20 Questions about Baking Basics & Freezing Stuff

Does anyone know if you can freeze nonfat dry milk powder? And self-rising flour? Is there anything besides cornstarch-thickened stuff and custards that you can't or shouldn't freeze?

I found a recipe for sourdough bread, but it states you should leave the starter at room temperature for 12-24 hours uncovered. Why can't you cover it with plastic? No way I'd leave it uncovered in our place (Pie Dude would have a fit.)

I never made a caramel cake before, but I'm making it Saturday for Sunday night. Should I leave it in the fridge? Out on the rack? Covered? What's the general rule for baking - how long does it take for cookies/cakes/pies etc. to taste stale or "old"? I know you should make bread products the day you need them, but I'm always afraid that the stuff mentioned above will get nasty overnight, out of spite.

I also have a recipe that asks for Fleishmann's Bread Machine Yeast. Does anyone know what the difference is between that and regular yeast? When recipes ask for Quick Rise or Regular and all I have is the opposite, would there be a problem if I substituted? What would happen?

Did this post drive you totally batshit crazy? Why or why not?

Pie Lady wrote:Does anyone know if you can freeze nonfat dry milk powder?

Yes, indeed. I know the answer.
(See below)

Pie Lady wrote:And self-rising flour?

Know the answer to this one, too!
(See below)

Pie Lady wrote:Is there anything besides cornstarch-thickened stuff and custards that you can't or shouldn't freeze?

Yup.
(It's unclear where you're going with this so I don't know what kinds of things to list as can't/shouldn't be frozen. It's a long list including lots of cheeses, fruits, veggies, and other things. What did you have in mind?)

Pie Lady wrote:Why can't you cover it with plastic?

'Cause.
(Actually, you can.)

Pie Lady wrote:I never made a caramel cake before, but I'm making it Saturday for Sunday night. Should I leave it in the fridge?

Nope.

Pie Lady wrote:Out on the rack?

Yup.

Pie Lady wrote:Covered?

Yup.

Pie Lady wrote:how long does it take for cookies/cakes/pies etc. to taste stale or "old"?

Depends.
(On the tastee's ability to distinguish and/or care)

Pie Lady wrote:I also have a recipe that asks for Fleishmann's Bread Machine Yeast. Does anyone know what the difference is between that and regular yeast?

Nope.

Pie Lady wrote:When recipes ask for Quick Rise or Regular and all I have is the opposite, would there be a problem if I substituted?

Nope.

Pie Lady wrote:What would happen?

It will take more (or less) time to rise.

Pie Lady wrote:Did this post drive you totally batshit crazy?

Nope.

Pie Lady wrote:Why or why not?

'Cause I had this totally batshit crazy reply in mind.

PS Answer to the first two questions: (Yes, you can; wrap it in plastic and then foil--in other words, take it out of the paper sack/box first.)

Completely mundane reply.

A very useful website, Michelle, and one worth knowing about. I would note, however, one thing. The site talks about freezing things at zero degrees. There are few, if any, home freezers that get that cold. Most home freezers stay in the 20s, not at zero and that makes a big difference.

Gypsy Boy wrote:A very useful website, Michelle, and one worth knowing about. I would note, however, one thing. The site talks about freezing things at zero degrees. There are few, if any, home freezers that get that cold. Most home freezers stay in the 20s, not at zero and that makes a big difference.

Freezers should be about -20 ºC, that's around 0 ºF (-4 ºF).
Not taken at home, but the kitchen variety freezer (Kenmore) I have nearby seems to conform


There are also -40 ºC freezers as well as ultra low ( -80 ºC) but these are typically for commercial/industrial/laboratory use.

Pie Lady wrote:I found a recipe for sourdough bread, but it states you should leave the starter at room temperature for 12-24 hours uncovered. Why can't you cover it with plastic?

Plastic is fine, since it will allow gasses to escape once the yeast starts to work. The author of the recipe just wants to make sure that you don't store the starter in a tightly sealed container which could explode while the dough ferments.

Pie Lady wrote:I also have a recipe that asks for Fleishmann's Bread Machine Yeast. Does anyone know what the difference is between that and regular yeast? When recipes ask for Quick Rise or Regular and all I have is the opposite, would there be a problem if I substituted? What would happen?

