Manhattan Clam Chowder

I like everything about Manhattan: the people, the drink named after the place, the chowder. Unfortunately, it seems that most places that serve chowders, from diners to more deluxe joints, focus on the creamier New England version – okay, but not my cup of soup.

As I make last minute plans for Xmas dinner, I’m thinking a Manhattan clam chowder might be in order (main course is a smoked Waygu brisket, so a piquant, light soup seems right). Never made it before. So, I’m in search recipes and any hints people might have about preparing it.

Hammond

PS. Will I go to hell if I use canned clams?

Addendum:

Okay, so besides posting a query on this board, I also searched for recipes on other sites, and I came across a recipe for Manhattan Clam Chowder on Cooks. com. The FIRST two items in the recipe: 1 can of Campbell's Manhattan Clam Chowder and 2 cans of New England Clam Chowder.

I can't make this up:

http://www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,1628,158164-224205,00.html

Using this recipe is, I believe, a guaranteed ticket to hell.

Hammond

David Hammond wrote:As I make last minute plans for Xmas dinner, I’m thinking a Manhattan clam chowder might be in order (main course is a smoked Waygu brisket, so a piquant, light soup seems right). Never made it before. So, I’m in search recipes and any hints people might have about preparing it.

I haven't made it, but I have made New England clam chowder and Bermuda Fish Chowder (similar brothy red soup). I used frozen chopped clams for my chowder and they were fine. You have to not boil them, though. Just simmer gently. For the fish chowder, the important thing is the stock. So make sure to use good fresh veggies, etc - no frozen soup mix vegetables.

David,

This time of year, just after NYE, I make cioppino, siete mares, bouillabaisse, caldeirada de peixe, and any other kind of zesty shellfish stew that I can come up with. The first day is best, and then it gets better. After all of the big critters are gone and I am left with bits and parts in a slurry on the bottom of the pot, I start adding heavy cream and butter. The soup evolves over two or three days. The seafood stores really stock up on shellfish for NYE to meet the demands of many ethnicities. On New Years Day or the 2d, the shellfish are still frozen or alive, depending, but much cheaper. Nothing like a hot, spicy seafood broth on a bitterly cold day to start detoxing. I've never even considered Manhattan clam chowder. Never met one I liked, I guess. Plus, I couldn't resist adding some langostinos and oysters, and saffron and chiles and olive oil.

Back to your question: I would use both a high-quality canned or frozen clam/liquor product for your long-cooked base and fresh clams to finish. The canned/frozen stuff comes from bigass tasty clams that benefit from long cooking. Like conch, you really don't want to eat them fresh anyway, unless they were alive five minutes ago and were cut up by Katsu. I get huge cans of very good wild N. Atlantic clams (Seawatch brand) at Costco. It's all clam and clam juice. That's your base, along with your tomatoes, oil, chiles en adobo, and whatnot. Five or ten minutes before dinner time, throw your scrubbed littlenecks/razors/mahoganies/ whatevers into the boiling pot, cover, and turn off the flame. A middle gound might involve frozen bellies from smaller clams, which I have seen. A good option if you don't want clam shells in your soup. But what kind of person doesn't want clam shells in their soup?

Hi David,

From a flavor perspective, there is only one way to go and that is with fresh clams. Don't mess around with littlenecks, mahoganies, cockles, etc...too delicate for chowder. Because you pretty much can't get chowder clams/quahogs in these parts, you want to go to your cherrystones, which seem to run pretty large, especially if you hand pick them at an Issacson and Stein, or a Rubio Brothers (right around the corner from I&S). Remember not to pick any that are opening up/ bubbling unless they close back up when being picked up.

You can go two ways. The first way and best in my opinion, is to shuck those cherrystones raw, preserving that briny flavor for your pot, or, after a thorough rinsing, gently steaming the clams open in a small amount of water. Either way, you need to strain any sand and/or shell from that precious liquor, and then hand cut the clam pieces, which won't need any further cooking. Just a quick reheat in the chowder.

