them, but this post does make me want to go try a burger (even though I know it's not necessarily a great indication of what they can do at a catered event). So, in that way, I don't think it's a bad post for Sunday Dinner.

I must say that the one time I was about to try SD at the Green City Market, I was turned off by the fact that their breakfast egg dishes all contained meat (I was attempting meatless...briefly). The granola bars did look scrumptious, but I wasn't in a cold breakfast mood.

I'm just a guy who ate what he thought was a crappy burger one time at a stand at the market

I think this, in general, everyone should keep in mind as they read blogs, professional reviews or boards like this. It's just one person's opinion - take it like that.

Kennyz wrote: Bun was cold, burger was seriously overcooked and devoid of needed salt...

I'm with you Kennyz. For what it's worth, I, too, tried this burger only once and found it to be overcooked and underseasoned (if not unseasoned). I applaud these folks' use of quality ingredients. I'm a big fan of Heartland Piedmontese Beef, but you still have to season and carefully cook it. I have no idea what Sunday Dinner is capable of in another setting, but that doesn't change my take on their GCM burgers.

MAG wrote: If the meal is $20.00 and under, the service was fine and there were no calamities, I'm willing to give someone a second chance before discussing them in this forum.

Sorry, I disagree with this one. If I recall correctly, my burger was 9 or 10 bones. For that kinda money, I expect a tasty Big Kahuna burger. As a result, one chance was all they get.

If it's at a $500 and up meal and the food is not good, I feel that I have good cause to post even after trying only once - given the price, it better be pretty darn good. If the meal is $20.00 and under, the service was fine and there were no calamities, I'm willing to give someone a second chance before discussing them in this forum.

Consistency of product, IMO, is a hallmark of quality, and inconsistency in any facet of a restaurant's operation is sure to lead to negative experiences that are open to critique. Of course, to take an opinion seriously, it's nice to contextualize it (one-time visitor, traditional kvetcher, son of owner, etc.), but I know that if I've had a negative experience at a place at any price point, and particularly one that's been recommended to me, I feel justified to comment on it and certainly not obligated to first return to see if they can get it right. (Although if I do and they do, I will then feel obligated to revise my commentary.)

Along the similar lines of positive/negative first experiences and the willingness to go back for more, I wanted to drop a note about my "experience" with Sunday Dinner Chicago related to their catering business. I was in search of catering for a large event for a dinner, and I was extremely excited about their approach to food and their initial enthusiasm about catering my event.

Granted, it took a lot of unreturned phone calls to make initial contact, but I was really excited about that first conversation. They turned around a proposal within a week of our initial phone contact, but it was a lot MORE effort to make that second contact (more months of unreturned phone calls) to revise the proposal to add additional details about food/rentals/etc. When I finally got that, I got a proposal that was almost 50% more per head than what we had previously discussed, to the point where I wondered if the budget conversation we had had months prior even registered on the revision of their proposal. Unlike Kennyz, who may think twice about an SDC burger (and I would do the same if my first experience was less than positive), I for some reason was relentless about trying to secure SDC for my event, and I hadn't even had any of their food! Ultimately, after my persistence must have gotten annoying, I got the story that their business was growing very quickly and that they could not focus on long term projects with their current staffing, so sadly I moved on.

I'm not sure what I was hoping to contribute to this thread by adding that little story, esp. since I never even got to the point of TASTING anything, so I can't even comment on the food! Maybe it's just that sometimes we do continue to hope for the best out of a business despite signs that indicate we should move on, and it still doesn't work out, so I don't fault anyone for commenting on their (potentially isolated) negative experience, because I understand why that might deter a return visit.

(And no, SDC was not the only caterer that blew me off. I just didn't expect it from a caterer on the smaller side that I actually hit it off with!)

Due to rules and regulations of the Green City Market, Sunday Dinner has to cook the burgers that they serve to medium - an internal temp of 140 degrees. Ground beef cooked to this temperature is always going to be a little on the dry side. I, for one, am willing to settle for a burger that is a little more cooked than I might like if it means that I can enjoy it in the park while shopping at the Green City Market.

I have no horse in this burger race (although that might be a poor image, now that I think of it). However, given Sholl's remark, I would make sure that my customers knew of this rule before they ordered to prevent the disappointment that several posters have noticed. For me, knowing this, I would pass by.

For those who feel that Kennyz should have tried the burger more than once, how often should he have ordered what was (to him) a tasteless burger before he can comment. That is why we have threads on which many people can weigh in.

GAF wrote:That is why we have threads on which many people can weigh in.

