A "pound" of coffee

It's clear that I haven't been paying attention. In fact, I've probably been out to lunch on this particular topic for years--if not decades. But since when has a pound of coffee been 12 ounces? I mean, a pound of butter is a pound (as in 16 ounces). A pound of flour, sugar, you name it...all a full 16 ounces. So when did the coffee industry decide that a pound should be 12 ounces?

Now, in fairness, the plastic packages that shortchange us don't say a pound. At least they're honest enough (or lawsuit-averse enough) not to do anything other than list net weight. But I've always thought of coffee in terms of pounds. Doesn't everyone?

I ordinarily buy my coffee at Intelligentsia and must confess that I've never thought to look for weights on their packages (or, horrors, to check the weight myself). And since their references are solely to pounds and half-pounds, I'm reasonably certain that they sell 8 ounce and 16 ounce packages.

So what's the deal with these plastic packages? I bought some coffee this past weekend for my office and most, if not all, of the plastic ones were 12 ounces. I see that French Market in cans is still 16 ounces (though Cafe du Monde, very strangely, is only 15 ounces). And then there's the apparent champion of what I consider misleading: Lavazza, whose can contains a mere 10 ounces!

What's this world coming to?

Not just coffee. There is a wide spread practice of downsizing the amount of goods you get in the package; keeping the price the same. It amounts to a price increase that no one usually notices. Many package goods are following this practice. Cereal, OJ, etc... Even a 5 lb bag of sugar is now only 4 lbs.

I don't know exactly, but there is a loss in overall weight during the roasting process where 1lb going into the roasting process might yield 12 ounces after. Not sure this would make up the 4 ounce difference though.

jpeac2 wrote:I don't know exactly, but there is a loss in overall weight during the roasting process where 1lb going into the roasting process might yield 12 ounces after. Not sure this would make up the 4 ounce difference though.

I'm perfectly prepared to believe that. So why can't they start with 18 or 20 ounces and end up with the 16 required to make up one pound?

stevez wrote:Even a 5 lb bag of sugar is now only 4 lbs.

Say it ain't so!

There was a brief discussion of this a few years ago. See viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14014

As I wrote then, I'm not sure why buying coffee in one-pound bags is inherently better.

If the price of beans goes up from, say, $12/lb to $15/lb, what's the difference if keep the package size the same and raise the price by $3/lb versus reducing the size of the package from 1 lb to 80%, keeping the price of the package at $12?

Also, the weight on the bag refers to the weight of the roasted beans, not the weight of the green (raw) beans.

Package sizes are down all over:
A five pound sack of sugar has only four pounds in it now
A cup of yogurt has 6 oz (I blame yoplait for setting this "standard" -- at least provide plain yo in an 8oz container, you bozos at Dannon!)

I know there's more I've encountered in cooking lately, but I don't recall them right now.

A half-gallon of ice cream is 1.75 quarts.

Darren72 wrote:I'm not sure why buying coffee in one-pound bags is inherently better.

It's not; I don't disagree. The point I'm making is that traditionally coffee was sold--as were many other staples--by the pound. I'm not complaining that I'm paying more per ounce for a smaller package (although I almost certainly am), but that a "pound" ain't what it used to be. Given the historic/traditional manner of buying certain items, I think it becomes almost subconscious to expect a package of coffee to be a pound. Or a five-pound sack of sugar (or flour) to contain five pounds. They're playing with our minds. Mine is confused enough already, thank you; I don't need "them" to destroy my expectations.

IIRC, the coffee trend started with Folgers (P&G), who downsized their pound cans of coffee because they claimed they'd developed a different method of grinding the beans (grind particles were flat, exposing more surface area), so less coffee could be used to make the same strength coffee. Then competitors saw they could away with the same thing without the technology, and the trend spinned out of control.

At least the packages list the correct net weight. I can't tell you how many times I've ordered a pint of beer, and when the glass doesn't look as full as I thought it should, been told that 14 oz. is the new pint.

I wish marketing departments would take advantage of this instead of jumping on this train: I remember a while back in the dark ages when I worked for a marketing research firm, they discovered a competitor's baby food had done this, and helped the firm create an ad campaign about staying the same size.

At some point, they are going to have to raise prices - after all, you can only downsize so much until you're down to zero (or a point where it's close enough to zero not to matter.) Some of this, though, is on the consumer: most grocery stores have things priced on their tags by a standardized unit of measure (fie, fie, on the grocery stores that change this up.) and that's the price I look at. I wish Americans weren't so easily fooled by this practice - I doubt they would do it if it didn't work.