Next is your fat/pork product. While highly untraditional, I like to use salt pork, pancetta, or even sweet Italian sausage for my Manhattan chowder. After sauteeing this, add your mirepoix of celery, onion, carrot, leek, and bell pepper. Saute until veggies are soft but not browned. Add a bit of chopped garlic and a touch of tomato paste.

For your broth, supplement that fresh clam juice with either chicken or fish stock and some canned tomato juice. Add canned, diced tomato and your diced potato at this point. Bring to a simmer, and cook until potatoes are tender. At this point, finish your chowder with rough cut italian parsley and a big knob of whole butter, and of course freshly ground black pepper. A generous dash of Old Bay couldn't hurt either. Finish with a dash of tabasco and Lea and Perrins. Add the clams and you're ready to serve. Salt if needed.

To really amp up that clam flavor, get some good quality clam base like Minor's (from Paulina) but remember that with bases, less is more. Add the base while sauteeing your mirepoix.

Evil Ronnie wrote:Hi David,

From a flavor perspective, there is only one way to go and that is with fresh clams.

Evil, this is the second time today that LTH has talked me off the ledge. We're having a small Xmas dinner (5 people) -- you think 3 dozen clams is right? To open them, as I'm an impatient guy, I think I will gently steam, conserving/straining the steam water, and adding that to the fish stock. I really like the idea of Italian sausage -- may go that route.

JeffB, thanks for the thought about January 2 fish sales -- I'll keep that in mind.

Really appreciate the input (however, leek, though my reputation for being a lazy-ass is now universal, I was pained that you felt you needed to warn me against frozen vegetables -- I understand you had every reason to suspect that I might).

Hammond

Three dozen cherrystones will be perfect.

Ronnie, my big can of clams serves the same purpose, more or less, as the fish stock. I also use dried shrimp, bacalao and anchovies. Far from fresh, but awfully fishy. (Not for everyone; this is why my favorite Thai is stuff like mackerel with shrimp paste nam prik.) I am intrigued by your mention of Minor's clam base. I have beef and veal in the fridge, but never noticed the clam. Sounds like a must. I can't disagree that a soup that is all clam should be made of fresh ones. Clams are just the backdrop for what I'm usually doing.

By the way, the mahoganies stand up pretty well for small clams. When they are available at Costco, I'm happy. I shuck clams all week for pennies a clam.

Your pork reference reminds me, clams and chorizo in white beer. . .

Evil Ronnie wrote:A generous dash of Old Bay couldn't hurt either. Finish with a dash of tabasco and Lea and Perrins. Add the clams and you're ready to serve. Salt if needed.

I view Manhattan Clam Chowder as a Rhode Island/Portuguese derived dish, what with the tomatoes, clams, potatoes and pork substance that are its key flavor elements.

With that in mind, the taste that's looked for here, I think, is to finish with thyme, dried (leaf better than rubbed, and careful, not too much) or fresh. And not so sure Old Bay is the taste that's wanted here

Tomato paste seems kind of sweet, I prefer a good quality canned tomato (San Maranzano never hurts), slice ((filetto) the tomatoes and use the liquid too. Forget the canned chopped tomatoes, they rarely have good flavor.

Variation: in the mirepoix, a small bit of hot capsicum, such as thai chile or red finger pepper or crushed red pepper (again, not too much) or other. Enables reducing the amount of ground pepper at the end.

Beginner's advice. Don't add salt until AFTER you add clams. The salt level of fresh clams varies greatly.

Glad you brought up the stock thing. Although fish stock blended with chicken stock is best, few outside of good commercial kitchens have this around. Defatted home made chicken stock works well, and is a solid supporting complement to the flavor of the pork substance and potates. Probably even better than fish stock is shrimp stock made from shells (where all the fat resides), but again, a rare home kitchen item.

That said, you can cook for me anytime!

