My mom's homemade phyllo - Recipe now included!

In Cleveland, I grew up in a community of about 30 families all from the small town of Velvendo in northern Greece. It was well-known in this community that my mom and aunt made the best phyllo dough and spanakopita (and tiropita (feta cheese), prassopita (leeks), kreatopita (beef and pork) etc.). Making pita was a day-long process that often involved much swearing. I learned later that the swearing came with one particular method for making the dough that involved stretching and drying it. Lately, my mom has been making the slightly simpler, non-swearing version.

A few years ago, I realized that I really need to learn how to make my mom's phylllo so that I can continue the family tradition (and legacy). So over Christmas, she showed me how. Here, in pictures, is her process for making her dough and spanakopita.


Mom making dough:


Finished dough:

Mom's dough circles:


Mom's layered dough circles:


Mom's rolled out layered dough circles:


Mom's finished spanakopita



My mom's phyllo basically involves a dough of flour, water, oil and salt that is made into disks and layered with Crisco then rolled out. It really is wonderful and an entirely different creature from commercial phyllo dough. Heartier, crunchier, more robust. It is my favorite food in the world, especially freshly-baked

So last month, I decided to try my hand at it for the first time. Cathy2 and my friend Fern joined me for the adventure, documented below thanks to Cathy2:

Dimitra's dough circles:


Dimitra's dough circles with vegetable fat:



Dimitra's rolled out layered dough circles:



Dimitra arranging bottom layer:




Spanakopita filling and distribution:




Spanakopita sealing:




Spanakopita baking:




Spanakopita finished, sliced:






See the rolled-in crust edge on the spanakopita? We call it gyro. So I was confused to be introduced in my adolescence to something called gyro that was a shaved beef and lamb sandwich. I wonder how they both have the same name? As you can see from comparing my mom's gyro with mine, I have a ways to go to perfect the technique of making it attractive.

The verdict? It was pretty close. The filling was perfect, the dough was crisp and flaky. The big difference is that the dough wasn't quite as crunchy as my mom's and it seemed to soften within the hour, whereas my mom's stays crunchy all day. Now, my mom uses Crisco for her phyllo and I, trying to be a wee bit healthier, went with a non-transfat Spectrum shortening. That may be the culprit behind the reduced crunchiness. So next time, I'll try making it with Crisco and see if that is what was different.

I want to give a special shout out to Cathy2 for her help that day (it was a 5-hour process start to eating) and for taking the pictures, and for formatting them for me so I could post. Thanks Cathy!

Dimitra

Dimitra,

Thank you! I always love learning something new. It was a privilege to help you document this process. Let me know if you ever want to attempt the 'swearing' version of phyllo!

Again, thanks!

Regards,

Dimitra, thanks for sharing the pics and the commentary. I truly enjoyed both and, in fact, both looked absolutely delicious. I could almost smell them baking. Any time you need a volunteer taster, I'll happily make myself available. If only I'd known your family when I was going to school at CWRU!

Wow, your mom and I have the same Florida souvenir tablecloth. I have always been afraid to attempt my own phyllo, but you make it seem fairly simple (at least the non-swearing version).

Hellodali,

Those are some great pictures. The Chow Poodle, herself an accomplished baker and spanakopita maker, is quite envious. She has never attempted to make her own phyllo and I think you might have inspired her to give it a try next time she is making up a batch of pita.

I'm inspired as well. Could you give us a recipe to go with those great pictures?

I'll gladly post a recipe, but I want to make it one more time to tweak it a bit and test a different flour and shortening before posting a final recipe. If you want to help me make and eat a second attempt, PM me and I'll try to coordinate a date for us. I learned that I could use an extra pair of hands for the rolling out part! I can maybe fit about 4-5 people watching and eating.

Hi,

Dimitra's first spanakopita as a slide show.

Dimitra's first spanakopita on youtube.com with interesting conversation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpNn_Jy48D

Regards,

Wow!! I'm impressed with the homemade phyllo!

Spinach pie was on my menu for next week, and after seeing this thread, even more so.

I assumed that homemade phyllo was similar to the box - making very thin layers and layering them on top of each other one at a time.

Cathy - thanks for posting it on YouTube! My mom will be especially thrilled! One day I will carve out a Saturday to give it another go and report back on the difference Crisco makes (as opposed to the non-partially hydrogenated stuff I used).

Hellodali wrote:See the rolled-in crust edge on the spanakopita? We call it gyro. So I was confused to be introduced in my adolescence to something called gyro that was a shaved beef and lamb sandwich. I wonder how they both have the same name?

