Pizza Napoletana

Been tweaking my recipe in preparation for a Slow Food event at my home this weekend. My last two batches have used flour from the San Felice mill in Naples. Just by plugging this flour into my previous recipe, the quality of the pies (both in flavor and texture) has improved beyond my wildest dreams. On Sunday, I'll be baking over a dozen pies - never tried that many before.

Here is photo of today's lunch. I ran out of fresh mozzarella, so I used some caciocavallo from the Alleva dairy in NYC. Really good stuff.



Bill/SFNM

You suck. I've been fasting all day because I'm going to Burke's Primehouse tonight, and then I open this thread and see that looking up at me.

I'll know who to thank when I have my steak tonight and think, it was good, but I'd rather have had a pizza.

Bill-
Do you know how the San Felice differs from say.. KA bread flour? Protein %, ash content....?

Kit

kit wrote:Bill-
Do you know how the San Felice differs from say.. KA bread flour? Protein %, ash content....?

Kit

Kit, Below are the specs for the San Felice. I'm pretty sure "ceneri" is ash.


FARINA 00 AZZURRO “verace pizza napoletana artigianale”

CARATTERISTICA VALORE TOLLERANZA
UMIDITA’ 15.50% MAX
CENERI 0,55% SS MAX
W 200-300
P/L 0,50/0,70
FALLING NUMBER 250-400
PROTEINE(N X 5.7)SS 11,00%-12,50 %
ASSORBIMENTO (A) 55% MIN
SVILUPPO (B) 2’30’’
STABILITA’ (CD) 4’-8’
CADUTA (E10) 20 UF +/-10
CADUTA (E 20) 70 UF +/-10

What kind of pizza are you planning to make? To address the limitations of kitchen ovens, many aficionados of American-style pies prefer King Arthur High-gluten Sir Lancelot (14.2% protein). But they also add olive oil to the dough to get the desired texture (olive oil in Neapolitan dough is like liquid smoke in BBQ).

Hope this helps.

Bill/SFNM

Bill,

Would you say that you 00 flour would be different that the Caputo 00 flour that is so readily available around here? Not that I'm rushing out to make pizza dough any time soon (lack of suitable oven), but for the sake of knowledge, I would like to know if the 00 grading is what makes the difference or if there is something else special about the flour you used.

stevez wrote:Bill,
Would you say that you 00 flour would be different that the Caputo 00 flour that is so readily available around here?

Stevez,

Are you talking about Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour (Blue Bag) from the Caputo molinol in Naples or you talking about the flour sold by your local Caputo market. Very different animals. I've never heard of the Blue Bag from Naples being readily available anywhere. Comes in 20kg bags.

Bill/SFNM

What kind of pizza are you planning to make?

Pepe's in New Haven, CT. That's what I want. Thin, crispy, bubbly crust with a chewy inside. They use a gas fired brick oven and take about 8 minutes to bake. My favorite pie was garlic, oil, sliced tomatoes, whole clams, and parmigiano.

Kit

Bill/SFNM wrote:

stevez wrote:Bill,
Would you say that you 00 flour would be different that the Caputo 00 flour that is so readily available around here?

Stevez,

Are you talking about Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour (Blue Bag) from the Caputo molinol in Naples or you talking about the flour sold by your local Caputo market. Very different animals. I've never heard of the Blue Bag from Naples being readily available anywhere. Comes in 20kg bags.

Bill/SFNM

Bill,

I honestly don't know the answer to your question. I remembered this discussion a while back and I guess I was looking for some clarification.

Yes, I recall the confusion. "00" by itself is not always a useful designation. Some are designed for pasta, others for pizza, etc. I have used two flours specifically designed for Neapolitan-style pizzas:

Molino Caputo

Molino San Felice

Both of these are designed for highly-hydrated doughs and high-temp ovens.

Bill/SFNM

Yes, ceneri are ashes.

So, Bill, are you switching off Caputo? Have you tried either flour inside in the Wolf, or only in the wood oven?

Choey,

Based on the last few pies, I see no reason to use Caputo again. Unfortunately, I still have about 30 pounds left (pssst - wanna buy some pizza flour, cheap). It does make very good pancakes and I really like pancakes, but ..... And also a very nice fresh egg pasta. It is too weak for breads. Any ideas of what to do with 30 lbs. of pizza flour?

These kinds of pizza flours are not designed for the kitchen oven, so I haven't tried. They really are optimized for 700F+ temps. You can bake at temps like these in the kitchen oven by disabling the door interlock for the self-cleaning cycle - not anything I would do, but there are hardcore pizza fanatics out there who have done it.