Hey Steve, excellent to hear from you again, and I appreciate the guidance (never made Manhattan clam chowder before, so I need whatever help I can get).

I just got off the phone with Whole Foods (my neighborhood source for clams), and I was hoping I could get them to save me some fish bones for stock. They say, at this time of year, they buy only filets, which I find unbelievable, but that’s how they told me “no.” With that being the case, I’m thinking I may just make a chicken stock (buy some legs, wings, etc) and use that as the base or part of the base; if I can locate some fish bones in the next 24 hours, I’ll make a fish stock and combine both chicken and fish, as you suggest. I’d been toying with knocking together a Coquille St. Jacques for an appetizer, and I could make essentially the same dish with shrimp rather than (or in addition to) scallops, and just use the shells for the stock…hmm.

I don’t think we have any Bay’s on hand, but I have a bag of chili ancho from the Chili Man at Maxwell Street Market, so I figured one or two of those might provide the heat you suggest adding to the mirepoix.

Interesting you feel the canned chopped tomatoes are inferior to the canned marzano tomatoes – I’m going to Caputo’s today (for sausage at Evil’s suggestion), and can definitely get the marzanos (and using the juice makes perfect sense, too – I was feeling odd about the tomato juice, but perhaps that was suggested to give “body” to the broth?).

Everyone whose responding to this thread has given me something to think about, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the insights born of experience I ain’t got. Sincere thanks and gratitude.

Hammond

Dirk's had two gigantic clams with about 8 inch necks earlier this week. I did not even inquire the price, having blown a wad on wild salmon for gravad lax. I did get a taste of fresh (never frozen) king crab, it was wonderful, it is the texture that suffers from freezing more than the taste, but that some also.

On the stock vs. whatever controversy, having been raised by a child of the Depression who routinely went to our local (NY) fishmonger, where the Japanese community that was arriving in NY in the 1970s (think corporate, diplomatic, big money, expense accounts, high standards) would come from about a 30 mile radius to buy fish.

Anyway, she would walk in to the (Greek) fishmonger, look at and smell everything, then ask if they had any fish collars in the back, usually get them for free or for pennies, and then buy about a pound of cod, or something similarly thrifty. We feasted on sea squab (A fancy name for blowfish, given to blowfish to inflate sales) often, something my Detroit-born mother had never seen, but one of the fish guys told her how his mother cooked it.

So, long story short, my thrifty mom made lots of chowder. Yes to pork, but no to broth would be her advice. And no less a culinary personage than Jacques Pepin has said that water is one of the most underrated and underappreciated ingredients in cooking. Using water will let the clams, tomatoes, pork, and thyme (which I and my mom would endorse) really sing.

And her routine greeting to the fishmongers was a cheerful "hello, you robbers."

annieb wrote:So, long story short, my thrifty mom made lots of chowder. Yes to pork, but no to broth would be her advice. And no less a culinary personage than Jacques Pepin has said that water is one of the most underrated and underappreciated ingredients in cooking. Using water will let the clams, tomatoes, pork, and thyme (which I and my mom would endorse) really sing.

That's a beautiful line about water being the most underrated and underappreciated ingredient, but my fear is that the "broth" will be a little thin if I don't enhance it, if only a little, with a chicken and/or fish stock. I'm a beginner, and the fear of failure is great; I feel I may need training wheels for my first pass at chowder.

