pork equivalent of beef top round? (italian beef related)

I've been kicking around an idea in my head that I want to try to make - essentially I want to make a chicago-style italian beef sandwich, though instead of beef, I want to make it with pork. Some of you guys might be familiar with Tony Luke's roast pork sandwich in Philly http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/03/tony-lukes-roast-pork-italian-broccoli-rabe-sandwich-philadelphia-philly-pa.html - I've never been to Philly but that sandwich looks amazing. Anyway, that is the type of thing I'm going for. I've searched around a bit for italian beef recipes or recipes for similar sandwiches (links below). Most seem to call for beef top round. I am wondering what the equivalent cut of pork would be. My first instinct was shoulder, but I think that is too fatty and might have too much connective tissue. Loin is an obvious choice but that seems too boring and there is no fat at all. I'm thinking the best cut would be something from the ham region, but I really haven't used any of the ham cuts so I'm not as familiar with them. Anyone have any ideas?


chicago-style italian beef
http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/italian_beef.html

Roast beef po boy
http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/10/the-food-lab-how-to-make-real-new-orleans-roast-beef-po-boy-sandwiches-nola.html

The pork sandwich is far superior to the cheese steak. My go to restaurants are Paesano's followed by Tony Lukes and Dinic's in the Reading Terminal. Here is a link to the supposed recipe for Tony Lukes. The bread in Philly is great. An overlooked part of the sandwich is the quality of the aged provolone. There are recipes throughout the internet for the roast pork sandwich.

http://www.tastebook.com/recipes/1104648-Tony-Lukes-Italian-Roast-Pork-Sandwich

http://www.paesanosphillystyle.com/

http://www.hollyeats.com/Paesanos.htm

http://www.hollyeats.com/TonyLukes.htm

http://www.hollyeats.com/DiNics.htm

Use Boston butt from the shoulder and cook it for a long time (as you would with IB); the collagen and fat will break down and flavor the meat. Def not loin. The Philly Italian pork is strikingly similar in most respects to IB. It would be improved by good giardinera (bannana pepper rings are weak) much as IB might be improved by broccoli rabe now and then....

I did come across that recipe when I was searching but I don't think that is quite right. As we all know, the key to a good italian beef is slicing it super thin. I just don't think you are going to be able to do that with a slow roasted pork shoulder. I believe the philly pork sandwiches have the key thin sliced meat characteristic as well. I'm sure it would come out totally acceptable to make it with pork shoulder, but I become a bit of a perfectionist on my food projects so I'm trying to get it exactly right. I am going to try to stop by Paulina on thursday and see if the guys there have a good recommendation.

The lechon asado sandwich from Hugo's Spanish Restaurant in Tampa that I posted about here is exactly what you are describing. It was one of the best sandwiches I had in quite some time. It seemed like they used thinly sliced shoulder.

Hugo's Spanish Restaurant
931 South Howard Avenue
Tampa, FL 33606
(813) 251-2842

Well, as with good Chicago IB, in Philly they are able to thinly slice otherwise falling-apart tender roast pork by chilling it before slicing. If you have a 'fridge and a meat slicer, you should be good to go.

When I do braised brisket, I remove from the oven about midway through cooking: at that point it's solid and tough enough for an electric knife to thinly cut, without having to wait fhrough a chill stage. Reassemble the slices back into as solid a mass as you can, and go back to the heat.

That might work for shoulder.

Low and slow, baby, low and slow.

As far as how long to cook a boston butt and still be able to slice it you would probably remove the roast from the heat at an internal temp of 175 - 180 and let the roast rest for 30 min. I would be inclined to smoke it low at about 225 for about 1.5 hours per pound.

funkyfrank wrote:The pork sandwich is far superior to the cheese steak. My go to restaurants are Paesano's followed by Tony Lukes and Dinic's in the Reading Terminal. Here is a link to the supposed recipe for Tony Lukes. The bread in Philly is great. An overlooked part of the sandwich is the quality of the aged provolone. There are recipes throughout the internet for the roast pork sandwich.

And don't forget the broccoli rabe.

I believe that they use a boneless pork shoulder, although I was pretty much blinded by the juiciness of the meat.

A lot better than the steak sandwich.

JeffB wrote:Well, as with good Chicago IB, in Philly they are able to thinly slice otherwise falling-apart tender roast pork by chilling it before slicing.

Man v Food visited Dinic's in the Reading Terminal Market, Philadelphia. Dinic's roasts whole boneless fresh hams (raw, not cured), chills over night and slices thin on a mechanical slicer.

Quickly reheat razor thin slices of pork in simmering pork juice, layer on crisp rolls, top with hand-cut irregular slices of aged provolone and broccoli rabe, drizzle with scant pork juice. Eat!

Dinic's roast pork sandwich was roasted/rested/constructed in a similar fashion to Chicago Italian beef.

Enjoy,
Gary

Last July I was in Philly for a 1-night business trip and swung by Dinic's on my way to the airport to head home. The roast pork sandwich was fantastic.. Most surprising to me was the amount of flavor the aged provolone added.

Crappy cellphone pic...


