Vital Information wrote: The classic Belgium frite is firm on the surface and fluffy within, from double frying. These were hard all around. I know I'm not the only one to be non-plussed by the fries as Crain's knocked them too. I'm hoping they can rectify things going forward with a slower operation, some better lipid (if you don't want an animal fat, how 'bout peanut oil?), and hopefully the two-step process.

Rob,

Exactly. The paper cone and mayo and such are all secondary chichi -- the quality of the potato and careful handling thereof, culminating with the second fry, that's what makes real fritten/frites. How disappointing this news is... but not completely surprising. Isn't the owner from the Netherlands, not Belgium? Not at all to say that Dutchmen can't make excellent fritten, but I just think it less likely a Belgian would take unacceptable shortcuts with one of his nation's culinary trademarks...

Hopefully, the people at this fritkot will find the true path... Meanwhile...

Vive la Belgique! Leve België!

A

They had been distributing 10% off coupons earlier in the week and last Friday. Here's a link to print one from the internet.

... Since posting just above, I thought back to my visit to the market last week and focussed on what I saw at the fritkot... I clearly remember seeing baskets of fries that had been cooked suspended over the vats of fat (which were at the moment idle as there were no patrons just then), which indicates, it would seem, that they DO use a double-fry method to some degree at least... But if that's all they had on hand -- a couple of baskets worth -- it seems when they're busy they will quickly fall behind, which could explain VI's disappointing experience described above.

I didn't really check out the set-up carefully -- just scanned the place as we walked slowly by -- but I do not remember seeing the large draining station that characterised the set-up of each of the many fritkoten I visited in my youth in Belgium. If the folks at the Chicago FM do not have one, they are ill-prepared to get through a busy time without running out of fries that have undergone the first slow cook.

In any event, I intend to give them a visit soon and will then try to see whether they have all the equipment I remember from the places I frequented back in the good old days...

Antonius

I have been at French Market a few times, but I have not been there since the opening of Frietkoten, which was probably one of the most anticipated of all the vendors. When I spoke with the owner, Jeroen Hasenbros, weeks before the market opened, he told me this:

"The secret recipe for Belgian fries in Chicago is they are being double-fried. So you take your potatoes, they’ll be washed to get the starch out, then we fry them first at a lower temperature to cook them. Then you let them cool. Then you fry them at a second, higher temperature just to make them crisp on the outside and then they’re nice and mushy on the inside, and kind of crack when you make them…served in a paper cone…put the sauce on top."

Now, I'm not saying this is the way the fries are made because as mentioned, I've never been there when the fries were being made, but double-frying is the goal, realized or no.

David Hammond wrote:I have been at French Market a few times, but I have not been there since the opening of Frietkoten, which was probably one of the most anticipated of all the vendors. When I spoke with the owner, Jeroen Hasenbros, weeks before the market opened, he told me this:

"The secret recipe for Belgian fries in Chicago is they are being double-fried. So you take your potatoes, they’ll be washed to get the starch out, then we fry them first at a lower temperature to cook them. Then you let them cool. Then you fry them at a second, higher temperature just to make them crisp on the outside and then they’re nice and mushy on the inside, and kind of crack when you make them…served in a paper cone…put the sauce on top."

Now, I'm not saying this is the way the fries are made because as mentioned, I've never been there when the fries were being made, but double-frying is the goal, realized or no.

As I said in my second note, that seemed to be what they were set up for, with the already partly fried potatoes resting in the baskets immediately above the fat-vats, presumably awaiting the arrival of a hungry customer...( though I'm not sure that's the best place to leave the frits resting for any length of time...) ... But it seems pretty likely to me that VI's experience had much to do with them being overly busy and perhaps running out of fully prepped frits...

Antonius

David Hammond wrote:"The secret recipe for Belgian fries in Chicago is they are being double-fried. So you take your potatoes, they’ll be washed to get the starch out, then we fry them first at a lower temperature to cook them.

