Whole Rib Roast

Hi,

I am flaunting family convention this year, we are having a standing rib roast rather than (another) turkey. It has taken weeks of discussion to get the major players to agree, though they are still hoping (against hope) I will throw a turkey in the oven, too. This is really a half-win, because I wanted to roast the beef on my smoker; nobody agrees to that. I will make them weep with regret later when I make one just for training sometime in the near future. By next year, I hope to fully convert them to standing rib roast cooked on the smoker.

I found a method in Cook's Illustrated (Nov, Dec 2002) where you can make the jus using oxtails, so grilling was not giving up any precious element they like including Yorkshire pudding. I will still make the jus via oxtails this year so they will be used to the idea.

Gary always refers to his life as nothing says excess like excess. I will not steal his line, though I do suffer from (chronic) enthusiasm if something interests me. I went to Costco on Saturday and bought the rib roast, something which is slightly over 19 pounds. From my research, I have the whole rib roast, the first cut as well as the second cut. I have it air drying in the refrigerator as a homage to aging beef, I probably should have started this earlier, though I read cryovac meats do a similar aging process though not the same.

I plan to follow Cook's Illustrated game plan of disconnecting the bones, browning it (except where the bones will be), tying the bones back on and roasting it. They prefer slow and low at 250 degrees for the first hour, then checking the core temperature and continuing cooking for another 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 hours until the center is 125 degrees. Great guidelines for their roast is 8 pounds, I need to adjust for mine, which is a shade over 19. From reading around, the rule of thumb seems to be 15 minutes per pound or almost 5 hours for my roast ... does this sound right?

We have several babies this year, so I don't have the patient older crowd who will roll their eyes and wait an extra hour if I goof.

Has anyone removed the chine or bones themselves from a standing rib roast? I found a Hormel website which suggested it wasn't very difficult. Just slide my boning knife around, right? If I wrong and you have a tip, then please advise.

I welcome your opinion. I will later follow up with what really happened.

I just made a rib roast saturday (Dominicks ranchers reserve at 6.99/lb on sale) and it was remarkably good. I am going to do it again on Christmas eve. Mine was only a 2 rib, 5.5 pounder. I dont cut off the bones until after it is done cooking (they come off very easily, just follow the line of the bone). I cooked the more traditional 450 for 15 minutes then 335 for 1-1 1/4 hours, and the last 15 minutes at 400 convection. I pulled it at 126, and it sat and rose to 135 and was cooked perfectly. While obviously a 19 pounder will take longer, i doubt that it will really take almost 5 hours ( just as a whole tenderloin doesnt take twice as long to cook as a half). I prefer the higher heat cooking because it lets the cap (my favorite part) cook through, and release a lot of its fat, while the eye (everyone elses favorite) stays rare. At the higher heat, the browning step is un necessary. You might do a combo and give it some 400+ heat for a while to brown and then lower to 250 for the duration.
good luck- Will

Cathy2 wrote:
I found a method in Cook's Illustrated (Nov, Dec 2002) where you can make the jus using oxtails, so grilling was not giving up any precious element they like including Yorkshire pudding. I will still make the jus via oxtails this year so they will be used to the idea.

The Cooks Illustrated oxtail jus is superb. Rich and beefy.

Cathy2 wrote:I plan to follow Cook's Illustrated game plan of disconnecting the bones, browning it (except where the bones will be), tying the bones back on and roasting it. They prefer slow and low at 250 degrees for the first hour, then checking the core temperature and continuing cooking for another 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 hours until the center is 125 degrees. Great guidelines for their roast is 8 pounds, I need to adjust for mine, which is a shade over 19. From reading around, the rule of thumb seems to be 15 minutes per pound or almost 5 hours for my roast ... does this sound right?

Has anyone removed the chine or bones themselves from a standing rib roast? I found a Hormel website which suggested it wasn't very difficult. Just slide my boning knife around, right? If I wrong and you have a tip, then please advise.

I welcome your opinion. I will later follow up with what really happened.

It should be trivial to remove the ribs from the roast, just slide your knife in and curve along with the bones. It's just like removing a bone from a bone-in ribeye, but 8 bones instead of one.

