rickster wrote:If the farmers weren't making incremental profits by selling here, they would stay home.

Totally agree.

=R=

Kennyz wrote:Yesterday's haul from Green City included japanese eggplant, fresh dug garlic, golden and white beets, sungold tomatoes, Prairie Fruits Farm ricotta and fresh chevre, Liberty Farm eggs, Bennison's ciabatta, and fresh herbs (sage and thyme). The ingredients were all so terrific

Kennyz wrote:the stuff was so damn good that I spread most of over a mini loaf of Ciabatta purchased from Bennisons Bakery, also at the Market. It's almost gone.

Kennyz wrote:I also had a wonderful slow-cooked omelette this morning with a little truffle salt, and a toasted day old Bennison's baguette.

Kennyz wrote:Funny, I'm eating some in my office right now (with a mini Ciabatta loaf from Bennisons)

Kennyz wrote: I thought the best item was the warm Bennison's bakery baguette.

Kennyz wrote:The fine, much-more-talented-than-I bakers at Bennison's

Kennyz wrote:Ah, Bennisons. I still can't for the life of me figure out why they're allowed to sell their junk at the Green City Market. It's neither good nor made from locally farmed ingredients.

Bad experience?

cilantro,

If you look more carefully, you'll find that the context of some of those quotes more fully expresses my opinion, and at least one of the quotes is not actually mine at all.

That said, 'tis true that I have purchased my share of Bennison's bread. Junk was probably too strong a word, and my comment was at least as much about how bizarre I think it is that they are allowed to sell at the GCM, given the restrictions that seem to have governed other vendors.

At least you have proved with your very thorough research that my opinion is based on experience rather than conjecture

Kenny

Kenny,

I apologize for the misattribution. Which quote is not yours? I'll delete it.

Bennison's is my neighborhood bakery, so I'm probably biased. That said, I do find their breads among the best in the Chicago area (damning with faint praise, even more so because I rarely buy bread to begin with). But I have noticed that you seemed to be a regular consumer of Bennison's goods and appeared generally pleased with, if not necessarily raving about, them. So I was just curious what made you change your opinion from (pretty) good to "junk". Did you find a rat baked into a miche? Did mean old Mr. Benjamin Bennison kick you in the shins?

If it's just a GCM issue, that makes more sense. I will say that their prices rose fairly dramatically after that whole World Cup business and I have no doubt they hike them even more for the good folks who shop Green City. (I think the price disparities between GCM and the Evanston market have been mentioned here before and are more in keeping with the topic of this thread.) $6 for a ciabatta is hilarious. I think it's around $4 in the store.

c,

Actually, it turns out that I mis-accused you of misattribution. They're all mine.

I have found serious deterioration in product quality in the Bennison's of this summer vs. the Bennison's of last summer. Nearly all of the Bennison's stuff I've had comes from the GCM, and I suspect that a big part of the problem is how they store and transport the stuff for the market. It is sometimes stale, and has often lost the good crust qualities I used to enjoy. Seems soggy, as if it's been hanging out too long in plastic. Which, in some cases, it definitely has.

It is entirely possible (probable, in fact) that the stuff they sell in the bakery is better.

K

Kennyz wrote:...and my comment was at least as much about how bizarre I think it is that they are allowed to sell at the GCM, given the restrictions that seem to have governed other vendors.

Kenny,

Have you queried the market management (or Bennisonss) about Bennison's practices? The managers are always on hand at the booth and I know they'd be more than happy to talk about it.

Best,
Michael

eatchicago wrote:

foo d wrote:what i was getting at is that it's my sense that the markup by many vendors on the produce they sell at the farmer's market is extremely high.

Since you don't to get into a philosophical debate, I would like to pose a question that you can consider to yourself the next time you go shopping. No need to debate.

Have you considered the fact that your benchmark for price (supermarkets) may be incorrect and that the rest of the cost is being paid by other means? Is it possible that your benchmark is artificially low and that many farmers are actually charging the real price of food?