If the potatoes are only briefly washed prior to cooking, the fries won't turn out too well. The best fries (firm exterior, fluffy interior) use potatoes that were soaked in water for a long time.

Just back from only my second visit since they first opened.
It was around 2:30, so the place was quiet and it was easy to stroll and look and chat. Picked up some smoked mackeral (Crakovia) and smoked salmon (Susie Q) from the City Market to try. Haven't had either before.

The counter guy was almost NY brisk, but also NY friendly---always moving, almost barking, but wishing me a good day and a good weekend and getting me on my way with max. efficiency.

Got some Vern's smoked string cheese (for the boy) and Carr's "Menage" (cow/sheep/goat) from WI Cheese stand. The lady was very happy to talk about things. Almost everything pre-cut was also represented in whole pieces in the neighboring case for a fresh cut if one wanted.

Chundry's curries called to me like aromatic siren's to a hunger-addled Ulysses, but knowing I was headed back to my open cubicle, I had to lash myself to the mast and sail on.

Spent a few pleasant minutes chatting with the very friendly guy at Fumare. The Hunter ham sliced paper thin seemed very good. Smoky but still delicate. Also got some of the Hungarian bacon (garlic and paprika dusted). (We still haven't bought the range hood for our new kitchen, so the fallout from this purchase will be with us for a while.)

Ended up with 2 breads from Necessity: a standard Asiago focaccia and a bread stuffed with a fig-marsala jam.

For today's actual lunch, went with the steak burrito (I forget their name there.) Again, a brisk, hearty friendliness prevailed that reminded me a bit of a rose-tinted movie view of NY. The burrito seemed like terrific value. As big as Chipotle, better flavor (real nice beefy grill char aroma and flavor), and cheaper. Even paying a bit extra for a side of black beans and rice, it came out less than a similar visit to Chipotle.

A good time and a good lunch.

The one negative, which kind of crept up on me as I made my way around, was the failure of several vendors to put prices anywhere where you can see them without asking. Coming in the middle of a work day, needing to make some decisions quickly about how much to spend and on what, I really don't want to have to wait for counter help and then take up both our time pointing and asking about each individual item I'm interested in. The bakery at the south end sort of opposite Lavazza had no prices on anything. Nor did Necessity. Not a huge deal, but my 2 loaves ended up running $15+. That's something I'd have liked a hint about in advance.
This is not a 'if-you-have-to-ask-then-you-can't-afford-it' situation. It's a market. Put up your prices so we can both get on with things.

Then, when I got back to the office I realized that I hadn't seen or smelled the frites! Where are they? Do they shut down really early? Zut!

My only firsthand experience with Frietkoten is from a single visit at the end of December 2009, soon after they opened for business.

Vital Information wrote:The classic Belgium frite is firm on the surface and fluffy within, from double frying.

That's a pretty good description of the frites (or were they mere fries?) I received.



I'm not sure how well this photograph conveys their texture but these fried spuds had irregular, crisp exteriors surrounding the soft, almost fluffy insides. While not the best I've ever had, they were pretty darn good.

Here's a picture (not very good but the only one I have) of their setup.



I'm nearly certain those baskets hold once-fried potatoes awaiting their final bath once an order is placed. I distinctly remember the owner lowering the basket immediately after I ordered.

Vital Information wrote:I'm hoping they can rectify things going forward with a slower operation, some better lipid (if you don't want an animal fat, how 'bout peanut oil?), and hopefully the two-step process.

After I ate I spoke with the owner for a while. We discussed his two-step method and his search to come up with the best potato. He mentioned his plans to add another fryer so he could use animal fats as well as vegetable. I remember him saying, probably correctly, that he didn't think most of his customers would go for that. I asked about the possibility of horse fat and he said that wasn't going to happen.

kanin wrote:If the potatoes are only briefly washed prior to cooking, the fries won't turn out too well. The best fries (firm exterior, fluffy interior) use potatoes that were soaked in water for a long time.

