Steakhouse etiquette

I'm a little upset over an unexpected experience last night at one of Chicago's great steakhouses, which will remain unnamed.

1. We called last minute and we were graciously worked in.

2. Split a salad, which was fine

3. Ordered a KC strip, charred MR, rib eye MR, extra crispy hash browns and creamed spinach. Everything was excellent.

4. We were both unable to finish our steaks and asked for them to be wrapped up, along with the hash browns. Waited quite a while...leftovers not brought out.

5. Split a dessert and had decaf capuccinos. Again, good. Leftovers still not brought out.

6. Finally got the check ($160 or so, plus gratuity) and had to ask the Captain, "where are our steaks?" Left a $45 tip and went home, very satisfied, but thinking that the staff must really be tired after The Restaurant Show.

7. Got home. Went into kitchen to admire midnight snack. The $38 or so dollar strip didn't make it into the package at all. No midnight snack. The rib bone and attached meat was not the same one we had earlier and I'll mention how we know this. Picture an entire bone in rib roast. The steak Donna had earlier actually had a portion of two separate rib bones. Sort of an "in between the ribs" cut. This one had a full, single bone. This was someone else's steak!

What I think happened was: Busboy got confused and gave leftovers to wrong people. When under pressure to produce food, grabbed some leftover steak from a break-down area or even the garbage, (forgetting that there were two steaks) threw somone else's hash browns into the container, and bagged it up. Unfortunately for me, Donna tossed the mystery steak.

When I called management today, they apologised profusely and offered a $50 gift certificate.

Just when you think you've seen and heard it all. Wouldn't it have been better for the Captain to have said, "Sorry, sir, we accidentally gave your leftovers away."?

I'm still a little miffed.

Any comments?

I think that's pretty terrible. I too would rather have someone own up to a mistake like that vs trying to rectify it with food that was possibly someone elses. I do think that it was nice that they did apologize. I'm curious though, how do you feel about the compensation that they offered? Do you feel it evens out the bad experience? Or do you feel that you'd just rather have had the apology and that was it?

Erzsi,

Hard to say. When I made the complaint call, I had in the back of my mind that they would probably offer some type of comp. I didn't expect a free meal for two and that's not what I was after. The Jr. manager did everything properly, just like the Manager's Training Manual describes. It wasn't his fault the staff dropped this one.

I guess I'll get over it. Leaves a bad taste, though.

I think as you say, some overzealous employee was playing CYA games and just did what he thought he needed to do to keep his job.

In the end I think the total tone of the restaurant is exemplified by how they treated you when you brought the attention to a manager who cares. You got a nice gift certificate, which was worth as much or more than the leftovers is my guess.

The thing about restaurants is that they require a chain of people to be on their game at every moment, every night, from the valet and dishwasher to the head chef or maitre d, and no matter how much management tries to instill quality, thing happen. This is unlike corporations where a bunch of employees can call in sick or surf the internet for an hour and generally no one gets hurt.

Imperfect experiences happen even at the best places including Alinea, Blackbird, and even Charlie Trotters in some form or another (or at least they have for me), but in the end I know that those restaurants are striving for perfection, and I honor the overall effort.

$50.00 is a nice gesture but all it does is gets you back into that establishment to spend more of your money, seeing how you spent $160.00 last night. As hard as it might be, the restaurant should have matched your last nights bill.

Seems unprofessional and a bit bizarre (can't say that I've ever been given someone else's leftovers). However, I think that the $50 gift certificate and the manager's handling of the complaint more than make up for what, in all likelihood, simply was a careless mistake by an overwhelmed busboy.

HI ER!

One of my friends used to work in a Chinese restaurant while in college. She observed people handing the waiter large quantities of food to pack up and take home. They would go to the rear, choose the smallest box and fill it, whatever didn't fit was tossed.

She never has anyone pack her food in restaurants. She has containers brought to the table and packs it herself. She has influenced me to do the same. It is really the only way to guarantee what you take home is really yours.