Bread machine yeast is also known as instant yeast, and I'm assuming that by "regular yeast", you mean active dry. Instant yeast can be added directly to flour and water to make dough, but active dry needs to be proofed in warm water first (around 100 F). You should also use 1/3 parts more active dry if substituting for instant because active dry has less live yeast than instant.

sazerac wrote:

Gypsy Boy wrote:A very useful website, Michelle, and one worth knowing about. I would note, however, one thing. The site talks about freezing things at zero degrees. There are few, if any, home freezers that get that cold. Most home freezers stay in the 20s, not at zero and that makes a big difference.

Freezers should be about -20 ºC, that's around 0 ºF (-4 ºF).
Not taken at home, but the kitchen variety freezer (Kenmore) I have nearby seems to conform

Actually, I meant in the 20s Fahrenheit. Now you have me curious. I just read something very recently that discussed this very issue and I was under the impression (perhaps mistaken) that home freezers usually only cooled to about 20F, not zero. I will investigate and report!

Gypsy Boy wrote:Actually, I meant in the 20s Fahrenheit. Now you have me curious. I just read something very recently that discussed this very issue and I was under the impression (perhaps mistaken) that home freezers usually only cooled to about 20F, not zero. I will investigate and report!

Mine has a freezer set at zero degrees. It holds this temp without even breathing hard. If you hare having temp issues with your freezer two things to check are the coils (make sure that they are not obstructed or dust covered) and that the freezer compartment doesn't need to be defrosted.

Pie Lady wrote:I found a recipe for sourdough bread, but it states you should leave the starter at room temperature for 12-24 hours uncovered. Why can't you cover it with plastic? No way I'd leave it uncovered in our place (Pie Dude would have a fit.)

I'm guess part of the reason for leaving it uncovered is to allow it to pick up wild yeasts from the air, which could enhance the sourdough flavor.

In many situations, it is suggested that you cover the bowl with a damp cloth (in theory a deep enough bowl so the cloth doesn't touch the bread) This would allow for air circulation and yeast and prevent things like, I don't know, dog hair (I own a Chow mix) from getting in your dough.

nr706 wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:I found a recipe for sourdough bread, but it states you should leave the starter at room temperature for 12-24 hours uncovered. Why can't you cover it with plastic? No way I'd leave it uncovered in our place (Pie Dude would have a fit.)

I'm guess part of the reason for leaving it uncovered is to allow it to pick up wild yeasts from the air, which could enhance the sourdough flavor.

Same thought occurred to me. But then I decided that the only way it will really get sour enough to make a noticeable difference is to keep that starter and use it over and over. Leaving it exposed for a "mere" 24 hours seems to me not enough to make a difference for at least the first loaf or two....

I'm using wild starters that were captured at least a couple of hundred years ago. A container of these strong cultures contain billions of robust organisms that can easily dominate the a few locals dropping in for a visit. IMO, there will be NO change to the flavor of the bread by exposing a healthy culture to a local strain and even less chance of contamination. Even so, I never keep them uncovered any longer than necessary.

Bill/SFNM

Pie Lady wrote:Does anyone know if you can freeze nonfat dry milk powder? And self-rising flour? Is there anything besides cornstarch-thickened stuff and custards that you can't or shouldn't freeze?

Mhays' link will provide answers to all your freezing questions.

Pie Lady wrote:I found a recipe for sourdough bread, but it states you should leave the starter at room temperature for 12-24 hours uncovered. Why can't you cover it with plastic? No way I'd leave it uncovered in our place (Pie Dude would have a fit.)

Does your sourdough recipe call for adding adding a starter culture, or does it rely totally on wild yeasts, like this one? In that case, 24 hours uncovered may not be long enough. You can drape it lightly with cheesecloth to keep dust out, but you have to let the air get to it.

Pie Lady wrote:I never made a caramel cake before, but I'm making it Saturday for Sunday night. Should I leave it in the fridge? Out on the rack? Covered?

It depends on your recipe. I'd probably refrigerate it. And I'd definitely put a cake dome over it.

Pie Lady wrote:What's the general rule for baking - how long does it take for cookies/cakes/pies etc. to taste stale or "old"? I know you should make bread products the day you need them, but I'm always afraid that the stuff mentioned above will get nasty overnight, out of spite.