-Dan

I like my roast pork sandwich better. I use a combo of aged provolone, and sharp provolone. I think the aged is too over powering by itself, and the sharp too mild by itself. Together they are the perfect balance. I also use collard greens or mustard greens instead of broccoli rabe. Again, i think the rabe is a bit too bitter, and the collard greens has a much more subtle bite. It also doesnt turn to mush when blanched and sauteed. But the real secret is in the au jus. I make my own concentrated pork stock from pork bones. It takes about 10lbs of bones to cook down to 4 quarts of stock.

Sam Mich wrote:I like my roast pork sandwich better. I use a combo of aged provolone, and sharp provolone.

Looks great but you don't mention what/where the bread came from.

It would be great on a roll from Nhu Lan.

NhuLan Bakery
2612 W Lawrence Ave
Chicago, IL 60625-2921
(773) 878-9898

Tony Luke's uses fresh hams for the pork sandwich. I dvr'd an episode of Food Feuds on FN where they made it. It was skinned, boned, seasoned and tied. They roasted it for 6 hrs at 260.

kenji wrote:

Sam Mich wrote:I like my roast pork sandwich better. I use a combo of aged provolone, and sharp provolone.

Looks great but you don't mention what/where the bread came from.

It would be great on a roll from Nhu Lan.

NhuLan Bakery
2612 W Lawrence Ave
Chicago, IL 60625-2921
(773) 878-9898

Sorry, I use Amoroso's Italian rolls.

jvalentino wrote:Tony Luke's uses fresh hams for the pork sandwich. I dvr'd an episode of Food Feuds on FN where they made it. It was skinned, boned, seasoned and tied. They roasted it for 6 hrs at 260.

really any cut will do as long as you dont dry it out and slice it thin.Once you dip it in the juice, its instantly moist and tender. Personally i roast the bones for my stock, then simmer them for 2 hours, and the meat falls right off the bones. That is the best meat to use. And the first to go on the sandwich.

It depends on what you're going for. If you want that Italian beef-like texture, you pretty much need to have a good meat slicer and do not roast the meat until it gets fork-tender. You want to cook the pork (I use shoulder) to about 140/145. I use a slow oven for this, to ensure even doneness (something around 275F). I then take it out, let it rest for a couple hours until cool, and slice very thinly in the meat slicer. Dunk in whatever jus you've concocted, and you've got yourself the filling to an awesome sandwich. Better than an Italian beef, in my opinion.

However, until I got myself a professional Globe meat slicer, I was not able to get the meat sliced thin enough. Maybe those with great knife skills can do it, but pork shoulder cooked to that doneness can be tough if not sliced thinly enough, as you haven't rendered the collagen out of it. When I lived abroad and was homesick for Chicago food, I used to try those Italian beef sandwich recipes that relied on slow-cooking meat for hours and, while good in their own right, they were simply not what I wanted when I was craving a Chicago-style Italian beef. It had to be round roast, thinly sliced and finished off with a dunk in the jus to taste and feel right.

I've never had the Philly pork sandwich, so I don't know if it's usually something that's slow cooked and falling apart, or something that's just normally roasted to doneness and then thinly sliced, but for what the OP is going for, I would do the above.

Binko wrote:It depends on what you're going for. If you want that Italian beef-like texture, you pretty much need to have a good meat slicer and do not roast the meat until it gets fork-tender. You want to cook the pork (I use shoulder) to about 140/145. I use a slow oven for this, to ensure even doneness (something around 275F). I then take it out, let it rest for a couple hours until cool, and slice very thinly in the meat slicer. Dunk in whatever jus you've concocted, and you've got yourself the filling to an awesome sandwich. Better than an Italian beef, in my opinion.

However, until I got myself a professional Globe meat slicer, I was not able to get the meat sliced thin enough. Maybe those with great knife skills can do it, but pork shoulder cooked to that doneness can be tough if not sliced thinly enough, as you haven't rendered the collagen out of it.

I've never had the Philly pork sandwich, so I don't know if it's usually something that's slow cooked and pulled, or something that's just normally roasted to doneness and then thinly sliced, but for what the OP is going for, I would do the above.

This thin enough for you.

Looks pretty good. I thought you said you cooked the meat until it falls right off the bones. Apparently I misunderstood--that's cooked to the doneness I make it, too.

Re-reading your last post, I see the "fall of the bones" refers to the pork stock. And, somehow, I missed your first pork sandwich post, which would make it obvious you're not using fall-off-the-bone pork. Personally, I've never had good experience with those plastic food slicers cutting meat thin enough for my tastes, but it looks good in your posted photo.

Binko wrote:Looks pretty good. I thought you said you cooked the meat until it falls right off the bones. Apparently I misunderstood--that's cooked to the doneness I make it, too.

Re-reading your last post, I see the "fall of the bones" refers to the pork stock. And, somehow, I missed your first pork sandwich post.

Yeah sorry if i confused you. I was trying to say that I use all cuts of pork (loin,pork shoulder, boston butt) but I prefer the meat off the pork bones i use to make pork stock. Last time i made stock i bought 30lbs of pork bones @ 50 cents/lb. I got roughly 3 lbs of meat out of it and 10 quarts of really concentrated stock. For $15 you cant beat that.

When im not making stock and dont have time to do a slow oven roast, I'll use a loin. It takes roughly 45 minutes in my smoker rottisserie.