A success with homemade Pho

So I have made a few failed attempts at making my own home version of Phở Đặc Biệt. I knew I had broth problems, and couldn't quite get the spices right. It wasn't until the other night when I joined my good friend Laikom and a few others on the Argyle adventure that I decided to make another try at this excellent soup.

Starts with your choice of meats (of which I chose):
Beef Tendon
Sliced Beef Neck
Sliced Pork Tenderloin

and the veggies:
Sprouts
Spring Onion
Cilantro

Additionally you will need:
Fish Sauce (my preference will be pictures below)
Banh Pho Noodles
Five Spice Powder (the particular mix I have contains: Lemongrass, Paprika, Black Peppercorns, Cloves and Cayenne) This mix I had purchased at H-Mart in Naperville some time ago in the Vietnamese spice/sauce section.

Because I do not have a pressure cooker, I had to boil the tendon for about 4-5 hours to ensure its tenderness. Once to the desired texture, I added the Five Spice and fish sauce to my my liking. (About 3 tsp of the spices and 1/4 cup fish sauce in 2qts of broth) and let boil for another 5-7 minutes.


Tiparos is my fish sauce of choice. To be honest this is the only brand I've used since growing up and learning how to cook with my mother. She never favored the squid sauce and other more widely used fish sauces. I remember growing up and hearing her say the flavor was just not "right". Of course this is preference and has been our family preference as well. Tiparos is fairly inexpensive so it's something you can try a bit and see if you like it or not.


The noodles come dried and need to be boiled briefly for about 2-3 minutes, drained and set aside until needed.

Now, back to the broth...

The last 60 seconds of boiling time for the broth, I added the thinly-sliced beef and pork and cooked to desired wellness.

Served in a bowl with veggies on top.

I was quite happy with my results as normally I would rather take a trip to Argyle (to save the labor) but as cooks we like to make our own as well. It is something I would make again, given that I invest in a pressure cooker or allow time for the tendon to soften. (Perhaps start boiling it Sunday morning).

(All ingredients I used for this were purchased at Chicago Food Corp. a.k.a Joong Boo Market off the Kimball exit and Dan Ryan).

Another image of the pho for those who were interested in the broth color.

How did you make the broth??

The broth was made with the stock from boiling the beef tendon for several hours, five spice and fish sauce. Additionally you can add in a little hoisin sauce for more spice complexity. I actually just made a second batch this evening and added cinnamon along with my five spice powder and it come out better.

The broth was made with the stock from boiling the beef tendon for several hours

Where do you get your beef tendon?

Being Vietnamese, I've grown up eating pho most of my life. The recipe changes from household to household, as you can probably tell from seeing many different variations of pho recipes on the internet. There are some commonalities usually, however, and Distinktif, I suggest you try these tips next time you decide to attempt this again.

I have typically made the broth out of beef bone or oxtail. Beef bones take longer to cook, as they usually stew in the broth for a good 6-8 hours, oxtail about half the time. Beef bones need to be par boiled and then scrubbed if you want a more translucent broth. I add tendon when there are 3-4 hours left in the cooking process, but the flavor of the broth comes primarily from the bones. If you want to make pho ga, you can substitute chicken, and cut down the cooking time even further. I have never seen pho flavored with pork.

Aside from the beef bones, additional flavor components consist of an onion and ginger root that are both charred on the stove directly over the open flame. I also add a stick of lemongrass, folded down to a decent length, pounded down a mallet to extract flavors, and binded together with twine. Spices are also key. In addition to cinnamon, I use fennel, star anise, clove, cardamon pods, and coriander seeds. I roast these in a pan to get some flavors out, and then throw them in a cheesecloth so they don't go everywhere in the soup. I don't think I've seen powdered spices put into pho broth.

Once the cooking is almost complete, I flavor mine with salt, sugar, msg, and fish sauce to get to desired saltiness/sweetness/omami level.

I understand that different strokes for different folks but the traditional pho broth doesn't have paprika, cayenne, or lemongrass. Those are the typical spices for Bun Bo Hue.

For sweetness and spicyness, you don't add hoisin sauce and/or paprika/cayenne directly to the broth. Hoisin and siracha chili sauce are condiments served at the table.

If you need to get a spice package to cook Pho, go to Argyle area and you can purchase it easily from any grocery store.



There is also a powder version labeled as "Cot Pho Bo (Beef)" Quoc-Viet brand. I don't think what you bought at H-mart (being a Korean grocery store) is authentic Vietnamese flavor.