When I told this to one of my sisters, her eyes popped up wide, "I knew it. I never seemed to get all my food whenever I had food packed for me." She now packs her food at the table.

Anyway, if Donna hadn't tossed the steak, were you really considering eating it? Trim the edges and it is as good as new? I know I'd comfortably do it with family. I'm just not quite sure under your circumstances.

Best regards,

Well, since we are exchanging stories, I recently spent a lot of money at what some say is among Chicago's best steakhouses right now. The valet basically scraped the entire side of my car, which I noticed the next day and immediately brought to the establishment's attention. I know that valet services are independent contractors and such. However, the manager (who took 2 weeks and multiple calls to get back to me) acknowledged long-time, serious problems with the valet and said the hospitality group would be firing the company.

In the end, the message was, basically, take it up with the valet -- which I more or less expected. My concern, apart from the weeks it took for anyone to get back to me, is that the management knew it had a negligent (at best) valet service and knew that I (the guest) would have no reason to know that. I'm chalking it up to life in the big city. It's been a while since I've had something like that, whether it's vandalism, a parking ticket, etc.

PS, before you tell me, yeah, take it up with the valet I will let you know that I'm not naive. Valet services, parking garages, wrecking services, and similar businesses are not, as a matter of course, prone to give the "customer" the benefit of the doubt in such matters. It pays, in the long run, for them to stand firm on the status quo and force aggrieved car owners to avail themselves of the courts. Even someone for whom litigation is fun, free, and easy would realize that suing Acme Valet Company over a coupla hundred bucks in paint work makes no sense. Thus, Acme Valet's behavior is explained. On the other hand, the steakhouse should want to see me again, considering what little they know about me so far. Its behavior can be explained only by a disconnect between the company's best interests and its manager's slothful and misguided marshalling of resources.

JeffB wrote:It's been a while since I've had something like that, whether it's vandalism, a parking ticket, etc.

Even someone for whom litigation is fun, free, and easy.

Want to handle my "Use of hand held moblie phone" ticket?

Cathy2 wrote:HI ER!

One of my friends used to work in a Chinese restaurant while in college. She observed people handing the waiter large quantities of food to pack up and take home. They would go to the rear, choose the smallest box and fill it, whatever didn't fit was tossed.

She never has anyone pack her food in restaurants. She has containers brought to the table and packs it herself. She has influenced me to do the same. It is really the only way to guarantee what you take home is really yours.

I did this at a medium-level family restaurant (along the lines of Cheesecake Factory - not the offending restaurant) once, so etiquette was not an issue, but my waitress gave me a hard time twice. First, I asked for a box to "box" my own leftovers, and she asked if she could do it in the kitchen herself. I replied very politely, "I'd like to do it myself, thanks for offering." She replied w/ a tart, "Well, MAY I box your plate instead?" (Thinking to myself, "Didn't I just ask to box it out here?!?! Why are you asking me again?") She then made a big scene, left w/ a disgusted air and snort and ultimately brought me a box. I wasn't embarrassed, but my friends at the table were - who thought I was a weirdo for boxing my own leftovers and having to ask twice to do it myself. Aside from making sure you get all your leftovers, you can pick and choose what you'd like on your plate to be boxed up. That was seriously the weirdest experience "doggy-bagging" I'd ever had. I've often suspected that at some restaurants (particularly Chinese restaurants, where we always have a ton of leftovers to bag up) you don't always get all your leftovers.

As far as not receiving your correct meals - my siblings have had that on occassion as well (this time at Cheesecake Factory) Regarding astounding examples of poor food service: What's worse than receiving someone else's leftovers? Being served someone's munched on food at the table. I've read numerous accounts of serving staff serving the wrong dish to a table - the table has munched on it and then noticed "Hey this isn't my meal." The notified server then taking the "fork" out of the plate, turning to the table behind them and serving the "correct diner." Also, I've heard of baskets of fries having had multiple hands in them being taken from one table - "Oops it's the table behind yours." and served to the adjoining table. What are these waitstaff thinking?!?!

