Thai Yellow Curry Recipe? Vegetarian?

I'm looking for a yellow curry recipe to try to replicate something MrsF had near DC (yellow curry mashed potato egg rolls) for a party.

I've found a couple of recipes on line... but I have one question: I have several vegetarian and kosher-keeping friends, and I'm trying to keep several dishes vegetarian. Is there a yellow curry paste recipe without shrimp paste or fish sauce? Fish sauce won't bug the kosher-keepers, but it will annoy the meat-free folk.

Is there a vegetarian substitute for fish sauce? Can I get the pungency by adding something to, say, soy?

I don't think there is a substitute for fish-sauce*, and soy would be very different. I'd suggest making the curry and adding it or not as an accent only to a separate portion of the dish (or on individual plates)*.


*though here'sa coconut juice and vinegar approach to a vegetarian one. (scroll down)

**it's added at the end anyway, right?

sazerac wrote:**it's added at the end anyway, right?

No, the recipe I found online used fish sauce in the paste prep, and the one Yellow Curry in David Thomson's Thai Food uses shrimp paste -- definitely out of bounds for those keeping kashrut

I don't know that you can replicate any authentic Thai curry without fish sauce*. Still I think you can make a yellow curry that will be good - you'll just have to balance the salt and other flavors by adjusting the amounts of other ingredients and can't expect the pungency of fish sauce. You could try a touch of anchovies instead of shrimp paste - though this would exclude the vegetarians.
Curry dishes are dynamic beasts - all recipes are approximations at best anyways.

*except those that do not call for fish sauce

JoelF, at home and looking up the Thompson* recipe - it's one with clams and pineapple- I don't think that flavor profile would be suitable with omelette. It is aggressive with chiles which could be toned down (especially if you have thinly sliced chile in your omelettes) but you'll need to enhance the sourness and acidity which that dish gets from the pineapple.

Was the 'yellow curry' you are trying to replicate really hot? I am wondering if it could have been a mussaman type curry which is also turmeric-ed yellow - though Thompson has one for chicken and beef and these have IMO too much aromatic spices to be adapted for eggs.

You could try adapting this recipe- adding chopped green chiles to simmer in your curry and have chiles in your omelettes. I would also use a mixture of sugar and palm sugar. The flavor of fresh turmeric in curry would go well with the omelettes. Fresh turmeric is available on Devon @ fresh farms, if not in the Thai stores.

This is probably very different from what you were looking for and I don't know if it's any help at all, but I hope you'll post on what you make and how it turns out.

*with a 'p' as in pneumonia, and not Thomson without a 'p' as in timbuktoo - sorry but I never get tired of that one.

Hi Joel,

I went to the Golden Pacific Market today on Broadway and came upon a very interesting bottle of vegetarian fish sauce. It's by the brand Golden Boy. The ingredients read:
"Soya sauce, salt, sugar, water, chili, acid citric, sorbic acid as preservative .1%"

Unfortunately it came with a very and seemingly defetctive strange flip top and I can't seem to open it! I have to return it tomorrow I'll report again with my findings.

I also bought some yellow curry paste--I'm making a sweet potato curry this weekend and the can of paste appears to not have any fishy ingredients in it. It just has chili, shallot, garlic, lemongrass, galangal, salt, curry powder, spices.

Hope this helps!

Sharona

Thanks folks -- I'll experiment by futzing with a paste over the next couple weeks before making the actual dish. Perhaps I can find that same non-fish-fish-sauce at H-Mart.

Sazerac -- it's an egg roll not an omelet, and filled with mashed potatoes. I can absorb a lot of spice in there, but the original dish (which I haven't tasted) was, according to MrsF, "flavorful, not spicy". A Mussamun-style curry might do. The originals were pretty standard-sized egg rolls, but I may go lumpia-style for finger foot, but that doesn't allow much filling.

On the Thom[p]son debacle above -- I was lazy and didn't walk to the kitchen to read the spine. Mea culpa.

JoelF wrote:On the Thom[p]son debacle above -- I was lazy and didn't walk to the kitchen to read the spine. Mea culpa.

