Love's labour lost: should I bother learning to cook Indian?

After recently satisfying a long-lingering craving for Indian food by picking up a half-dozen dishes to take home, I had a brief crush on the idea of finding a good Indian cookbook (with glossy photos, of course!) and teaching myself how to make some of those delightful dishes at home.

Before that, all I'd really gotten good at (to my taste, at least) were a vegetable curry and chicken tikka masala, based on Cook's Illustrated recipes that I was delighted to find.

I got Suvir Saran's Indian Home Cooking from the library, read it cover to cover, and got all psyched.

My first two attempts, alas, were disappointing. Murgh kurma (chicken in a sweet, creamy white sauce) ended up looking nothing like the picture, looking nothing like and tasting little like what I brought home from the Peacock in Vernon Hills, and not achieving a sufficiently satisfying work-to-pleasure ratio. Now, the cookbook version relied on a complex mix of spices and made the house smell wonderful, while the take-home version was basically a sweet, creamy, buttery, bland white sauce, but upon tasting, I did prefer the latter. I couldn't help wishing I'd just brought home a big order of that and spiced it up myself at home.

Similarly, although I faithfully followed the book's recipe for green (cilantro and mint) chutney, my homemade version burned my tongue and came nowhere near resembling the tiny but delightful-tasting Solo cup of green chutney that I got from Peacock. Plus, the blender cut off a bit of the tip of one of my wooden spoons, putting a bit more fiber than I had intended into the mix. It's possible that it's only the power of suggestion that makes me cough every time I taste my mix.

Oh, and I rubbed one of my eyes right after chopping up the serrano chiles.

I know I shouldn't judge the worth of the journey by the first few steps, but already I'm wondering if I'm likely to get where I want to go. Or, not having grown up in an Indian home, and thus having no frame of reference to rely on, would I be better off to spend time learning things closer to my own heritage (say, shepherd's pie and curry fries).

I'm also wondering, how much of what's served at Indian restaurants do you think is being made from scratch back in the kitchen? Because if I find out they're getting large frozen batches of korma and masala and vindaloo sauce, and jars of green chutney and tamarind chutney, and bags of frozen samosas, from some big Indian markets downtown, then this library book is going right back, and all I really need to know is where are they shopping.

Have you checked out the classes listed here:

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16065

I haven't tried her classes, but I know people who have, and they speak very highly of the experience.

here's another related thread on Indian cooking that you might find helpful.

shyne

I don't think you should give up. Indian cuisine is in fact very easy to produce at home. However, bear in mind that there are many restaurant dishes that are difficult to duplicate in a home kitchen and, generally, Indian home cooking bears little resemblance to food cooked in Indian restaurants.

I would suggest Madhur Jaffrey's Introduction to Indian Cooking. This has numerous recipes that are great for people just venturing into cooking this cuisine. Start with some simple dishes and soon you will get the hang of basic Indian cooking techniques.

If you pm me I would be happy to offer additional advice and recipe suggestions.

Jyoti

Thanks for the encouragement, and for the pointer to the other thread.

I do recommend to any other Indian food beginners like me those two Cooks Illustrated recipes, for vegetable curry and chicken tikka masala. I have leftovers of both in the freezer, as insurance against that cold, dark, January night when the wind chill is 20 below and I just can't face another plate of roasted root vegetables.

On the way to learning the chicken tikka masala recipe, I discovered that chicken breasts marinated in the yogurt-spice mixture and then cooked under the broiler are so juicy and delicious that you just have to slice up at least one and eat it straight rather than putting it in the masala sauce.

I was out a little while ago and thought I'd stop by the Spice Bazaar (in a strip mall on Rte 60 in Vernon Hills) for inspiration. I found the owners and employees in the process of moving all the inventory into a larger space two doors down. I guess that means business is good. They said they'd have everything moved and the new shelves stocked by tomorrow, and I said I'd be back.

I'll report back on my progress.

I suggest looking at the videos at vahrevah.com.

He takes you through the whole process and it gives you a basis for how the dish should turn out.

The chef actually lived in the Chicago area in the 90's (he had Sizzle restaurant on Devon) and is from my hometown.

As I have posted elsewhere, I've been pretty happy with "Classic Indian Cooking" by Julie Sahni, modeled after Marcella Hazan's Italian books of similar name. It doesn't have all the dishes I want to try, but I've had good results. It also details cooking techniques and an understanding of how the ingredients work in the dishes.

I don't think it's that hard to reproduce restaurant flavors, with the exception that few of us will have an oven that can get to tandoor temps, and that the cooking is time consuming: you need long simmers, which is why the buffet places don't suck, and why I've seen a couple places hack a frozen chunk of curry off for reheating, and it's just fine. That time factor may cause you to take shortcuts, like not making chicken tikka first, before making your masala sauce. That's OK too.

Slow cookers can be your friend (see "The Indian Slow Cooker" by Anupy Singla, an occasional LTH poster).

