Khaopaat wrote:

jesteinf wrote:I had the infamous $7 banh mi for lunch yesterday. It's a good sandwich (taken on its own merits), but probably just an ok banh mi. I had the "classic" but there's also a pork belly version that looks fantastic. I'm going to give that one a try next.

It sounds like we're on a similar wavelength when it comes to French Market lunches - first the Pastoral/Delightful Pastries combo on opening day, then the "Classic" bahn mi yesterday.

I don't have a problem paying $7 for a bahn mi in theory, considering how much their overhead costs...however, I was very disappointed in how stingy they were with my sandwich. The meat layer was very, very thin, the pate was almost imperceptible, the vegetables were meager, and the sandwich featured exactly two slices of jalapeno. My coworker who walked over there with me got the same sandwich, and we ran into each other at the office vending machine around 2:30.

I'd like to give the crêpe place a shot, and look forward to sampling some frites, but other than that it looks like most of my French Market lunches will come from Pastoral going forward.

My banh mi was a little skimpy, but two of my coworkers also got them and they had a bit more meat in them. The pork belly version looks like it has significantly more meat. I'd still like to give the Korean place and the Mexican place a try before going steady with Pastoral. Or maybe I can just bring some stone crab claws back to my desk and eat those .

jesteinf wrote: Or maybe I can just bring some stone crab claws back to my desk and eat those .

wait a minute, first food item on this thread that has drawn my interest.. someone is selling stone crab claws there?

jimswside wrote:

jesteinf wrote: Or maybe I can just bring some stone crab claws back to my desk and eat those .

wait a minute, first food item on this thread that has drawn my interest.. someone is selling stone crab claws there?

I'm pretty sure I saw them at the fish counter on opening day. Not sure if they're a regular item or not though.

jesteinf wrote:
I'm pretty sure I saw them at the fish counter on opening day. Not sure if they're a regular item or not though.

thanks for the follow up answer.

jesteinf wrote:

jimswside wrote:

jesteinf wrote: Or maybe I can just bring some stone crab claws back to my desk and eat those .

wait a minute, first food item on this thread that has drawn my interest.. someone is selling stone crab claws there?

I'm pretty sure I saw them at the fish counter on opening day. Not sure if they're a regular item or not though.

I saw them yesterday too. The fishmonger also told us that if we wanted something but didn't see it there, if we told him before 9am he'd have it waiting for us after 3pm that same day.

As I wrote elsewhere, it seems this place will be a boon to West Loop residents and Northwestern commuters, but it doesn't serve the role of the central marketplace so many of us have hankered after. The focus is more on prepared meals than on raw ingredients, it's not big enough and the prices seem high. Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia has three times as many vendors, and you don't pay more than twice the price for a cheesesteak there as you would in a neighborhood stand.

Totally reasonable to compare this place to a century-old institution. The prices will be driven by the (lower-case "m") market. The place is just starting to feel itself out. Fairly-priced vendors will survive and the gougers will either come around or fail (not that I'm judging).

I'm not sure the issue is one of gouging and non-gouging necessarily. Rent is very high for these small spaces. The issue may be what items can be sold at sufficient margins and in sufficient volume to pay for their real estate. The "overpriced" items may simple reflect an attempt to make rent as much as an attempt to take advantage of rushed commuters.

Heading out from the burbs to check it out tomorrow, I have been hoping/waiting for Chicago to get something like this forever, Can wait for a Pork Belly banh mi.

I'm not sure the issue is one of gouging and non-gouging necessarily.

I'm not suggesting that they're literally gouging just that they're testing out a "premium" concept. It may well be that their price points are too high to sustain a regular clientele and that's something that will shake out over time. There's a natural tendency to want to recover start-up costs rapidly. My comment was meant to reply to the "how come it's not cheap like it is at the 100+-year-old Reading Market" post. And if anyone's been to SF's Ferry Building Market then Chicago prices seem very cheap by comparison.

LAZ wrote:Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia has three times as many vendors, .

Only on certain days as Amish stands represent over a third of the market and they only show up 3-4 days per week.