That also depends on your recipe. Items with a high sugar content, like molasses cookies, store very well. I have a recipe for ANZAC biscuits that will keep a month or more.

Pie Lady wrote:I also have a recipe that asks for Fleishmann's Bread Machine Yeast. Does anyone know what the difference is between that and regular yeast? When recipes ask for Quick Rise or Regular and all I have is the opposite, would there be a problem if I substituted? What would happen?

See the FAQ at Fleishmann's.

Gypsy Boy wrote:

nr706 wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:I found a recipe for sourdough bread, but it states you should leave the starter at room temperature for 12-24 hours uncovered. Why can't you cover it with plastic? No way I'd leave it uncovered in our place (Pie Dude would have a fit.)

I'm guess part of the reason for leaving it uncovered is to allow it to pick up wild yeasts from the air, which could enhance the sourdough flavor.

Same thought occurred to me. But then I decided that the only way it will really get sour enough to make a noticeable difference is to keep that starter and use it over and over. Leaving it exposed for a "mere" 24 hours seems to me not enough to make a difference for at least the first loaf or two....

Most likely your starter is not picking up wild yeast. You probably have a starter with active yeast in it already, stored in the fridge. Typically, you take the starter (or some of it) out of the fridge, let it come up to room temperature, feed it with fresh flour and water, let it sit, and then use it. During the feeding stage, the yeast that is already in the starter is feeding on the flour and multiplying. You aren't picking up new yeast from the air.

During any of these stages, it is perfectly fine to cover the starter with plastic wrap. I do it all of the time.

Freezers should be about -20 ºC, that's around 0 ºF (-4 ºF).
Not taken at home, but the kitchen variety freezer (Kenmore) I have nearby seems to conform
Image

There are also -40 ºC freezers as well as ultra low ( -80 ºC) but these are typically for commercial/industrial/laboratory use.

So, I have a run of the mill medium sized Frigidaire refrigerator/freezer in my apartment (it's stainless steel and labeled "Gallery" on the front... it's certainly not commercial, but I don't know any more about it than that). A few weeks ago I cranked it up to high in the hopes of freezing the bowl of my ice cream maker quickly. Normally, I leave the thing in there for 24 hours, as the manufacturer recommends, but I was hoping to get away with a quicker freeze for a dinner party that evening.

When I went back into the freezer 8 hours later, not only was the bowl frozen, but two bottles of vodka I had in the freezer were frozen SOLID. I mean there was zero liquid in the bottles, they were both pure ice (they were both about 3/4 full and didn't explode). One bottle was Level vodka, the other was a Polish potato vodka. Following an admittedly superficial check online at the temp. vodka freezes at, it looks like my domestic freezer had somehow managed to go below -40 F or so.

Clearly there's something screwy with the thing. I'm pretty sure its not supposed to go that low--in fact there was a residual effect from the freezer in the refrigerator part of of the unit. Two or three bottles of beer and a container of milk I had on the top shelf were 1/2 frozen (this had never happened before).

I've since brought the temp back up in the freezer by bringing the setting back to "normal," but I'm wondering if there is any kind of practical utility to having a freezer that gets that cold at home (outside of making flavored "vodka popsicles," which I may have to try this summer).

I'm guessing not, but it never hurts to ask.

LAZ wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:I found a recipe for sourdough bread, but it states you should leave the starter at room temperature for 12-24 hours uncovered. Why can't you cover it with plastic? No way I'd leave it uncovered in our place (Pie Dude would have a fit.)

Does your sourdough recipe call for adding adding a starter culture, or does it rely totally on wild yeasts, like this one? In that case, 24 hours uncovered may not be long enough. You can drape it lightly with cheesecloth to keep dust out, but you have to let the air get to it.

Cheesecloth, that's a good idea. It's a starter culture.

Mhays wrote:In many situations, it is suggested that you cover the bowl with a damp cloth (in theory a deep enough bowl so the cloth doesn't touch the bread) This would allow for air circulation and yeast and prevent things like, I don't know, dog hair (I own a Chow mix) from getting in your dough.

You mean like that blueberry coffee cake I made that ended up with a ball of cat fur on top?