Doesn't gyro in Greek mean something that turns or revolves? (Like the root for "gyroscope"?) Since the crust is turned over and the meat revolves on a spit, it makes sense they would both have the same name.

Great pictures. Is that a dowel rod you're using to roll out the dough?

LAZ wrote:

Hellodali wrote:See the rolled-in crust edge on the spanakopita? We call it gyro. So I was confused to be introduced in my adolescence to something called gyro that was a shaved beef and lamb sandwich. I wonder how they both have the same name?

Doesn't gyro in Greek mean something that turns or revolves? (Like the root for "gyroscope"?) Since the crust is turned over and the meat revolves on a spit, it makes sense they would both have the same name.

I would also venture to guess that's the source of both words. I have a related question, though. Where I come from (northwest PA), that shaved beef and lamb sandwich word is pronounced "ji-ro," (hard "g", long "i" sound) as opposed to the "yee-ro" I hear in Chicago. When I first moved here and requested one at my local take-out place, they looked at me like I was crazy. I've since adapted my pronunciation in order to be understood, but I wonder if one is more correct than the other?

Hi,

At the Hellenic Center presently there is an exhibit on Greek foods in Chicago. One of the exhibits is a gyro rotisserie with the backstory on the firm.

Maybe 20-25 years ago, there was an article on the Chicago Tribune on gyros. The quoted someone who allegedly brought gyros to Chicago about his first telephone yellow pages listing: they were indexed under gyroscopes not restaurants.

Regards,

GardenofEatin wrote:

LAZ wrote:

Hellodali wrote:See the rolled-in crust edge on the spanakopita? We call it gyro. So I was confused to be introduced in my adolescence to something called gyro that was a shaved beef and lamb sandwich. I wonder how they both have the same name?

Doesn't gyro in Greek mean something that turns or revolves? (Like the root for "gyroscope"?) Since the crust is turned over and the meat revolves on a spit, it makes sense they would both have the same name.

I would also venture to guess that's the source of both words. I have a related question, though. Where I come from (northwest PA), that shaved beef and lamb sandwich word is pronounced "ji-ro," (hard "g", long "i" sound) as opposed to the "yee-ro" I hear in Chicago. When I first moved here and requested one at my local take-out place, they looked at me like I was crazy. I've since adapted my pronunciation in order to be understood, but I wonder if one is more correct than the other?

Yee-ro. Ask any Greek.

stevez wrote:Yee-ro. Ask any Greek.

Thanks! (Unfortunately, the Greeks in my hometown pronounce it the "ji-ro" way, so they're no help)

is there a recipe to this, or is it a family secret?

LAZ - yes indeed that is a dowel rod I'm using. It was actually the big joke of the day, as it was a bit longer than I needed and it kept getting in the way and hitting Cathy and Fern. But I needed something long enough to roll the dough onto for transport to the pan. My mom uses a dowel rod or something like it. The Greek word for it was "blasti." Or maybe it was the word for it in the vernacular of my village. I've come to learn that some of the Greek words we used were unique to my village.

Dudefella, there is a recipe but I'm going to wait to share until I make another batch with some tweaks based on my first experience. That may not happen for a while given the summer heat and some travel ahead. If you PM me, I'll send it to you when I've figured it out.

Cathy2 wrote:Dimitra's first spanakopita on youtube.com with interesting conversation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpNn_Jy48D

That link didn't work for me. Try here.

What is the reason for the dozen small dough circles?

Did you sort of piece them side by side in order to make the big dough circle?

SP,

The individual circles of dough are rolled out to the size of a small plate, shortening applied to one side then dough circles are stacked like pancakes. Once assembled, then they are all rolled out together to make the upper crust. The flakiness of the phyllo is due to these many layers of fat in between the dough circles that melts when baked.

Regards,

THANK YOU so much for the pictures & YouTube demo. I love that you have experienced making this important family recipe. My Mom died almost 7 years ago and there are so many times that I've wanted to recreate a recipe that she made but fall short because the technique which is equally as important as the ingredients is missing on my part. I have tried my hand at making spanikopita with store bought phyllo-sometimes it just isn't worth the swearing to myself that takes place in my kitchen! I need to ask my "Thea" Mae (aunt to all non-Greeks) if she has made home made phyllo-maybe it will be a new Greek Easter tradition. Again, thanks

Dimitra graciously opened her home and her kitchen to a few of us who wanted to participate in the miracle of non-profanity laced phyllo. Foodie1, aka Joellen; jygach, aka Jyoti; gp60004 (aka Gus of Wiener... and Still Champion), plus Gus' mother-- a good Greek grandmother to keep us on the straight and narrow.

