Italy

I will be traveling to Italy next month. We will be visiting Milan, Venice, Florence, and Rome. I am wondering if anyone can recommend restaurants in any of those cities. I know it is a broad request, and I have been doing lots of reading on my own, but I thought who better to ask than you all!
I figured Antonius might be able to chime in on this one!

GinoO,

I can speak for only Rome, and specifically for only the Trastevere neighborhood, but I really liked Augustarello (don't have an address but it's on Piazza de'Renzi). Our landlady described this as the "real Roman" food, which I assume it was: very fresh and simple, with dishes changing regularly and, as I recall, no written menu -- the server just tells you what they have. We had bucatini all'amatriciana and rabbit in some tasty brown sauce; not a fancy place, but probably my favorite of the trip.

And now, I cede the floor to Signore Antonius,

Hammond

You shouldn't miss Volpetti in Rome. It is a gourmet deli that carries many Italian signature food items, ranging from prosciutto, fresh seafood salad, a plethora of cheeses, olive oils, balsamic vinegars and olives, etc. Service is impeccable and the owner encouraged customers to try anything he/she wants. This store has all the ingredients for you to pack a perfect Roman picnic lunch. I remember that it's located pretty near Tiber, so you can buy your lunch, go sit along the river and do as the Romans do.

Volpetti
Via Marmorata, 47
00153 Rome ,
Italy
Tel: 011-39-06-574-2352
http://www.fooditaly.com

P.S. Do not miss the plethora of gelato stores all over Italy! I had at least one every day I was backpacking throughout the country!

I'm jealous you will be spending such extensive time in Italy!

All of the restaurants I'm going to recommend are in the Trestevare area as well. I do not have the addresses with me right now, but will add them when I get home later.

Da Gildo

Ponte Sisto

Fogaccia Bogaccia (excellent Roman pizza)

Enjoy!

I assume you've seen this,which has all the wisdom I have, for one, on this subject?

Hey, Gina...

Here's an old list I sent to a friend a couple of years back. It's culled from favorites over my dozen or so visits and my folks 40(!) or so visits. We're creatures of habit when it comes to Italy, so despite the number of trips this isn't based on a massive broad survey of the cities, nor are any of these necessarily THE BEST in the city... in fact some are here because there are a couple of great dishes that satisfy a craving... it's just the places that we've fallen into over the years and liked enough to keep coming back to. It's also a fairly good mix of famous guidebook places and little hole-in-the-wall joints we randomly walked into. Rome and Florence are below. I have Venice as well, but I have to find that one, so I'll post again shortly.

Rome Eats

Ristorante dal Toscano
Via Germanico 58/60
06 39 725717
These guys are near the Vatican, and they're an institution. I realize it seems silly to send you to a place with "Tuscan" in the name while you're in Rome, but I've never thought of this place as Tuscan. There are plenty of Tuscan dishes, but if I recall, a ton of Roman foods as well... more tomato, a number of baked pastas, etc. etc. Just dynamite. They also have some exceptional prosciutto, hand-sliced. Everything here is fantastic. It's a landmark, and with good reason, but fame doesn't appear to have ruined it.

Ristorante Sant' Eustachio
Piazza Sant' Eustachio
Near the Pantheon, it's one of our faves. Casual lunch, classy but not crazy fancy dinner, everything is awesome. Of particular note are the fried zucchini blossoms (when in season, usually stuffed with mozzarella and anchovies), the Carciofi alla Giudea (Jewish-style fried artichokes... hoooooooo, buddy. Pan fried under a brick and crispy. Best artichokes anywhere), and they make a mean Osso Buco. When they have poached pears for dessert, they're also great.

Le Cave di Sant' Ignazio
Piazza Sant' Ignazio?
Also in the neighborhood of the Pantheon. This place is all about the antipasti. Everything else is great, too, but it's all about the antipasti. If you ask them to bring antipasti, they bring it... and bring it... and bring it. And when you've filled yourself seven times over, they come by and ask what you'd like to order. The antipasti are all very simple... some fresh mozzarella, stuffed tomatoes, marinated zucchini and eggplant, mushrooms, etc. etc... but they're just perfect. And it just keeps coming. This place also falls under the "everything is good" umbrella, but I seem to remember that in particular they did some great fish.