Amen. When I have a bad experience, I post about it in hopes that someone will go and prove me wrong - and, within reason, I make a point of trying things that pique my interest but that others on the board didn't like.

Hey MAG, do I find the bars at Green City, and/or are they for sale elsewhere?).

I've seen the bars at Intelligentsia on Randolph.

I was at Green City market this past Saturday and saw their stand. I wanted to buy a burger but they were closing up shop as I walked up. Glad to hear I'm not missing out on much. I wouldn't have liked the Hellman's Mayo either.

MAG wrote:Perhaps, it's simply that I could strong empathize with SDC and perhaps your post will encourage others who've had good experiences with them to weigh in as I'm certain that there are many.

I am an avid fan of Sunday Dinner and admire them not only for their culinary skills and point of view, but also because they are three of the greatest, most generous, friendliest people around.

1. I have had their burger at the Green City Market. It was great - flavorful, well-seasoned beef patty, on a warm bun. So there.
2. I have gone to many of their ephemeral, three nights-every-six-to-eight-weeks-only, private dinners over the past year. The menus are always well-thought out: seasonally-appropriate, thematic, and draws from many small, organic, artisanal producers here in the Midwest and other places. (Also always draws the most interesting, creative, worldly people).
3. I'm not sure why negative comments regarding their catering business were placed on this thread (shouldn't that have been in "Other Culinary Chat"? This thread, I thought, was about a burger). I have dealt with them on a catering opportunity that didn't materialize, and I have gone to several events that they have catered: they are always professional, respectful, and easy to deal with. I have recommended them to several people and will continue to do so. No one has ever said anything but raves.
4. Their prepared food line, Eat Green Foods, which includes, not just the granola bars, but also soups, salads, and sandwiches, are healthy, tasty, and fresh. I've seen them at Pastoral and Provenance, among others.

I have to speak up and defend Sunday Dinner to counter some of the negativity on this thread (based on ONE taste of a burger, and an off-topic catering NON-experience which really don't paint what the group is capable of accurately), and also because they are a small Chicago business doing admirable things with their focus on seasonality, sustainability, and organic food, which deserves to be supported. And, no, I'm not related to them in any way, or their PR person.

fusionfan wrote:

MAG wrote:Perhaps, it's simply that I could strong empathize with SDC and perhaps your post will encourage others who've had good experiences with them to weigh in as I'm certain that there are many.

I am an avid fan of Sunday Dinner and admire them not only for their culinary skills and point of view, but also because they are three of the greatest, most generous, friendliest people around.

1. I have had their burger at the Green City Market. It was great - flavorful, well-seasoned beef patty, on a warm bun. So there.
2. I have gone to many of their ephemeral, three nights-every-six-to-eight-weeks-only, private dinners over the past year. The menus are always well-thought out: seasonally-appropriate, thematic, and draws from many small, organic, artisanal producers here in the Midwest and other places. (Also always draws the most interesting, creative, worldly people).
3. I'm not sure why negative comments regarding their catering business were placed on this thread (shouldn't that have been in "Other Culinary Chat"? This thread, I thought, was about a burger). I have dealt with them on a catering opportunity that didn't materialize, and I have gone to several events that they have catered: they are always professional, respectful, and easy to deal with. I have recommended them to several people and will continue to do so. No one has ever said anything but raves.
4. Their prepared food line, Eat Green Foods, which includes, not just the granola bars, but also soups, salads, and sandwiches, are healthy, tasty, and fresh. I've seen them at Pastoral and Provenance, among others.

I have to speak up and defend Sunday Dinner to counter some of the negativity on this thread (based on ONE taste of a burger, and an off-topic catering NON-experience which really don't paint what the group is capable of accurately), and also because they are a small Chicago business doing admirable things with their focus on seasonality, sustainability, and organic food, which deserves to be supported. And, no, I'm not related to them in any way, or their PR person.

I don't think anything that's been posted on this thread has been inappropriate. There has been praise and criticism, both backed up -- in most instances -- with specific examples, which is much appreciated.

Threads are not tightly moderated in these forums. Instead, they are allowed to follow the natural flow of discussion. Moderator intervention occurs only when they veer way off-course. Personally, I thought the post about their catering provided relevant context to the overall discussion, just as I thought your comments about their prepared food line also did. Neither were about the burgers, per se.

It's very unlikely that we're all going to agree about anything that's discussed here. That's the immutable nature of message forums. The diversity of our opinions is a good thing, I think. Though, sometimes, we just have to agree to disagree and move on.

=R=
for the moderators