Grilled dishes are hardly a challenge: a spicy marinade, possibly yogurt-based, and grill on high. Hardly something to be discouraged about.

There's also a number of Indian cuisines, and I don't claim knowledge of more than a bit of Moghul, and one or two other recipes that aren't. I'd love to figure out if I can make an arm-sized dosa at home.

To answer your title question succintly, yes.
Julie Sahni as mentioned is the 'go to' author for me.
Penzy's Indian Spice Blends are excellent. My blends just never had the quality/taste of Penzy's.
Some of your problems appear to be attention to detail/experience. You can purchase disposable nyplex type gloves from Sams Club and they are ever present in my kitchen. Never use your blender without the top in place and/or with an implement while blending.
As to duplicating restaurant quality, it takes time and effort. Indian cuisine is one of the most complex spiced cuisines in the world. Fat in the form of oils, ghee are used extensively to make up for the lack of animal protein/fat calories in vegetarian dishes. I also use a blend of mustard and soy oil sold by Patel's on Devon AV. The 100% mustard oils are labeled "for external use only". I've read all the literature and the usage has not affected us, yet.
Expect to spend some time, many repetitions until you make some dishes that you like.
You can't make them all to the quality that an experienced Indian Chef does, so make what you can that is good and forget the bad.
For your chilantro/mint chutney, add salt.
As to where restaurants get thier supplies and do they make on site all they sell,
I suspect Patel's supplies a vast majority of the supplies and since I don't purchase or eat pre made Indian cusine items, I really could't comment except that what I eat on Devon Av certainly seems to be made on site.-Dick

Katie. DO NOT GIVE UP!
I use shortcuts all the time, and nothing comes out the same way twice, but, I'm not one to follow recipes religously anyway. Some of the masala mixes can be great time savers (I use Shan brand, but only about half of the amount called for on their recipes on the box since they are way too salty.) The thing for me when it's Indian night is this: You gotta plan to take the time to do it right with a lot of things. I haven't found any jarred sauce, or frozen meal worth anything, and the shelf stable food pouches are generally disgusting, imo.

It's worth it to keep at it.

I'm sure many an Indian / Pakistani family would scoff at my method, but when I have time to create, it comes out well, and I am a pretty harsh judge on myself.

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=26392

seebee wrote:...and the shelf stable food pouches are generally disgusting, imo.

A bit of a threadjack: the madras lentils and chana masala that Costco sells are delicious, but not particularly Indian tasting, more like chili with a couple weird spices.

Hi,

Since jygach chimed in, I will repeat some advice she offered me. I had wanted to make bhel puri, which is an Indian street food of various fried cereals, boiled potatoes, chopped onions and cilantro with sauces on top of various heat levels. I was going to buy many cereals and ingredients for the sauce separately to mix together on my own.

Jyoti suggested buying a kit with almost everything needed, because I'd otherwise buy a number of ingredients separately I may never need again. I bought the kit to at least see how it went. The next time, I bought a bag of mixed cereals for bhel puri as well as a jar of sauce for bhel puri. I have yet to go full out custom buying individual cereals and sauce ingredients, because what I have done pretty satisfied my needs and curiosity.

I dropped my prejudice of buying some prepared sauce packets for at least an initial effort. If I find I like it or want to amend to my tastes, then I can always go for all the spices and ingredients to make what I want.

***

Raghavan Iyer spoke some years ago at Culinary Historians when his book 660 Curries, The Gateway to Indian Cooking was initially published. He explained how taking the same spices, but varying how your prepared them would create different tastes. He has a new book out called Indian Cooking Unfolded, which may be worth asking your library for a copy.

On LTHforum, there are several step by step posts by sazerac related to Indian cooking. A few of these I have made to please my Indian brother-in-law. If he lived closer, I might have had incentive to try more Indian cooking.

Regards,

I don't know if any recent posters noticed that my original post was six years ago, but I must admit, I gave up long ago. But I am impressed by the recent interest in the thread and am up for giving Indian cooking another try, with the help of all the new suggestions. I am also going to look for "Classic Indian Cooking" at the library. I have heard a few radio interviews with Raghavan Iyer and will keep an eye out for "660 Curries" as well.

I don't think you should give up. But having married into an Indian family I know that their home cooking tastes nothing like what is in the restaurants. Its still delicious. One of my favorite dishes is masala dosa and it can be reproduced at home but its still not like the restaurant version that apparently uses big griddles. The cooking I am used to at home is Kerala cooking which is much different than what you will get at restaurants. I've given up trying to do an exact reproduction but I do still attempt the indian dish here and there. I've got quite a few cook books.

Toria,

There is a Keralan caterer in Glenview who prepares food to order.

Royal Malabar, Inc
911 Greenwood Rd
Glenview, IL 60025
(847) 998-5635

They used to be in Chicago. Well before there was LTHforum, there was a party at Mike G's home organized online with food coming from Malabar. This same meal RST proposed everyone order take out, then go home to dine and discuss while online.

Regards,

Thanks Cathy. It sounds interesting.

