I got 3 beautiful cabbages for the comparatively exorbitant price of $0.19/lb at the A&G last week. It's shredded, salted, weighted , and pressed in our jar. I can't wait for the bubbles to start forming!

Only 10lbs of kraut this year-- trying to not get over-ambitious.

I buy Diamond Kosher Salt at The Spice House or Penzey's.

Jen

I doubt if Ill get up there. I will do a small crock of kraut this year and buy from the store. I might also make daikon kimchee. Ill get hubby interested in krauting by dangleing the spicy kimchee in front of him so he will help.

Eager to join the Sauerkraut Club. Is there a secret handshake or password?

I started my very first batch yesterday. (Having bought a half a pig recently, it seemed important to get some quantity of sauerkraut on board. And you can bet I will be studying Wendy's choucroute thread and making Pie-loves pierogies. Thanks, to both of them.)

Anyway, I need help. I made the kraut according to the recipe in Thomas Greene's article in Gastronomica (Fall 2011 issue). However, just to be on the safe side, I added more salt than called for. I figure I can always rinse if I find my batch too salty. The problem came up with weighting. I used an oven bag filled with water as suggested in the recipe. I'm pretty sure the bag was tightly closed, but in the morning, I found it had leaked into the crock. The water from the bag was straight from the tap. So now, though I had boiled the extra brine water, I now have non-sterile water in the batch. Does this mean it's ruined? I added 2 T. more salt, reasoning that I should treat this as added brine if I can continue to ferment it. I want to weight it down with another method. Is it essential that all the shreds be below the brine line? After trying to weight it with a saucer and with a can there were some shreds poking up around the edges. And is it essential that the shreds be tightly packed? Here are some pics:


photo.JPG by Josephine2004, on Flickr


photo.JPG by Josephine2004, on Flickr

All advice appreciated.

Hi Josephine and welcome to the club! I use the same "lemonade jar" for fermenting my kraut! Just a few thoughts-- for the future, don't add too much salt, as it will inhibit fermentation. Also, I have seen others recommend that you fill the weight bag with brine just in case it leaks.

As for whether this batch is ruined, I think only time will tell. I am betting that it will be fine-- once those bacteria get going, they should be okay-- after all, cucumbers can be fermented with added water for half-sour pickles. Good luck and keep us posted! Watch for bubbles, check the smell, and (if you have the capability), check the pH-- my kraut went from pH7 to pH4 in about 2 weeks.

This year I made a slightly smaller batch-- just 10 pounds. Also, I used Diamond Kosher Salt this year-- the ferment went great. I have about 5 quarts of kraut. Honestly, I have been really enjoying drinking the kraut juice-- does anyone else do this?

And, speaking of using the kraut, here is a basic braised sauerkraut recipe that I like:
http://www.food.com/recipe/sauerkraut-w ... way-108678
I use it as a taking-off point, adding white wine, or sausages. Also, I never rinse the kraut-- we like our kraut strong.

Jen

HI,

I have a copy of the Gastronomica article, though I have not read it yet.

I have been using the method from the National Center for Home Food Preservation, which is supported by our tax dollars. For 25 pounds of cabbage, I used no more than 3/4 cup of canning salt. Most of the liquid came from the cabbage itself by squeezing and pounding it with a potato masher.

Only at the very end did I use some additional boiled and cooled tap water with an addition of 1.5 tablepoons salt per quart. I wanted the liquid over the kraut by at least an inch. I used a two gallon plastic ziploc bag filled with perhaps half a gallon of brine to seal the container. If any had leaked, there would have been a null effect.

Your jar filled so high poses another challenge, as the sauerkraut ferments it bubbles. In the five gallon pail, I had it packed with 25-30 pounds of cabbage. The initial volume was maybe 60-70% capacity. Over time the bubbles shifted the sauerkraut to take up considerably more room. I pounded it down again and added additional brine to cover. I have commented about this phenomena before upthread.

Under all circumstances, your kraut has to be submerged. Otherwise the exposed stuff might spoil everything else.

Now that you have exposed liquid, you will need to police for yeasts and skim them out.

Have fun!

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Your jar filled so high poses another challenge, as the sauerkraut ferments it bubbles. In the five gallon pail, I had it packed with 25-30 pounds of cabbage. The initial volume was maybe 60-70% capacity. Over time the bubbles shifted the sauerkraut to take up considerably more room. I pounded it down again and added additional brine to cover. I have commented about this phenomena before upthread.