Random Pizza
Do yourself a favor and just get some pan pizza at some point. There are all kinds of little places that sell pizza from a window on the street. It's usually in these large rectangular pans that they'll then cut down and wrap in paper for you to walk away with. In particular, I'm a fan of the potato pizza, but it's all fantastic.

Florence Eats

Trattoria dei Tredici Gobbi (or just 13 Gobbi)
Via del Porcellana, 9R
055 284015
This is quite possibly our (meaning the Armato clan's) favorite restaurant in Florence. It's not cheap eats, but it's not super pricey, either. Entrees in the $25 range, maybe? It's fairly casual. It's very cozy and boisterous and the food is DYNAMITE. Among favorites are the Pappardelle sull'Anatra (fresh wide, flat ribbon pasta with a duck ragu) and the Tagliata all'Aceto Balsamico e Rucola (amazing grilled steak, sliced, dressed with balsamic vinegar and topped with some arugula). The latter wasn't on the menu the last time we were there... it had been replaced by another tagliata... but I asked and they were happy to prepare it. I've had the latter dish every single time I've been there. I just can't pass on it. But I've had a number of different primi, as well as wandering forkloads of other secondi, and there hasn't been a single dish that's failed to impress. They also have a house sparking water that's borderline volcanic in its effervescence. Good stuff all around. The place is just off the NE corner of Piazza Ognissanti, which opens on the North bank of the Arno, about a 5-10 minute walk West of the Uffizzi. They do tend to book up, so calling in a reservation, especially on the weekends, isn't a bad idea.

Leo in Santa Croce
Via Torta, 7R
055 210829
This is a cute little joint where we like to stop for lunch a lot. Again, fairly casual, very clean, with lots of horrible art on the walls. It's great. Of particular note is their Tonno con Fagioli primo, which is by far the best tuna and white beans I've had anywhere... and I LOVE tuna and white beans. I'm not 100% certain of the address and phone, so don't trust them. It's about 20-30 paces directly West of Piazza Santa Croce (which is just a few minutes walk East from the Duomo). There are three parallel streets that lead West from the piazza (opposite end from the cathedral), and I believe it's the Northernmost one, but it could be the center one. Either way, you can see the sign from the piazza.

Trattoria Buzzino
Via dei Leoni 8R
055 2398013
This is another favorite traditional trattoria, though more of the cheapy hole-in-the-wall variety than Leo. There are maybe 10 tables in the place. I basically go here for two dishes. They have my favorite Penne alla Carretierra (varies by region, but here a light tomato sauce that is VERY oily, VERY garlicky and VERY spicy) and an especially good Crostini alla Toscana (traditional Tuscan crostini, topped with a hot chicken liver concoction). Everything else is very good. Refined is not a word I'd use, but just damn tasty. It's right by the Palazzo Vecchio... on the East edge of the palace. A good one in a neighborhood that's filled with some less-than-good touristy restaurants.

Buca Lapi
Via del Trebbio, 1R
055 213768
This place is a Florentine institution. It's a basement place that's not crazy fancy, but is definitely in that direction. Men certainly don't need jackets, but one would definitely be appropriate, and it's possible to underdress here. I think it's pretty pricey, but I don't remember. They basically do extremely good versions of traditional Tuscan, and in particular they're known for the Bistecca alla Fiorentina. If you're looking for a fancier night. The address and phone are definitely good. I believe it's pretty close to Santa Maria Novella (right by the train station).

Trattoria Garga
Via del Moro, 48
055 2398898
I've actually never been here. But I mention it because I've read a number of very favorable things and I've been wanting to try it for quite some time. They're roughly in between Piazza Goldoni (on the North bank, in between Piazza Ognissanti and the Uffizzi) and Piazza Santa Maria Novella.

La Casa del Prosciutto
Somewhere in the hills above Fiesole
The location is not a joke. This is if you're up for an adventure. La Casa del Prosciutto is this little country restaurant that does, among many other things, an incredible Bistecca alla Fiorentina. It's tucked into the hills outside of town, and we haven't been there for probably 15 years. I would LOVE to go back. The tricky thing is that you either need to have a car, or it's a looooong cab ride. My father says he remembers it being about 30 minutes from Fiesole, but my mother thinks it was a little closer. Maybe 45 minutes from the main historic area of Florence. Fiesole itself might be a neat place to visit. Though I don't remember it, I understand there's a neat cathedral, as well as a very good Etruscan museum. Fiesole, evidently, was really the medieval center of the city before the Renaissance, from my understanding. Anyway, though I can't 100% vouch for it since it's been so long, it's definitely a fun off the beaten path place that would get you out of the touristy areas. And the food is fantastic.