Please clarify - in what way do you determine what the benchmark for price might be? Are you talking about loss leaders? If carrots for example, are selling at an average of 69 cents a pound in most supermarkets, wouldn't that be the benchmark?

I've been to the Hinsdale farmers market and while the prices aren't outrageous, they are certainly high and approximately in the "Whole Foods" range. I wouldn't buy it but I see a lot of people buying so the farmers must be doing something right.

My favorite example though of a rip-off was when Myron Mixon of "Jack's Old South" fame was smoking a Berkshire Boston Butt that he got from a famous mail order ranch. He was commenting very favorably on the flavor of the pork which should be flavorable as it was being sold for $8.00 a pound (about 5 times more expensive that regular priced Boston Butts or 8 times when they are on sale)! That better be one damn good pulled pork sandwich at that price!!

As far as Bennison's breads are concerned, try their sourdough rye for something a little different. You'll want stinky cheese or smoked salmon for this. Quite dense and VERY sour though, so it's not for everyone.

If I'm not mistaken, the rye ($5 ?) is the same loaf referred to in Jory Downer's blog post:

http://www.bennisonsbakery.com/blog/200 ... t-rye.html

Kennyz wrote: I have found serious deterioration in product quality in the Bennison's of this summer vs. the Bennison's of last summer. Nearly all of the Bennison's stuff I've had comes from the GCM, and I suspect that a big part of the problem is how they store and transport the stuff for the market. It is sometimes stale, and has often lost the good crust qualities I used to enjoy. Seems soggy, as if it's been hanging out too long in plastic. Which, in some cases, it definitely has.

It is entirely possible (probable, in fact) that the stuff they sell in the bakery is better.

K

I've found that, while the breads sold at the Farmer's Markets in Evanston (used to be Kim's Kitchen had very nice baguettes at the Wednesday market, alas, no longer) are considerably better than breads sold at, say, the Jewel - they can't compare to the ones in the stores. If you have access to something right out of the bakery it stands to reason that it will be better than one that's been exposed to open air for however long the market is open.

gleam wrote:

JackieK wrote:This thread actually brings up a conversation I had earlier today that I'd like some feedback on. A friend was telling me that she haggles at the farmer's market, not in a mean way I'm sure, but more as in "how many peaches can I get for x $?"

I've never done this, I always treat posted prices at farmer's markets like the prices in a grocery store and don't question them. Should I? Do other people do this?

It rarely hurts to try to haggle. Especially if you're buying in bulk, and especially if you're buying less-than-perfect stuff, you can often get great deals. If that perfect half bushel of peaches is $10, maybe that imperfect bushel of peaches can be yours for $12.50.

Last weekend at OP Farmer's Market, I bought about 16 large, luscious and some only very slightly bruised peaches for about $6 -- and they are vastly better than what I've seen/purchased in larger markets -- and cheaper.

Also, to pickle, I bought what amounted to like two-plus pounds of little cukes for around $3; they were perfect for what I needed (looks not important).

Getting discounts on slightly "damaged" goods is a key advantage of shopping farmers' markets.

Not sure if it's down- or upstream in this thread, but criticism of Nichols' pricing seems right on target; I like the folks who run the stand, but find myself walking in, looking at the prices and thinking "F*ck you."

eatchicago wrote:

Kennyz wrote:...and my comment was at least as much about how bizarre I think it is that they are allowed to sell at the GCM, given the restrictions that seem to have governed other vendors.

Kenny,

Have you queried the market management (or Bennisonss) about Bennison's practices? The managers are always on hand at the booth and I know they'd be more than happy to talk about it.

Best,
Michael

Michael,

I have not queried management, but perhaps I will tomorrow. I am curious to hear why they have chosen a vendor that sells scones with dried dates in the middle of Illinois summer, and one which never - as far as I can tell - features products with ingredients sold by the other GCM vendors. Personally, I don't have a problem with vendors like Bennisons selling at farmers markets (I just wish their stuff tasted better), but it seems out of line with the GCM’s stated principles and with the way those principles have been applied in other cases.