Under all circumstances, your kraut has to be submerged. Otherwise the exposed stuff might spoil everything else.

Thanks, Cathy2 and Pie-love. I will give it a go. But I could take the kraut out of the jar, drain off the brine, boil it, and return it to the jar with somewhat less of the kraut so that I have a lower level in the jar. (Believe it or not, I used only 10-11 lb. of cabbage, as specified in the Thomas Greene article.) What do you think of that plan?

Josephine wrote:Anyway, I need help. I made the kraut according to the recipe in Thomas Greene's article in Gastronomica (Fall 2011 issue). However, just to be on the safe side, I added more salt than called for. I figure I can always rinse if I find my batch too salty. The problem came up with weighting. I used an oven bag filled with water as suggested in the recipe. I'm pretty sure the bag was tightly closed, but in the morning, I found it had leaked into the crock. The water from the bag was straight from the tap. So now, though I had boiled the extra brine water, I now have non-sterile water in the batch. Does this mean it's ruined? I added 2 T. more salt, reasoning that I should treat this as added brine if I can continue to ferment it. I want to weight it down with another method. Is it essential that all the shreds be below the brine line? After trying to weight it with a saucer and with a can there were some shreds poking up around the edges. And is it essential that the shreds be tightly packed?

As yet I'm merely a theoretical sauerkraut fermenter, reading a bit of the food microbiology literature recently. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

I wouldn't worry too much about the tap water not being sterile (neither is the cabbage!) as the salt should suppress growth of most of the undesirable microorganisms. The most important thing is to have the salt concentration between 2 and 3 percent by weight. Commercial producers usually aim for 2.25% *. Under 2% can result in soft kraut due to growth of unwanted microbes and over 3% interferes with the growth of those you do want. I think toward the lower end of the 2-3% range is generally best. You can always add salt if needed when cooking. If the kraut is too salty you'll need to rinse it before cooking, also removing flavor and the supposedly beneficial bacteria. If I were you I'd just make the best possible guesses and adjustments to get the salt about right.

Fermentation should be carried out under more or less anaerobic conditions (ie, in the absence of oxygen) to suppress the growth of the unwanted aerobic bugs. That's why the liquid-filled bag is a good idea—it seals the top of the fermentation chamber but still lets carbon dioxide escape. The weighted plate method is commonly used but my understanding is that mold growth around the top edges is more common. You can just scrape away the molds but it's better not to have to deal with it. This is why you want your cabbage submerged; the shreds exposed to air are likely to grow molds etc that you don't want.

* In my hands a level tablespoon of Morton Canning & Pickling Salt weighs 17 grams so for every 5 pounds (2268 g) of shredded cabbage you want 3 tablespoons (51.0 g) of salt. That's 2.25 grams for every 100 grams of cabbage.

Rene G wrote:[quote="I wouldn't worry too much about the tap water not being sterile (neither is the cabbage!) as the salt should suppress growth of most of the undesirable microorganisms. The most important thing is to have the salt concentration between 2 and 3 percent by weight. Commercial producers usually aim for 2.25% *. Under 2% can result in soft kraut due to growth of unwanted microbes and over 3% interferes with the growth of those you do want. I think toward the lower end of the 2-3% range is generally best. You can always add salt if needed when cooking. If the kraut is too salty you'll need to rinse it before cooking, also removing flavor and the supposedly beneficial bacteria. If I were you I'd just make the best possible guesses and adjustments to get the salt about right.

Too bad Josephine you are no longer nearby. I have a handheld refractometer scaled for salt concentration (as well as another for sugar). A drop of the saline solution would quickly advise whether you are in the right target range.

Regards,

Wow C2, I am *impressed*!! a saline refractometer!! I've got a sugar 'fractometer (°Brix), but then, I'm a winemaker. How'd you happen by that?

I've never made kraut, but I've made scads of kim chee, which is a Wonderful Thing, which odorificates the whole house.


Geo

Cathy2 wrote:Too bad Josephine you are no longer nearby. I have a handheld refractometer scaled for salt concentration (as well as another for sugar). A drop of the saline solution would quickly advise whether you are in the right target range.