I don't have a good picture of it but above you can just barely make out a large container (rectangular clear plastic) just behind the stainless steel cone. In the half hour I was there, a large batch of cut potatoes remained soaking in water. Is that conical thing the drainer that Antonius mentions above?

It sounds like maybe they got busier sooner than they expected. That's mostly good news but only if they're able to maintain the original quality.

Is that conical thing the drainer that Antonius mentions above?

The conical thingie is the tool they use in Belgium for the final quick drain and salting, just before the fritten are served to the customer.

In most or all the fritkoten I can remember, there was a place for a large quantity of fritten from the first fry to rest and drain. I don't see that in the picture, just fritten in a basket above the fryer-vat, just as I mentioned in my second post above. Perhaps such a spot is there and I'm missing it or perhaps there is one just outside the range of the photo or perhaps they just drain them in the baskets. I'll try to see when I'm next at the market.

Antonius

I can remember in Brussels buying frites from street carts... now I'm consumed by the question, how did they accomplish all that in such a space?

(Incidentally, I don't know if people know this site, but it's very good... though after Elakin told me what temperatures he fries at, I went to the higher temp for the initial fry and the lower one for the second fry, and I have to say I like those better.)

Finally got over there to see it...my reaction is nice idea but I don't know it will survive. Its kind of isolated from the vast majority of those who use the metra station and there is kind of a hassle route to get to it, its not really easily connected to the main station but down stairs by the train or accessed from Canal. Will it attract others from the area or outside the area?

I saw lots of premium looking meats and fish there and wondered who is buying all this.....there has to be the traffic to support this and the economy is not exactly hummming now. I bought a small personal size raspberry tarte and a tube of french macaroons from Vanille. Almost fourteen dollars of this minute haul which comprised my dinner on the train. The tart was very good, the macaroons I could pass....too color saturated for me, flavors indeterminate. Maybe need to try them a gain but they were a dollar and a half a piece for a teeny cookie..........

It seems NYC, Philly and San Fran have thriving markets like this and it would be nice if Chicago could too but I'm not sure this is in the right place to gain momentum or even support itself. I hope it makes a go of it.

I think it gets plenty of traffic from folks who work North of the train station and those, like me, who work near it and go for lunch.

I haven't bought any of the fish yet, but I plan to stop by one day on my way home and pick up something nice for dinner. The guy at the counter even said he might get in something smaller than U-10 scallops (thankfully).

I can tell you that the ready-to-eat places like Pastoral and Saigon Sisters have a line to rival the 18 neighborhood Potbelly's during lunch time.

I bought fish today from the City Fresh Market vendor -- very impressed. They had a varied selection of beautiful looking fish that were competitively priced. The rest of the market looked promising as well.

I just saw this in an email from the Gene Siskel Film Center:

European Union Film Festival & Chicago French Market present "Dinner and a Movie"

Eat at one of the Chicago French Market's participating food vendors between March 5 and April 5, and bring your receipt to the Gene Siskel Film Center for a discount on your movie ticket to the European Union Film Festival (March 5-April 1). Only $8 General Admission, $4 for Gene Siskel Film Center Members.

-or-

Purchase a movie ticket at the Gene Siskel Film Center and bring your ticket stub to one of their participating vendors for 20% off your total meal!

Participating Vendors:
Chicago Organics
Chundy's Bistro
City Fresh Market
FLiP Crepes
Frietkoten Belgian Fries & Beer
RAW.
Saigon Sisters

toria wrote:Finally got over there to see it...my reaction is nice idea but I don't know it will survive. Its kind of isolated from the vast majority of those who use the metra station and there is kind of a hassle route to get to it, its not really easily connected to the main station but down stairs by the train or accessed from Canal. Will it attract others from the area or outside the area?

Only time will tell if it will survive and thrive. However, the fact that its location is inconspicuous also means that that location is probably relatively inexpensive, compared with a more visible location. This is a good thing, because it helps the market's economic viability.

Because of the inconspicuous location, the market will be relying on word to get around, either by word of mouth or by any marketing efforts done by the market (pardon the use of the same word).