The process has been exceptionally well-documented above. My repetitive photos are here. For historical purposes I'll post only this one, which shows the Crisco.

Delicious and flaky as the end result was

,

it still wasn't what Dimitra was hoping for. Her guess is that stretching a golf ball sized piece of dough to roughly 20X 30" wasn't enough--she should have rolled it even thinner! My guess is that the culprit is the reformulation of Crisco.

With Dimitra's cumulative experience and a few more helping hands, the entire process, including more than an hour in the oven, was about four hours. A great way to spend a rainy Saturday morning.

Ann - thank you so much for the post and the photos. And thanks to all for their help in stretching, rolling and cleaning up. It was great fun and great company. And yes, while tasty, it is still lacking in the level of crispiness in my mom's phyllo. I consulted with her later that day by phone and given the mysterious lack of sheen compared to my mom's phyllo and the doughier nature of mine, I'm thinking that I actually may need to use more Crisco between the layers of dough. And rolling it out just a bit more might help. I also asked her about what they used in the village decades ago when her mother was making phyllo, and you were all right in guessing they used lard. Indeed they did. Much as I'm a pork-loving gal, I'm thinking lard might overwhelm the spinach and might be too much with the briny, salty feta? Of course, many of the porkfat-erati will probably beg to differ .

I am going to try it again in the next few weeks to see if I can get it just right. Maybe between Christmas and New Year's when I am not working, as I'm hoping to serve some with NYE dinner. If you'd like to watch and help me in my continuing attempts at phyllo perfection, pm me and we can try to arrange a good date and time. If you want to be there for the eating of the final product, it's about a four to five hour process.

This is simply wonderful. The only ones who knew how to make phyllo in my family were my two grandmothers in Greece. Well, they have both passed away and took the knowledge with them.

Thank you, Dimitra.

Christina

HI,

We all imagine to some extent the past heavy use of lard overwhelmed foods with their porkiness. I have a hunch the pork fat was so omnipresent that it was sensory negated out. Today we are not used to the presence of pork fats, that we sense it immediately when cooked into a pie or phyllo. Whereas our ancestors didn't focus on the porkiness because it was so common, but on the sweet or savory fillings.

Regards,

I was happy to accompany Dimitra recently during a phyllo-making session. Far from being profanity-laced, she appeared to have a deft hand with the dough; breezily putting together the layers. She sent me home with a "personal-sized" spanakopita:



Because I dove into it, I didn't get a picture of the inside, but I can assure you the layers were light and flaky. There is such a difference between homemade phyllo and the commercial kind.

Thanks, Hellodali.

My pleasure! Thanks to you and Cinny's Mom for the good company. Phyllo-making goes faster with good conversation.

I think over my several attempts, I've isolated the culprit involved when the dough is more bready-flaky than crispy/crunchy-flaky. It's all about how wet the dough is. I remember one time last year while kneading it, I used extra flour during the kneading and that's when it was it's most bready. So since then, I've been trying to figure out how the dough should feel when it's mixed, and then kneading it with extra vegetable oil instead of flour. It will likely take several more tries before I have a solid feel for when the dough is just right. I'll be baking the big pita this Saturday, so I can see then how it compares to my mom's and if I'm getting close.

I hadn't seen this thread before yesterday's bumps - thanks for the pics & details about the technique!

Also, I don't have much experience with Greek food but I do enjoy a good spanakopita...but tiropita, prassopita, kreatopita? You've blown my mind! Any recommendations on a good place where I can find these tasty-sounding items?

I haven't seen the other varieties much except for an occasional tiropita. But then again, I don't frequently go to Greek restaurants. However, Taxim, the new Greek place in Wicker Park has prassopita on the menu. With housemade phyllo. Chef David and I have compared phyllo making notes in a recent conversation. He uses a somewhat different process that I'd love to observe some day. I'm going for the first time later this week for dinner and will report back, of course.

So, 2 ½ years from when I started this process, I finally made a spanakopita that tastes just like my mom’s. Opaa’s all around!

As I noted above, while the phyllo I was making was flaky, it just wasn’t as crispy/crunchy as my mom’s and tended to soften much sooner than hers did. My most reason theory was that my dough needed to be wetter. But I don’t think that was it as I double checked measurements with my mom when I was home over Christmas.

I am almost 99% positive it’s about the flour – specifically Montana Sapphire flour.

When I made this batch, I used Montana Sapphire which I brought back with me from Cleveland. As I was working with the dough, it felt dryer than my last few batches so I thought I’d end up with phyllo still lacking the crisp. Imagine my surprise and delight when the phyllo turned out just right. Flaky and crispy and crunchy and it stayed that way for hours.