Funny how as things decrease in the grocery store, serving sizes are still insanely large at restaurants - again, driven by the consumer. We might not notice an ounce or two out of our bag of coffee, but darned if you're going to shave an ounce off our pound of steak.

The GP wrote:A half-gallon of ice cream is 1.75 quarts.

Not even -- many of Breyers are now 1.5 quarts.

Gypsy Boy wrote:I ordinarily buy my coffee at Intelligentsia and must confess that I've never thought to look for weights on their packages (or, horrors, to check the weight myself). And since their references are solely to pounds and half-pounds, I'm reasonably certain that they sell 8 ounce and 16 ounce packages.

Intelligentsia has been at 12 oz bags in many non-company retail locations for a while (at least the last two years), but the company stores still sell in 16 oz and 8 oz packages. (From time to time I actually weigh the product at home just for kicks and it sometimes (even accounting for the bag) is up to an ounce or so over but never under, so no chicanery there.) I've found that the 12 oz price is typically greater than 3/4 of the price of a pound, so it is typically a worse deal. I tend to buy at the company shops rather than from third party retailers because of this, plus the fact that the roast dates are typically more recent and you get $2 off any pound on Tuesdays and $3 off the roaster's special on Fridays.

JoelF wrote:

The GP wrote:A half-gallon of ice cream is 1.75 quarts.

Not even -- many of Breyers are now 1.5 quarts.

Sigh. That's part of the reason I don't buy the larger sizes. A pint of Ben and Jerry's is still a pint.

The GP wrote:A pint of Ben and Jerry's is still a pint.

Yeah, but it's not made by either Ben or Jerry. It's made by Unilever.

nr706 wrote:

The GP wrote:A pint of Ben and Jerry's is still a pint.

Yeah, but it's not made by either Ben or Jerry. It's made by Unilever.

Does that make any difference to the quality of the product?

Not necessarily, although I haven't read their ingredient labels lately. But the Unilever ownership certainly contrasts with the "two hippies making ice cream in Vermont" image they try to project.

For decades, candy manufacturers have changed the size of bars instead of prices when cocoa prices fluctuate.

The P&G coffee technology issue is different than the current trend. P&G and Maxwell House did have "high yield" technology that supposedly gave the same cup yield out of 15 oz than ordinary coffee gave out of 16 oz. I don't think Intelligentsia is claiming that a 12 oz bag give the same yield as a 16oz bag. it's just an attempt to hide pricing while keeping the product at an apparently more affordable shelf price.

Ben and Jerry's was originally made by two hippies in Vermont who decided to sell out for the big bucks. Why blame Unilever for keeping the same image?

nr706 wrote:Not necessarily, although I haven't read their ingredient labels lately. But the Unilever ownership certainly contrasts with the "two hippies making ice cream in Vermont" image they try to project.

Sure, but that two hippies thing has always been marketing, even when it was Ben and Jerry.

It's quite annoying when you get old recipes that say add an 8 oz can of evaporated milk (for instance) and the only cans out there are 6 oz or 12 oz!

jpschust wrote:

nr706 wrote:Not necessarily, although I haven't read their ingredient labels lately. But the Unilever ownership certainly contrasts with the "two hippies making ice cream in Vermont" image they try to project.

Sure, but that two hippies thing has always been marketing, even when it was Ben and Jerry.

Not to mention that the ice cream just isn't that great. It's better than the even more mass-market stuff, but that isn't saying much at all.

To add to this, I have many of my mother's recipes. My mother died in 1957. I have a recipe for a milky way cake that calls for X number of 5 cent bars. Your guess is as good as mine on how to make this cake.
Paulette

rickster wrote:The P&G coffee technology issue is different than the current trend. P&G and Maxwell House did have "high yield" technology that supposedly gave the same cup yield out of 15 oz than ordinary coffee gave out of 16 oz. I don't think Intelligentsia is claiming that a 12 oz bag give the same yield as a 16oz bag. it's just an attempt to hide pricing while keeping the product at an apparently more affordable shelf price.

In the 1990's, Folgers came out with an "ultra coffee" that was supposedly concentrated with taste. It was a flop and much of it ended up at MacFrugal's and Odd Lots with many other of the MBA inspired brand extensions.

The 13 oz can is just a ploy to meet a price point.

What I find interesting is that when I grind 1# of coffee, it fills up nearly two whole 13-oz cans.

At home, I am getting out of the Grinding business when I complete the next 24 oz bag of coffee beans. I am moving over to 16-oz Community Coffee dark roast out of Baton Rouge.