Same as with restaurants, I would expect the market's business to be cyclical with the time of day and day of the week. Because of its proximity to offices in the Loop and especially the train station, I would expect them to be busy on weekdays, during lunch hour and the prime commuting times at the start and end of the work day. I visited at an off hour on a week day and it wasn't busy at all, but I wouldn't judge by that. I also suspect that Saturdays are not very busy, although I could be mistaken on that.

I love the idea of having one central market where you can buy high-quality foodstuffs from many vendors, including everything from basics like meats and produce, to prepared items of all kinds. I've been envious when I've visited Seattle's Pike Place Market, Cleveland's West Side Market, and the Milwaukee Public Market, and now we have something comparable. Our French Market also makes it easy to shop there, whether you're using Metra or CTA, or driving (with free validated parking in the lot next door). I hope the new French Market is a huge success, and I plan to take advantage of it as long as it's around.

toria wrote:It seems NYC, Philly and San Fran have thriving markets like this

New York and San Francisco do? Where? I'm not familiar with any in those cities. (I know Philly has the Reading Terminal Market.)

nsxtasy wrote:New York and San Francisco do? Where? I'm not familiar with any in those cities. (I know Philly has the Reading Terminal Market.)

Can't speak for NYC, but the Ferry Building Marketplace in San Francisco certainly counts: individual purveyors of meat, oysters, fish, cheese, bread, salumi, herbs, mushrooms, pastries, and fruits/vegetables (supplemented by the thrice-weekly farmer's market), in addition to some prepared foods and both casual and fancy restaurants. (Apparently, somewhat ironically, the caviar vendor has moved out due to high rents).

Thanks.

Incidentally, just this past weekend, I was in the Grand Central Market in downtown Los Angeles (not to be confused with the Farmer's Market, their other large public market). I liked it, although it was not at all upscale like our French Market tends to be.

New York and San Francisco do? Where? I'm not familiar with any in those cities. (I know Philly has the Reading Terminal Market.)

New York has had a similar market attached to Grand Central Terminal for about 10-12 years.

Can't speak for NYC, but the Ferry Building Marketplace in San Francisco certainly counts: individual purveyors of meat, oysters, fish, cheese, bread, salumi, herbs, mushrooms, pastries, and fruits/vegetables (supplemented by the thrice-weekly farmer's market), in addition to some prepared foods and both casual and fancy restaurants. (Apparently, somewhat ironically, the caviar vendor has moved out due to high rents).

The caviar stall is gone? I was just at the Ferry Market and thought I still saw it there. It was always amazing to walk by and see 2 or 3 people sitting there enjoying their $100 sampler and listening to the opera-singing server. Who eats lunch like that in the middle of the week?

rickster wrote:New York has had a similar market attached to Grand Central Terminal for about 10-12 years.

Thanks. Based on their website, it sounds like it's still pretty small, with only a dozen shops. That doesn't count all the restaurants in the terminal, which have been there for many years (including the famous Oyster Bar, which has been there since Grand Central opened in 1913).

Cities differ in the nature of their local grocery stores, and that's one reason why public markets are more likely to develop in some cities than others. Your neighborhood supermarket in Manhattan is likely to have higher quality and variety than in Chicago, and they have had upscale gourmet shops with a wide variety of high-quality foods (Balducci's, Dean and Deluca, Zabar's) for many many years before Fox & Obel opened here. With the exception of F&O and now the French Market, Chicago has been mostly a city where, when you're preparing to make an elaborate meal, you have to make one stop at the butcher, another at the baker, another at the produce market, etc.

spinynorman99 wrote:The caviar stall is gone? I was just at the Ferry Market and thought I still saw it there.

It was there the last time I was there too, but when I didn't see it on the list of vendors, I did some poking. Here's the most detailed article I saw, and according to Eater, they closed Jan. 13.

New York also has Fairway, which is an amazing, amazing market, everything every excellent supermarket has *plus* meat, fish, and cheese sections which put most specialty stores to shame.