Pfft. Picked it off, blew on the cake for good measure, fed it to my coworkers, and they never noticed a thing.

LAZ wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:I also have a recipe that asks for Fleishmann's Bread Machine Yeast. Does anyone know what the difference is between that and regular yeast? When recipes ask for Quick Rise or Regular and all I have is the opposite, would there be a problem if I substituted? What would happen?

See the FAQ at Fleishmann's.

Perfect. Thanks! This is helpful in all kinds of ways.

MrBarossa wrote:...but I'm wondering if there is any kind of practical utility to having a freezer that gets that cold at home (outside of making flavored "vodka popsicles," which I may have to try this summer).

Ice packs and Ice will be extra cold and last a lot longer in drinks, coolers, and ice buckets. I triple dog dare you to try and eat those popsicles without them sticking to your tongue and/or giving you an incredible brain freeze, however.

It would come in handy to do individual flash freezing of bulk purchased items, like chicken pieces.

And, it would be good for quick freezing of stocks.

Can I freeze baked goods which are made with sweetened condensed milk (e.g. seven layer magic bar)?

shorty wrote:Can I freeze baked goods which are made with sweetened condensed milk (e.g. seven layer magic bar)?

Yes.

Hi,

I found this cake pan size conversion chart. Now if it would give a rule of thumb on how long to bake, this would be complete.

Regards,

Neat conversion chart.
But, all this basically tells you is the volume or holding capacity of the pans. Baking time and oven temperature are determined by what you are baking. I would set the oven temp as the recipe calls for and then use visuals, toothpicks and touch to determine when it's done.
As a general rule: the smaller the pan, the less time it will take to bake. The larger the pan, the more time needed.

Lucy,

I suggested recently to someone to look at the varying cooking times for different pan and cupcakes on the back of the box mix. They thought I was crazy, though it does offer an orientation.

Regards,

I guess this fits in this category: how many 10" layer cakes would I need to feed 100, or should I just say screw it and serve cupcakes?

Hi,

National Center of Food Preservation has quite a bit of information on General and specific freezing information

They have a guide specifically for freezing prepared foods from baked goods to sauces to sandwiches to meals.

I am contributing to an event next weekend, a Garden Party. I want to make something that is a) not a beverage and b) doesn't require an oven.
I was thinking homemade toasted coconut-covered marshmallows. With the current weather, is that a good idea? I figure the coconut would keep them from sticking together, but would they melt? At this point, it looks like the weather will be mid- to upper-80s.

Does tapioca ever lose its thickening potency? I have a tiny amount sitting around for adding to pies, but I couldn't tell you how old it is.

Ina Garten Has Forever Changed the Way I Freeze Bread

...
Garten cuts her loaves into giant wedges before wrapping them tightly and storing them in the freezer. Rather than freezing individual slices (which would get too icy) or the whole loaf (which is too big to finish in one sitting, and you'd have to re-freeze), freezing the bread in wedges leaves you with the perfect portion to warm up in the oven later. It also preserves the integrity of the rest of the loaf for some meal in the future.
...
I heated up a wedge in the oven—I did 325 degrees farenheit for 15 minutes—and the result was fabulous: the chunk was perfectly crusty, and when I sliced into it, the bread flesh was chewy and fresh, as the interior had been well protected from the freezer.
....

Of course, defrosting overnight in the fridge is a solid choice, too.

Cathy2 wrote:Ina Garten Has Forever Changed the Way I Freeze Bread

...
Garten cuts her loaves into giant wedges before wrapping them tightly and storing them in the freezer. Rather than freezing individual slices (which would get too icy) or the whole loaf (which is too big to finish in one sitting, and you'd have to re-freeze), freezing the bread in wedges leaves you with the perfect portion to warm up in the oven later. It also preserves the integrity of the rest of the loaf for some meal in the future.
...
I heated up a wedge in the oven—I did 325 degrees farenheit for 15 minutes—and the result was fabulous: the chunk was perfectly crusty, and when I sliced into it, the bread flesh was chewy and fresh, as the interior had been well protected from the freezer.
....

Of course, defrosting overnight in the fridge is a solid choice, too.

Read the linked article but then the comments . . . some people with some serious issues there.