I have queried Bennisons staffers about why they store their stuff it plastic tubs, which seriously deteriorates the bread. Their answer wasn't very useful.

Kenny

I used to be a big fan of grabbing a Bennison's whole wheat + dried fruit scone at the GCM, but after getting one with no fruit one week (they must have forgotten to add it and sold them anyway) and then noticed that they've switched away from whole wheat flour, I've decided to stick with Bleeding Heart's Take-a-Hike as my whole wheat/dried fruit scone of choice.

Speaking of BHB, they used to go to GCM (and no longer do - not sure why, they do Daley and Federal markets downtown I believe) but couldn't sell their Oaxacan Chocolate Cookies at GCM because they don't allow chocolate. Whether you like BHB or not (I'm not a huge fan of a number of their products, love others), they were the first certified organic bakery in the country, use a ton of local and sustainable products, etc. Just the kind of vendor you'd expect at GCM.

Muttster wrote:My favorite example though of a rip-off was when Myron Mixon of "Jack's Old South" fame was smoking a Berkshire Boston Butt that he got from a famous mail order ranch. He was commenting very favorably on the flavor of the pork which should be flavorable as it was being sold for $8.00 a pound (about 5 times more expensive that regular priced Boston Butts or 8 times when they are on sale)! That better be one damn good pulled pork sandwich at that price!!

$8 is a lot for pork butt, but it's worth noting that this is one area where the price of the normal, industrial, product (what, $.79-$1.29/lb) is *way* below the actual cost. I personally am not concerned as to whether someone tortured my carrot or kohlrabi, but I think there's a fair price to pay for animals who have not been abused, workers ill treated, fed taxpayer subsidized corn, excrement run off in to the water supply of rural areas, etc. Heritage pork does taste better, but even if it didn't, I'd happily pay the real price of sustainably and humanely raising a pig.

-Dan

I bought a Bennison's sourdough loaf this past weekend at GCM. It was fine (nothing special, not awful), but the croissant I bought to snack on was pretty darn good.

jesteinf wrote:I bought a Bennison's sourdough loaf this past weekend at GCM. It was fine (nothing special, not awful), but the croissant I bought to snack on was pretty darn good.

that's good to hear. One time last summer I had a transcendant croissant from Bennisons. As good as any that I've ever had. I've tried 3-4 more from them since, and they were all bad. I think this has a lot to do with weather conditions. Storage plays a part too. If you keep a croissant suffocating in a plastic tub, it just won't be the same.

Kennyz wrote:

jesteinf wrote:I bought a Bennison's sourdough loaf this past weekend at GCM. It was fine (nothing special, not awful), but the croissant I bought to snack on was pretty darn good.

that's good to hear. One time last summer I had a transcendant croissant from Bennisons. As good as any that I've ever had. I've tried 3-4 more from them since, and they were all bad. I think this has a lot to do with weather conditions. Storage plays a part too. If you keep a croissant suffocating in a plastic tub, it just won't be the same.

That's certainly true. I didn't notice how they were being stored but the humidity of the day hadn't gotten to them yet.

For me, Bennison's is all about the baguettes. I don't typically buy them at the GCM (so I don't know how well they travel) but at the shop, they are truly a thing of beauty and as much as I love the breads at Fox & Obel, Bennison's baguettes may be my favorite breadstuff in Chicagoland.

=R=

Muttster wrote:

eatchicago wrote:

foo d wrote:what i was getting at is that it's my sense that the markup by many vendors on the produce they sell at the farmer's market is extremely high.

Since you don't to get into a philosophical debate, I would like to pose a question that you can consider to yourself the next time you go shopping. No need to debate.

Have you considered the fact that your benchmark for price (supermarkets) may be incorrect and that the rest of the cost is being paid by other means? Is it possible that your benchmark is artificially low and that many farmers are actually charging the real price of food?

