The top tray on the Kitchenaid is great, only problem is we always forget to empty it.

Hi,

What is the advantage of the top silverware tray?

Regards,

If I'm not mistaken, at least one of the advantages is not having a dedicated block of space being eaten up on the bottom which is where the bigger items would normally go. So you have more room for the bigger items where you need it.

The top tray is good for utensils that stick up to high in the silverware basket. Things like knives tongs etc lay flat.

seebee wrote:oh, oh, oh!

Ok, so now we're on the same page, Grits!!
Listen to this though. The Savona is 685 cfm vs the 600 cfm of the Roma. Now which do you like more? Price is pretty much equal.

Well, the big draw of the Roma is the design. If you want that ultra-modern "wow" factor, the Roma has it. However, I think the Savona would actually look better in some kitchens--for example if you had more of an Italian look with painted tile or a tumbled backsplash. You could try just going for looks at first and picturing each in your kitchen to see which fits best--or ask someone familiar with your design who is good at that. If you honestly thing the Savona looks best, you're done. Otherwise at that point you have to decide if the extra 85 cfm is worth it.

If you really love the Roma and think that it is going to make your kitchen and dream of looking at that every morning, I'd just go for the Roma and move on. Put the 85 cfm out of your mind and go with what you really want.

Cathy2 wrote:What is the advantage of the top silverware tray?

As seebee has said, it gives you more room in the bottom. I don't use the silverware basket most of the time now. If you load "like next to like", you can also unload the silverware faster (pull out all the spoons together, pull out all the forks together, etc.). Finally, it gets rid of the dreaded "nesting" issue that Martha Stewart first put into my head.

I really, really like the tray. It took me a few times to get used to it but now I think it's a big improvement.

I will complain that the Kitchenaid does not have a lower basket that you can split so it's either all or nothing. My old basket split in three places.

My new dishwasher has the steam option as well. I haven't tried this yet. I think it is supposed to soften food deposits while not using much water or something.

Went with the Savona. The house is a Victorian style built in 1908. The softer, rounded edges might fit better. Now...
Granite or Quartz?


Lol.

seebee wrote:Went with the Savona. The house is a Victorian style built in 1908. The softer, rounded edges might fit better. Now...Granite or Quartz? Lol.

Yeah, I think the Savona was the right choice for your house. That's going to look incredible.

Oh, you are not going to get away with making the granite/quartz a "LOL." I like quartz but I went with granite and I'm glad. It just has a deeper, more interesting look that would be nice in a Victorian. I ended up doing Cafe Brown for the countertops in the kitchen, also called Classic Brown. It is brown with rust and gray. The dark was not something I originally was going to go with but we picked that last after everything else and that color tied it all together. So far there is an unexpected benefit because my plates are white and I can see them better on the dark countertop. I have bad eyesight and very little peripheral vision if I have glasses on so this has worked out great. The backsplash and floor tile are pretty light and I have undercabinet lighting so the dark countertop doesn't make the kitchen too dark.

I know - that was a sarcastic "lol."
I have seen a few quartz pieces that compared favorably to the "busyness" shall we saw, of granite, but as I recall, they were pretty up there in price. So far, our granite pick would be uba tuba. Dark blue with green highlites. We'd have to go with a darker rock because our cabinets will be light. Consumer reports raated quartz a smidge higher than granite because it is sturdier? May not have to seal/re-seal as much?

seebee wrote:I have seen a few quartz pieces that compared favorably to the "busyness" shall we saw, of granite, but as I recall, they were pretty up there in price. So far, our granite pick would be uba tuba. Dark blue with green highlites. We'd have to go with a darker rock because our cabinets will be light. Consumer reports raated quartz a smidge higher than granite because it is sturdier? May not have to seal/re-seal as much?

I was worried about the resealing thing too. Maybe some people who have had granite countertops longer than a few weeks can chime in about the maintenance. So far I've seen nothing on mine. I've tried to make fingerprints and can't see anything. I got some oil on the counter and saw no stain. Water does nothing either. Stains from who knows what left overnight (by my husband) wipe right off.

My contractor said that granite is actually pretty bulletproof. However, some sites say it depends on what your slab is made of. Uba Tuba is supposed to be pretty tough material I think.