I have 1 Madhur Jaffrey book (glossy, gorgeous photos), and have had very good results from it. The only issue for me is that because Indian is not part of my core repertoire, every time I do it, I have to go spice shopping from scratch and that gets expensive (though it's enormous fun as well).
You also might want to try to find a book, the name and author of which I can give you almost no help with. (How great is that?)
About a year ago, on WBEZ, an Indian-American woman was interviewed. She was, or had been, a journalist, but somehow had ended up producing a book on real Indian home cooking. (The book may even have been vegetarian, but that I don't recall.) She was talking a lot about how people are very intimidated by the richness and complexity of Indian restaurant food, but that is special occasion food. Indian cooking at home is delicious, but not so rich nor so difficult to do. The book sounded very interesting and well done. I believe it got some very good press as well. Alas, I've forgotten all other details about it. I tried searching on Amazon, but didn't find anything that looked like it. However, a query to WBEZ might well produce it. I also can't recall if she was local (Chicago), or from elsewhere in the states.
Sorry for how vague that all is, but is seemed as if it might speak to your needs, if anyone could find it.

It may be Anupy Singla's Vegan Indian Cooking. She was a journalist, lives in Chi and has done a great job of demystifying Indian cuisine. Most of the recipes are for a slow cooker. She's also got a second book and is working on her third.

This recipe for Butter Chicken http://www.nytimes.com/recipes/1016754/ ... icken.html appeared in the New York Times Magazine on Sunday. We made it Sunday evening. It really was a simple recipe.

We didn't marinate the thighs overnight. They were in the yogurt/lemon marinade for about 8 hours, which seemed to be plenty. The recipe called for full fat Greek yogurt - which isn't so easy to find. We used Krinos 3.5% fat Greek yogurt for the marinade which worked out fine.

The cooking times in the recipe seem long to me. Ours was done sooner. If you make this you'll want to keep an eye on the meat temps so the chicken does not overcook.

Other than that, this was very easy and very rich and flavorful.

Every time this thread is resurrected I feel inspired again, which, it occurs to me only now, probably means I really do want to learn how to cook at least some favorite Indian dishes at home. Thanks, bw77, for posting the link to the NY Times recipe for butter chicken. I think I'll start my reboot with that.

I read through the recipe again and it does call for a full stick of butter to sauté the onion. We cut back on that because it just didn't seem necessary.

If you go to the comments section after the article which accompanied the butter chicken recipe, http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/magaz ... .html?_r=0 , there is quite a debate as to whether this recipe actually is for butter chicken. Some argue that butter chicken must be cooked in a Tandoori oven first and that this is a recipe for Chicken Tikka Masala. Others state that butter chicken never has onions and that no Indian cook would cook chicken like this with the skin on. Still others argue that the chicken must be in chunks or on the bone. What I take from that is - Just wing it, if it tastes good to you, then you have passed the most important test.

I have recipes for Murgh (not Tikka) Masala, and for Murgh Makhani in Julie Sahni's "Classic Indian Cooking", and while similar, there are differences. The Makhani does indeed start with 2/3 recipe of Tandoori Chicken (2 2-lb chickens' worth), but I've been happy to start with diced boneless, and upping the spices just a bit to offset. The Masala calls for cut-up whole chicken (not pre-cooked). Make sure you brown the pieces well (as opposed to adding to stewing liquid).

The Masala is a lot more strongly seasoned, having onions, garlic, red pepper, turmeric, cinnamon and cardamom. Both have cumin (powder at the start, ground roasted seeds to garnish), the Makhani using garam masala and parika. Because the chicken is pre-cooked, the Makhani (and Chicken Tikka Masala) are quick dishes: the sauce can be made in probably 20 minutes from pre-cooked chicken (a restaurant favorite), versus 45 minutes of simmering plus 20 minutes of browning onions in the Masala.

I'd guess that either recipe can be made with grilled, tandoori or even supermarket rotisserie chicken to good satisfaction. I tend to futz with the recipes, adding cream or yogurt to the oniony masala, or more spices to the butter-and-cream makhani (often using yogurt instead of cream because it's in the fridge all the time). Am I authentic? Doubtful. Are my dishes delicious? I think so, I've never had any complaints.

The recipes an be found on the web: Murgh Makhani, Murgh Masala

bw77 wrote:... it does call for a full stick of butter to sauté the onion. We cut back on that because it just didn't seem necessary.

There's no such thing as "too much butter".

Joel,

The recipe above is much different in that it calls for whole uncooked thighs, rather than pre-cooked chicken. The chicken is essentially braised in a yogurt/lemon/turmeric/cumin/chicken stock braising liquid.

Yup, that's recipes for you. If you like it, stick with it. If you don't, then mess with it.

I know this thread is old but I didnt see reference to Vahchef on youtube. With indian it helps to see the videos as it kind of has its own technique. Vahchef is the best cooking channel on youtube for ANY cuisine imo.

https://www.youtube.com/user/vahchef