Please clarify - in what way do you determine what the benchmark for price might be? Are you talking about loss leaders? If carrots for example, are selling at an average of 69 cents a pound in most supermarkets, wouldn't that be the benchmark?

I'll happily clarify, but I'll try to avoid going too far down the Pollan/Parsons/Waters road. I'm going to touch a few issues that may ignite a firestorm, but since you asked:

I am not talking about loss leaders.

My question to you is: Why is the supermarket price the benchmark and not the farmers market? I'd say that you want to choose that as the "real" price because, as a consumer, you want to pay less. But, perhaps, when all real costs of the supply chain are taken into account, the farmers market price is closer to reality.

For example, the slavery-like conditions and wages of the people that picked tomatoes for supermarkets for many years is well documented. The supermarket price of those tomatoes is simply false.

If a meat processor is able to sell you cheap chicken breasts, but has to pollute the local water table to do it and cost the area taxpayers millions of dollars to clean up rivers, the supermarket price of that chicken is false.

There are a number of other examples of practices that have created a system in which our direct supermarket food costs have dropped drastically over the past 40 years. Many will argue that this cost reduction isn't real, but has simply been shifted to environmental costs, human costs, health costs.

The bottom line is: If I can sell you something cheap, but I have to commit an immoral, illegal, or otherwise harmful act to do so, does the price you paid actually represent the real cost of the product? Furthermore, should all other purveyors be measured against that yardstick?

Best,
Michael

Kennyz wrote:

eatchicago wrote:

Kennyz wrote:...and my comment was at least as much about how bizarre I think it is that they are allowed to sell at the GCM, given the restrictions that seem to have governed other vendors.

Kenny,

Have you queried the market management (or Bennisonss) about Bennison's practices? The managers are always on hand at the booth and I know they'd be more than happy to talk about it.

Best,
Michael

Michael,

I have not queried management, but perhaps I will tomorrow. I am curious to hear why they have chosen a vendor that sells scones with dried dates in the middle of Illinois summer, and one which never - as far as I can tell - features products with ingredients sold by the other GCM vendors. Personally, I don't have a problem with vendors like Bennisons selling at farmers markets (I just wish their stuff tasted better), but it seems out of line with the GCM’s stated principles and with the way those principles have been applied in other cases.

I have queried Bennisons staffers about why they store their stuff it plastic tubs, which seriously deteriorates the bread. Their answer wasn't very useful.

Kenny

I'd be interested in hearing the answer, especially vis-a-vis the BHB shut-out. I don't shop regularly at GCM or at Bennisons, so this never hit my radar.

BTW, for a couple years, I worked a block from Bennisons and they made a sour cream donut once a week that was, in a word, perfect.

I like markets. I like talking to farmers. I'm not willing to drive 100 + miles to their farms. I'm glad they exist.
I prefer to support small business owners over large corporations.

Generally, I find the products superior in taste so I'm willing to pay up, farm eggs, Traders Point Creamery's milk (this stuff is actually sweet like in ancient poetry) & yogurt plus Heartland Meats, etc. My mum-in-law, lived through rationing in England after the War, is not willing to pay up. She happily goes to Dominick's & Treasure Island most days of the week. I rarely buy produce at the supermarket which tends to be cheaper, open 24/7, & much closer. Yes we live together. I used to try to understand it, now I don't bother.

I don't haggle. I don't imagine most of us would do this in the big corporate places, e.g. Dominick's & Jewel, so why ask the little guy?

This whole thread about markets is a lot like asking why buy jeans from Neiman-Marcus versus jeans from Wal-Mart. Why pay for a manicure? Or a studio on the lake front when you could have a McMansion, for the same price, on the northwest side of the city. It's simply a matter of preference.

Kennyz wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:

Kennyz wrote:Having noticed increasingly ridiculous pricing practices from some farmers this year, I share some of foo's sentiments. How in the world does Nichols Farm think they can sell green beans for $6 a pound? Even Fox and Obel sells local green beans for $1.99/ lb. Ridiculous.