In my reading I learned that sugar levels in cabbage vary significantly (several fold) depending on type of cabbage, time of harvest and other factors. So I'm not sure that checking the refractive index of a mix of unknown salt concentration with an unknown level of sugars would give an interpretable result. In other words, wouldn't the sugars interfere (to an unknown extent) with determining the salt concentration? Measuring conductivity might be a better approach but not without problems.

Ok, so I have 11 lb of cabbage and I made that in two batches, so I have 10 T. salt in there. (I thought I needed the salt to massage the cabbage with, so doing it in 2 batches, I ended up with more than the recommended salt. I needed 8 cups of brine (4c./2T. Salt) to submerge the cabbage. Then about 4 cups of water leaked into the jar. I poured out about 4 cups of water to lower the level and added 1 T. of salt, just in case. The way I figure it, I have more than enough salt, perhaps too much. And I've managed to submerge all but a few errant shreds of cabbage with a ziploc bag. So I think it's cool now. I'll wait to see what happens. Thanks Cathy, Peter, and Geo!

Cultivating their fascination with fermentation. Tara Duggan, San Francisco Chronicle Staff Writer

Got inspired early this year by a HUGE head of cabbage for a buck. It's on it's way to becoming kraut!

Me, I've stunk up the house with half a gallon of *very* potent kim chee!!

Geo

HI,

We ran out of sauerkraut yesterday.

I have a call in to Gitzlaff Farms to find out when I can pick up a bag or two at their warehouse. I paid $7 for roughly a 50 pound bag last year. They have a huge refrigerated warehouse/barn with pallets of cabbage.

Gitzlaff Farms
923 County Highway Ea Kenosha, WI 53144
(262) 859-0419

I can use one bag for my uses.

Driving up to Milwaukee recently, I saw fields of cabbage visible from expressway.

Regards,

Hi,

For $8, I purchased 60 pounds of cabbage, though I gave away a 5.75 pound head. I removed the outer leaves, cored and sliced by hand 54 pounds of cabbage. I did weigh out how much debris I had to allow me to adjust the amount of salt in the sauerkraut.

I tossed the cores, I used the outer leaves for dinners this week:
- sauteed rough cut cabbage, mushrooms and onions with homemade egg noodles folded in toward the end.
- stuffed cabbage leaves
- sauteed strips of cabbage with pepper bacon, onions. Yukon gold potatoes and Westphalian ham

There are fine bubbles popping up on the edge of the sauerkraut container. It's nice to see evidence of fermentation.

Regards,

awesome! Let us know how much you can when it's ready!

C2--

Did you ever try kimchee? I made some a couple of months ago and it turned out awfully well. I used Nappa, which is typical, but I can't see why small-cut regular cabbage wouldn't work. The fermentation process softens it up in any case.

Then there's the garlic and chile!! Oh YUM!

Geo

I had to share this story. An ex-co worker came in one day totally furious. He husband at the West Allis market bought a truck load of cabbage. Yes, a whole truck full because he "got a good price". She was begging and borrowing every container she could get her hands on. Cursing him the whole time.

For the kimchee folks. Asahi in Niles used to have a $10,000 kimchee maker for sale. Very impressive to see. I do not know if it is there anymore since it has been around a year since I was there last.

I once lived in Scapoose Oregon. The main products around there were sauerkraut, candles, cheese and work shoes. Just down the road in St Helens there was a paper mill. Talk about a stinky town. If they made paper pulp during sauerkraut season and the wind blew just right, the smell would knock you off your feet. I guess they haven't made sauerkraut for many years in Scapoose, but they started a sauerkraut festival to honor the Steinfeld brothers, who gave the town its unique odor. It is held every September. Sauerkraut ice cream, anyone?

As the kraut ferments, obviously some of the water evaporates. When adding water should I add water or do I need to add salted water, I was thinking of using just boiled water as the salt already present would not evaporate. Is this correct or should I add salted water? And if so what should the ratio of salt to water be?

Thanks

Bill

Adding plain water will keep the solution at the same strength, which is what you want.

Are you sure that the water *evaporates*, rather than being absorbed into the kraut?

Geo

Hi,

I add salted water if the water line drops. I boil a quart of water, then add 1-1/2 tablespoons of canning salt. Once cooled, I add it to the sauerkraut.