Gina,

I'm yet to have been to Venice and it's been a long time since I was in Milan. I'm not a big fan of Florence, though it is of course spectacular, and much prefer Siena. But I should mention that La Garga, mentioned in the previous post by Dom, I visited quite some time back and it was excellent (I wrote something about it in the thread on Rome and Florence linked to above).

For some additional specific restaurant suggestions, I suspect Choey might have some excellent ones to add to the impressive list from Dom; hopefully he'll see the thread and chime in. For my part, I've had over the course of many visits, both short and fairly extended, only one genuinely bad meal in Italy and only a handfull of mediocre meals where I left wishing I hadn't wasted the calories. One thing I do is the obvious, though not always convenient -- namely avoid dining in obvious tourist joints and more generally avoid dining in tourist areas. Obviously, in parts of Rome and much of the core of Florence that's hard, but in Rome I've had few problems finding places that are frequented heavily by locals.

If all this is completely obvious, please forgive me. The same goes for the following...

***

Now, if I were about to embark on a trip to Milan, Venice, Florence and Rome, what would I want to eat? Well, of course, I'd always be keeping an eye out for the new or the unusual, but there are some regional specialities that I either really like and always have when I go to the region in question or haven't gotten around to trying yet in the area whence they come. Now, sitting back at my desk, contemplating the trip, this is what comes to mind as things I'd like to eat...

Milan
• risotto alla Milanese
• osso buco
• goose
• büsêca (Milanese style tripe)
• pizzoccheri (buckwheat noodles, specialty of the Valtellina, north of Milan)
• polenta with luganega (fresh local sausages)
• tortelli di zucca (pumpkin-filled pasta)
• local cheeses (Gorgonzola, Taleggio, casera, bitto, Stracchino)
• local cured meats (bresaola, salame di Milano, cacciatorino)

Venice
• risotto nero (black risotto)
• risi i bisi (rice with peas)
• risotto cogli asparagi
• insalata di mare (salad of baby octopus, squid, mussels, etc.)
• bigoli in salsa (local style of fresh string-like pasta with anchovy sauce)
• baccalà alla vicentina (salt cod with milk, garlic, parmesan, nutmeg, usu. with polenta)
• seppie alla veneziana (cuttle fish cooked in lemon and wine, served usu. with polenta)
• fegato di vitello alla veneziana (traditional, simple liver dish)
• duck (bigoli co l’Anara!)

Florence
• schiacciata coi siccioli (flat bread with pork cracklings)
• bistecca alla fiorentina (grilled steak)
• arista alla fiorentina (pork roast)
• lattonzolo (suckling pig, traditionally slaughtered in early summer, I believe)
• cinghiale alla cacciatore (boar, hunter style)
• local cured meats (finocchiona – fennel salame, buristo – blood sausage, capocchia)
• local pecorino for the cheese course!
• rabbit

Rome
• carciofi alla romana
• carciofi alla giudia
• puntarelle con le alici
• pizza bianca
• gnocchi di semola alla romana
• fettuccine alla romana
• rigatoni con asparagi e ricotta
• rigatoni con la pajata (intestines)
• coda alla vaccinara (oxtail stew)
• trippa alla romana
• lamb

Make one meal in each place a selection of local cheeses and cured meats and bread and cheap wine bought in little shops and consumed outside and you will be happy. A good Swiss knife is useful (pack it in your checked luggage ).

Again, insofar as the above is obvious, I apologise; otherwise, if you have any questions about the above items, feel free to ask.

I hope you have a great trip... (I'd bring some loose fitting clothes ... )...

Antonius

Yeah, if you're in Florence long enough to make a day trip over to Siena (an hour away by train), it is well worth it. Florence has wonderful things but it's a crowded city overrun by motor scooters. And as Antonius suggests, it's so compact and tourist-oriented that it can be hard to escape the touristy restaurants which I found distinctly mediocre (all the best food I had came from the market and the shops around it-- that stuff was marvelous). Siena gives a much more vivid sense of the medieval city and traditional Italian life, and is a more pleasant place to just hang out, reading your book and noshing on panforte. I'm glad I saw the major art and architecture in Florence, but I'm glad I lived in Siena for a few days.

