Ketchapeno and Ketchipotle are my favorites, especially with french fries.

Hammond wrote:VI, that's what I meant, thanks, but perhaps it would have been even more correct to call kecap manis a "proto-catsup" in that is was an identifiable forerunner or first type of catsup rather than some ancient, vaguely remembered ancestor of the condiment.

According to Andy Smith, the origins of ketchup/catsup are in fish sauce; which I do not suggest we begin to include for our study. Also from the same pedigree are grape ketchup, walnut ketchup and a whole other group of ketchups one would never dream of applying to a fry, hamburger or, if you are out of Chicago, a hot dog.

My very first Culinary Historians meeting was Andy Smith presenting on Ketchup. I brought a jar of homemade concord grape ketchup I made the year before. Andy had described how the world of ketchup/catsup was not merely confined by the tomato variant. He was quite surprised someone in the audience actually brought a non-tomato ketchup to sample. The reactions to my grape ketchup were interesting. One lady, who talked without moving her jaw through closed teeth, exclaimed it would be perfect with a grilled duck breast! I was only hoping she'd like the taste, then continued with a few more menu suggestions. It was a funny introduction into this world of talking and learning about food.

David Hammond wrote:And you would be a representative of...what? The Tomato Defense League? Puree Purists Internationale?

You came into my home and you interviewed me for nearly two hours on the subject, and now you-with-your-tiny-stones ask me who I represent? Unless Mike G is stooging for you these days, I've got a witness with a video tape.

David Hammond wrote:Note: If we do meet at KHH on Pershing, firearms must be left at the door...which is bad news for you, as your kung-fu is WEAK!

We can knuck if you buck, D. Hizzle. But, peep this out, for real. Your sauce is slept on.

Macket-E Mack.

Erik M. wrote:We can knuck if you buck, D. Hizzle. But, peep this out, for real. Your sauce is slept on.Macket-E Mack.

Ric,

Why

Oh...I dunno. Maybe I'll get get drawn and quartered for this, but I'm not certain that ketchup belongs anywhere!!

It just doesn't strike me as a condiment that compliments (unlike kickass Dijon/Creole mustards, and some mayo), but it just overwhelms anything that crosses its path! Granted, the ubiquitous fries and ketchup combo has its merits, but that largely derives from trying to cover up the "flavor" of the typical cryogenically-preserved fries!! Try hand-cut fries, done proper Belgian style, and I swear that you won't need any masking of the flavor. The fries are a killer way to mop up some of that leftover mussel sauce, too....

When I studied abroad in Italy, a chief grievance of a lot of the school's provincial twits was the lack of ketchup (along with no ice and the lack of English speakers); I think it was during this time that I learned to appreciate the subtleties of different mayo varieties/compositions (well..less Italy, more rest o' Europe), and simple lack of dressings and condiments in general.

Sal,
Tell that to my niece who prefers her french toast dipped in ketchup, along with everything else!

I like Ketchapeno too, it's served at Walter Payton's Roundhouse in Aurora and I believe it's made in Northbrook. I first heard of it on Food Finds on Food TV, the Roundhouse is the only place I have seen it.

Ketchupeno is the legacy of Hubbard St. Grill, now Rumba.

I thought it was fine, but never understood the big deal: jalapeno puree added to catsup. It was almost a focal point for the restaurant, however, with bottles of the product and related swagish stuff at the door.

Ketchepeno, IIRC, started back when David Schy was chef for Hat Dance [same space, even earlier incarnation? was Nacional 27 after it was Hat Dance, or do I have my restaurant spaces mixed up?].

Only place I've ever found it is Elliot's. REALLY good on grainburgers, for some reason.

Giovanna

27 posts and not a single joke about the Ketchup Advisory Board?

Ketchup - it's for the good times....

If anyone hasn't done so already, read the chapter on Ketchup in Jeffrey Steingarten's book, "The Man Who Ate Everything". It may serve as a useful model for this upcoming event.

Also, I second the motion to include Filipino Banana Sauce, produced by brands such as Jufran (a personal favorite) and Mafran. It's our simple, sweet version of ketchup, although I don't think it can actually be called ketchup due to federal regulations (see Steingarten). It's great with roasted chicken, grilled pork chops, hell, even a cheap steak. It can be purchased at any Filipino or Asian grocery. I think it's also available at select Fresh Marketplace and Caputo's supermarkets.