I made a 4-rib roast, purchased from Devon Ave Meats, for christmas dinner last year, using the cooks illustrated recipe, which I'll use this time as well, but with a 5-rib roast instead. Devon Ave slices the roast off the bone and ties it back on for you, unless you specify otherwise.

I used the full cooks illustrated method (although I didn't make yorkshire puddings), so I roasted it on the tomato paste/carrots/onions/oxtails in the oven. It all came out wonderfully.

FYI, last year the roast came to either $8 or $9/lb for USDA prime. It was a great, great deal.

-ed

Hi,

I bought cryovac 'Choice' rib roast from Costco at $5.65 per pound. From talking to various butchers there, I learned the smaller rib roasts (at a dollar or more per pound) began as the larger cryovac roasts.

This year, principally due to Gary's influence, I've begun to favor buying cryovac meat over meat in the disposable tray wrapped with plastic. They cryovac meat holds longer and often the food on the tray originated from a cryovac pack.

Cathy2, December 13, 2004 wrote:Today, I was checking out rib roasts for Christmas and noticed the cryovac label indicated it expired today. I inquired with the butcher what do they do with expiring meat. I learned they usually pull the cryovac meat one day before it expires. They break open the pack, then cut it up into smaller roasts or ribeye steaks, where they are laid out for 3 days. If not sold by day 3, they will then grind this meat into hamburger.

He did indicate I could buy the cryovac rib roast and despite the expiration being today, it would be still good for another 2 weeks.

I'm glad you had success with the CI method. BTW - I saw oxtails this weekend on Argyle for $3.99 per pound ... I passed hoping to find something cheaper. I hope that is not the new cost level as it seemed steep.

What is the reason for removing the meat from the bones and then tying them back on? Do you season in between?
-Will

WillG,

If I was cooking the roast, I would have the butcher remove the bones and then tie them back on. My motivation would be the following:

1) The meat is easier to handle when it is raw than when it is 140F. There is less chance of mishap.

2) The butcher will be doing the work, not me.

3) You could season between the ribs and meat (not much of a factor with me.

4) I would serve the roast to the guests and reserve the bones for myself as a great meal.

5) It is cheaper to buy an entire piece of meat (bone-in) than noneless.

jlawrence01 wrote:WillG,

If I was cooking the roast, I would have the butcher remove the bones and then tie them back on. My motivation would be the following:

1) The meat is easier to handle when it is raw than when it is 140F. There is less chance of mishap.

2) The butcher will be doing the work, not me.

3) You could season between the ribs and meat (not much of a factor with me.

4) I would serve the roast to the guests and reserve the bones for myself as a great meal.

5) It is cheaper to buy an entire piece of meat (bone-in) than noneless.

6) If you brown the roast on the stove before putting it in the oven/whatever, you get more surface area to brown, so more of that nice crust. cooks illustrated doesn't use this method, though -- for good reason, doing it this way prevents keeps flavor from the ribs from reaching the meat.

7) you can then use the ribs to add more flavor to the jus

and definitely don't discount #4. keeping the roasted ribs makes my mom very happy. it's also far easier to cut some string to remove the ribs versus whipping out a knife and carving bone-and-all at the table.

Hi,

In the Cook's Illustrated article, they found the meat protected by the bones was the most tender. When they browned the meat, they specifically said not the area protected by the bone. Though the bone off during browning makes it easier to brown. Then you reattach the bones which act like a heat shield before bringing it to the oven.

CI did comparisons of roasts with and without the bone, bone-in/attached was preferred hands down. They also used the bones, while the meat was resting, to enhance the jus ... though my family likes bones so only a few will be used this way.

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

In the Cook's Illustrated article, they found the meat protected by the bones was the most tender. When they browned the meat, they specifically said not the area protected by the bone. Though the bone off during browning makes it easier to brown. Then you reattach the bones which act like a heat shield before bringing it to the oven.

