Turkey - Would a BBQ place (Hecky's or Honey1) Smoke my Bird
Turkey - Would a BBQ place (Hecky's or Honey1) Smoke my Bird
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Post #31 - November 10th, 2006, 5:57 pmMike G wrote:Good question. It's obviously at least deflecting some heat, but I don't know if it transmits less heat than the sand, or more; or maybe the sand deflects it for a while, then eventually retains and transmits it... G Wiv or Bruce, any idea?
Mike,
I never use an empty dry waterpan. To me it makes more sense to use, for that type of application, sand in the waterpan. You get the same level of heat, the same blocking of radiant heat/direct flames, the same keep the dripping off the fire so there are no flare-ups and, the added benefit, of the mass of sand helping to stabilize temperature in the WSM.
Enjoy,
Gary
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Post #32 - November 10th, 2006, 6:03 pmMike G wrote:Good question. It's obviously at least deflecting some heat, but I don't know if it transmits less heat than the sand, or more; or maybe the sand deflects it for a while, then eventually retains and transmits it... G Wiv or Bruce, any idea?
The empty water plan will remove the radiant heat effect that direct cooking gives. No grease in the fire flavoring. You will get higher temperatures without the water pan vs. what you would with sand.
A sand filled water pan will absorb a lot of energy/heat before it becomes a heat sink. The main benefit of sand in the pan is temperature stability and a drier heat.
I'm not a fan of using an empty water pan. I don't see any benefits.
I don't know if the above answers the questions, I'm a little medicated and not quite sure I'm understanding the questions (?).
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Post #33 - November 13th, 2006, 1:46 pmG Wiv wrote:Mike G wrote:Good question. It's obviously at least deflecting some heat, but I don't know if it transmits less heat than the sand, or more; or maybe the sand deflects it for a while, then eventually retains and transmits it... G Wiv or Bruce, any idea?
Mike,
I never use an empty dry waterpan. To me it makes more sense to use, for that type of application, sand in the waterpan. You get the same level of heat, the same blocking of radiant heat/direct flames, the same keep the dripping off the fire so there are no flare-ups and, the added benefit, of the mass of sand helping to stabilize temperature in the WSM.
Enjoy,
Gary
So, basically, a fire with sand in the pan and a fire with an empty water pan will run at about the same temperature? I'm looking to hit a target temp of about 325-ish in the WSM with my turkey. If I use sand, and keep all the vents open, and build a fire using your method, will I be in the right general area?
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Post #34 - November 13th, 2006, 1:53 pmAnyone know of a place in the south suburbs or NW Indiana that would smoke one?
Thanks
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Post #35 - November 13th, 2006, 2:48 pmG Wiv wrote:
I never use an empty dry waterpan. To me it makes more sense to use, for that type of application, sand in the waterpan. You get the same level of heat, the same blocking of radiant heat/direct flames, the same keep the dripping off the fire so there are no flare-ups and, the added benefit, of the mass of sand helping to stabilize temperature in the WSM.
Enjoy,
Gary
I only use an empty water pan for turkey, for everything else I use water. I have never had a problem maintaining the target 350 degrees, so not sure how necessary the temperature stabilization of sand in the pan is. Plus no fuel is wasted in getting and keeping sand up to temp.
Not to mention, you do get the added flavor of turkey fat sizzling on the foiled water pan when left empty. You also don't have to deal with a bunch of sand, which is extra helpful when living in a 3rd floor condo, with your smoker on a deck.
Jamie
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Post #36 - November 14th, 2006, 6:04 amJamieson22 wrote:I only use an empty water pan for turkey, for everything else I use water. I have never had a problem maintaining the target 350 degrees, so not sure how necessary the temperature stabilization of sand in the pan is. Plus no fuel is wasted in getting and keeping sand up to temp.
Jamie,
Little fuel is 'wasted' on the sand getting up to temp and what little there may be is compensated many times over as the mass* of the at temp sand helps keep the WSM at a constant temp, especially important in the cooler Turkey Smoking weather of November.Jamieson22 wrote:Not to mention, you do get the added flavor of turkey fat sizzling on the foiled water pan when left empty.
I cover the sand with foil, leaving a 2-inch depression for dripping fat. I, also, sometimes add an inch or so of water to help prevent the initial dripping fat from burning.Jamieson22 wrote:You also don't have to deal with a bunch of sand, which is extra helpful when living in a 3rd floor condo, with your smoker on a deck.
Makes sense, but as I cover the sand with foil I can reuse the same sand any number of times. Just to state the obvious, I change foil with each use.
Enjoy,
Gary
*I use a Brinkman 2-gallon charcoal pan, which fits perfectly in the WSM 1-gallon waterpan slot, for both sand and water.