You figure a lot of people have granite countertops. They are not all out there sealing every few years and I don't see a lot of complaints out there about it.

No offense to anyone with quartz countertops, because I do think they are very pretty, but I would go with granite in your situation. I think it will fit your house better. If you can try to see the slab rather than just picking by a small sample.

I used the Electrolux oven in the range for the first time a few nights ago. It was a night and day difference from my old oven. God knows what kind of temperature fluctuations were going on in that little Harvest Gold monstrosity. You'll have fun with the wall oven.

Hi,

I live in This Old House, too. I am a regular reader of Old House Journal, which often discusses period materials or counters that are sympathetic to that time. I have often thought soap stone would be a good material. I was happy when Martha Stewart chose this material for her television kitchen countertops. They are solidly black with a dull finish like one might see in a laboratory.

I will never forget one kitchen remodel of an 1880's home. They found American Chestnut planks in the attic, which they used to make their kitchen cabinet fronts. For the counter, they bought graphite chalkboards from an old school for very little.

If I were in your position of having to choose counter material, I would be dazzled by the choices, too.

Regards,

Now...Granite or Quartz? Lol.

cathy stole my answer. soapstone is the material of choice for period kitchens. it's a wonderful, beautiful 'living' surface that acquires a patina over time, but can also be sanded down to eliminate scratches or marks, and oiled to 'smooth out' any problems and give more shine.

it comes in a variety of colors--ranging mostly from grays to green/grays to black, with white/cream veining, but isn't very busy like most granites.

i have a victorian house and we did a fairly period-looking kitchen. we opted for quartz (caesarstone in 'jerusalem sand') because we wanted a light colored uniform surface and we wanted not just durable, but bullet-proof.

i can post/send pics if you like. of either my quartz or some soapstone kitchens. you should really visit the "finished kitchens blog" that's associated with garden web and do some poking around. the blog is cross-referenceable, so you can search for a specific element (soapstone, ubatuba, white cabinets, etc) and see all the kitchens that have incorporated that element.

Soapstone is beautiful but it stains easily and scratches. If you are looking for that soft gray green color, look at Viriginia Mist granite from Damar (more grey with veining) or Ocean Stone from MGSI (more light grey green with veining.

The quartz surfaces (Zodiaq,Ceasarstone,Silestone) don't look so great in period homes due to their unrelenting uniformity. They are more suited to a modern kitchen. That said, if you are looking at a Lagos Blue Limestone, Ceasarstone makes a fantastic emulation of it. Some of the other manufacturers are starting to come out with more realistic stone looks as well.

Damar
750 Anthony Trail
Northbrook
847-272-6666

MGSI
1205 Hartrey
Evanston
847-866-8682

I do custom kitchen design and consulting.

We did soapstone and love it. We have had no problems with staining or scratching. It had to be oiled frequently for the first few months (every 3-4 days). Now it needs oiling every 3-4 weeks, looks beautiful, and really goes well in a bungalow kitchen. I would post a picture if I could figure out how.

I'm a commercial cook in a home kitchen. I throw things around willy-nilly, and don't care. I usually do a lot of Asian foods at home (hot wok cooking,) and I do NOT search for hot pads and such when I pull things out of the oven. I need plug and play style everything. Oiling a countertop? I won't be doing that. I'm going with the whole, this is my kitchen, this is how it's gonna be motto on this remodel. I need the strongest worry free, no nonsense countertop avail. staright from the oven to countertop / hot wok to countertop / let's pound out some roulades, just throw that hot frying pan on the counter, countertop.

Soapstone fits that bill perfectly, with the exception of the oiling and oiling is no big deal.

Octarine wrote:If you are looking for that soft gray green color, look at Viriginia Mist granite from Damar (more grey with veining) or Ocean Stone from MGSI (more light grey green with veining.

The quartz surfaces (Zodiaq,Ceasarstone,Silestone) don't look so great in period homes due to their unrelenting uniformity. They are more suited to a modern kitchen. That said, if you are looking at a Lagos Blue Limestone, Ceasarstone makes a fantastic emulation of it.

I do custom kitchen design and consulting.

Octarine, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the maintenance/durability of quartz versus granite.

We went to Damar for our tile/granite and I second your recommendation.

