Alinea or Moto

Narrowed it down to two places-taking my dad to Chicago in June for his birthday, I want him to have the best dinner he's ever had. Which one of these two places should I choose?

There are literally hundreds of posts on each - I'd suggest reading through previous posts and decide from those what kind of experience you want - it comes down to wanting a traditional-with-a-twist experience or an expand-what-i-thought-food-was experience.

Elrushbo, you must be really indecisive, you've posted this same post -- in one form or another -- several times on several different forums. Not sure that you'll receive any better advice than that which was given in reply to your chowhound inquiries, but let me say this:

If you want to give your dad (presumably an older man) one of the best and most satisfying meals of his life, save yourself a few hundred dollars and take him to Gibson's, Chicago Chop House, Gene & Georgetti's, or the like for a nice slab of prime beef. I've seen you mention elsewhere that you're taking him to the Cubs game. And what better complements a day at Wrigley Field -- a nice slab of red meat or space-age food at a place like Moto? (This is meant to be a rhetorical question.)

I don't mean to offend all of you Alinea and Moto lovers out there, but there is something to be said for keeping it simple, especially when older folks are involved. That said, I don't know your father's specific tastes -- he very well may enjoy a place like Moto. Based on what I've read, I'd probably go with Alinea.

I have been to both within the past six months or so.

I prefer Alinea. The quality and taste are superior.

Both places have first class service.

Both rooms are about the same.

Moto may be more creative, but there were definitely some hits and misses along the way.

Moto reminds me of an early version of Charlie Trotter's. It is still trying to find its way.

I thoroughly enjoyed Moto, but I just thought Alinea hit on more dishes in terms of taste.

I note that these are two of my favorite Chicago restaurants (along with Tru and Everest, which are a different type of food altogether).

Ron A. wrote:If you want to give your dad (presumably an older man) one of the best and most satisfying meals of his life, save yourself a few hundred dollars and take him to Gibson's, Chicago Chop House, Gene & Georgetti's, or the like for a nice slab of prime beef.

Not to contribute to your indecision, but I agree with RonA. I have not eaten at either of these places, and I probably won't (unless some generous soul wants to treat me). But, from everything I have read about Moto, I think your Dad might find it gimmicky and weird (edible menus? c'mon). Maybe not, but at those prices why chance it? As to Alinea, I enjoyed Grant Achatz's work at Trio, and think he is a remarkably creative chef. But, is your Dad the type of guy that would sit for hours eating dozens of tiny servings of exquisite creativity?

If your goal is to give your Dad a memorable meal (in a good way), everybody remembers the best steak of their life. I can recall the meal exactly, in vivid detail. In fact, I can probably give you the top 5 best steaks I have eaten, and I bet you my 83 year old mother can also (chances are we ate several of them together).

I would do like Ron A suggests, and save yourself a few hundred bucks and spend it on a better hotel, or better seats at Wrigley, and concentrate on finding your dad the best steak he will ever have in his life (that is, unless he doesn't like steak, in which case, never mind).

Have to disagree with the prior poster.

Where does this idea come from that all fathers are neaderthals who just want red meat?

My wife and I have taken my parents to some great places and they've loved them. My parents' (both of them -- including my father) think Naha is their favorite Chicago restaurant.

If the person's father likes creative food made by talented chefs and first class service, either Alinea or Moto would be an excellent choice. If I could afford $1,000.00 [maybe $800 depending on wine] for a meal for four, I would take my parents there in a minute.

The reality here is that the only person here who knows Elrushbo's dad is... Elrushbo.

So it's impossible for any of us to answer this question any better than it already has been at multiple boards. There are play-by-play posts here about dinner at all of the restaurants that you've considered, either they look to you like Dad would be tickled by the creativity, or they look like Dad would be annoyed out of his gourd by the preciousness. But I don't think anybody else can get you any closer to an answer at this point.

Me, I'd go to Avenues as representing the best of both worlds-- inventiveness that would still go over with a semi-conservative diner. But for some reason it's not in the playoffs this week.

DML wrote:Where does this idea come from that all fathers are neaderthals who just want red meat?

I don't believe I implied that at all. I was simply agreeing that the poster should consider alternatives before commiting to spend megabucks on something that he seems unsure about. The fact is, most people love a great steak (including my mother), but not everybody likes Fijian squid ink foam infused with imported Himalayan air, dusted with orchid pollen glazed cloud fungus and served on a bed of moon rocks . But, like Mike G said, only Elrushbo knows Mr. Rushbo. I just fear that he might be getting caught up in the Chowhound buzz about the city's most extravagant venues, and ignoring other perfectly viable options. Maybe not necessarily steak, but something more traditional than Alinea but equally well prepared, like Avenues, as Mike G suggested.

And you know, the other reality is... how fortunate to have such choices! There isn't a wrong one here. Pick one, forget about the others from that moment on, and have a great time without wondering what the others might have been like.

Looking for a special occasion restaurant, have had a tough time making up my mind. I have heard great things about both Avenues(someone whose opinion I trust says it's better than Alinea)and Tru, as well as Moto. Moto looks like it would be fun, but first and foremost I want the best tasting food. Ambience does matter to me, but food is #1 concern.