CI did comparisons of roasts with and without the bone, bone-in/attached was preferred hands down. They also used the bones, while the meat was resting, to enhance the jus ... though my family likes bones so only a few will be used this way.

yeah, I just realized that as well, and corrected my post. thanks

Ed

Our posts crossed in the internet, I posted mine then read yours!

I've never been able to bring myself to purchase the cryovac meat at Costco when there are so many fresh alternatives out there. Even during Gary's 5-step BBQ course I didn't do it. Yes, I know that what you buy at the butcher might just be stuff taken out of the cryovac and put in the display case, but still there's something about it that just puts me off. I'm sure if I lived in the middle of Iowa or Mississippi my opinion would be different, but this is Chicago, for crying out loud. Hog butcher to the world. I want fresh meat dammit! You can get some really nice never cryoed rib roasts at places like Peoria Packing or Chicago Meat (or Paulina, Fox & Obel, Gepperth's or Devon meats if you want to pay top dollar).

Anyway, I'm sure your roast will be delicious regardless of where it came from. What I usually do is to cut slits in the top of the cap (relatively deep) and fill them with slivers of garlic, sprigs of rosemary or any other herb you fancy. I cook the roast starting at fairly high heat for the first 1/2 hour or so (depending on my mood), then turn the heat down to 325 or 350 and cook the rest of the way. It never occured to me to cut the bones off ahead of time, since it's no big deal to cut them off later if you desire...or you can serve those with hearty appetities Flintstone cuts with the bone attached. As a happy medium between oven cooked and smoked, you can cook the roast in a standard Weber Kettle. The results are usually stunning when done this way.

Cathy,

On his old television show "Taste", David Rosengarten did a recipe for prime rib that I just found spectaculat when I tried it at home. There is no browning of the roast or flash roasting. Just long slow temperatures.

The result is a prime rib that has this consistently beautiful medium rare consistency except for the most minimal of browned edges. Most prime rib has that geyis color on the outside from being cooked at toop high a temperature.

I've been making rib roasts this way for 10 years now. It is fail proof.

http://www.geocities.com/eedude/Recipes ... meRib.html

Will,

Rosengarten's recipe means a 6.33 hour cook time --- I guess I get this into the oven, then make breakfast. Do you pull at 115 degrees? Gary suggested 125, I have seen as low as 122 ... but 115 is a new low. Is it rare throughout or are the ends still somewhat more cooked? Did you get a crust on your roast? I have to tell you browning a 17 inch long piece of meat is not 1-2-3.

All my sisters will be there: one does eat meat, one eats CAREFULLY and the 3rd does not like her meat red. I cook leg of lamb to rare --- when she was carving herself a piece, she a guest if they wanted cooked or raw! I have already considered telling her to finish her portion off in the microwave.

Just out of curiosity, what do you serve with your rib roast?

YourPalWill wrote:The result is a prime rib that has this consistently beautiful medium rare consistency except for the most minimal of browned edges. Most prime rib has that geyis color on the outside from being cooked at toop high a temperature.

frankly, if that's his goal he may want to consider cooking it sous vide

I really like the textural difference between a slightly crunchy outside and a just-shy-of-medium-rare inside. I don't sear it on the stove for very long, so the crust and the area cooked by the high heat on the stove is very thin, maybe 1/8 or 1/4".

perhaps cooking an entire rib roast sous vide isn't feasible, though. I don't want to think how long it'd take... cook 17 pounds of vacuum-sealed meat in 125 degree water until cooked through, and then brown it quickly on a grill or stove. sounds delicious.

-ed

I just ordered a 8lb boneless ribeye roast. I can use some suggestions on how to prepare this. Thank You

Hi,

I read this more carefully, nobody here has pulled a roast at 115. I guess Will and perhaps Ed are pulling at 125 or just before. Gary has commented if you pull after 125, then you may as well consign the leftovers to hash. I guess I should aim for pulling at 122 and be a shade under medium rare rather than dead on.

On my 17 inch long roast, dead center will be at 8.5 inches and whatever depth it needs. Cook's Illustrated highlighted something rather interesting abuot instant read thermometers. The digital thermometers has their sensors at the tip and analog-dial thermometers has their sensors at 1.5 inches from the tip. In this issue from December, 2002, they liked a temperature probe called the Thermopen at $80! Though they did like the Polder as well, especially the remote one which I have.