I can pitch in on quartz: We got Zodiaq (DuPont), in a dark blue. In a little over two years, not a scratch, chip, dent, scorch, anything. No sealing, no maintenance, just clean it and use it. The only issue I had with anything was some sloppy measuring by my contractor around the stovetop, requiring a little more caulk than I'd have liked (But he was an idiot all the way around). But I'm 100% satisfied with how it's worked out.

There are a couple of small limitations with quartz, and they apply to granite too: It's available in 2 or 3cm thickness, as opposed to the 1.5" for standard solid surface. That makes the height of the countertop a little lower (I'm more than slightly tall -- every little bit helps). We'd considered combining Corian and Zodiaq across different parts of the counter to save costs, but you really can't combine them due to the thickness differences. Granite and Quartz don't have regular patterns and don't have a smooth consistent appearance, and because of their weight require smaller pieces than other solid surfaces, which means more joints, and they'll be more visible than Corian.

In residential use I have not seen an appreciable difference between granite and quartz in terms of reliability. As for maintenance, quartz has a slight edge but nothing so dramatic that you would notice it. If you keep your counters clean, you will not have a problem with either surface. Where quartz shines is in comparison to marble. I'm saying quartz as shorthand for engineered quartz countertop material. There is a natural stone that is referred to as quartzite; it is a very highly compressed sandstone that has some great colors and even greater difficulties. It's hard as glass so you cant mill it down. It stains, it's hard to work with and its typically quite expensive.

Quartz tops are about 93% quartz and 7% resin binder. The binder has most of the color in it and it is susceptible to UV light so the dark blue that JoelF has has lightened a bit since he got it. Hard to notice unless you put a new piece next to it. That's why quartz is not certified for outdoor use.

I tell my customers to go with the color you want and not to be married to a particular product. I happen to love marble in kitchens as long as everyone knows ahead of time that you will get stains, you will get wear patterns and the top will develop a patina over time. It's part of the beauty of natural stone!

Re: soapstone, I love it and had it in my last house in Evanston. I find that the client who wants soapstone is usually fine with the patina that develops over time and with regular oiling.

If anyone is interested in having countertops or other kitchen and bath work done, contact me off board, I do it all.

I don't know if you have settled on the hood yet.

May I recommend Chinatown? We bought a high volume Chinese vent that works great and cost about half of what we saw in traditional stores (and that were of lower venting power.)

We are also remodeling our kitchen. We found a special wok-burner on a Kitchenaid range and were ecstatic. You flip the grill over and its just the right shape.

Chinois wrote:I don't know if you have settled on the hood yet.

May I recommend Chinatown? We bought a high volume Chinese vent that works great and cost about half of what we saw in traditional stores (and that were of lower venting power.)

We are also remodeling our kitchen. We found a special wok-burner on a Kitchenaid range and were ecstatic. You flip the grill over and its just the right shape.

I will say, we have a GE Cafe dual fuel range/convection oven and a GE Cafe hood and that hood pulls smells/smoke out and away like nobody's business. I'm really impressed. I'm actually really impressed with both units- the stove is maybe the best pro-sumer stove I've ever cooked on- It beats the hell out of the therm-pro I had in my last place that's for sure and it's about on par with the Vikings I've used.

I'm a bit late to this thread.

Our philosophy is to "do it right the first time" rather than "do it over later".

After many years watching "This Old House" we designed and built our dream house 2 decades ago. The kitchen was one of the no compromises zones for both of us. Custom solid cherry cabinets, dovetailed drawers with Acuride drawer glides. An appliance garage with roll front door to hide all the little machines, with an outlet and strip light inside. There is even a pop up stand for the Kitchenaid mixer.

We ended up with a Sub Zero refrigerator with bottom freezer, Kitchenaid for the oven & dishwasher, Kitchenaid via Chambers gas cooktop with industrial output burners (not common 20 years ago, but not that uncommon today), and a stainless Braun exhaust hood. Got a build-in kit for our old Kenmore microwave that finally gave up after 27 years, and was recently replaced with a Dacor convection microwave because it was the only thing big enough to fill the old hole.

The electrician did his job well. We've got 10 of the 40 slots in the breaker box just for the kitchen. All the appliance connections are direct wired, on dedicated circuits. There's no way you could possibly blow a breaker, unless you deliberately tried to do it.