Bill/SFNM

Bill, I have a Wolf electric coming in next week (double ovens, the smaller one has a proofing setting). I'm embarrassed to confess you've got me thinking about hacking my new oven before it's even installed.

--------------
Wine is not a source of ecstasy. --Brillat-Savarin
Even Brillat-Savarin had his off days. --Choey

Bill/SFNM wrote:These kinds of pizza flours are not designed for the kitchen oven, so I haven't tried. They really are optimized for 700F+ temps.

Given that you have a properly hot oven, maybe you don't have first hand experience with which to answer this question, but what are the shortcomings if you cook dough from these pizza flours in an oven ca. 450-475º?

Antonius

Antonius wrote:what are the shortcomings if you cook dough from these pizza flours in an oven ca. 450-475º?

Antonius,

The best answer to your question is this thread at pizzamaking.com where hardcore pizzaholics like me hang out. Short answer: assuming you have a good handle on all of the factors that need to be tweaked to adapt to these flours, you'll be able to produce the finest pies. Let me know if you have any questions about the factors discussed there.

Best,
Bill/SFNM

Thanks, Bill. I just took a quick look and will return for a more leisurely perusal. I'll be making pizzas of a couple of sorts for Good Friday and maybe Holy Saturday and perhaps I'll have some new tricks to try!

This topic has reminded me to post something I wrote a couple of weeks back on an 'interesting' pizza I recently ate in a restaurant...

Ciao,
A

What is Pizza Napoletana?

Tippenze wrote:What is Pizza Napoletana?

It is pizza in the style of Naples, Italy, which claims to be the birthplace of pizza. It is lightly topped, with a thin, fluffy crust and baked quickly at very high temps that produce some charring. The most famous Neapolitan pizza is the Margherita, named after the Queen of Savory, who in 1889 visited Naples, was served a simple pizza with cheese, tomatoes, and basil, and praised its quality and resemblence to the Italian tri-color.

Bill/SFNM

Tippenze wrote:What is Pizza Napoletana?

Pizza as made in Naples, the place where pizza in the general style with which the word 'pizza' is commonly associated around the world was first popularised. In a narrow sense, Neapolitan pizza is defined in a rather specific way; briefly:
- crust of dough made from only flour, water, yeast, salt. No fat is added.
- crust formed as a flat and round loaf with a rim.
- condiments can be infinitely variable within a whole bunch of aesthetic limitations built up through tradition but never applied with a heavy hand.
- pie cooked at extremely high heat (700º plus).

Neapolitan pizza is first and foremost about the crust and it's range of textures, and the simple interaction of judiciously applied ingredients applied to the top of crust with the crust itself.

Antonius

Sounds (and looks) wonderful. Can you recommend a Chicago restaurant that makes a good Neapolitan pizza?

Have a look at this thread. Enjoy!

Neapolitan pizza makers suspected of using coffin wood in their ovens.

David Hammond wrote: Neapolitan pizza makers suspected of using coffin wood in their ovens – um, yuck.

Ashes to ashes, crust to crust.

Gastrofanatici claim the coffin ash complements the dioxin rather nicely. I'm sure it pairs well with Due Euro Carlino, too.

Choey wrote:I'm sure it pairs well with Due Euro Carlino, too.

I think you can find that at Trader Joe's.

That was a joke.

Il Spettatore di Vino said of Due Euro Carlino "...a mephitic claret, suffused with notes of H2SO4 and HCl, redolent of the Augean stables. The gustatory and olfactory equivalent of the Seveso chemical disaster. Caveat potor."

I don't know when I will ever build a brick oven, until then this is worthwhile trying:

The Game-Changing Cookbook: Nathan Myhrvold's 2,400-page 'Modernist Cuisine' upends everything you thought you knew about cooking wrote:PROBLEM #3: You love Neopolitan-style pizza, but don't want to invest in a brick oven.

SOLUTION: Make an oven out of a steel sheet.

Get a ¼-inch-thick sheet of steel from a metal fabricator (Search online for a local one), have it cut to the size of your oven shelf and insert it in the rack closest to the broiler. Preheat the oven at its highest temperature for ½ hour, then turn on the broiler and slide your pizza onto the metal plate. It should emerge perfectly cooked in 1.5 to 2 minutes.

WHAT'S GOING ON: Pizza in a brick oven cooks at about 800 degrees—way hotter than the highest setting of most home ovens. The metal sheet is more conductive than a brick oven's stone, so it can cook just as fast at a lower temperature.