Well, I can't find my old Venice list, so here's a quick summary that I'm sure will end up being significantly less than quick:

When it comes to Italian food, if Rome owns my heart, Venice owns my brain. It should be noted that I haven't been to Venice nearly as much as I've been to Rome & Florence (Four visits, I think? Maybe five?), and my dining in Venice is much more of the guidebook variety. In Rome and Florence, we fall into any corner place and order something simple. Venice is the town where we tend to do more dedicated fine dining. So, these restaurants, for the most part, are not only upscale, but also expensive. Of course, everything in Venice is expensive, but some of these places are really expensive. I don't have any addresses or phone numbers for these, but for the most part they won't be difficult to track down.

Da Fiore
This place is known worldwide as one of Venice's best restaurants. The menu is full of very upscale, refined versions of regional cuisine with a few creative twists, and some other dishes that aren't traditional so much in execution as they are in spirit. It's one of those places where you absolutely can't go wrong. In particular, they do a black cuttlefish risotto with lemon zest that is incredible. It's a chic, dimly lit sort of spot that is very, very upscale, but the food is phenomenal. The chef (whose name escapes me at the moment) has published a cookbook, if you want to get a sense of what they do.

Fiaschetteria Toscana
I don't get the name. It's clearly a Venetian menu. It's another upscale spot, but it's the lighter sibling of Da Fiore. I think I've eaten there seven times over the 4-5 trips. The dishes, while very clean and refined, are more strictly traditional. It's more reasonably priced than some of the other spots on this list, but it certainly isn't cheap. Everything we've had has been great. They do a fantastic Seppie alla Veneziana, and though I know I just said they're more traditional, they do a great variation on Sarde in Saor, making it with sole instead of sardines. There's one really, really annoying waiter we've caught a couple of times who puts on the flamboyant, condescending European waiter routine for the tourist tables (which he then drops for the locals, who are also abundant), and it's an unfortunate major black mark against an otherwise excellent restaurant. Incidentally, I'd add Sarde in Saor to Antonius' excellent list of regional specialties... I understand it was just what came to mind as his favorites, and not intended to be a comprehensive list of local dishes But I love Sarde in Saor. Sardines are battered and fried, then marinated for many days in white wine vinegar, onions, raisins, and probably another item or two that I'm forgetting. Love 'em.

all'Angelo
This is the only place we've found very close to Piazza San Marco that's worthwhile, but it's REALLY worthwhile. I believe it's also a little more reasonably priced than most of the others. Our last trip, I think we ended up eating here three times. In truth, I don't even remember what we had, just that we thought it was really exceptional. One dish I DO remember was a dynamite Linguine al Cartoccio, containing at least six different varieties of sea critter. I'm a fan of the dish in general, but this one was exceptionally good.

_____ dal Vecchio???
I don't remember the name, exactly. It's a little bar that serves particularly good tramezzini. Great stop for a cheap and simple lunch if you're near San Marco. I can't remember the exact name, but I can tell you exactly how to get there. It's a stone's throw from San Marco. If you face the front door of the Hotel Danieli (just east of the Doge's Palace and the Bridge of Sighs, along the water), take the alley that runs along the left side of the building, and walk up a block or two. It's on the right side... if I recall, there's a hanging wooden sign depicting an old man, and a large case of sandwiches easily visible from the street.

Harry's Bar
It almost pains me to put this one here. Yes, it's the kind of place that people title "the famous". Yes, it's the anthesis of the local hole-in-the-wall chowhound-type establishment. Yes, they put their logo on their glasses and they're most famous for inventing the Bellini. Yes, the prices are absolutely heart-stopping. But damned if they don't make the best Fegato alla Veneziana I've had anywhere. I've eaten liver in a lot of places in Venice... and they KNOW their liver in Venice... and this was my favorite, hands down. It's thinly sliced and cooked extremely hot, so it takes on an incredible caramelized flavor and texture. There will be tourists. You will have to take out a second mortgage to pay for the meal. But it's really, really good.