Now about that flour. All I know is that it’s unbleached all-purpose flour and lists malted barley flour in the ingredients (in addition to wheat flour and the added nutrients). I also read somewhere online that it’s 10% protein flour. There is also an interesting note on the bag: “When using this flour with ordinary recipes, use 2 level tablespoons less flour per sifted cup than the recipe calls for.” It’s made by ConAgra.

So far, I’ve not seen it anywhere for sale in the Chicago area. Has anyone seen it for sale anywhere or will I just need to stock up every time I go home? Or is there another equivalent flour under another brand? If you can help me solve the puzzle flour – either where to find it locally or equivalent brand - I will make you your own spanakopita!

Now that I produced a near perfect pie (I still have to work on making the rolled edges as pretty as my mom’s) I feel I can post the recipe so here it is below the pics. It’s my first time writing out my mom’s recipe for others so let me know if anything is not clear and feel free to pm me with any questions and let me know if you give it a go.

Spanakopita just out of the oven




Interior shots





MAMA HELLODALI’S SPANAKOPITA WITH HOMEMADE PHYLLO
(makes one jelly roll pan size spanakopita)


Phyllo

12 c. Montana Sapphire unbleached white flour
3 ¾ c. water
3/4 c. oil
2 t. salt
Cornstarch for dusting
Vegetable shortening (we use Crisco – don’t know what the results would be with a non- trans fat shortening)
½ stick butter + additional ½ c. shortening melted together

Equipment:
Bowl
Large pot or sauce pan for cooking filling
Small sauce pan for melted butter and shortening
Heavy cotton table cloth
Dowel rod 1-2” diameter about 3 feet long
Pastry brush
Standard size jelly roll pan


Mix flour, water, oil and salt until well blended. Oil hands and knead in bowl until smooth - 5-10 minutes? If the dough is sticky, oil hands – don’t add additional flour. Cover with plastic directly on dough and let rest at least two hours. Can be made a day ahead and refrigerated. Bring to room temperature before continuing.

For bottom crust of spanakopita - Spread out table cloth over a large table and dust center with cornstarch. Pour out about a cup of cornstarch on one corner of work surface. Tear off 16 balls of dough, a bit bigger than golf ball size (about 2 1/2” in diameter maybe?). Flatten each ball in cornstarch mound. Using dowel rod, roll each ball out to about 4” circle. Then roll each circle again into about 6” circle.

Stretch one round to about 8” circle. Using fingers, spread a thin layer of vegetable shortening (the solid shortening, not the melted butter/shortening combo) over the entire circle (see pics above for a sense of how much shortening to use – I estimate maybe about 2-3 t.?). Stretch out another round and place on top of first circle. Repeat with remaining circles, stacking them like pancakes layered with Crisco, stretching circles to fit. Don’t use Crisco on the last circle. Seal edges of the stack by tucking under. Dust top with cornstarch. Let rest covered with plastic for 10-15 minutes.

Grease jelly roll pan by brushing with some of the melted shortening/butter mixture. Dust stack of dough rounds lightly with cornstarch and dust dowel rod with cornstarch as well. Using the dowel rod, roll out the stack of dough circles so that each side extends about 4-5” larger than the pan. Roll large sheet of phyllo onto dowel rod then, then unroll and fit phyllo into pan gently, without stretching. Brush with butter/shortening all the way to edges of dough.

Pour in spinach filling and spread out leaving ½ “ border between filling and edges of pan.

Prepare top crust the same way you did the bottom crust. Roll onto filling. Trim phyllo dough so that it extends about 3” past edges of pan. Butter edges and roll and tuck in so that it forms a thick rolled edge around the entire pan. Brush entire entire pie with butter/shortening mix. Poke holes in top crust with knife tip.

Spanakopita can be baked right away at 350 until nicely browned – about 1 hour or so. It can also be wrapped tightly and frozen for a few weeks. If frozen, bake first for 15 minutes at 250 then increase heat to 350 and continue baking until golden brown. This will take at least 1 ½ hours.

Spanakopita Filling

3 medium onions, chopped fine
1 bunch scallions, chopped
¼ c. olive oil
3 boxes frozen chopped spinach, thawed and squeezed dry
4 large eggs
¾ lb. large curd cottage cheese
1 ½ T. flour
½ pound feta cheese

Saute onions in olive oil until translucent. Add spinach and scallions and cook 3-4 minutes. Cool to room temperature. (Spinach filling can be made a day ahead up to this point). Whisk eggs in a bowl. Stir into completely cooled spinach mixture. Stir in cottage cheese. Stir in flour.

Stir in feta just before pouring into crust.