How much for a heritage turkey?

I've been pretty happy with the Caveny heritage turkeys I've bought the last few Thanksgivings, and so I went onto his site to see if I needed to reserve one already-- and I have to say, haven't prices gone up? A lot? Did I really pay $83 for a 12-14 lb. heritage turkey last year? I think it was more like $40 or $50, but maybe memory is failing me. I don't mean to be a cheapskate, I'm all for helping the farmers trying to keep these breeds going, but... yow.

Okay, actually it looks like I got a different-- natural but not heritage-- turkey last year, which ran about half as much as the Caveny birds, though I know I've cooked a couple of Caveny birds too. Still, were they quite a bit less last year?

I ordered a bird from Cavney a couple of years ago, and was shocked to discover at pickup that it was frozen. I should have asked, but I didn't realize that I was paying so much for a frozen bird.

I would like to try a fresh bird this year, and understand that all the Heritage producers affiliated with Green City market are required by the market to sell only a frozen product. Has anyone found a way around this? Do any of the farmers sell fresh birds direct to the customer? I emailed Liberty and Cavney and both asserted that "no one" is selling fresh Heritage birds.

So, I am considering buying a Ho Ka turkey, which is not heritage, but local and free range. I think I can buy a fresh one from Treasure Island or Gepperth's but need to call.

Any other thoughts on the frozen/fresh dilemma?

Have you tried any of the live poultry places around town? I can't say for certain that they have turkey, but there's a reasonable chance they might. And you can't get a fresher bird, although not necessarily heritage. The one I've been to is

Chicago Live Poultry
6421 N Western Ave, Chicago
(773) 381-1000

Mike G wrote:Okay, actually it looks like I got a different-- natural but not heritage-- turkey

Does the term "heritage" mean something specific or is it just their marketing buzzword name for the turkeys they sell. According to their site, the breed of the turkey is "Bourbon Red." I realize these are 'natural' birds, but are you paying more because of that, or because it is a bourbon red breed? Is it really that much better than other naturally raised turkeys? Their pricing seems to be generally about $6/pound.

I'm not sure that I even know what a heritage turkey is. I had a bourbon red a couple of years ago, and couldn't tell much difference between it and any other bird.

That said, Whole Foods is offering a number of organic and free range turkeys for Thanksgiving. The brand is Deistel. $49.99 to $74.99 depending upon which bird and which size you choose.

a heritage turkey is one of the older breeds of turkey that are no longer used in "commercial" production...grows too slowly, breasts too small, etc.

John Caveny's Bourbon Reds are easy to tell apart from supermarket turkeys:


Photo by G Wiv

Angular breast, slightly more gamey flavor that tastes like real turkey ought to taste but never has, meat that has some real muscle and tooth to it.

This page talks about them:

while large corporations have dominated turkey production and breeding since the 1960's, choosing the Broad Breasted Whites because of high breast meat production in a short period, Heritage Breeds have been quietly gaining a renewed market and respect due to their flavor and superior biological diversity.

Raising Heritage Breeds is more costly and time consuming than raising White Breasted Toms. While supermarket turkeys grow to an average of 32 pounds over 18 weeks, Heritage birds take anywhere from 24-30 to reach their market weight. But those who have tasted Heritage Breeds say the cost-and the wait-are well worth it.

More here.

Is it worth the extra cost? Up to you to decide, but there's a definite difference and I have enjoyed the several I've cooked tremendously.

Like teatpuller and Mike said, "heritage" refers to a number of breeds that aren't typically used any more.

"Natural," "free-range," and "organic" have to do with the way the bird is raised.

I paid $50 for a small (8 lb?) Caveny Bourbon Red last year, so it looks pretty similar to me.

Right, I think T.J.'s is a naturally-raised bird, but of the same breed as industrial turkeys. It made a very nice bird with real flavor, though, and less expensive than Caveny's heritage birds, so I'll probably end up getting one of those this year, as I was very happy with it last year. I emailed them about when they'd be at GCM and they said:

The days that we will be at the Green City Market before Thanksgiving are: Wed. Nov. 7th, Sat. Nov. 10th and Wed. Nov. 14th. If you could let us know which one of these days would work for you, we will make sure that we have it with us when we come. It is okay to pay at the time of delivery.

You can email them to reserve one at tji4@maxwire.net

I am glad to read that people commenting are generally pleased with our pasture raised Bourbon Red Heritage turkeys. Heritage turkeys are breeds once commonly raised in barnyard flocks. They breed naturally in the spring when the days begin to lengthen and can raise their own babies. They are ancestors to today’s commercial double breasted white turkeys.

Bourbon Red turkeys were generally raised by farmers and eaten at Thanksgiving, preferred by many over any of the other Heritage turkey breeds. We have older customers tell us that our turkeys remind them of Thanksgivings past – dinners similar to that depicted in Norman Rockwell’s 1943 painting titled “Freedom from Want” featuring a single breasted turkey. http://www.normanrockwellvt.com/Newslet ... omWant.htm

Heritage turkeys grow slowly -- ½ as fast as double breasted turkeys. Because our heritage turkeys are fed grain in addition to foraging for themselves in our pastures, they reach a marketable weight in about 26 weeks, giving the birds time to develop a strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass and accumulating a little fat.