Joel, that wasn't really directed at you. I can never remember either - only saw it when I pulled the book out + the asterisk-ed phrase is stuck in my head from childhood reading (Tintin).

I was real sharp, wasn't I, thinking it was an omelette? Potato 'egg roll' in curry seems interesting - I suppose the curry is made separately and served over the 'egg rolls' close to service.
With potato (filled egg roll) panang (or mussamun) curry might be good. Maybe even incorporate some potatoes simmered in the curry into the mashed filling.
I'm intrigued - I look forward to your post on the outcome.

Sazerac:
I'm intrigued by your recipe ideas, perhaps more than what MrsF wants to recreate. The idea of crunchy within the curry, sort of like a tempura udon, sounds like a lot of fun.

What she had was a simple finger food: curry-flavored mashed potatoes in an egg roll shell, cut in half on a bias for that spiffy display look. For our annual cocktail holiday party, that seemed like a nice bet.

I'll try to take some photos when we eventually get around to making these. I'm going to go get some curry paste and/or ingredients at lunch today, mix up a small batch of smashed spuds for dinner, see what comes of it.

JoelF wrote:Sazerac:
I'm intrigued by your recipe ideas, perhaps more than what MrsF wants to recreate. The idea of crunchy within the curry, sort of like a tempura udon, sounds like a lot of fun.

JoelF, you are very kind. I hope you will send me a few dollars worth of quarters for me to use in the swift-kick-in-the-backside vending machine.

Finally it dawns on me (one can hope) what you meant in your first post – "Yellow curry mashed potato egg rolls." I think the mention in the title of Thai yellow curry temporarily (again, one can hope) addled my brains, what with the other Thai posts on the board and my Thai food experience post-move to Pgh. The word "curry" means to me a gravy/sauce dish, not a flavor.

So essentially you are making a spiced potato filled egg roll. This wouldn't be too far from a cylindrical samosa then. A slightly doctored curry paste would work (I don't know if you even need to use coconut milk). Alternately, you could use a recipe for the potato-filling for samosas – this seems reasonable. For Thai-ish flavor use galangal instead of ginger, use lemon grass and skip the garam masala (or just a touch of ground cinnamon-cardamom-cloves mix). For something like this I like to cut the potatoes and boil till nearly done and then saute with the fried spices, cover to fully cook and then mash coarsely .


I'll slink away and locate that vending machine now.



[from a distance] Ow!

Well, I took a (longish) lunch trip to Super H Mart today to pick up ingredients for a batch of paste.
Yellow Finger Hot Peppers
Lemon Grass
Kaffir Lime Leaves!!!! Not normally in the yellow curry, but hard to pass up. They should freeze OK.
Shallots
Coconut cream and milk (don't know if I'll use them, but I'll use them eventually)
They're out of galangal, but I have some in my crisper drawer from a previous trip there. Plenty of ginger and garlic at home as well as other spices.

Oh, and they had fresh, whole Durian!?! (I didn't buy one)

You found kaffir lime leaves at Super H back in November? I decided on a whim today to make Tom Kha and went there to get the fresh ingredients I needed. I got everything except the lime leaves. Were they in the fresh produce, or should I have looked with the dried stuff? Gah! I went to 5 more places after that and couldn't find the darn things! Had a nice tour of the Morton Grove & Niles Asian/international produce stores though. The recipe I'm using says you can substitute lime zest for the leaves, so I'm going to do that, but it's not the same.

Does anyone know if they carry them at Mitsuwa? I'm probably not going to back out at this point, but it would be nice to know.

abe_froeman wrote:Does anyone know if they carry them at Mitsuwa? I'm probably not going to back out at this point, but it would be nice to know.

FWIW, I can always spare a few leaves should anyone have need.

Hell, should you catch me at the right time, I can part with a lime, too.

Simply contact me via p.m.

E.M.

abe_froman, I bought some last summer at one of the Argyle markets - nto sure which, though. I bought a whole bag and seem to recall it was in the fresh produce area. Of course, that was in the summer, and not sure if they are there now. It's not exactly in your neighborhood to easily find out, either.

abe_froeman wrote:You found kaffir lime leaves at Super H back in November? I decided on a whim today to make Tom Kha and went there to get the fresh ingredients I needed. I got everything except the lime leaves. Were they in the fresh produce, or should I have looked with the dried stuff?...Does anyone know if they carry them at Mitsuwa? I'm probably not going to back out at this point, but it would be nice to know.