All the appliances (except for the microwave I already had) came from Abt 2 stores ago, when they were still on Dempster. Everything in the kitchen gets used regularly, and it's all still in like new condition. With the exception of the microwave that was almost 10 years old when we built the house, everything is original, and nothing shows signs of needing replacement any time soon.

After 18 years of use, last summer we did replace the Weber gas grill with a new one, also from Abt. We ordered an out of stock model that turned out to be discontinued, so they upgraded us to the next model for no additional charge, and delivered it exactly when they promised it. No charge for delivery either, but you do get to pay sales tax.

For those who have never been to Abt, it's worth the trip from wherever you might be. Their atrium stores are just amazing. Their pricing is unbeatable, their service incredible, and their selection is just mind boggling. It's no wonder they are still around after over 70 years.

We are about a month away from completion here. The countertop wound up being granite - peacock blue, or peacock green. It's being installed today. We have yet to install the pendants, and a few other lights here and there. The plumber, and the granite guy have both said that our kitchen should be in a magazine. I plan on posting the hell out of the before/after pictures. The contractor did an exceptional job, and my expectations were easily exceeded.
Side note, along with the self closing drawers, we got the little mechanisms for the cabinet doors to self close. They run about 5.00 a pop, and can be put on pretty easily. Some notes for anyone who plans on a total gut down to the studs:

Although we did plan on cooking at home as much as possible, it just didn't work out that way. I read this on another forum. Sure, everyone has the best intentions, but cooking meals on a coffee table or some tiny little space while your kitchen is being worked on loses its novelty REALLY quickly. It's a pain in the butt to say the least.

Contractor told us up front: You're gonna gain a few lbs, because you're gonna be eating out a LOT. He was right.

If anyone ever wants to learn how to make a full hashbrown / eggs over easy, sausage breakfast in a panini maker, I'll teach you for a nominal fee.

Crock pots are a actually pretty decent.

It seems like the less ornate you want something, the more it costs.

There are actually ppl in this world who would pay 100.00 and more for a drawer pull.

Kitchen designers can do some VERY cool stuff.

My contractor's view of perfection is more perfect than my own. He's gonna do the other rooms in my house FOR SURE!

Matching wood and doors from a house built in 1908 costs a fortune, but there are some pretty cool tricks.

When did lights get so dang expensive?
And sinks too.
And drawer pulls.
And faucets.
<sigh>

More in about a month.

We had a tabletop microwave, and a camp stove, on which we did a lot of cooking. We also had our fridge outside on the patio for about six months, and did a lot of gas grill work (which wasn't made easy by the fridge taking up a lot of space on the covered patio). Note, our project was mostly spring-summer, and it was an addition so we had the use of the original kitchen for the first part of the project (the fact that the contractor reneged on his promise that he'd have the new room pretty much ready before needing to tear out the old kitchen, and the overall delays in the project made it worse than we expected, but we endured).

Ikea has some very nice drawer pulls at reasonable prices.

With Great Indoors and its competitor whose name I forget closing stores, you should be able to get some bargains (probably too late for you).

For light fixtures, we found Kichler brand fixtures to be very reasonable in price, with beautiful styles.
And where to get them? Try Northwest Electric on Rand Road in Mt Prospect, their prices are quite nice, they'll discount pretty deeply from list when you're buying a lot, and their service has been outstanding.

We bought our faucets from eBay... found a discontinued Grohe at about half the price we found elsewhere. They must have been factory seconds because there were some cracks in a plastic part of each one, but the seller sent us replacements immediately.

Great minds think alike.

Bought the faucet from Great Indoors, and then bought the same one from ebay for about 60 bux less. We'll return the one from Great Indoors, but if we need to have it installed before the ebay one comes, then we'll just the return the ebay one to the great indoors.

Bought the sink from Great indoors as well after hemming and hawing between another one at Expo and yes, we were in on the "closing store" pricing.

We found the drawer pull that we wanted, and then bought those from a dealer on ebay as well at a fraction of the cost as the retailers were selling them.

Our light fixtures are all kichler. Finally ordered them at a Horton's last week. They also offered a 40% discount off of list when you bought x amt.