Kim,

You may want to consider adjusting your order for a bone-in roast or bone detached and tied back on. What was abundantly clear was the taste of the bone-on was remarkably better.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

I read this more carefully, nobody here has pulled a roast at 115. I guess Will and perhaps Ed are pulling at 125 or just before. Gary has commented if you pull after 125, then you may as well consign the leftovers to hash. I guess I should aim for pulling at 122 and be a shade under medium rare rather than dead on.

On my 17 inch long roast, dead center will be at 8.5 inches and whatever depth it needs. Cook's Illustrated highlighted something rather interesting abuot instant read thermometers. The digital thermometers has their sensors at the tip and analog-dial thermometers has their sensors at 1.5 inches from the tip. In this issue from December, 2002, they liked a temperature probe called the Thermopen at $80! Though they did like the Polder as well, especially the remote one which I have.

I pull at 122 as well, since I like my finished meat at 128-130, sometimes less.

I use a polder probe thermometer, and it worked perfectly. Obviously you'll want to plunge yours in through t he top rather than through an end (since 8.5" is a bit longer than polders), but it sounds like the results will be good.

Did you say you were going to smoke or roast?

-ed

stevez wrote:I've never been able to bring myself to purchase the cryovac meat at Costco when there are so many fresh alternatives out there. Even during Gary's 5-step BBQ course I didn't do it. Yes, I know that what you buy at the butcher might just be stuff taken out of the cryovac and put in the display case, but still there's something about it that just puts me off.

Steve,

It's not about the cryovac, but the fact large hunks of crovac Coscto meat rate high on my price/value/flavor scale. I've never said, nor do I think, a rib roast from Costco is going to be better, taste/texture wise, than an old style butcher shop selling prime never cryovaced beef, or pork for that matter. Though the last few years I've found the pork loin back ribs at Costco to be consistently the best available to my taste and particular BBQ style. Peoria Packing is still my temple of Pork, but Costco does have nice loin backs.

Buying 7-bone standing rib roasts or, for that matter, whole ribs eye or strip loin, at Costco is convenient as I cut what I need for the occasion, say 4-bones of a standing rib roast, slice the rest into steaks, cryovac and freeze.

As Calvin Trillin might conjecture, if the Emperor of China was coming to dinner, yes, I'd go to Allen Brothers and buy a 7-bone dry-age beauty for $15 a pound, my brother in-law and his 3-kids, Costco standing rib roast for $5.49 per pound with 3-4 steaks for the freezer does just fine.

Enjoy,
Gary

Hi,

Just looked in my mailbox, I have a link from Erik M where they discuss rib roast on a blog called Cooking for Engineers. Their recipe calls for so low and slow, it would take 14.5 hours to cook my 19 pound roast.

He then mentioned Saveur has a Traditional Sunday Roast in their January/February 2002 issue. I just ran up and plucked it out my Saveur pile, oh he is so right.

Another link from Erik is Alton Brown's approach, which includes dry aging it for 3 days. So I do a few days more, cannot hurt!

I'm getting more confident about this meal with every bit of feedback. It's not that I am afraid of it, it is just the sheer size of the meat which has had me shaking in my boots a bit.

Ed wrote:Did you say you were going to smoke or roast?

On this occasion, I am roasting. I really wanted to cook it on my smoker, which Gary so kindly provided instructions for, which I will do at a later date.

Truthfully, the only cryovac raw meat I ever bought before this year was corned beef. When I noted the price was usually less, and often the butcher confirmed it was the same meat as the wrapped meats, then I started thinking of it as the fresher choice. In the city, you have more butchers to select from and there is some competition or at least levels of service to choose from. It's been a long time since I have worked with our very local butcher because I always feel I just paid too much.

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

Just looked in my mailbox, I have a link from Erik M where they discuss rib roast on a blog called Cooking for Engineers. Their recipe calls for so low and slow, it would take 14.5 hours to cook my 19 pound roast.