The non-Korean or -Chinese items at Super H are definitely hit or miss. I've been in there four times now, and only seen Galangal twice -- once as big thick tubers, once as finger-width, Kaffir lime leaves once (in the produce section). They have a basil labeled "Taiwan" (that I hope means Thai basil) every time I've been there. I know I saw Prickly Ash/Szechuan Peppercorns there once, but not the last time I was there and actually needed it.

And I've never seen them at Mitsuwa. Even Mitsuwa's specialty items are not consistent -- as you'd expect with the seasons. Fresh wasabi is only there occasionally (and I haven't seen it in Super H).

Luckily the Kaffir Lime Leaves seem to freeze well. Galangal I should have grated and frozen in like 1oz portions, I'll probably do that next time I see it.

Thanks- my Tom Kha didn't turn out that great anyway; I think it was because I got lousy fish sauce. I've never cooked with it before, so I'm not sure how it's supposed to look, but this looked *not good*. It seemed to suck all the sweetness out of the soup. The coconut milk wasn't very coconut-y....I wasn't expecting it to taste like a pina colada or anything, but there was nearly no sweetness and no coconut flavor. The only way I could make it remotely tolerable was to add about 6 spoonfuls of apricot jelly. I was about 10 minutes from scrapping it and just going to Ruby of Siam to fill my craving.

I have no problem going into the city for supplies- I'm also looking for sorrel for another recipe and was tipped off that occasionally the Rogers Park Fruit Market at Clark & Rogers carries it.

abe_froeman wrote:...I'm also looking for sorrel for another recipe

Drop me a note in spring -- my sorrel will hopefully be back again this year (although it was buried most of last summer during construction)

abe_froeman wrote:Thanks- my Tom Kha didn't turn out that great anyway; I think it was because I got lousy fish sauce. I've never cooked with it before, so I'm not sure how it's supposed to look, but this looked *not good*. It seemed to suck all the sweetness out of the soup. The coconut milk wasn't very coconut-y....I wasn't expecting it to taste like a pina colada or anything, but there was nearly no sweetness and no coconut flavor. The only way I could make it remotely tolerable was to add about 6 spoonfuls of apricot jelly. I was about 10 minutes from scrapping it and just going to Ruby of Siam to fill my craving.

I have no problem going into the city for supplies- I'm also looking for sorrel for another recipe and was tipped off that occasionally the Rogers Park Fruit Market at Clark & Rogers carries it.

3 observations:

Thai coconut milk should only be "sweet" in relation to the natural sweetness of the coconut...meaning...it's not -sweetened- a la Mexican coconut milk.

The use of apricot jelly in Tom Kha Kai is horrifying imo...the sweetening component should be palm sugar(a very specific flavor) or, as a lame substitute, white sugar

Not sure what to make of your fish sauce problem; try 3 Crabs brand.

Christopher Gordon wrote:3 observations:

Thai coconut milk should only be "sweet" in relation to the natural sweetness of the coconut...meaning...it's not -sweetened- a la Mexican coconut milk.

The use of apricot jelly in Tom Kha Kai is horrifying imo...the sweetening component should be palm sugar(a very specific flavor) or, as a lame substitute, white sugar

Not sure what to make of your fish sauce problem; try 3 Crabs brand.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Any brand of coconut milk you recommend? I used a Thai brand. Do restaurants use palm sugar to get their soup as sweet as they do? I'm just trying to figure out if it was the fish sauce or if the recipe left out whatever ingredient would make it sweet.

Christopher Gordon wrote:3 observations:

Thai coconut milk should only be "sweet" in relation to the natural sweetness of the coconut...meaning...it's not -sweetened- a la Mexican coconut milk.

The use of apricot jelly in Tom Kha Kai is horrifying imo...the sweetening component should be palm sugar(a very specific flavor) or, as a lame substitute, white sugar

Not sure what to make of your fish sauce problem; try 3 Crabs brand.