While you are there, you can also pick up the fresh pho noodles version. These can be stored in the freezer as well. When you need to use them, simply thaw out first and then quickly blanch in boiling water for 30 seconds.

Thanks everyone for your tips. It was a learning experience trying to make it for the "first" time. Next time I'll definitely use whole spices because it does render a better broth compared to powdered spices. But I do have whole cinnamon, cloves and ginger so those will come in handy next time. Vietnamese cooking is something I'm fairly new too. As I am Filipino/Chinese most of my cooking tends to appear as a fusion of both cuisines.

As for where I get my beef tendon I either go to Chicago Food Market/Joong Boo Market off Kimball between Belmont and 90/94. But it is sold frozen there. H-Mart in Niles or Naperville sells a better selection of it from what I've seen. However, there is usually a crowd of people fighting for the best cuts of tendon.

Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I wasn't familiar with pho until I read about it here on LTH, and decided that I really wanted to try it, as I am a fan of both soup and of Asian foods. Anyway, from what I have read, my assumption has been that this is traditionally a beef-based broth, with a lot of different beef cuts included in the preparation. Is this thinking correct?

The reason I ask is because I recently went to a restaurant in Glenview that has pho on the menu, Moon Wok. (This place was suggested by a friend; I'm going to have to start to be more assertive about choosing restaurants!) I assumed from reading about the place online that it prepared very traditional dishes. So, I asked the waiter about the pho, thinking this might be a good place to try it out. Imagine my surprise when he told me it was prepared with a chicken-based broth, and that it was the closest thing to chicken noodle soup that they had on the menu! I quickly decided this was probably not the best place to try the pho. (The noodle dish I did order was incredibly bland; while I give props to the place for having very fresh vegetables, that's about all I can say positive about my dining experience there.)

Anyway, thanks for sharing what you know; I will definitely have to find a more authentic place for my first bowl of pho!

sdbond wrote:Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I wasn't familiar with pho until I read about it here on LTH, and decided that I really wanted to try it, as I am a fan of both soup and of Asian foods. Anyway, from what I have read, my assumption has been that this is traditionally a beef-based broth, with a lot of different beef cuts included in the preparation. Is this thinking correct?

Yes, it is traditionally a beef based broth, with different slices of cooked and raw beef, tripe, and tendon served on top of the noodles as garnishes.

As much as I'm enjoying living back in Virginia, the lack of SE Asian food is getting to me. Finally decided to make my first batch of homemade Pho. Was thrilled with the results, and surprised how easy it was.

Beef neck and marrow bones - ready to roast


Once roasted, they were tossed in a stock pot with water, a charred onion and knob of ginger, star anise, cinnamon, black peppercorns, cilantro, and some salt. The next morning I strained and defatted the stock, and balanced with fish sauce and sugar.

Accompaniments ready to go - mint, cilantro, Thai basil, bean sprouts, lime, and sliced birds eye chilis.


The fresh rice noodles shown upthread were quickly blanched, along with some beef balls. On top went slices of hangar steak (what I had handy) and scallions.

Ready for broth


Finished Pho


So worth the effort - deep, beefy broth with a great balance of spices. My coworkers (who I made this as lunch for) were thrilled, having never really understood Pho before.

-Dan

Looks great Dan!

My own recent experiment making pho worked out pretty well. It's somewhat time intensive since I had it go over night, but the results were terrific.

For a simpler and quicker soup, you can try pho ga. It's basically exactly the same procedure, but using chicken parts instead of beef parts. The chicken parts make a nice stock in 4-6 hours, so if you start it up in the morning, you'll be ready to go for lunch time.

Toasting the spices and charring the beef, ginger and onions is essential to nailing down that pho flavor. I usually go with oxtail and maybe shanks or ribs and simmer all the browned ingredients in a slow cooker overnight.

Dan, that really looks amazing, including the raw beef. Nice job! I'm not saying you need it, but what a great way to increase job security.

kanin wrote:I usually go with oxtail and maybe shanks or ribs and simmer all the browned ingredients in a slow cooker overnight.

Yeah, the price of oxtail, shanks and ribs down here is crazy, so trying to find a nice cheap mix of good bones to work with - neck bones and marrow bones seems to do the trick, with a nice mix of meat, connective tissue, and marrow.

BR wrote:Dan, that really looks amazing, including the raw beef. Nice job! I'm not saying you need it, but what a great way to increase job security.