Baby Heritage turkeys, poults, cost twice as much as commercial double breasted turkey poults and take twice as long to reach market size. We feed a specially prepared ration rich in ground yellow corn made by a small family owned feed mill. Corn is purchased from local farmers. Because of the ethanol boom, corn costs have risen more than 65% over the last 8 months. Feed cost represents over ½ of our cost to produce a turkey.

Our family believes we raise the best local Bourbon Red turkey. We appreciate the opportunity to provide a tender, tasty, naturally juicy turkey and hope you will try one for yourself.

Well, I have to tell you that I feel a bit taken by Eatzi's last Thanksgiving. The precooked "bourbon red" that they advertised and sold me looked nothing like that fine bird.

YourPalWill wrote:I'm not sure that I even know what a heritage turkey is. I had a bourbon red a couple of years ago, and couldn't tell much difference between it and any other bird.

That said, Whole Foods is offering a number of organic and free range turkeys for Thanksgiving. The brand is Deistel. $49.99 to $74.99 depending upon which bird and which size you choose.

FYI: It's not clear from their online circular, but the heritage turkeys have to be pre-ordered.

Bringing this back for 2008 (when, again, we can see how prices have changed, if nothing else).

Here's a link to local farms that have heritage brands (note that some producers are already sold out of selected sizes): http://www.slowfoodchicago.org/Turkey/default.asp

Mike G, the turkey in your photo above, was that smoked? Or the result of a spice rub or both?

danimalarkey wrote:Mike G, the turkey in your photo above, was that smoked? Or the result of a spice rub or both?

As per photo attribution that was a bird I cooked. If I remember correctly, and I most likely do, the John Caveny Bourbon Reds, I smoked two of them that day, were brined overnight with salt/brown sugar given a light rub and smoked on a WSM with apple wood.

Enjoy,
Gary

Gary, my apologies -- so enamored was I with the sight of a beautifully cooked turkey, I apparently couldn't bother to accurately read much else in the post.

I believe Cook's found that the an American Bronze was the winner in their taste test (with a conclusion, however, that it comes down to a specific bird or farm as another American Bronze came in at the bottom). Does it make a huge difference which breed I get? Clearly, Caveny's Bourbon Reds have gotten a great deal of acclaim here. Does anyone have experiences with the other heritage breeders identified by Slow Food Chicago? I'm sure they're all excellent and any bird I pick up would be a good one -- still, if there are strong opinions one way or the other... Thanks!

Good lord that's a good looking bird! You've inspired me to smoke one this year Gary!

Anyone know where I can order a turkey 8lb or less? Thanks!

queryrunner wrote:Anyone know where I can order a turkey 8lb or less? Thanks!

It's hard to imagine one that small.

Cogito wrote:

queryrunner wrote:Anyone know where I can order a turkey 8lb or less? Thanks!

It's hard to imagine one that small.

I have seen them in Europe.

A friend in Hamburg invited my Dad and I for dinner. I thought we were eating a large roasting chicken. At dinner's end, my friend wanted to know what we thought of her turkey. In unison, my Dad and I said, "That's a turkey?"

In my other life, the turkeys I bought in Moscow were that size originating in Hungary. They were difficult to stuff because they cut away the flaps of skin at the body cavity's entrance and at the neck.

My last trip to Prague, I made a turkey for my friends that was less than 10 pounds. This had been on my friend's wishlist for maybe 20 years, because he remembered one I made in Moscow. He had been attempting to make them just like mine for years without success. I surprised him greatly when I dry roasted the turkey. He kept asking where was the water, which puzzled me. He took out a Czech cookbook to read the instructions for a braised turkey, which I had never cooked or eaten. I'm sorry he never asked before, because he could have had his dream turkey a whole lot earlier.

I made an apple pie while the turkey was roasting. My friends had gone to watch television after the turkey hit the oven. Nobody paid attention to my pie making, which they later regretted. It is now on their wishlist for the my next visit, whenever that may happen.

Regards,

queryrunner wrote:Anyone know where I can order a turkey 8lb or less? Thanks!

Not cheap, but you still have a day to order one that size from D'Artagnan.

Who are those guys? They also want $9 for a 7oz bag of peeled roasted chestnuts...now, if only wild turkeys were available at H-Mart...

danimalarkey wrote:Gary, my apologies -- so enamored was I with the sight of a beautifully cooked turkey, I apparently couldn't bother to accurately read much else in the post.

I believe Cook's found that the an American Bronze was the winner in their taste test (with a conclusion, however, that it comes down to a specific bird or farm as another American Bronze came in at the bottom).

Does it make a huge difference which breed I get? Clearly, Caveny's Bourbon Reds have gotten a great deal of acclaim here. Does anyone have experiences with the other heritage breeders identified by Slow Food Chicago?

I'm sure they're all excellent and any bird I pick up would be a good one -- still, if there are strong opinions one way or the other... Thanks!

Hi,

The turkey that Cook's Illustrated rated as best was raised exclusively on "sweet corn" and had the highest fat content of any turkey tested. No wonder it tasted great.

The breed is not nearly as important as the feeding habits of the turkey. A turkey that has to forage for food might just taste greasy and have extremely tough flesh. Access to good food yields a better tasting bird.

Tim