Geo
PS. Luckily for us Montréalers, we have Frites Alors!, started 20 or so years ago by a couple of Belgian students from McGill, IIRC. They're the real thing.

I went to the Chicago French Market located in Ogilvie train station. I read the yelp reviews and most seemed just average, but I had high hopes.
When I arrived, it was around noon and was very crowded. A few vendors had samples out and the lines were forever. Within a half hour, the crowd disappeared. Talk about a lunch ruch. Anyway, I first tried Bowl Square. I ordered 6 vegetable dumplings. After a good wait, I recieved the dumplings. You received a good size portion for the price ($2.50) but the taste fell flat. The worst part was the gyoza was hard around the ends (like uncooked). Second, I went a short distance to Buen Apetito. It is a Mexican stall selling the usual. I ordered chips & salsa along with a ceviche. The chips were under a warmer and were stale, however the salsa (a pico de gallo) was fresh. The ceviche was $6.25 which I thought wasn't bad. That was before I saw the portion. It was about 4oz and included a total of 2 (yes just 2) shrimp (4 halves). Now , I'm not sure if that is the norm or if I got unlucky but I'm expecting shrimp in a shrimp ceviche. Another funny thing is that the salsa for the chips was the ceviche minus the chips. I guarentee it was from the same "master batch".
I know I probably shouldn't expect too much and I seem like I'm complaining but I truely see potential with this place. The meat from Chicago Organics looked awsome and was resonable priced. The fruit from most stall was not the freshest I've ever seen either but the selection was good and the prices were good as well.
All in all, I will be back despite some bad experiences. I did see some things that looked good (Saigon Sisters Bahn Mi, Belgium Fries & Beer) I also sampled a piece off sushi from RAW which was very fresh too say the least. I would'nt mind givin' it a try if I ever get my sushi crave.

Anyone have any recs of good places I may have overlooked?

Wandering out of a train today, I stopped by the French Market, consumed an entirely mediocre bulgogi, and as I walked out, sated but not satisfied, I saw these auric guys. Oh yeah. You know the place I’m talking about.



This shot was taken after the one I picked out had just been lifted out to be scaled for my dinner. My guy had beautiful, clear eyes that screamed Eat Me!

It was about ten bucks for the okay bulgogi and about the same for 1.5 pounds of this beautiful and tasty trout. Pricing at French Market has me a little spooked.

I'll be honest--of all the dining options there, you went with the bulgogi? Honestly?

mtgl wrote:I'll be honest--of all the dining options there, you went with the bulgogi? Honestly?

honestly, what in the world is wrong with ordering bulgogi? justjoan

mtgl wrote:I'll be honest--of all the dining options there, you went with the bulgogi? Honestly?

Last time I visited, there weren't all that many dining options left. They're closing like venus flytraps. I wish the French Market was more successful, but as it is, there is very little traffic (except at peak times, evidently) and very few vendors. This is very sad. Oh, how I long for a real indoor market!

stevez wrote:

mtgl wrote:I'll be honest--of all the dining options there, you went with the bulgogi? Honestly?

Last time I visited, there weren't all that many dining options left. They're closing like venus flytraps.

This may have been posted elsewhere on the board, but in case not:

"Chicago French Market loses some, gains some; Saigon Sisters keep plugging away"

justjoan wrote:

mtgl wrote:I'll be honest--of all the dining options there, you went with the bulgogi? Honestly?

honestly, what in the world is wrong with ordering bulgogi? justjoan

Because you're infinitely better off at Pastoral or Saigon Sisters (my guess).

The Korean place there looks pretty mediocre a priori, a sentiment backed up for me by a thumbs-down from a Korean friend. Despite whatever closings, there are still some really nice, if expensive-ish, places to eat there. Want to splurge on calories? Belgian fries followed by pastry from Vanille! Feeling guilty after that? Nab some free samples from Raw! It seems to be finding its legs, and it's not hard to eat well there. However, if I had to pick two places to avoid, the Korean and Mexican places are them.

Edit: for a typo.