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Post #37 - November 14th, 2006, 5:27 pmUsing the sand, can you get up to the higher temps Jamieson prefers for smoking turkey?Leek
SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
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Post #38 - November 14th, 2006, 5:31 pmleek wrote:Using the sand, can you get up to the higher temps Jamieson prefers for smoking turkey?
Yes
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Post #39 - November 14th, 2006, 6:32 pmleek wrote:Using the sand, can you get up to the higher temps Jamieson prefers for smoking turkey?
I guess I just don't see the necessity in the extra step of using a waterpan full of sand (for turkey that is). Even in the coldest of temps, I have never had a problem maintaining stable high temps without the sand for the < 4 hours required to cook the bird.
Not saying sand in the pan is a negative or that Gary is wrong, just that in my experience, an empty water pan has turned out a great turkey.
Geez, who knew BBQ was full of so many opinions
LOL...
Jamie
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Post #40 - November 14th, 2006, 10:00 pmI quote myself from January 20, 2006 on the WSM 5-step website:
Hi,
Today when I set out to smoke two butts (plus a chicken and hot links for lunch), the temperature was in the mid 30's with a snow storm expected to roll in the late afternoon. The snow storm's arrival would be just an hour or so after I stoked the smoker with a 2nd round of wood charcoal.
While I knew it would be wise to pull out from spare Brinkman water pan to fill with sand, I didn't know where the sand was. Instead of tearing everying up, I reasoned I could get away with the water pan. As Mike G pointed out from his experience, on these cool days everything takes longer when using a water pan. While 90-120 minutes would be average chicken cooking. ON this occasion it was closer to 120-150 minutes. So I put out the word we needed to find the sand.
By the time the butts needed a 2nd change of charcoal, the sand had been located. While this cook took 12 hours today, I am pretty certain using water pan the 1st 6 hours slowed the process. At hour twelve with a strong snowfall, my WSM was much hotter than at hour 6.
I'm glad I finally did find the sand, otherwise I may still be waitng for those butts to finish.
Live and learn!
_________________
Cathy2
"The discovery of a new dish does more for the happiness of mankind than the discovery of a new star" -- Brillat-Savarin
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Post #41 - November 14th, 2006, 10:10 pmCathy2 wrote:I quote myself from January 20, 2006 on the WSM 5-step website:Hi,
Today when I set out to smoke two butts (plus a chicken and hot links for lunch), the temperature was in the mid 30's with a snow storm expected to roll in the late afternoon. The snow storm's arrival would be just an hour or so after I stoked the smoker with a 2nd round of wood charcoal.
While I knew it would be wise to pull out from spare Brinkman water pan to fill with sand, I didn't know where the sand was. Instead of tearing everying up, I reasoned I could get away with the water pan. As Mike G pointed out from his experience, on these cool days everything takes longer when using a water pan. While 90-120 minutes would be average chicken cooking. ON this occasion it was closer to 120-150 minutes. So I put out the word we needed to find the sand.
By the time the butts needed a 2nd change of charcoal, the sand had been located. While this cook took 12 hours today, I am pretty certain using water pan the 1st 6 hours slowed the process. At hour twelve with a strong snowfall, my WSM was much hotter than at hour 6.
I'm glad I finally did find the sand, otherwise I may still be waitng for those butts to finish.
Live and learn!
_________________
Cathy2
"The discovery of a new dish does more for the happiness of mankind than the discovery of a new star" -- Brillat-Savarin
Was this an empty water pan or one filled with water?
Jamie
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Post #42 - November 14th, 2006, 10:40 pmHI,
I began the day with water in the pan. By the time I needed to start a new round of charcoal, we had located the sand. The second half of the cook was with sand in the pan. I noticed a difference in performance.
The cook was better as the weather got worse, which I attribute to the sand pan, than earlier in the day with water and better weather.
Regards,Cathy2
"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
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Post #43 - November 15th, 2006, 7:51 amJamieson22 wrote:Not saying sand in the pan is a negative or that Gary is wrong, just that in my experience, an empty water pan has turned out a great turkey.
Jamie,
A WSM with an empty waterpan turns out a fine turkey. A WSM with sand in the waterpan, especially when the outside temperature starts to drop, turns out the same fine turkey more efficiently*.
Enjoy,
Gary
*In regard to fire management
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Post #44 - November 15th, 2006, 1:36 pmA few comments on sand and its use in heating:
Typically sand baths are used (in laboratory heating) where water or oil baths cannot be used – especially above 200º C (not F!). Sand heats evenly* and is good for maintaining the required temperature. Sand would of course work at lower temperatures also and in Winter in the WSM it will come up to temperature faster than water (unless you start with boiling water). In Winter sand would be preferable to water to get up to hot smoking temperature range.