Hammond

annieb wrote:...Anyway, she would walk in to the (Greek) fishmonger, look at and smell everything, then ask if they had any fish collars in the back, usually get them for free or for pennies, and then buy about a pound of cod, or something similarly thrifty. We feasted on sea squab (A fancy name for blowfish, given to blowfish to inflate sales) often, something my Detroit-born mother had never seen, but one of the fish guys told her how his mother cooked it...

annieb:

Ah, the noble 'blowfish', a.k.a. '(northern) puffer'... This fish is, as you say, one of the few that often bears a different name on the plate than it does on the fin, as it were. But in my part of New Netherland the fishmongers had generally pushed the name "chicken of the sea" (I also was aware of the thematically related "sea squab" label; apparently the latter was more common in the Empire State while the former in the Garden State). Jersey and Long Island are usually the northern end of their range but I believe they were more commonly eaten up our way than elsewhere (folks from further south, please correct me if I'm wrong; they are or were found to a degree further north in New England too and I don't know whether they were popular as food there either). A really delicious fish that cost next to nothing when I was a kid -- it was also plentiful and easily caught and we caught them often enough. But at some point, the population seems to have crashed. My folks inform me that there has been something of a minor comeback but for many years they were absent from the markets.

...but no to broth would be her advice. And no less a culinary personage than Jacques Pepin has said that water is one of the most underrated and underappreciated ingredients in cooking. Using water will let the clams, tomatoes, pork, and thyme (which I and my mom would endorse) really sing.

It's hard to disagree with Jacques and this matter of stock vs. water is an interesting one. For lots of traditional Italian dishes, where stock would seem to be a natural choice, tradition calls for water (cucina povera!). But I find that it's nice every once in a while to use stock where I usually use water and water where I often use stock. Interaction of ingredients and their relative prominence is the overarching principle, and I can see the rationale behind the simple and focussed approach you and your mother prefer in making this dish. On the other hand, there is also obviously much to be said for the alchemical magic of more complex recipes, such as the one Evil Ronnie describes above.

Either way, this thread is making me hungry.

Antonius

if I can locate some fish bones in the next 24 hours, I’ll make a fish stock

I'll bet Issacson & Stein have them.

Bruce wrote:

if I can locate some fish bones in the next 24 hours, I’ll make a fish stock

I'll bet Issacson & Stein have them.

At the risk of hijacking the original post, when it comes to imparting flavor to fish stock, not all fish carcasses are created equal.

ex: Snapper, bad (no flavor). Sea trout, cod, halibut, good. Perhaps evilronnie might chime in here.

For manhattan chowder, really, chicken stock is fine, IF you get plenty of good quality Quahog type chowder clams. Quahogs, which run 2-5", can be really tough to open, though. You might have to steam in scant liquid (say the liquid from the tomatoes, or a little water), strain the liquid and pour it in, meanwhile chopping the clams into pieces less than 1/4".

David, you have all my confidence, be a friend to the clams.

Steve Drucker wrote:At the risk of hijacking the original post, when it comes to imparting flavor to fish stock, not all fish carcasses are created equal.

ex: Snapper, bad (no flavor). Sea trout, cod, halibut, good. Perhaps evilronnie might chime in here.

For manhattan chowder, really, chicken stock is fine, IF you get plenty of good quality Quahog type chowder clams.

Hey Steve,

I'm surprised to hear you think snapper is bad; I actually thought this meaty white fish made good stock (but I've made fish stock only on rare occasions, so am no expert). I did, however, know that salmon is bad, though I'm not entirely sure why.

I may have to go with chicken stock, seasoned with precious clam liquor. No local places seem to clean fish this time of year; it's all filets (however, I didn't try I&S: distance, parking, etc. prohibit the thought). I got some big cherrystones that are now sitting in a cold saltwater bath.

Hammond

David

David Hammond wrote: I got some big cherrystones that are now sitting in a cold saltwater bath.

Hammond

David

Throw a little cornmeal in the salt water bath to help expel all of the grit.

stevez wrote:

David Hammond wrote: I got some big cherrystones that are now sitting in a cold saltwater bath.

Hammond

David

Throw a little cornmeal in the salt water bath to help expel all of the grit.

I did do that, but what is the mechanism of operation here? Do the clams "eat" the cornmeal? I'm curious how the cornmeal is effective in getting them to expel grit.

Hammond

David Hammond wrote: No local places seem to clean fish this time of year; it's all filets (however, I didn't try I&S: distance, parking, etc. prohibit the thought).