Al Covo
I list this one here not as a recommendation, but as an anti-recommendation, since it's a place that seems to get a lot of mention. I want to immediately start with the disclaimer that I ate here ONCE, though it was with a group of six, so I had a chance to taste a number of things. Everything we had was good, but boring. I couldn't complain about the food, but there was nothing that stood out in any way. It was one of the least exciting places we ate in Venice. My suspicion is that its reputation (which is formidable) is helped by the fact that it's run by a husband/wife team, the former half of which is Italian and the latter half of which is Texan. It is, therefore, very comfortable for American tourists. It is, therefore, JAM PACKED with American tourists, many of whom seem to want to chat with other American tourists at the surrounding tables. Again, one visit, but my recommendation is to give this one a pass, no matter what the books may say.

Wow! Grazie!
Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions, I am printing them out now so I can compare them to the notes I have already taken. I am so excited for our trip. I definitely see this as an "Italy for Beginners" trip, where we will be visiting major sights with some short day trips. One possibility for Florence will be Siena. My subsequent trips will surely include visits to gastronomic meccas like Bologna and Umbria.
I really apreciate all of your feedback, and I will be taking good notes while I am there so I can share my experience with you guys!
Ciao!

Cara sorellina, if I were walking out the door right now in any of these towns, I'd pick the following from this very mixed bag:

Venezia: Ristorante Riviera
Firenze: Osteria Santo Spirito
Milano: l'Ulmet
Roma: Antica Pesa...no, Ditirambo...or maybe Uno e Bino...
Napoli: You didn't ask, but I'd go there and eat at Da Ettore. If you can't make it to Napoli this trip, try Al Regno di Re Ferdinando II in Roma and hum "Dduje Paravise" while you eat.

Buon viaggio e felice ritorno.

In Florence right off the central market is a small place, Trattoria Mario. Only lunch, no pretension, simple, straightforward, great tasting food. Most of the clientele seemed to be from the market, but once inside you were made to feel like one of the family. One of our best experiences in Italy.

In Siena, also our favorite town, I would recommend staying overnight if possible. The town is packed during the day in summer, as are the restaurants, but at night when the daytrippers are gone, it is a magical place. Oh yes, food-I do not remember the restaurant name, but it is right on the marketplace square which was quiet and serene at night. The restaurant extended well into the square which would not have been possible during the day. The pasta with wild boar sauce was the best food that I had in Italy, other than the seafood around Santa Margherita. The housemade vin santo perfectly ended the meal.

No recommendation on food in Venice, but I did have a martini at Harry's, premixed, in the glass in the fridge, small, underwhelming, but I'm glad I did it. Since Venice is all about wandering, I'd suggest wandering into the ghetto area and stopping at whatever place piques your interest.

The other thing about Siena if you stay late is that around 9 o'clock, everybody leaves their house and starts wandering the streets, chatting up their neighbors, having an espresso, and engaging in basically the pedestrian and all-ages version of how all the teenagers in a small town gather on one street in their cars on Saturday night. It seems a totally bizarre custom to Americans, but at the same time most wonderfully sociable and friendly; even though you (unlike them) don't have any old friends on the street to shoot the breeze with, you can't help but get caught up in the convivial mood.

Mike G wrote:The other thing about Siena if you stay late is that around 9 o'clock, everybody leaves their house and starts wandering the streets, chatting up their neighbors...

That's true of just about every town and city in Italy. It is, as they say, part of the culture.

Antonius

Maybe you just can't tell the difference in Florence, given how crowded it is...

I find it pretty easy to distinguish the natives from the tourists in Italy and the Fiorentini enjoy their evening stroll just as much as the rest of their countrymen. It's pretty much the same from Como to Catania.

Yeah, the Italians are the ones who don't look Japanese... I figured that out on my third or fourth day...

Seriously, sure, you can't help but notice in a place like Florence or Venice that people go in around dinner time and come back out again a little while later, but it's a whole different and rather dreamlike feeling when a medieval small town, which looks like it's rolled up the sidewalks and put out the candles for the night, suddenly empties out onto its streets all at once. (As a fan of La Notte di San Lorenzo, if I hadn't known it was coming, I might have thought it was an evacuation.)