Riffhard wrote:Heading out from the burbs to check it out tomorrow, I have been hoping/waiting for Chicago to get something like this forever, Can wait for a Pork Belly banh mi.

I would wait another week or 2 if you are only coming in for the market. All of the vendors aren't operating yet.

Last night I hit the train station about 10 minutes early, scampered down to the market, and got my wife a pastry at Vanille Patisserie. For someone who commutes through that station 5 days a week, this is a major upgrade to my food world.

I'll be curious to see whether the non-prepared food vendors survive. I hope they do, but they have more of an uphill battle.

Jonah

Whether the non prepared food vendors survive is what we are curious about also. At this point, I agree, they may have a tough time of it. On the other hand, something shelf stable, like spices, has a huge advantage in the fact that it does not go to waste. Spices have a one year shelf life. What happens to those beautiful cases of fish that were flown in at 4 in the morning when the case is still pretty full at the end of the day? At the Milwaukee Public Market, we eventually lost a really fantastic butcher, because he ended up throwing away hundreds of $$ of meat at the end of every day. I imagine the folks at the nearest foodbank are going to have a higher quality food pantry than they ever imagined.

Cinnamon Girl wrote:Whether the non prepared food vendors survive is what we are curious about also. At this point, I agree, they may have a tough time of it. On the other hand, something shelf stable, like spices, has a huge advantage in the fact that it does not go to waste. Spices have a one year shelf life. What happens to those beautiful cases of fish that were flown in at 4 in the morning when the case is still pretty full at the end of the day? At the Milwaukee Public Market, we eventually lost a really fantastic butcher, because he ended up throwing away hundreds of $$ of meat at the end of every day. I imagine the folks at the nearest foodbank are going to have a higher quality food pantry than they ever imagined.

I'm guessing the fish vendor and others at the French Market is going to gauge public response and adjust inventories accordingly. If there's lots left over at the end of the day, he can cut back, but I'm guessing there are many (like JeffB, above) who are tickled to have fresh fish available "on the way home."

David Hammond wrote:

Cinnamon Girl wrote:Whether the non prepared food vendors survive is what we are curious about also. At this point, I agree, they may have a tough time of it. On the other hand, something shelf stable, like spices, has a huge advantage in the fact that it does not go to waste. Spices have a one year shelf life. What happens to those beautiful cases of fish that were flown in at 4 in the morning when the case is still pretty full at the end of the day? At the Milwaukee Public Market, we eventually lost a really fantastic butcher, because he ended up throwing away hundreds of $$ of meat at the end of every day. I imagine the folks at the nearest foodbank are going to have a higher quality food pantry than they ever imagined.

I'm guessing the fish vendor and others at the French Market is going to gauge public response and adjust inventories accordingly. If there's lots left over at the end of the day, he can cut back, but I'm guessing there are many (like JeffB, above) who are tickled to have fresh fish available "on the way home."

I think this is a very interesting question/problem. I wrote a while back about the Milwaukee Public Market at the Local Beet, and how it had moved away from being a shoppers market. Someone from the Market commented on that post and essentially admitted they had to roll with the times.

As I've already noted upthread, I think people want to see carcasses and vats of guts to make them feel "market-y" even if they have no notion of buying this stuff. Really, how do these markets balance the fact that people expect to see certain things but then have little need to buy them.

Well, for one thing, maybe they can dip into all of those TIF funds to subsidize nose-to-tail. For another thing, they can publicize the market more for ethnic groups. We have a lot of Mexicans in Chicago. They've been known to buy a cow foot or two. Want to sell real meat. Get the customers there who already buy that way.

spinynorman99 wrote: My comment was meant to reply to the "how come it's not cheap like it is at the 100+-year-old Reading Market" post. And if anyone's been to SF's Ferry Building Market then Chicago prices seem very cheap by comparison.

Or to NYC's high-end version inside Grand Central Terminal, which seems very much like Chicago's new French Market.