I don't want to be rude here, but what information are you still missing? I feel like you've been trying to make a choice forever.

In any event, I still say Alinea. I was there a few weeks ago for the fourth time and it's better than it's ever been.

Rushbo,

Your query today is simply a refinement of your earlier query several weeks ago. These topics have been merged to not only refresh your memory but to keep a coherent dialogue.

The decision of where to go really is yours to make. Roll the dice from an excellent field, then try your second choice whenever the next occasion allows. As Mike G commented earlier you are quite fortunate to have so many excellent choices.

We look forward to your report on whichever restaurant you do decide upon.

Regards,

i think that after you leave the cubs game, you should take your dad to salt and pepper diner on clark for a patty melt, hash browns and a chocolate shake.

if want, you can drizzle a little truffle oil on your hash browns and point a laser pointer at your shake.

Appreciate the advice(most of it, anyway). My dad is pretty open-minded when it comes to food, eclectic is a-ok to him(his words). He isn't one to get a steak(I am, Custom House is on my list for another trip). I sent him the website and reviews of Alinea, he is definitely ok with it, from what I've read here and other sites, I think he'll love the experience, and so will I. Going to Spring the night before, so it will definitely be a culinary weekend to remember. I think I'll try the other places in due time, I'm four hours from Chicago and go that way frequently. I definitely want to try Avenues after the remodeling (they will be closed July 1-10).

Can I resurrect this discussion?

DH & I have decided to hit one or the other this year and I would like to see what the current feeling is on each, or even opinions choosing one over the other.

Thanks!

Who's been to both?

(I've been to Moto and Trio in Achatz's day, but not Alinea.)

I've been to both and I'd say it's no contest: Alinea wins hands down. The only reason to choose moto is if being on the cutting edge is more important to you than good food. Moto was definitely the most interesting meal I've ever had--but far from the best. My opinion is that moto is defined by unremarkable food served in remarkable ways. To be fair, there were a few standout dishes at moto, but also a lot of duds. Alinea, on the other hand, delivered consistently excellent courses, sometimes served in remarkable ways, sometimes not. But on taste, Alinea leaves moto in the dust.

By the way, if the theme here is Adria-inspired dining, I'd throw Avenues into the mix. I've eaten there several times and always had a terrific experience. Indeed, the best meal I had at Avenues was better than the one I had at Alinea. The least good meal I had at Avenues was just as good as Alinea. The major drawbak to Avenues is the ambience, which is a little boring.

Mike G wrote:Who's been to both?

I've been to both within the past year. And while I have enormous respect for Cantu's zeal, energy and vision, it's no contest in my mind if you're strictly discussing the food. Our meal at Alinea was much more mature, refined, thoughtful and, quite frankly, better executed. At Moto I felt there were too many occasions where the funky techniques got in the way of the food instead of enhancing it. Alinea didn't escape this phenomenon altogether, but for the most part it was much less random and much more purposeful.

I've been to both and I agree with Dmnkly and give the nod to Alinea. Alinea's vision was more honed and as a result, the flavor or the execution of the food was not compromised in favor of mad scientist-chef technique. At Moto, I thought the scientific vision was paramount, and some dishes were just off the mark.

I've been to both and just felt like Moto was pomp and circumstance that didn't always have good food ideas behind it. Alinea was imaginative, interesting, and it really tastes great! To me-Alinea hands down.

This is slightly off-topic, but what's the consensus on how to pronounce Alinea? I originally heard "Al-i-NAY-ah" (soft "i"), but then I met someone who'd been there and they were saying "Ah-LIN-ee-ah"....?

abe_froeman wrote:This is slightly off-topic, but what's the consensus on how to pronounce Alinea? I originally heard "Al-i-NAY-ah" (soft "i"), but then I met someone who'd been there and they were saying "Ah-LIN-ee-ah"....?

The latter. It's the proofing mark that denotes the end of a paragraph.

Haven't been there, but I've always heard the latter pronunciation.

uh LIN ee uh

=R=

It sounds like Alinea would better meet our desires. Thanks for all the info (and I, too, was curious how to pronounce it!). What is the dress code?

I read up on Avenues, too. Sounds great. You all kind of put me on the fence between the two, but I think we'll stick with Alinea.

So, if we're only going once probably ever given our budget, I suppose we should go for the big guns and do the tour, right? Anyone know offhand what the wine pairings cost?

Thanks!

For men, jackets, absolutely, though I don't believe they enforce. Ties were about 50/50, I believe.

I've only done the tour, but I personally wouldn't want to do it any other way. Don't know about wine costs, but some have suggested ordering one with and one without, and sharing the wine.

I would definitely do the Tour de Force at Alinea, which runs $195 per person. Wine pairings, which I also recommend, are usually offered at 2 levels, standard and upgraded. Both levels are excellent, with the upgraded pours being slightly more hard to come by, in some cases. As it's been explained to me by Alinea staff, standard pairings are priced at about 2/3 of the price of the menu while the upgraded pairings cost about the same as the menu. With the Tour, it's also possible to order short-pours (which are slightly larger than half-pours). Not only is that a great option which is a bit less expensive, but it leaves a bit more room, too.