David,

Over at Chowhound, someone just posted a link to this absolutely BRILLIANT animated commercial.

Be sure to have your sound turned up, and be sure to catch the remarks about your beloved condiment.

Erik M.

Erik M. wrote:David,

Over at Chowhound, someone just posted a link to this absolutely BRILLIANT animated commercial.

Be sure to have your sound turned up, and be sure to catch the remarks about your beloved condiment.

Erik M.

Destroy all foreign sauces (and all monsters, too, I'd suppose). Indeed.

Very humorous; I especially liked the anthropomorphized super-food-heroes: Captain Tofu-Head, etc.

Hammond

Erik M. wrote:Be sure to have your sound turned up, and be sure to catch the remarks about your beloved condiment.

My favorite part is when they show kikko-man in bed with a woman and text in the lower left warns: "Don't try this at home kids!"

I can't resist this post. I did PR for Muir Glen tomatoes for about 3 years, writing their newsletter which went out to food editors trying to educate them about tomaotes and organic growing processes. Anyhow, I did a TON of research on ketchup. More than anyone ever should probably. But a couple of things: the USDA has an actual measurement for thickness which the product must adhere to (you say viscosity they say thickness) in order to be labeled ketchup/catsup. The history of ketchup is interesting, it is believed to be derived from a Chinese condiment called cat-si-yop or something like that which was basically a fish sauce, probably similar to nuc mom. Anyhow, if you need a any more fun facts on ketchup/catsup, lemme know and I'll see if I can dig up my old kethcup file. Good luck with the taste test.

bjt

bjt wrote:The history of ketchup is interesting, it is believed to be derived from a Chinese condiment called cat-si-yop or something like that which was basically a fish sauce, probably similar to nuc mom.

Did you catch what bjt said about my sauce, David? It wasn't quite loud enough for me to hear.


Erik M.

I stopped in Lincolnwood Produce over lunch today and they have what appears to be a line of cheap ketchups combined with other tasty/tomato-y sauces. The products all feature labels featuring the brand name(?) "Ketchup Combinations." I saw a hickory smoke flavor, a "sweet and sour" flavor and a "jalape

ghollander wrote:I stopped in Lincolnwood Produce over lunch today and they have what appears to be a line of cheap ketchups combined with other tasty/tomato-y sauces. The products all feature labels featuring the brand name(?) "Ketchup Combinations." I saw a hickory smoke flavor, s "aweet and sour" flavor and a "jalape

"Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins

David:

I understand your point about tomato catsup ceasing to be catsup when its flavor profile is significantly altered by additional ingredients.

If pressed to think about it further, I'd probably include products like Heinz EZ Squirt (traditionally flavored, but vibrantly colored green and blue; marketed mainly to children in the U.S. and Britain) in the "is ketchup" category, while removing most of the jalape

ghollander wrote:David:If pressed to think about it further, I'd probably include products like Heinz EZ Squirt (traditionally flavored, but vibrantly colored green and blue; marketed mainly to children in the U.S. and Britain) in the "is ketchup" category.

During a pre-event scouting trip to Kevin's last weekend, C2 brought some Heinz EZ Squirt (Awesome Orange) and my first taste was not enough to persuade me that it was catsup. The label proclaimed it as a "ketchup product" (or something suspicious like that), but I would not use this condiment except under strict experimental conditions.

There was some Red Gold on the counter, however, and I tried that, too, and it wasn't bad; it was actually somewhat better than the Del Monte's I brought (to establish a low-end baseline).

Hammond

Hi,

Not to let any cat out of the bag, at the Ketchup prequel, several observed there was indeed a difference in how a ketchup tasted on a fry or hamburger. Same ketchup, which was excellent on fries, was just so-so on the hamburger. This had been suggested before, though I didn't believe it until Sunday.

So we will be learning more about this humble condiment on Sunday.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

Not to let any cat out of the bag, at the Ketchup prequel, several observed there was indeed a difference in how a ketchup tasted on a fry or hamburger.

C2, this did kind of surprise us, but it probably shouldn't have. Like any other sauce, different catsups will taste differently on different foods. We tend to think of catsup as an undifferentiated universal condiment, but that just ain't so, as we know. It doesn't surprise me at all that McDonald's engineers the Heinz formulation to suit the flavor profile of its menu items...in retrospect, I should be surprised if they didn't.

(JILS, did you score some McD's packets?)

Hammond