Our contractor told us we could order countertops anywhere we wanted to, but he STRONGLY preferred "his" granite guy. He was a hair more expensive, really just a hair, but apparently, an absolute perfectionist.

Update - As I was typing, the Mrs just called. The granite is done, and perfect.

Seebee-
Glad you're getting to the end of the project. Planning/shopping is time well spent.

I expect you will be well pleased with your granite counter.Our architect recommended quartz for ease of maintenance, and we selected a black Zodiac number with shiny specks in it. We got a 3"x4" sample to carry around with us. We dropped into a counter shop near Naperville and they had 3' x 4' samples of various materials on the wall. One was luminous black with shiny particles that made it seem we were looking into the surface. My wife pulled out her little sample and said "Wow! that sure looks better in a big piece."

The saleslady said..."honey, that ain't quartz - That's granite." My wife looked back and forth a couple times and dropped her quartz sample into a wastebasket. We went with a Brazilian granite called Black Galaxy, which is drsamatic and beautiful. The mineral flecks dance and sparkle and seem to move as you walk past it. They look like they're inside the stone and you're actually looking inside it.

In five years, we have just wiped it off and used it. We don't see any maintenance problems whatsoever.

Enjoy your new kitchen.

Mike

jpschust wrote:

Chinois wrote:I don't know if you have settled on the hood yet.

May I recommend Chinatown? We bought a high volume Chinese vent that works great and cost about half of what we saw in traditional stores (and that were of lower venting power.)

We are also remodeling our kitchen. We found a special wok-burner on a Kitchenaid range and were ecstatic. You flip the grill over and its just the right shape.

I will say, we have a GE Cafe dual fuel range/convection oven and a GE Cafe hood and that hood pulls smells/smoke out and away like nobody's business. I'm really impressed. I'm actually really impressed with both units- the stove is maybe the best pro-sumer stove I've ever cooked on- It beats the hell out of the therm-pro I had in my last place that's for sure and it's about on par with the Vikings I've used.

I recently replaced a crappy whirlpool with the GE Profile 975. Feature-wise, its very close to the Cafe, but definetly does not have that pro-style look. I was happy with that for the $400 savings.

Here is the feature comparison in case anyone is interested:

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplPr ... GS980SEMSS

I agree with your sentiment that the performance is terrific. This thing really cooks!

seebee wrote:We got the little mechanisms for the cabinet doors to self close. They run about 5.00 a pop, and can be put on pretty easily.

We got these, too. I love them. No more slammed cabinet doors. Unfortunately we had to cheap out on our cabinets a bit, so we don't have self-close drawers.

Another thing I'm loving is the filtered instant hot/cold faucet. This takes up some room under the sink but we use it all the time. On one side of the faucet we have this, and on the other side we put in a built-in soap dispenser--also great.

Well, "cheap out" is a relative term. We didn't spend a zillion dollars on ours, and we both really liked how the ultra heavy custom cabinet doors felt, but there was no way were gonna pay for them, because of the advice of quite a few ppl. Most said that the cabinets we got were going to outlast how long we used them no matter what, so spending a zillion dollars would not add to the lifetime. The little self closing things totally negated the lighter feel, since you don't close it against the cabinet to feel it - if that makes any sense. The custom ones pretty much started at twice the price we paid. Our contractor, and even the cabinet guys advised against buying the custom ones. Oh, btw, we now have flowing water on our first floor for the first time since early Dec. The faucet was installed! No more running to the basement or the upstairs bathroom for water! Doesn't sound like a pain in the butt - but oh it was! The brand new first floor bathroom has a functioning toilet in it now, too!

Lol - too bad there's no door on it yet

seebee wrote:Well, "cheap out" is a relative term.

The brand new first floor bathroom has a functioning toilet in it now, too! Lol - too bad there's no door on it yet

I guess I should explain what I meant by "cheaping out." We were looking at Bertch cabinets (not custom) in the previous "let's redo our kitchen" phase about five years ago. The cabinets we got, while nice, are just objectively a step down from the Bertch we looked at before. We got a great deal on the cabinets and without this we probably could not have afforded to do the kitchen, or we would have had to cut money somewhere else. I'm very thankful we got the deal that we did.

As far as the working toilet...I'd think at this point you'd know your contractors well enough that you don't even need a door.