I'm with you. I paid $6 for a loaf of ciabatta and kicked myself afterwards. But corn is always cheap, thankfully.

Ah, Bennisons. I still can't for the life of me figure out why they're allowed to sell their junk at the Green City Market. It's neither good nor made from locally farmed ingredients. I always head right to Fox and Obel for bread after visiting Green City for produce and dairy.

Alas, you're mistaken! This was Red Hen's just-decent overpriced ciabatta at Oak Park. Interesting, you're the first person I've heard (read?) diss Bennison's!

Kennyz wrote:I have queried Bennisons staffers about why they store their stuff it plastic tubs, which seriously deteriorates the bread. Their answer wasn't very useful.

The many times I asked Bennison's staffers about the breads, none of them were knowledgeable. They can't tell me if a loaf was leavened with commercial or wild yeast starter or what the proportion of whole to white flour is, but they can tell me if something has cheese or jalapenos in it. They're either just there to sell or I've been consistently asking the wrong person.

Anyway, how did you conclude that storing bread in plastic tubs deteriorate the bread? This is meant to delay staling by keeping moisture where it should be.

To take a slightly geekier route, breads are thoroughly cooled before they're stored in those tubs. The water in the bread is stabilized at this point, and keeping that moisture intact is critical to delaying staleness.

I can guarantee that loaves on the table in the open air are degrading at a faster rate than the ones in the tubs. The aroma will evaporate quicker and wind dehydrates.

The cause of inconsistent bread quality is simple: They have zero control over the weather.
humid weather = soggy crust
dry weather = tough crust

Are plastic tubs the best solution? Probably not, but it's a cost-effective attempt at creating a somewhat predictable environment for the bread. Would like to hear a better solution for dealing with unpredictable weather conditions.

The better quality of products bought directly from their shop is not necessarily because of freshness and proximity to the ovens. It's because they have complete control over the environmental conditions inside their doors.

Once they take those loaves out of the bakery, all bets are off. They're going out on a limb by selling their breads outside.

Please allow me to offer a few tips on buying bread from outdoor markets:

• Go for the sourdough. Acidity helps with shelf life and they tend to get better with age.
• If you're sweating profusely or having a nosebleed, avoid the lean breads (no additional fat) such as baguettes and ciabatta. They are extra sensitive to unfavorable weather conditions.
• Go for the rounder and larger loaves such as miches and ciabatta. Small rolls and slim baguettes stale at a much faster rate.
• Use a toaster.
• Skip the farmer's markets and go straight to the source.

Apologies for the lengthy rant. I just want to express how lucky we are to have access to a high quality bakery such as Bennison's, so cut them some slack.

Unless foo objects, I have dibs on using "Farmer Fleeceyou" as a band name, literary alter-ego, or role-playing game character name. I'm also looking into registering http://www.farmerfleeceyou.org.

eatchicago wrote:For example, the slavery-like conditions and wages of the people that picked tomatoes for supermarkets for many years is well documented.

Can't argue that. I'd be interested in the board's awareness or opinion of the salaries paid to local organic (or non-organic) farmhands in the Midwest as well. For example, Sandhill Organics in Grayslake offers $1350 per month for 50-hour workweeks April-September with some possibilities for year-round employment, which works out to less than $6.75 per hour. That would be under Illinois minimum wage, but they may offer accommodations or board to some employees.

Some of these organic farm postings seem to be geared more to eco-minded refugees from other paths of life than to skilled laborers, which is to say, to people who can afford to take time off / away from higher-paying jobs (or add additional years to a broad education after $30k+ per year has already been spent formally by parents or financial aid offices). I have good friends who work on some of these farms for this kind of pay on "break" years, and have myself worked a few short stints at farms in the extended family and camps with gardens or orchards. It is invigorating, exhausting work.