Vital Information wrote:Well, for one thing, maybe they can dip into all of those TIF funds to subsidize nose-to-tail. For another thing, they can publicize the market more for ethnic groups. We have a lot of Mexicans in Chicago. They've been known to buy a cow foot or two. Want to sell real meat. Get the customers there who already buy that way.

VI, interesting observations, as always, but remembering the demographic this market appeals to (people who take Metra, work in the Loop, live nearby), I'm just not seeing how nose-to-tail or or perhaps even "ethnic" would go over. "Honey, on the way home, pick up a camembert from Pastoral and some pig snouts." I'm just not seeing it...though I wish I could.

As I've already noted upthread, I think people want to see carcasses and vats of guts to make them feel "market-y" even if they have no notion of buying this stuff. Really, how do these markets balance the fact that people expect to see certain things but then have little need to buy them.

Well, for one thing, maybe they can dip into all of those TIF funds to subsidize nose-to-tail. For another thing, they can publicize the market more for ethnic groups. We have a lot of Mexicans in Chicago. They've been known to buy a cow foot or two. Want to sell real meat. Get the customers there who already buy that way.

That's not the target market. This is a Euro-style "pick up ingredients for dinner" type market combined with upscale lunch options. They aren't going to draw people from the neighborhoods who can already get what they want closer to home and for less.

kanin wrote:

CCCB wrote:It doesn’t appear there’s going to be a wine shop, but CVS sells wine so it will be possible to pick up everything for a splurge dinner on the way home.

The guys at Pastoral said they'll be carrying wine sometime soon, maybe by next week.

One could also visit Presidential Market on the ground level of Presidential Towers, just a short distance from the French Market, to pick up wine on the way home.

Vital Information wrote:[I think this is a very interesting question/problem. I wrote a while back about the Milwaukee Public Market at the Local Beet, and how it had moved away from being a shoppers market. Someone from the Market commented on that post and essentially admitted they had to roll with the times.

Indeed, the much-loved Reading Market at this point is more food court than fresh market, in my experience. Grand Central more Fox & Obel. But I'm happy we have it. People here have been asking for it as long as I can remember, and now it's here.

I told the fish guy that he should sell coolers so people could take the fish home with them.

He tried to sell me a bag of ice and told me he would think about it.

Llama wrote:I told the fish guy that he should sell coolers so people could take the fish home with them.

He tried to sell me a bag of ice and told me he would think about it.

Sell a bag of ice? Whenever I've been at a fish market and asked for ice they happily shoved some in a bag for me, gratis!

A couple people from New Home Notebook (whom I work for) did a video walk-through at French Market. If you're interested in seeing it you can watch it here:
http://newhomenotebook.net/profiles/blogs/touring-the-ogilvie-centers

It gives you a good idea of the layout of the place. Also, they talk to a couple of vendors. There's also commentary, of course, if you're interested.

spinynorman99 wrote:

As I've already noted upthread, I think people want to see carcasses and vats of guts to make them feel "market-y" even if they have no notion of buying this stuff. Really, how do these markets balance the fact that people expect to see certain things but then have little need to buy them.

Well, for one thing, maybe they can dip into all of those TIF funds to subsidize nose-to-tail. For another thing, they can publicize the market more for ethnic groups. We have a lot of Mexicans in Chicago. They've been known to buy a cow foot or two. Want to sell real meat. Get the customers there who already buy that way.

That's not the target market. This is a Euro-style "pick up ingredients for dinner" type market combined with upscale lunch options. They aren't going to draw people from the neighborhoods who can already get what they want closer to home and for less.

To this, and David's commnts too, having met and interviewed some of the players behind the market, I can say that their expecation is that this IS a shopper's market and not just a food court. In fact, Sebastien made clear to me that communters were "gravy" so to speak (no he did not say the au jus either). He really saw the market as serving the needs of the neighborhood and of people who wanted to shop French style.

Hi,

I did a walk through of the French Market on Monday evening. As I was walking down the stairs, I heard a couple discussing their visit. They had hoped for prepared food to take home to reheat for dinner. From my quick run through, there were either fresh ingredients (cheese, fish, meat, vegetables), bakery or street food (bahn mi, crepes). Unless I missed something, semi-prepared food to take home and finish cooking seemed to be missing.