I'm not going to take the time to pick this all apart, but I will at least take the time to say this much: if the interest of the poster is to make a truly THAI dish like tom khaa, then the poster is advised to stay the hell away from a VIET fish sauce like 3 Crabs brand. Besides the fact that most of the Vietnamese products available for sale in the U.S. are fashioned in an entirely different manner altogether, this particular product is for crap.

But, don't listen to me, listen instead to an expert Thai cook like Kasma Loha-unchit:

http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/featur ... auce1.html

E.M.

Erik M. wrote:

Christopher Gordon wrote:3 observations:

Thai coconut milk should only be "sweet" in relation to the natural sweetness of the coconut...meaning...it's not -sweetened- a la Mexican coconut milk.

The use of apricot jelly in Tom Kha Kai is horrifying imo...the sweetening component should be palm sugar(a very specific flavor) or, as a lame substitute, white sugar

Not sure what to make of your fish sauce problem; try 3 Crabs brand.

I'm not going to take the time to pick this all apart, but I will at least take the time to say this much: if the interest of the poster is to make a truly THAI dish like tom khaa, then the poster is advised to stay the hell away from a VIET fish sauce like 3 Crabs brand. Besides the fact that most of the Vietnamese products available for sale in the U.S. are fashioned in an entirely different manner altogether, this particular product is for crap.

But, don't listen to me, listen instead to an expert Thai cook like Kasma Loha-unchit:

http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/featur ... auce1.html

E.M.

oh my hellish christ

3 Crabs, formerly well-thought of---corroborated among CIA chefs and...well, I first learned of it on a decent Thai cooking site years back---(it's apparently considered *VIET* swill by the cognoscenti...go figure...)

what's wrong with my suggestions, Erik M?

palm sugar is used in tom kha kai....if necessary

nuoc mam vs. nam pla...well f*** me...my palate's just too plebian to notice the difference

coconut milk: Mae Ploy works for me

I consider myself fairly adept at making Tom Kha Kai

*dtom ga gai, gai tom kah, tom khaa gai, boiled galangal soup mit pollo, whatever*...mine tastes like the better versions I've had in various Thai restaurants...

huh, what do I know?

(hell, I just had some excellent Thai in Queens...who'da thunk?)

Is this a private argument, or can anyone join?

Well, I'll be sure to consult with you before each and every culinary choice I make, Eric M. *cough*sarcasm*cough*

I got some Three Crabs Fish Sauce while I was out today, and after comparing it to what I used, I'm pretty sure the fish sauce was the problem. I used Filipino fish sauce, and it was a nasty, cloudy, brown mess, mostly made of fish hadn't even heard of. The Three Crabs was a clear brown liquid with just anchovy extract. I got some of the Chaokoh coconut milk that Cook's Illustrated recommended. I probably won't make it again for a couple more weeks, but I'll post again when I do. BTW, I heard that Golden Pacific Market on Broadway, north of Berwyn, regularly has kaffir lime leaves, and for cheap.

I apologize...cough medicine makes me irritable.

I'm actually all ears as to why 3 Crabs is thought of so poorly. Just a few years back it was all the rage among certain (Anglo)chefs. I already am aware that fish sauces are prepared differently for export...tho' how differently? I know to look for the fish itself as the first ingredient on the label and to discount any lists including additives for color or body. Also, I understand, theoretically, the nuances of nam pla vs. nuoc mam---reductively, Thai fish sauce is lighter and less salty than Vietnamese fish sauce. And, of course using a Vietnamese product in a Thai preparation is suspect(tho' I've never had any problems...I've gone from dialing down the Vietnamese fish sauce early on in my experimenting to adding more and more).

shrug

I thought that article that Erik linked was interesting, and informative for me.

There's this snippet regarding Three Crabs:

I do not personally recommend Three Crabs Brand, which several Asian cookbook authors recommend, mainly because it does not appear to be a naturally fermented fish sauce but is, rather, a flavor-enhanced, processed food product. According to the label, hydrolyzed wheat protein and fructose are among the ingredients – both are additives that have not been adequately time-tested for their potential long-term effects on health. Their inclusion suggests that the sauce is made through the process of hydrolysis, whereby a catalyst (sometimes from chemical sources) is added to hasten fermentation, allowing the company to produce large quantities of the product in shorter periods of time than would be required in natural fermentation.