Cathy2 wrote:One of my friends used to work in a Chinese restaurant while in college. She observed people handing the waiter large quantities of food to pack up and take home. They would go to the rear, choose the smallest box and fill it, whatever didn't fit was tossed.

I believe this is possible, and folks have said it happened to them, so I believe it is real. But the practice of giving a patron less than all of their leftovers makes no sense whatsoever. After all, what possible motivation is there for the restaurant to adopt such a practice? Is it so you will get hungry again faster and return sooner? Maybe because the bigger boxes are so expensive, they'd be put out of business using them? ("We lose 5 cents on each customer! If it weren't for the volume, we'd go broke!") Or is it because their plumber told them that the garbage grinder "needs a really good workout" to keep it running properly? Alternatively, perhaps they get bulk rate discounts from their trash haulers. You see my point.

Maybe it's because the restaurants, in the spirit of Robin Hood, are redistributing the wealth behind the scenes, making sure each diner leaves with an equal portion of leftovers -- at any cost! This could help explain the lost episode of Fawlty Towers that was the OP's situation. I don't know about you, but I couldn't help seeing Manuel sneaking the steak out of the trash. Although Basil wouldn't have given you $50. You should feel flattered.

JimInLoganSquare wrote:I believe this is possible, and folks have said it happened to them, so I believe it is real. But the practice of giving a patron less than all of their leftovers makes no sense whatsoever. After all, what possible motivation is there for the restaurant to adopt such a practice? Is it so you will get hungry again faster and return sooner? Maybe because the bigger boxes are so expensive, they'd be put out of business using them? ("We lose 5 cents on each customer! If it weren't for the volume, we'd go broke!") Or is it because their plumber told them that the garbage grinder "needs a really good workout" to keep it running properly? Alternatively, perhaps they get bulk rate discounts from their trash haulers. You see my point.

This reminds me of a sketch in the late, great Dr. Katz animated series that used to air on Comedy Central. Katz is talking to one of his patients (as was the case with the show, really just an excuse for the patient to do stand up, errr... lay down, comedy), and the patient is recounting that his mother/father says, when they go to a steak restaurant, not to fill up on the bread and/or salad that comes with the steak, because "That's how they get you." And the patient/comedian says something to the effect of, "'That's how they get you?' What do you mean? Is there some market for half-eaten steaks that I'm not aware of? Like a guy in a trenchcoat on the corner who opens it up to reveal half-eaten steaks and says 'I've got a real good deal on these ribeyes.'" Funny stuff.

As a former waitress...who's seen many bad practices behind the scenes and in places where patrons wouldn't expect them...I believe there's very little malice in not packing an entire order. Sometimes it's because larger containers aren't available. It is much faster to grab any container and pack what you can, then dump the plate in a bus tub, than it is to find a properly sized container. Especially if searching for the container means you aren't serving some other table's food. Bigger boxes aren't more expensive but finding room to store a variety of box sizes can be a problem, too.

Often lax managerial oversight leads to unmotivated employees who are then prone to lots of horrible things...tasting food, making rude remarks about tables behind the scenes, and dumping food they're supposed to pack, especially if it's busy. Training good wait staff is a big, expensive, investment and a lot of restaurants don't do a good job. Properly packing left overs isn't often in the training manual.

I pack my own leftovers when ever I can.

Diannie wrote:As a former waitress...who's seen many bad practices behind the scenes and in places where patrons wouldn't expect them...I believe there's very little malice in not packing an entire order. Sometimes it's because larger containers aren't available. It is much faster to grab any container and pack what you can, then dump the plate in a bus tub, than it is to find a properly sized container. Especially if searching for the container means you aren't serving some other table's food. Bigger boxes aren't more expensive but finding room to store a variety of box sizes can be a problem, too.

Often lax managerial oversight leads to unmotivated employees who are then prone to lots of horrible things...tasting food, making rude remarks about tables behind the scenes, and dumping food they're supposed to pack, especially if it's busy. Training good wait staff is a big, expensive, investment and a lot of restaurants don't do a good job. Properly packing left overs isn't often in the training manual.