There may not be a point here, just an observation that your average Midwest organic farm may have as many subsidized post-college or graduate school kids working on it (or even running it) as career farm laborers, sometimes making less than the laborers. Trying to factor the societal dollars spent on that kind of labor to come up with a just price for produce at the market is a daunting exercise in macroeconomic futility, even leaving aside the fact that the primary consumers are seeking aesthetics and validation and have the ability to pay much more than those looking for mere sustenance. It's substantially easier to figure a marginal price with a microeconomic model in a developing region where the farm itself has no relationship with local or federal government, all of the workers are dedicated full-timers, and the consumer needs the damn pawpaw to not be hungry anymore.

I therefore have no idea whether my bundle of beets should "really" cost $1, $6, or $27. I somehow do know that Whole Foods charging $5.99/lb for conventional red bell peppers is an affront to everything holy. I'm just not sure why.

Cynthia wrote:The thing that always surprises me is that, with the middleman cut out, you'd think the prices might actually be lower. Growing up, when we went to farm stands, the price was always much lower than the food that had't been shipped to a central warehouse and redistributed far and wide. When I went to a lecture on food prices and farming about a year ago, one of the things the farmer-speakers pointed out was that 80 percent of the cost of the food they bought was shipping. .

I was in Olympia, WA in June 2006 in May during the middle of cherry season. The farmers market had a ton of great looking local cherries for $4.95-5.95/lb. The local supermarkets had great looking local cherries for $2.99. Same packer, same quality.

Personally, I believe that all business people should have the right to price their product as they like. And I reserve the right to keep everyone competitive by shopping around.

With some of the aggressive pricing in this area, I call family members in Ohio and receive boxes of produce off the UPS truck. The shipping costs have been less and teh produce fresher.

kanin,

Your knowledge about bread matters dwarfs mine, so I certainly appreciate your perspective, and hesitate to counter any of it. I'll offer some thoughts anyway...

kanin wrote:...how did you conclude that storing bread in plastic tubs deteriorate the bread? This is meant to delay staling by keeping moisture where it should be.

I myself store bread in plastic if I am going to keep it for more than a day, for the reasons you mentioned. While plastic is good to prevent staling, in my experience it has seemed to have a detrimental effect on the crust on crusty breads like baguettes and ciabatta loaves. It is especially bad to store still-warm breads in plastic, you end up with condensation on the loaves - something I have experienced more than once from Bennisons. I have never seen a good bakery display its breads in plastic, and heard professional bakers give an explanation like mine above. If you are going to sell your bread fresh, within several hours of baking it, plastic is bad. That said, Bennisons may indeed have no choice on particularly humid or rainy days - but they do it every day, regardless of weather conditions. My guess is that they do it for ease of transport. They sell a ton of bread, and it makes it easy to carry it all into the market when you can pile one big plastic bin on top of another.

kanin wrote:The many times I asked Bennison's staffers about the breads, none of them were knowledgeable.

This illustrates my point about Bennisons. It may be a fine bakery, but they are not putting out their best stuff - product or service - at the Green City Market. I suspect that they've just spread themselves too thin, and are cutting corners to meet the expansion. Other businesses choose to stay small, or put in extra special effort as they grow. I don't think Bennisons does that. They staff the stand only with clueless kids, store and transport their products poorly, and bake the breads much longer in advance of selling time than they would in their bakery.

kanin wrote:Skip the farmer's markets and go straight to the source.

That's what I do now.

kanin wrote:I just want to express how lucky we are to have access to a high quality bakery such as Bennison's, so cut them some slack.

Fair enough. My comments are not about the bakery (though they make an awful version of a French macaron there). I am talking about what the sell at the Green City Market.

Kenny

FWIW, I just purchased a Bennison's baguette - the supposed jewel of the crown - at Green Grocer, and, wow, was it a sad specimen indeed. No crusty outside, but weak faint and pasty colored. Really, no different from what's offered at Whole Foods.

Thank you for responding in an logical and well articulated manner. It is obvious that you have an informed and passionate view of this issue.