Thanks BR. Currently running a startup, and while I pay crap wages, I make up for it with equity and homemade lunch 4-5 times a week.

turkob wrote:My own recent experiment making pho worked out pretty well. It's somewhat time intensive since I had it go over night, but the results were terrific.

For the first time in my life, I've got an electric stovetop. The only advantage I've been able to find is being able to leave things on a nice slow simmer all night!

-Dan

Hi,

Now that you put an intensive effort to make your own broth, do you use it all?

I know it is customary not to consume all the broth in Pho, which can be a challenge due to its volume. I have taken to bringing home excess broth to repurpose. (Or at least that is the goal, which sometimes does not happen.)

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Now that you put an intensive effort to make your own broth, do you use it all?

I know it is customary not to consume all the broth in Pho, which can be a challenge due to its volume.

Absolutely! One nice thing about homemade is that you can control the ratio of broth to noodles to meat in your bowl. No leftover broth in my bowl!

-Dan

dansch wrote:

Cathy2 wrote:Now that you put an intensive effort to make your own broth, do you use it all?

I know it is customary not to consume all the broth in Pho, which can be a challenge due to its volume.

Absolutely! One nice thing about homemade is that you can control the ratio of broth to noodles to meat in your bowl. No leftover broth in my bowl!

-Dan

HI,

I was pretty sure you did use it all.

Your soup looks fabulous. I'm sure your co-workers received the best possible introduction to pho, lucky them!

If you need ingredients shipped to you, I'd be happy to help.

Regards,

Nice looking soup! Making it at home is well worth it--it's just hard to schedule the time! Here in Montréal we have several Vietnamese 'super'markets. My local has a service meat and fish dept. They offer a most wonderful thing: a phô kit! It contains everything you need for a dac biet version, including all the various meats--tendon, tripe, meatballs, etc.--and sawed bones. I add some shank and oxtail (I like the broth pretty rich) for the overnight simmer. My biggest problem is getting a proper burn on the onion and ginger in my electric oven. I think I'll buy a Burnz-o-matic and torch them next time.

Phô in Montréal restaurants isn't served with cilantro in the 'salad'--it's already in the soup, and, in my opinion, is too sparse. And we never get mint leaves. Are mint leaves generally served? First time I had them I really liked what they added to the aroma, but they appear only infrequently.

Geo

Geo wrote:My local has a service meat and fish dept. They offer a most wonderful thing: a phô kit! It contains everything you need for a dac biet version, including all the various meats--tendon, tripe, meatballs, etc.--and sawed bones. I add some shank and oxtail (I like the broth pretty rich) for the overnight simmer.

Nice! I'm having a hard time finding a good source for tendon and tripe. Around here it's mostly big grocery stores and they don't have a real butcher (usually they have one, but get in boneless primals...). There's one local butcher (who traffics in local/organic meat), and I think he's buys full sides of beef, but doesn't have shanks, tendon, or tripe. I need to see if he can work with his slaughterhouse to get those parts included. And he charges too much for bones ($2.50+/lb!). One small local grocery with a proper butcher has cheap bones (which is where I sourced those neck and marrow bones), but definitely no tendon or tripe.

Geo wrote:My biggest problem is getting a proper burn on the onion and ginger in my electric oven. I think I'll buy a Burnz-o-matic and torch them next time.

I had fired up my Weber to roast some red peppers and grill a steak, so I did it over the live coals. In my electric oven would be tough.

Geo wrote:Phô in Montréal restaurants isn't served with cilantro in the 'salad'--it's already in the soup, and, in my opinion, is too sparse. And we never get mint leaves. Are mint leaves generally served? First time I had them I really liked what they added to the aroma, but they appear only infrequently.

In my experience, there's usually mint, but the mix changes from restaurant to restaurant. For instance, I know some places include Vap Ca (the slightly fishy smelling herb), but I can't remember which (or perhaps it's seasonal?).

-Dan

Going to try this soon myself.

Any decent and not terribly expensive sources for meat? In the NW or west burbs. Thanks!

Any decent and not terribly expensive sources for meat? In the NW or west burbs?

.

Marketplace on Oakton in Skokie is very dependable and inexpensive, and there's a full-service butcher always available if you don't find what you need in the enormous meat case. I've seen everything mentioned in all of the foregoing posts with regularity, including oxtails, a tough get anymore.

Marketplace on Oakton
4817 W OAKTON
SKOKIE, IL 60077
PH.: 847.677.9330