I pack my own leftovers when ever I can.

Oh, well, you would have to offer a serious -- and no doubt correct -- response to my stupid post, wouldn't you?

However, I think I see the solution here. If the problems really are (1) poor staff training, (2) time consumption to pack the box and (3) difficulty storing a lot of box sizes, and if, as you say, cost of boxes is not an issue, then here's an idea that ought to work: buy and stock only the "Extra Large" leftover boxes! Everything and anything goes in there, from a single meatball to a 32-oz steak with one bite out of it. In fact, that's how the restaurant should pick the right box size: Cook the largest meal you make, largest entree, largest side dishes, even a large salad. Then take one bite out of it and see what size box you need to pack all of it. Then buy them by the gross! No choosing, no need to stock a variety of sizes, and best of all, no excuses! Plus, this virtually eliminates any need to train the staff beyond saying, "Take the five seconds necessary to open the box, dump in the food, close the box and put it in a bag." Or, we could all just box our own food. Just a suggestion.

My feelings on this subject vary drastically depending on the restaurant, and I don't know that I could provide criteria. It's just a gut feeling. I almost feel like it's a rule that you have to walk out of a small, local Chinese joint with leftovers. But there are also times when I see people boxing things up in restaurants and it strikes me as tacky. Not to suggest that they don't have the right to do so, but just that... I wouldn't

I hate boxing my own food in a restaurant. I understand the reasons people do so, but for me they fall under the category of "things that are far less risky than any number of other things I have no control over and deal with regularly, and are too much hassle for the potential benefit". There are plenty of locations where it is, no doubt, perfectly appropriate, but there are too many places where dumping out plates in the dining room strikes me as overly detrimental to my neighbors' enjoyment of their meals.

Or is that assumed, within the context of this discussion?

Glad you shared this experience. I've stopped giving my car to valets, unless absoltely necessary. I don't like the idea that they can post a sign that absolves them of all responsibility. You've hit the nail the on head: they know it isn't worth most people's time to take them to court, especially for minor scraps and scratches.

JeffB wrote:Well, since we are exchanging stories, I recently spent a lot of money at what some say is among Chicago's best steakhouses right now. The valet basically scraped the entire side of my car, which I noticed the next day and immediately brought to the establishment's attention. I know that valet services are independent contractors and such. However, the manager (who took 2 weeks and multiple calls to get back to me) acknowledged long-time, serious problems with the valet and said the hospitality group would be firing the company.

In the end, the message was, basically, take it up with the valet -- which I more or less expected. My concern, apart from the weeks it took for anyone to get back to me, is that the management knew it had a negligent (at best) valet service and knew that I (the guest) would have no reason to know that. I'm chalking it up to life in the big city. It's been a while since I've had something like that, whether it's vandalism, a parking ticket, etc.

PS, before you tell me, yeah, take it up with the valet I will let you know that I'm not naive. Valet services, parking garages, wrecking services, and similar businesses are not, as a matter of course, prone to give the "customer" the benefit of the doubt in such matters. It pays, in the long run, for them to stand firm on the status quo and force aggrieved car owners to avail themselves of the courts. Even someone for whom litigation is fun, free, and easy would realize that suing Acme Valet Company over a coupla hundred bucks in paint work makes no sense. Thus, Acme Valet's behavior is explained. On the other hand, the steakhouse should want to see me again, considering what little they know about me so far. Its behavior can be explained only by a disconnect between the company's best interests and its manager's slothful and misguided marshalling of resources.

If I'm paying $40 for a steak that I cannot finish, I find no shame in taking it for breakfast the next morning.

YourPalWill wrote:If I'm paying $40 for a steak that I cannot finish, I find no shame in taking it for breakfast the next morning.