I started my kraut on October 20th. AFter the initial set-up, I used a two-gallon ziploc bag filled with half gallon of salted water as a seal. About two-weeks into it, I checked to find the level had dropped or perhaps the kraut had shifted during fermentation. I added salted water.

Just before Thanksgiving, I used some of the kraut for dinner. It was a bit bland. A few days ago, I checked again to find it was now to my liking. I canned 14 pints on Tuesday evening. I will keep some fresh and can the rest over the weekend.

If the kraut needed more fermenting, the liquid level had dropped enough to consider adding more liquid.

Regards,

Geo. I try and press it out every day, I do get some more liquid to come back out. I never thought much about reabsortion, that is a good point. My set up is a one gallon crock a plate that almost fills the crock opening and a quart jar of pennies to weigh it down. I did a pretty good job of packing it down. I will be gone for four days so I am concerned that the water level may drop too much (or reabsorb) and the kraut will not be covered, so I want to keep it from spoiling these couple of days I am gone.

2146 north wrote:Geo. I try and press it out every day, I do get some more liquid to come back out. I never thought much about reabsortion, that is a good point. My set up is a one gallon crock a plate that almost fills the crock opening and a quart jar of pennies to weigh it down. I did a pretty good job of packing it down. I will be gone for four days so I am concerned that the water level may drop too much (or reabsorb) and the kraut will not be covered, so I want to keep it from spoiling these couple of days I am gone.

Only problem with the jar of pennies is potential contamination--I've always used Cathy's method-a bag of salted water, because if it somehow got into the batch, it wouldn't hurt anything. If your jar tips over or slips off the plate (can happen if the changing water levels cause anything to move), it would likely introduce things into the brew that you wouldn't want there...

I have the jar sealed, I also took it straight from the dishwasher while it was still warm and put it on the plate. I will mess around with trying the sealed bag of salted water but might want to see some pictures of how that works, any time I have taken the plate or jar off I always place it on a clean towel. I try very hard to keep it all as clean as possible.

2146 north wrote:Geo. I try and press it out every day, I do get some more liquid to come back out. I never thought much about reabsortion, that is a good point. My set up is a one gallon crock a plate that almost fills the crock opening and a quart jar of pennies to weigh it down. I did a pretty good job of packing it down. I will be gone for four days so I am concerned that the water level may drop too much (or reabsorb) and the kraut will not be covered, so I want to keep it from spoiling these couple of days I am gone.

Hi,

You seem to be fussing with your kraut too much. Part of the reason may be you have too much kraut in your gallon container. While it may have begun densely packed, I learned from experience the kraut fluffs up while fermenting. I once filled a five gallon container 4/5th full, then had to deal with kraut nearly edging to the top. Maybe not quite, but enough that this year I split my kraut into two five-gallon buckets. You want to avoid handling this while it is fermenting away.

The two-gallon bag filled with at least half gallon water - you might need more or less - sort of flops over the opening to keep it sealed. I like the clear bags, because I can then look into the kraut without touching it. When I used to use a plate with water filled Mason jars on top, I had to check for yeast. The plastic bag seals it well enough this problem was zero in one bucket and minimal in the second.

When I used Mason jars, I had to babysit my kraut. Using the water filled plastic bag, I have zero daily maintenance. I only lifted any kraut out just before Thanksgiving to check and grab some for dinner.

I will do pickles next summer using the water filled plastic bag, too. I spoiled an 18-pound batch last year, because I wasn't able to keep an eye as closely as I should. I am sure my revised sealing method will bring pickles to a lower maintenance project. One I can walk away for a few days and not fear ruin.

I hope this helps. If not, ask again.

Regards,

AHHHH I was trying to understand the plastic bag way of doing it. I couldnt figure out how it held down the kraut. Now I think I understand it. You need a bag largere than the size of the crock. I may need to find a smaller bag than you use to seal my small crock.
So far the crock I use is not too full, it is about 2/3 full right now. I do fuss with it too much, but its my nature.

Thanks all for the advice.

We just got two heads of cabbage from the CSA box and I'm thinking about making a small batch of sauerkraut. Here's the catch-- one head is green and the other is red. Would mixing them result in sauerkraut with an unappetizing color? Anyone made red sauerkraut?

Cheers, Jen