Gwiv wrote:A WSM with sand in the waterpan, especially when the outside temperature starts to drop, turns out the same fine turkey more efficiently
I think the key phrase is "when the outside temperature starts to drop". The mass of heated sand will be able to counter temperature fluctuation (also of concern on windy days) better than an empty pan.
I will point out that I am a WSM newbie still learning my way around it**. I will smoke my first turkey this Thanksgiving – a 12-16 lb-er that I'm getting from a local farm. What's a good wood to use? (for future reference – now I'm going with hickory + some mesquite as I haven't been able to locate a source for woods yet).
*and will shape itself around whatever being heated is in contact with it – though this is not the case in the WSM scenenario. Hmmm, wait - anyone tried burying anything (foil wrapped) in the sand and cooking it that way? Cry "Fowl!" and let loose the WSM waterpan mud-baked chicken...
**click-able progress report :)
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Post #45 - November 15th, 2006, 1:49 pmsazerac wrote:I will point out that I am a WSM newbie still learning my way around it**. I will smoke my first turkey this Thanksgiving – a 12-16 lb-er that I'm getting from a local farm. What's a good wood to use? (for future reference – now I'm going with hickory + some mesquite as I haven't been able to locate a source for woods yet).
You can use most any hardwood and have a great turkey. Fruit woods such as apple, pear, peach, etc. are great. Alder is also good. Hickory and mesquite are much stronger and if used too heavily can have an overpowering taste. I would suggest using hickory if that is what you have and limit yourself to 3-4 chunks. I would only use 1 or 2 chunks of mesquite. Mesquite can become bitter if overused to flavor. You are much better off using the smaller amount and learning to add more next time, than using too much now and regretting while you are eating it. Trust me on this. I"ve made many errors over the years.
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Post #46 - November 15th, 2006, 3:37 pmI only have *chips* of the fruit woods. Is there anywhere open on the weekend that I can pick up chunks?Leek
SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
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Post #47 - November 15th, 2006, 4:16 pmleek wrote:I only have *chips* of the fruit woods. Is there anywhere open on the weekend that I can pick up chunks?
You can try Home Depot/Menards/Lowes, but chances are they have already put their wood chunks away for the winter. Otherwise, you can go to Berger Bros, but they are closed on weekends.Steve Z.
“Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
― Ludwig van Beethoven
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Post #48 - November 16th, 2006, 7:03 amsazerac wrote:I will point out that I am a WSM newbie still learning my way around it**. I will smoke my first turkey this Thanksgiving – a 12-16 lb-er that I'm getting from a local farm. What's a good wood to use? (for future reference – now I'm going with hickory + some mesquite as I haven't been able to locate a source for woods yet).
If I were you, I would throw that mesquite away and stick with only hickory (until you can find some apple, etc). It lends such a strong flavor I would hate to see you ruin a farm raised turkey with it, or anything else for that matter.
Jamie
FYI- CostCo now has Fresh Butterball turkeys in normal CostCo quantities of things for sale at $.99/lb. Perfect for someone who wants to do a trial run at a turkey before the big day.
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Post #49 - November 16th, 2006, 7:43 amstevez wrote:leek wrote:I only have *chips* of the fruit woods. Is there anywhere open on the weekend that I can pick up chunks?
You can try Home Depot/Menards/Lowes, but chances are they have already put their wood chunks away for the winter. Otherwise, you can go to Berger Bros, but they are closed on weekends.
Menards only seems to have chips for the Apple, Cherry, Maple. That is where I got my Hickory chunks, at the one on Clyborn near Fullerton. At Home Depot they only seem to have briquettes, and then almost always only Kingsford. Ace Hardware on Davis in Evanston carries the Weber branded woods and is where I found the mesquite, which I like for beef. Ace and Menards (at least near me) also usually are the most likely to carry lump charcoal or the higher-end briquettes.Leek
SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
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Post #50 - November 16th, 2006, 8:06 amleek wrote:I only have *chips* of the fruit woods. Is there anywhere open on the weekend that I can pick up chunks?
Leek,
Berger Brothers carries chunks of apple wood, though they are not open on the weekends, and I can't think of another for-sure source for chunks of apple or fruit wood.
If you have the tools, Chicago Firewood is open on the weekends and carries apple and cherry wood, though only in fireplace size splits. (Call First)
If you can't find apple wood chunks, drop me a PM and I will be happy to give you some of mine.
Enjoy,
Gary
Berger Brother's Charcoal
1176 N Cherry Ave
Chicago, IL 6062
312-642-4238
M-F (Closed Sat/Sun)
7:30am - 4pm
Cash only
Chicago Firewood
1300 N Halsted (Rear Lot)
Chicago, IL
312-335-9696
10am - 5pm
7-days a week
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Post #51 - November 17th, 2006, 11:55 amI called Chicago Firewood and they will cut pieces up for me, so I'm getting some Apple chunks tomorrow
Thanks!Leek
SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
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