I am not an economist so I can't go into models of production and labor costs. However, I am a student of history and I feel quite confident in saying that when significant agricultural and industrial changes (production and costs to consumers) occur, it usually reflects one or more of the following:
1. agricultural and technological innovation - (three-field crop rotation, cotton gin, refrigerated rail cars, assembly line, etc.)
2. labor availability and demographical shifts - (enclosure movement, indentured servitude including slavery, sharecropping, international migration, etc.)
3. Supply and demand - (price revolution in Europe, declining tobacco prices leading to rise of cotton, advertising, product "dumping" due to favorable government subsidies.

There are probably other factors but these are the main ones. It can be argued that moral or environmental considerations should be considered factors as well but determining what that cost would be and its direct impact is difficult to determine at best. Pricing is determined by the marketplace and what people are willing to sell and buy at a given price point, hopefully without artificial manipulation.

Saying all that, there will always be a demand for products that people see as having intrinsic worth. I would buy free-trade coffee and tea because the cost differential between that product and traditional coffee and tea is not dramatically different. I will not buy free range Berkshire pork butts at $8.00 a pound because I don't believe that the perceived value is worth and 800% increase in price. Likewise, the rise in farmers markets reflect a dissatisfaction by some people over the ethical and environmental abuses that they see in the marketplace or the perceived difference in the quality of food sold in farmers markets. If there is enough demand, the traditional marketplace will respond, as it always has, and will create more innovations. In some ways, it already has with Wal-mart carrying organic food.

As BBQ'ers say - "it's all good"

eatchicago wrote: I'll happily clarify, but I'll try to avoid going too far down the Pollan/Parsons/Waters road. I'm going to touch a few issues that may ignite a firestorm, but since you asked:

I am not talking about loss leaders.

My question to you is: Why is the supermarket price the benchmark and not the farmers market? I'd say that you want to choose that as the "real" price because, as a consumer, you want to pay less. But, perhaps, when all real costs of the supply chain are taken into account, the farmers market price is closer to reality.

For example, the slavery-like conditions and wages of the people that picked tomatoes for supermarkets for many years is well documented. The supermarket price of those tomatoes is simply false.

If a meat processor is able to sell you cheap chicken breasts, but has to pollute the local water table to do it and cost the area taxpayers millions of dollars to clean up rivers, the supermarket price of that chicken is false.

There are a number of other examples of practices that have created a system in which our direct supermarket food costs have dropped drastically over the past 40 years. Many will argue that this cost reduction isn't real, but has simply been shifted to environmental costs, human costs, health costs.

The bottom line is: If I can sell you something cheap, but I have to commit an immoral, illegal, or otherwise harmful act to do so, does the price you paid actually represent the real cost of the product? Furthermore, should all other purveyors be measured against that yardstick?

Best,
Michael

Kennyz wrote:

eatchicago wrote:

Kennyz wrote:...and my comment was at least as much about how bizarre I think it is that they are allowed to sell at the GCM, given the restrictions that seem to have governed other vendors.

Kenny,

Have you queried the market management (or Bennisonss) about Bennison's practices? The managers are always on hand at the booth and I know they'd be more than happy to talk about it.

Best,
Michael

Michael,

I have not queried management, but perhaps I will tomorrow.
Kenny

And query I did, though there was no manager at 8AM this morning, just a gang of very nice volunteers. I explained to them how much I like shopping at the market, and that I was curious about how Bennisons fit in, given their lack of focus on local ingredients. One volunteer chimed in to say that he agreed it seemed strange, and that he really lamented the fact that Delightful Pastries was no longer allowed to sell at the market. He wondered aloud why that decision had been made, given that Bennisons seems to have far less commitment to featuring market ingredients. Another volunteer said that she didn't understand it either, and kindly suggested that I query the Bennisons people.