Hammond, do your local places include the fishmonger across the street from Caputos (Harlem Ave.; Elmwood Park)? Haven't been there in years, but have been happy with them in the past (at different time of year though).
Looking forward to your Chowder, post that is.

sazerac wrote:

David Hammond wrote: No local places seem to clean fish this time of year; it's all filets (however, I didn't try I&S: distance, parking, etc. prohibit the thought).

Hammond, do your local places include the fishmonger across the street from Caputos (Harlem Ave.; Elmwood Park)? Haven't been there in years, but have been happy with them in the past (at different time of year though).
Looking forward to your Chowder, post that is.

Sazerac, I have not yet made my trip to Caputo's -- probably in the next few hours. I will stop at the store you mention (Mercato del Pesce) -- and if I can't get some bones there, I'm a givin' up. I figure, though, with a pot of fresh chicken stock simmering, and liquor from a few dozen clams (and maybe a bottle of clam juice?), I should be in pretty good shape with or without the fish stock...though I would like to add that to the mix.

Hammond

Steve,

I've got to say that I disagree with you on the snapper stock. Not as rich as my favorite, turbot or John Dory(we're talking a lot of gelatin here),but certainly not bad in my opinion
Other excellent fish bones for stock include grouper (with the head making up 45-50% of the total weight of the fish, this one makes an especially rich stock), sole, and halibut.

David,

To quote Gary, "You done flung a cravin' on me". I just got back Rubio Bros. with 4 dozen large cherrystones for my own pot of New England chowder.

Gotta start shuckin'

Well, I ended up with an excellent broth...but too few clams to please me. I think, in the future, I'll plan on a dozen or more clams per person -- that seems like a lot, but in retrospect I think it will be about right.

Steve, thanks for the hint about the San Marzano tomatoes and other pointers.

Evil, the Italian sausage was an excellent addition, your general receipe was an excellent guideline.

Sincerely appreciate all the help,

Hammond

David Hammond wrote:Steve, thanks for the hint about the San Marzano tomatoes and other pointers.

Advanced Red Clam Chowder secret ingredient: saffron threads. I promise, think of the flavor profile--clams, tomato, garlic, pork, potato, onion/celery/garlic, thyme...add the saffron 2/3 of the way through.

New England Clam Chowder, not Manhattan, but didn't want to start an new chowder thread. Read a few recipes on the internet, and the two in my files, then winged it. Jotted notes and will write a recipe and post.

First time making clam chowder, that I remember, turned out tasty if I do say so myself. The bride gave thumbs up and had seconds. Oh, and pickles go surprisingly well with rich creamy clam chowder, pickle cuts the richness. (Got the idea from one of the recipes in my file from a New England based BBQ guy who caters lobster boils and clam roasts)

I think it really should be a different thread, or if that takes up too much space on the internet, a thread title change to "Clam Chowder." We could take a poll, or create a Venn diagram, but I'd guess many fans of New England clam chowder have absolutely no interest in Manhattan clam chowder and would never go looking in a thread by that title for insights on New England clam chowder.

Bought some clams today, was thinking about clam chowder, but went Clams w/Bucatini.

annieb wrote:And no less a culinary personage than Jacques Pepin has said that water is one of the most underrated and underappreciated ingredients in cooking.

The more I cook the more I appreciate/understand this wisdom.

Two excellent titles on Netflix support your appreciation of water in cooking:

--“Cooked” is based on Michael Pollan’s outstanding book of the same name, which mixes history, science, technique and personal anecdotes in a very readable discourse on cooking.

--“ Salt-Fat-Acid-Heat” is another four-chapter series that follows a very likable Samin Nosrat as she travels the world (beautiful travelogue shots) and cooks with people who are experts in some facet of food.

Both shows tout the importance of water in cooking and are worth your time. WARNING: Do not watch while on a diet or without plenty of food in the house.