You can definitely call the restaurant in advance to ask them about any new information or additional specifics.

=R=

I'll offer a slightly dissenting view. I visited both within a day of each other recently:

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.ph ... 3&start=60

I'm not sure there's much of a point in going to either if you don't go firstly for their novelty and whimsy. I've had plenty of meals equally as tasty -- and I'm not making a statement about comfort food vs haute cuisine here; I mean that you can get equally well-prepared and enjoyable food at many, perhaps most, four and five star restaurants, places that are in a similar price category.

I can see why someone would say that Alinea is more mature. In some ways I think it is. But I think Moto provides a more whimsical experience that takes itself less seriously (in a good way, Alinea seemed downright somber) and also does a better job of using the changes in form to improve dishes rather than just giving you something different for different's sake. Also, I think that Moto is more mature in one sense -- in that it doesn't make flavor combinations overly complex to the degree that Alinea can tend to. There were at least a few dishes at Alinea that were just too complex, like taking every crayon in the box and scribbling them together until you just get a brownish-grey mess. I thought Moto did a better job of focusing the flavors and playing them off of each other.

One area where Alinea clearly did a better job and had me thinking they were more or less a toss up by the end was in variation throughout the meal. There was a sweet emphasis throughout the Moto dinner. Alinea had everything meticulously mapped out between differing flavors and intensities from dish to dish. That said, the best dishes from Alinea were probably the least novel and really pretty classic, like a truffle-potato combo, whereas at Moto their best dishes had very novel aspects to them.

So honestly, if I was going to choose one or the other, I would go with Moto. It's a more enjoyable (ie, less stuffy) environment, a more fun experience, and a more unique experience. Otherwise, I might choose a place like Trotter's, or even a more classic 4*, instead of Alinea. (I've still never had better service than at Trotters.)

I didn't choose the biggest tasting menu at either. Too much time. But it was obvious a lot of the show-stoppers at each were saved for those menus.

I'm always interested to hear when people call Alinea "stuffy". I've been there a bunch of times and have never had this experience. In fact, I would say that I've laughed more with the staff at Alinea than any other high-end restaurant I've been to, with the possible exception of Guy Savoy in Las Vegas.

Then again, I also don't understand how people leave Alinea hungry, so maybe I'm just missing something.

Alinea. Unrepeatable.

Over the past few weeks, I’ve been thinking a lot about Alinea, and what makes it a pinnacle dining experience. What I keep coming back to is the idea of unrepeatability.

In my head, I’ve been comparing the Alinea experience to that I’ve had at two other Chicagoland dining institutions: Le Francais of the old school and Charlie Trotter’s of the somewhat newer school.

Le Francais (in the old days, meaning 70s, 80s, and 90s – I haven’t been there in the new millennium) was in many ways a by-the-book French restaurant; the ingredients were fabulous, and many followed the Laws of French Cuisine that have been laid down by La Varenne and his heirs. The dishes served at this Wheeling landmark were pretty much identical to the same French dishes served in Paris or London.

Charlie Trotter has cookbooks out there. I’ve gone through several of them, and the idea seems to be that with the right ingredients and skills and a well-equipped kitchen, you can approximate the food of Charlie Trotter. It’s never as good as the real thing, of course, but you can come close to Trotter in the same sense that an asteroid may come “close” to Earth in the next fifty years (while still being hundreds of thousands of miles away).

With Alinea, the rules are out the window and there is no way you could hope to come close to building any of the plates that come across the table. Can you imagine an Alinea cookbook? Me neither.

I’m sure Achatz has been asked about the name of his place, and I’m not sure how he explains it, but to me it suggests a-linearity, something that is not in line with any specific tradition and that breaks with many culinary traditions not for mere effect but to create a new kind of dining experience, not one you will find anywhere else and one that is, in as many ways as possible, not repeatable anywhere else. In this sense, dinner there is like experiencing a work of art, a unique collection of sensations.

Like all art, responses are subjective, and one can recognize greatness without liking it much. Perhaps my tastes tend more toward simple presentation of high quality ingredients. At Alinea, my favorite dish in the tour was the waygu; my favorite at Moto was the strip steak with salsa-filled syringe; I’m noticing a trend a here.

My take on Alinea’s dinner was that it was visually stunning, an eating experience that challenged assumptions, broke down barriers, remapped my sense of the dinner table…but I was not that taken by the food. The overwhelming flavors were sweet and salty, and I found myself thrilling to the visuals but not nearly so knocked out by the actual flavors of the food. Intensity is, to me at least, generally a good thing, but some flavors seemed a touch too concentrated, too assertive, just too much. When you’re pushing limits, it is possible to push too far, and I fear this may have happened with some dishes. However, that does not mean I don’t think Alinea’s plates are not great art – I think they may very well be. They’re just not to my taste.

Hammond