I tried to locate where Dobra's Delightful Pastries was located. Is she a stand alone booth or integrated into anothers? The few vendors I inquired about her location pleaded ignorance, which I found hard to believe.

I did read the Metra's newsletter about the French Market. They said they invested six million dollars for some of the infrastructure, which they planned to do with or without the French Market. They also hoped to earn 16-18 million dollars over the next 20 years, which would help their bottom line. I was very appreciative of Metra really wanting to see this market work.

This is likely a Metra issue, but for infrequent visitors like me they need better signage. Especially for the entrances/exitings advising what street you are going out to. I thought I was on Canal, then found I was on Clinton and marching in the opposite direction I needed.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:I tried to locate where Dobra's Delightful Pastries was located. Is she a stand alone booth or integrated into anothers? The few vendors I inquired about her location pleaded ignorance, which I found hard to believe.

Right in front of the Randolph street entrance, sort of diagonal from Pastoral.

Vital Information wrote:

spinynorman99 wrote:

As I've already noted upthread, I think people want to see carcasses and vats of guts to make them feel "market-y" even if they have no notion of buying this stuff. Really, how do these markets balance the fact that people expect to see certain things but then have little need to buy them.

Well, for one thing, maybe they can dip into all of those TIF funds to subsidize nose-to-tail. For another thing, they can publicize the market more for ethnic groups. We have a lot of Mexicans in Chicago. They've been known to buy a cow foot or two. Want to sell real meat. Get the customers there who already buy that way.

That's not the target market. This is a Euro-style "pick up ingredients for dinner" type market combined with upscale lunch options. They aren't going to draw people from the neighborhoods who can already get what they want closer to home and for less.

To this, and David's commnts too, having met and interviewed some of the players behind the market, I can say that their expecation is that this IS a shopper's market and not just a food court. In fact, Sebastien made clear to me that communters were "gravy" so to speak (no he did not say the au jus either). He really saw the market as serving the needs of the neighborhood and of people who wanted to shop French style.

@Vital Information-
I think you are correct. I noticed that parking is free for an hour with a $20 purchase. I saw that as an invitation for me to come down and shop, just like Fox & Obel. It isn't in my neighborhood, but if I know I don't have to worry about parking I treat it like every other shop I like and go when I need something, not when it's necessarily convenient for me.

Vital Information wrote:To this, and David's commnts too, having met and interviewed some of the players behind the market, I can say that their expecation is that this IS a shopper's market and not just a food court. In fact, Sebastien made clear to me that communters were "gravy" so to speak (no he did not say the au jus either). He really saw the market as serving the needs of the neighborhood and of people who wanted to shop French style.

Within one half mile of the market, 41,000 people live and 500,000 office people work -- of the latter group, I'm guessing a lot come in by train, either Metra or El.

I have to say that the high point of the market for me has been listening to the Metra conductors read the ad copy over the trains' PA system. My middle age medical exams are more comfortable.

I have a relative who looked at taking space in the market and the marketing materials used were really eye opening. The 41,000 who live in the area seem to have moved into the area in the last week and that number is only going up in staggering leaps and bounds. And there aren't good alternatives in the area for buying the components of a nice meal, or a good, prepared meal.

But my relative turned away from the space for reasons similar to Spice House. Mostly cost, which seems extreme to me.

I walked through and was excited about half of the vendors and underwhelmed about the other half. I'd love to have a fresh-fruit option in the area but all of the produce looked overpriced. I think it would be great if when the weather improves -- March to November -- they put produce vendors along the exterior west wall and don't charge them an arm and a leg.

There will be some washout and if money can be made there, vendors like Spice House will have there opportunity to come in.

auxen1 wrote:I have to say that the high point of the market for me has been listening to the Metra conductors read the ad copy over the trains' PA system. My middle age medical exams are more comfortable.

LOL!!! You must take the Union Pacific Northwest line train that arrives in Ogilvie at 7:56am.