My point is just that your assumption that the evening passeggiata was peculiar to Siena (in European terms, a city, not a small town) is wrong; it is an essential part of life throughout the country that happens every day in big cities, small cities and towns alike: families, couples, small groups of friends come together as a community in their public spaces. It is, in a sense, a fundamental institution in the life of the Italian people.

Antonius

Actually, I don't believe I spoke about any place other than Siena, Florence or (tangentially) Venice.

Sorry if anyone assumed anything more than that.

you can't help but notice in a place like Florence or Venice that people go in around dinner time and come back out again a little while later, but it's a whole different and rather dreamlike feeling when a medieval small town, which looks like it's rolled up the sidewalks and put out the candles for the night, suddenly empties out onto its streets all at once.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the passeggiata usually occurs before dinner, just before the stores close so that residents can have one last shot at window-shopping--along with the socializing--before settling in for dinner.

I wanted to clarify because it's a wonderful tradition that outsiders can participate in and feel (almost) part of. Although I'm sure they exist, I've had trouble finding typical passeggiate in the larger tourist-urban conglomerates (Rome, Venice, Florence), but it is quite evident along the main shopping drags in the lesser cities (Verona, Orvieto, Perugia) as well as in the villages and towns. Another reason for spending nights in some of the less frequented areas of Italy.

My memory of the passeggiata was that it was quite dark at the time. My memory of dinner was that it was quite dark at that time, too. My memory of the municipal unit of Siena was that it was one of those places where it feels like midnight and you check your watch and it's 8:15.

So... you could be right.

jbw wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the passeggiata usually occurs before dinner, just before the stores close so that residents can have one last shot at window-shopping--along with the socializing--before settling in for dinner.

What you say is certainly not wrong -- indeed, it's quite right that a lot of people go for a passeggiata (in the more narrow sense) before dinner. But it would be wrong to my mind to limit the term just to the pre-dinner and window-shopping sort of a passeggiata. Depending on time of year, part of country, weather, as well as individual factors (age, age of any dependent kids, time of dinner, desire for a gelato or a nightcap, etc.) there are also lots of people who do a passeggiata after dinner. In the summer, I would say that a significant part of the population of my family's hometown is out and strolling about the corso and main piazza later in the evening and for most, that is after dinner. In the winter, there is less bustle later in the evening and more early on.

Of course, 'dinner' can be pretty late, so I think the best way to describe the passaggiata is as 'the Italian evening (social) stroll', without tying it down too specifically, given the various parameters of variation. It is in the evening, it is pan-Italian (occurring also, in my experience, in places such as Rome and Florence) and it is a social and communal custom.

Come si diceva già nei tempi antichi:
post prandium stabis, post coenam ambulabis.
Dopo pranzo riposare, dopo cena passeggiare (ma anche prima se vuoi).

Antonius

One other Rome recommendation, in the Trastevere neighborhood, there's an amazing restaurant and wine bar called Enoteca Ferrara. My husband and I had a wonderful meal there after taking an extremely cool walking tour of the old Jewish ghetto and Trastevere. I highly recommend the walking tour too.

A sightseeing recommendation as well. I think one of the coolest things I saw in Rome was San Clemente, a church near the Coliseum. It is a 12th century church built on top of an 8th century church built on top of a 4th century Micean temple. A true palipsest. Not to be missed. Enjoy!

Although I'm sure they exist, I've had trouble finding typical passeggiate in the larger tourist-urban conglomerates (Rome, Venice, Florence), but it is quite evident along the main shopping drags in the lesser cities (Verona, Orvieto, Perugia) as well as in the villages and towns.

On Sunday evenings in Rome, one of the main shopping streets (Via del Corso) is closed to traffic and fills with people (Italians and non-Italians) strolling up and down, checking each other out, window shopping etc. It's defnitely hard to miss if you're in the historical center.

(Sorry for adding to the non-food discussion)

At the Florence train station (also at Pz. San Marco) you can pick up the No. 7 bus, which will take you up the hill to Fiesole. Descend from the bus, look around the Pz. Mino, and walk toward the pizza place you can see in front of you. Sit down at one of the tables outside. Order the artichoke heart pizza.

When it comes, eat it. One of the finest experiences you will ever have.

Geo
PS. There are some nice things to see in this little town, not least of which is the view of Firenzian rooftops from the path on the rim of the valley.