I had already done that a few minutes earlier. First I asked them to tell me what's in the scones. "Raisins and apricots," they said. I asked if there were also dates, as I'd had one last summer with dates. "I don't think I saw any dates ," said one staffer. Another chimed in with, "I'm eating one now. Let me see. Hmm, is this a date?," she asked as she held up a date. "Yeah, this is is a date. So I guess there are dates too." Then I asked about the cheese bread: "What kind of cheese is that on the bread?" Mmmmmm, it's some kind of really awesome cheese. It's like challah." Huh? I asked if she thought anyone else working there might actually know what the cheese was. They didn't know. One person did say, with seeming certainty, "I know it doesn't come from here."

Bennisons pisses me off. Honestly, a lot about the GCM is starting to piss me off.

Kenny,

That's too bad.

If you have any interest in pursuing the Bennison's question further, the market managers email is available on the GCM website. Or maybe one of the volunteers could track down Bennison's "Sustainability Statement".

All vendors at GCM are supposed to provide a "sustainability statement" which is supposed to be displayed and/or available at the market and available to the public. From the GCM appilcation: "Describe how your farming practices and/or production methods produce a high quality product and show care and respect for the environment, your farm or business, and your community."

Best,
M

Michael,

I've received a couple of PM's as well suggesting that I contact GCM management through email. The truth is that I'm not really all that interested in the "sustainability statement" or some written report on how these producers are respecting the community, or even in how they explain why Bleeding Heart and Delightful Pastries were shut out.

Whatever response I were to get from GCM, it would not change the fact that at their market, they've got one vendor with clueless staffers selling mediocre bread, another that continued - after repeated complaints - to sell cider bottles labeled with an expiration date that had long passed, a third with pricing practices that almost justify the title of this thread, a fourth with milk left sweltering in the summer sun with a few ice cubes strewn about as if that would help, and not a single vendor that sells peaches and apricots that have been picked when peaches and apricots are supposed to be picked.

One might reasonably ask why I still shop at the GCM if I have so many problems with it. It's a love/ hate relationship, as despite all of those problems, I think there is tremendous variety that's hard to find elsewhere, and some unique and outstanding produce. And Mint Creek Farm eggs rock.

Kenny

I once spent a summer selling bread. Most loaves were nothing more than flour, water, yeast, and salt. While we were willing to slice the bread and put it in plastic for customers, it wasn't preferable because it completely softens the crust. I'd imagine that putting fresh bread (especially if it's still warm, as Kenny notes) into plastic tubs would have the same effect. For me, a wonderful crust is my favorite part of fresh bread. Even though the shelf life is shorter, I'm partial to baguettes, ficelles, epies, etc. for just this reason - - a higher crust to inside ratio.

I'd think Bennison's would be better served by completely cooling the breads and putting them in paper for delivery to market. I can't imagine that plastic would be better under any circumstances. For example, if it's a hot, humid day, the loaves are just going to more quickly soggify in the tubs as the temperature will be hotter inside. But, of course, I could be wrong.

I've had good Bennison's baguettes and not so good ones. I think, with a baguette, it's pretty easy to tell whether it's decent just by appearance and feel. Cheap, grocery store baguettes just don't squeeze like their more authentic counterparts. I don't ever want a soft, doughy baguette. Last week, at GCM, there was only one Epi left by the time I'd made it to the front of the line. I passed because it had little color and was obviously not cooked long enough. Sure, I could've thrown it in the oven - - but my oven can't do what Bennison's oven can. I enjoyed a sesame loaf instead.

RAB and I keep our fresh bread on the counter in paper only. If we're not going to eat it all, we slice it and freeze it. Sealed in a plastic bag, or preferably Tupperware, and frozen, bread will last a few months. Pull it out and toss it in the toaster oven. While it won't be as good as fresh, it'll be a heck of a lot better than bread that sits in the fridge in plastic. Putting bread in the fridge in plastic both softens the crust and dries out the bread.

And, yes, we often forget to put the bread in the freezer in time. If just a bit stale, a quick toast in the oven helps. If more than a bit stale, we use the bread for breadcrumbs or salad croutons. And, if we have a ton of stale bread, the puppy gets a treat. We almost never trash stale bread.

Ronna