I've also noticed that a "case" of pop now has only 20 cans....not 24.

Pop comes in 12, 20, 24 and 32 count packages. You just have to pay attention.

LTH,

Now that I'm getting used to the fact that a quart of Hellman's is no longer a quart, and that a 5 lb. bag of Domino sugar is now 4 lbs, I've now experienced reduced portion size at a favorite restaurant.

Yesterday, at Phoenix, we ordered shrimp fun rolls, and what we received was about 2/3 the size they formerly served. We also had shrimp dumplings, curry squid, shrimp spring rolls, potstickers, steamed tripe, black pepper short ribs, and steamed spareribs. Only the fun rolls were of a reduced portion size.

Now I'm curious. Any other LTHers experiencing smaller portions rather than higher prices at long time favored restaurants? Personally, I'd rather pay an extra buck and get what I'm used to getting.

Evil Ronnie wrote:Now I'm curious. Any other LTHers experiencing smaller portions rather than higher prices at long time favored restaurants? Personally, I'd rather pay an extra buck and get what I'm used to getting.

Yes, it is happening all over the place. The portion sizes are shrinking but in many places, it is really subtle. Since I was in the business, I can pretty much tell what I am receiving.

Having said that, I would like to see portion size shrink from "way too much" to "just a bit more than I should eat".

What I see more of is that things are "available on request" rather than automatically given. The bad part is that you have to ask; the good part that there is no waste.

Jlawrence01,

I understand that portions are shrinking subtly and not so subtly. And I find it really curious that out of nine different items we ordered yesterday, only one out of the nine was visibly smaller in size than previously. And after thirty years in kitchens, I think I also have a pretty good eye for portion size and other details.

I haven't noticed any portion changes in any of our small circle of frequently visited places. Not sure about the prices.

A few months ago, I saw some friends who were in town for a Hilton Hotels food and beverage conference. One of the changes Hilton was getting ready to introduce companywide, was the elimination of glasses of ice water at all of their banquet functions. Ice water will be only upon request. Sound like a huge savings on labor, not to mention the savings on breakage.

I read a few months ago that McDonalds was considering downsizing certain menu items. I'm interested in hearing what portion changes folks are seing day to day. This is the first one that I've noticed.

Thanks,

I don't think anyone is trying to pass off the smaller packages of coffee as a pound - of course, retailers hope customers don't notice that they have to buy coffee somewhat more frequently. If you buy coffee from a store where Intelligentsia or Metropolis coffee is sold in bulk, it will be priced by the pound. It's only at Whole Foods, Treasure Island, etc, that the package size has shrunk while the price remained the same. I first noticed it about a year and a half ago. I think the best bargains are any Intelligentsia store on Tuesday (all coffee $1 off per pound), and Beans & Bagels for Metropolis coffee - about $11/lb, I think.

A lot of packaging size changes with regards to cans may reflect the fact that the US is now the only country that uses the English system of measurement - if you're a German food conglomerate buying cans from China to package tomatoes from Chile for the US/Canada market, most of the people along the line will think in terms of metric units. I think this is especially true for products that are being distributed really widely, or are primarily sold to immigrant populations who still work mentally in metric. So it's not weird that my coconut milk is 13.5 oz - it was packaged as 400 ml.

Gypsy Boy wrote:It's clear that I haven't been paying attention. In fact, I've probably been out to lunch on this particular topic for years--if not decades. But since when has a pound of coffee been 12 ounces? I mean, a pound of butter is a pound (as in 16 ounces). A pound of flour, sugar, you name it...all a full 16 ounces. So when did the coffee industry decide that a pound should be 12 ounces?

I had a very interesting discussion yesterday with the local IGA dairy manager. Locally, IGA was selling Tropicana Pure Premium (59 oz) for $0.99 with a $10 purchase. They had none in stock. He apologized profusely as he failed to order any because 59 oz orange juice does not sell at his store and he forgot about the ad. He gave me the Trop 50 as a substitute.

I asked him why he was not selling 59 oz orange juice. He told me that the WIC program requires purchase of a 64 oz container. The only local source for 64 oz juice containers is the local dairy's brand. He told me that they used to sell 600-800 units of 64 oz juice, 90% branded (Tropicana, Minute Maid, Simply) and now the 59 oz sells less than 150.

I know that this is an anecdote, but it is interesting.

If you pick up a "pint" of alcohol at a liquor store, you are now really getting a little over 12 ounces, not a pint. That is either good or bad, depending on how you feel about your drinking!