I think everyone agrees on that point, although I think we'd prefer not to have to dump our own leftovers into a box in the middle of the dining room. It's uncouth-feeling, at least in a place where you'd pay $40 for an entree. And why? Because an elegant dining room is a small theater, where you can replace the concept "acting" with the concepts "waiting" and "serving." And when you break that fourth wall, there is no going back -- i.e., as soon as the waiter says, "Hey, take care of boxing this up yourself, 'pal'" (or, read that as "asshole"), then at that point, the illusion is broken. And I think it's wrong to break that fourth wall in that way, at least at a place where you are paying that kind of money. Of course, your waiter may well think you are an asshole, or have some class warfare thing going on in his head, whether or not he says it; you can't control that. But making you box up your uneaten food removes all doubt; you are just a food consuming pig/machine. The machinery is exposed. How Po-Mo! But I hate Po-Mo, and restaurants are not Po-Mo. A patron should be taken care of from beginning to end, and the illusion should be maintained. That is why we go out to nice (i.e., expensive) restaurants. Bring down the price, and I wouldn't hold the place to that same standard, of course.

I was recently at an Italian chain known for its large portions with 2 friends. At the end of the meal we had some pasta and some meat remaining. The waiter asked if we wanted it wrapped, and one of my friends and I spoke up. My friend wanted some of the pasta, but no meat, and I was happy with both. I said to the waiter, "You can give me all of the meat, but split up the pasta...I don't need the huge portion"

Even though the waiter was standing there when my friend said she wanted some of the pasta, too, he dumped most of the pasta, and only brought leftovers to me. My friend asked, legitimately IMHO, "What about my pasta?" and he immediately had the kitchen cook up a half portion (which was all we'd ordered in the first place). I was impressed and appreciative. It was an honest mistake on his part (and I would have been more than happy to give her the pasta in my doggy bag), but he made up for his mistake.

Tonight, while dining at Salam, I took a break to visit the restroom near the very end of my meal. Upon returning to my seat, I noticed that the waiter had cleared and cleaned my table. When he saw the look of surprise on my face he apologized profusely and insisted that I sit while he prepared an entirely new meal. Water, pickles, bread, soda, salad, hummous, and shawerma. I could only manage a few bites more, as I was feeling quite full.

With a smile on his face, he then proceeded to package the large quantitiy of food remaining, even throwing in a small bag of fresh bread.

I am a regular customer at Salam, but I bet that he would extend the same courtesy to anyone.

E.M.

JimInLoganSquare wrote:How Po-Mo! But I hate Po-Mo, and restaurants are not Po-Mo.

I found your post insightful, but I need to be brought up to speed on what Po-Mo means.

Post-Modern

Dmnkly wrote:Post-Modern

Now, Dom, did you know that before you googled? Because I sure didn't before I did.

Hammond

I am better than Google! I rule! I, I ... uh, well ... All right.

Anyone ever think about how if you have to wait an extra 10 minutes for a doctor's appointment, you don't ask for a free check-up, but at a restaurant if the reservation is off a few minutes, you immediately expect a comp.

I have absolutely no affiliation with the restaurant business, unless you count my five years in high school sling pizza, but I am a convinced that their is a special entitlement of diners brewing out there.

I know it's a service business, but I feel like diners nowadays are too demanding. Any minor perception of a slight, and people feel like they are owed a whole meal. No other place in life do we expect such treatment.

Well, despite Jim's prognostication, I've taken leftovers home from a restaurant maybe once or twice in my life and can't imagine ever doing so again. (The most recent instance was actually fairly recently at Spacca Napoli, and the next day it was awful.)

I just try not to order more than I can eat. Restaurants with portion sizes that seem designed for leftovers kinda piss me off, as does the occasional affectation of hurt when I say "no" to a waiter's inquiry. Food is an adjunct to the social experience of dining out for me. (I should observe that, as someone who lives alone, I almost never cook in batches either. My distaste for leftovers isn't solely restaurant-based.) But for all the reasons that have been mentioned as things that can go wrong, and more, it isn't worth it to me.