It also appears suspicious that the label states that the fish sauce is a product of Thailand but is "processed in Hong Kong," further indicating that it is more highly processed than naturally fermented fish sauce. When compared with high-quality, naturally fermented fish sauces, the additives in Three Crabs Brand, to the discerning palate, gives this fish sauce a somewhat metallic, artificial after-taste. Since there are a number of excellent natural fish sauces, produced as has been traditionally done for generations, on the market, my preference is to stay with the traditionally made and time-tested products.

Christopher Gordon wrote:I'm actually all ears as to why 3 Crabs is thought of so poorly. Just a few years back it was all the rage among certain (Anglo)chefs.

Reading the article Erik linked to, I noticed that it is made with a hydrolyzed protien. The word "hydrolyzed" in a product like fish sauce or soy sauce indicates that this is not a naturally fermented product but a mimic of fermentation that is sped up through chemical means. After this process is completed, other colors and flavors are added to help the product better approximate a naturally fermented sauce.

I am not speaking from taste experience with this particular sauce, but relaying information as to why it may be considered to be a poor product by many.

I don't think I've ever done a taste comparison between hydrolyzed fish sauces and natural fish sauces, but I've done it with soy sauce and the difference is palpable.

Best,
Michael

tatterdemalion wrote:I thought that article that Erik linked was interesting, and informative for me.

There's this snippet regarding Three Crabs:

I do not personally recommend Three Crabs Brand, which several Asian cookbook authors recommend, mainly because it does not appear to be a naturally fermented fish sauce but is, rather, a flavor-enhanced, processed food product. According to the label, hydrolyzed wheat protein and fructose are among the ingredients – both are additives that have not been adequately time-tested for their potential long-term effects on health. Their inclusion suggests that the sauce is made through the process of hydrolysis, whereby a catalyst (sometimes from chemical sources) is added to hasten fermentation, allowing the company to produce large quantities of the product in shorter periods of time than would be required in natural fermentation.

It also appears suspicious that the label states that the fish sauce is a product of Thailand but is "processed in Hong Kong," further indicating that it is more highly processed than naturally fermented fish sauce. When compared with high-quality, naturally fermented fish sauces, the additives in Three Crabs Brand, to the discerning palate, gives this fish sauce a somewhat metallic, artificial after-taste. Since there are a number of excellent natural fish sauces, produced as has been traditionally done for generations, on the market, my preference is to stay with the traditionally made and time-tested products.

Interesting. As I stated earlier my palate isn't developed enough to notice a supposed metallic aftertaste. I do find the additives suspicious, however compared to other widely-available fish sauces the laundry list is relatively short. I imagine more rigorous research on my part will yield better, more natural products in my SE Asian pantry. 'have to say, I hadn't read the fine print re: 3 Crabs provenance.

Erik M. wrote:But, don't listen to me, listen instead to an expert Thai cook like Kasma Loha-unchit:

http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/featur ... auce1.html

E.M.

E.,

Thanks for the link; very interesting.

A

hydrolyzed wheat protein and fructose are among the ingredients – both are additives that have not been adequately time-tested for their potential long-term effects on health.

What? Fructose is an "additive" that has "not been adequately time-tested for their potential long-term effects on health.?"!!!

So millenia of humans eating fruit isn't adequate time-testing for the effects of fructose on human health???

I made laap last night and used some Thai Kitchen fish sauce that I had to buy in a pinch. I didn't like my end-result, and I thought the fish sauce was the culprit, especially given the fact that I prepared it exactly how I normally would, except for a different brand of fish sauce. Having just learned this little bit about fish sauce, I looked up the ingredients for Thai Kitchen's product: anchovy extract, salt, pure cane sugar. Now maybe it's the cane sugar, or maybe it hadn't fermented long enough, I don't know, but I guess one can also find an inferior product that does not contain the additives.

I'm interested in doing a taste-off of various brands now.