I will admit that I've been tempted, should I return to Moto, to ask, "I'm sorry, I just can't finish this frozen carrot puree globe -- could I get some frozen nitrogen so I can enjoy it tomorrow?"

MJN wrote:Anyone ever think about how if you have to wait an extra 10 minutes for a doctor's appointment, you don't ask for a free check-up, but at a restaurant if the reservation is off a few minutes, you immediately expect a comp.

I don't know anybody who expects a comp for being made to wait ten minutes in a restaurant. But maybe I'm lucky. I take your point that people are sensitive in restaurants, but I think you exaggerate.

Personally, I think the reason for the sensitivity is that being in a restaurant--being fed, esssentially--reawakens our need for being coddled that we had the last time we were fed, i.e., when we were babies. A restaurant that fails us is like a bad mother. Bad mother make baby angry. I say this not pejoratively at all. It's just human.

But if you want to keep the analogy in the doctor-patient realm, I think a more apt one to being given someone else's leftovers is having a doctor diagnose you based on someone else's xrays. In which event, you've got a case for more than a comp!

I think the big distinction is that most people like going to restaurants, and most people don't like going to the doctor.

A wait at a restaurant can ruin the experience. A wait at the doctor's office is a nice -- albeit temporary -- reprieve.

This shouldn't need stating, but do note that the reason your expectations differ with a doctor and a waiter is because the stakes are so much higher with a doctor's office visit than with dinner in a restaurant.

Assuming they don't give you food poisoning, the worst a restaurant can do to you is provide food you don't like to eat, or move too slowly, or be rude to you, with the result that you don't come back. I believe this lack of gravity translates one-to-one into the basic lack of patience on the customer's part. My presence in a restaurant is (usually) entirely voluntary, there is a lot of competition, and the stakes are low, meaning I therefore, right or wrong, expect a lot from the staff -- as do others. The restaurant needs me a lot more than I need the restaurant.

One can be more or less obnoxious about it, of course, and there is no excuse for being rude or combative or expecting a "big payoff" in the form of comps for minor inconveniences, but I think it is clear that expectations for service, including prompt service, can reasonably be set fairly high in a restaurant. That is, in proportion to the cost of the service -- I might be more inclined to seek a comp at Alinea for the same sleight I would ignore at Bojangles.

A doctor or nurse, by contrast to a member of a restaurant's staff, very often has your life in his or her hands. A doctor or nurse can, quite literally, kill you through negligence or incompetence. Accordingly, I don't go to negligent or incompetent healthcare providers. However, even though I am not sweating bullets in the waiting room from the fear that my doctor is going to kill me, by the same token, I do not want my doctor to hurry through my appointment just to make sure he or she is not 10 minutes late for the next patient in line. That is also why I don't complain or ask for a discount or whatever if the doctor is taking a little extra time with the patient ahead of me. The gravity of the possible negative outcomes dictates a more relaxed and accepting attitude on our parts regarding the timing of the service or other non-substantive parts of the doctor's office experience. I need the doctor a lot more than the doctor needs me.

On the one hand, I demand less from the doctor with regard to the non-substantive parts of the service (e.g., timing for non-emergency care), simply because the doctor is providing a necessary, non-elective service that ultimately may be a matter of life and death (or at least my long term health and happiness). On the other hand, I demand more with regard to the non-substantive parts of a restaurant dining experience just because the value of the service is lower, the impacts are less (and of limited duration) and I can take it or leave it as I wish.

In fact, I could probably argue that features of a doctor's service that are non-substantive, such as timing for non-emergency health care, are substantive in a dining room context. Or at least I could argue there is a continuum between the two ends of the substantive/non-substantive distinction, with much more at a restaurant falling toward the substantive end of that spectrum. But that would take more brain power than I can muster right now.

Actually, I haven't had to wait in a Dr's office much lately at all. Maybe they are getting better at scheduling? Of course, when I call today for something I need to get done, and the next available is 3 July, I suppose I'll be waiting after all... just not in the office.