He then mentioned Saveur has a Traditional Sunday Roast in their January/February 2002 issue. I just ran up and plucked it out my Saveur pile, oh he is so right.

The Traditional British Sunday Roast from the Jan/Feb '02 Savuer was one of my most successful meals for company. Well, to hear my guests tell it, at least. I would highly recommend the full spread -- Yorkshire Puddings, Roasted Vegetables, Brussels, Peas, and Horseradish Cream. Whatever you do, Cathy, I implore you to make the Horseradish Cream.

Regards,
Erik M.

G Wiv wrote:Steve,

It's not about the cryovac, but the fact large hunks of crovac Coscto meat rate high on my price/value/flavor scale. I've never said, nor do I think, a rib roast from Costco is going to be better, taste/texture wise, than an old style butcher shop selling prime never cryovaced beef, or pork for that matter. Though the last few years I've found the pork loin back ribs at Costco to be consistently the best available to my taste and particular BBQ style. Peoria Packing is still my temple of Pork, but Costco does have nice loin backs.

Buying 7-bone standing rib roasts or, for that matter, whole ribs eye or strip loin, at Costco is convenient as I cut what I need for the occasion, say 4-bones of a standing rib roast, slice the rest into steaks, cryovac and freeze.

As Calvin Trillin might conjecture, if the Emperor of China was coming to dinner, yes, I'd go to Allen Brothers and buy a 7-bone dry-age beauty for $15 a pound, my brother in-law and his 3-kids, Costco standing rib roast for $5.49 per pound with 3-4 steaks for the freezer does just fine.

Enjoy,
Gary

I'm not necessarily talking about rib roasts in particular, but cryovaced meat in general that puts me off. I'm sure it's mostly psychological on my end, but as long as I have fresh alternatives, I see no need to get over my fear of plastic.

Cathy2 wrote:Another link from Erik is Alton Brown's approach, which includes dry aging it for 3 days. So I do a few days more, cannot hurt!
.

Cathy,

IMHO you are getting into dangerous territory here. Very often mixing and matching information from different recipe sources does not work.

On the simplest level taking length of cooking time from one recipe and oven temperature from another, obviously, will lead to disaster, but there are many subtle pitfalls to consider as well.

I'm sure an experienced cook such as yourself can mix and match, but I have seen technique/recipe blending lead to disaster any number of times on the various BBQ and cooking forums I have participated in over the years.

As far as dry aging in a home refrigerator, the one time I attempted this the meat spoiled as opposed to aged. To properly dry age temperature and humidity needs to be fairly constant, as well as having air flow. A home refrigerator, that is opened and closed numerous times a day, does not lend itself to proper dry-aging. YMMV.

Enjoy,
Gary

Fear of plastic?Credit cards are scary!As well as plastic personalities!

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

I read this more carefully, nobody here has pulled a roast at 115. I guess Will and perhaps Ed are pulling at 125 or just before. Gary has commented if you pull after 125, then you may as well consign the leftovers to hash. I guess I should aim for pulling at 122 and be a shade under medium rare rather than dead on.

On my 17 inch long roast, dead center will be at 8.5 inches and whatever depth it needs. Cook's Illustrated highlighted something rather interesting abuot instant read thermometers. The digital thermometers has their sensors at the tip and analog-dial thermometers has their sensors at 1.5 inches from the tip. In this issue from December, 2002, they liked a temperature probe called the Thermopen at $80! Though they did like the Polder as well, especially the remote one which I have.

I would pull your roast somewhere around 115...certainly no more than 120 for a roast of that size. Because it's so big, you'll have the full gamut of doneness at different parts of the roast when you hit that temp in the middle. A little something for everyone.

Cathy,

The amount of carry over cooking will differ according to the oven temperature used for roasting as well as size of the roast. For example, if you roast at high temperature (400-450 for searing and then 325-350 for roasting) your roast will have built up enough momentum during cooking to rise in temperature as much as ten degrees after being removed from the oven. Slow roasting (250 or so with quick or no sear) will result in much less carry over cooking, maybe 4 to 5 degrees total. Think trying to stop a truck with a full load and brakes not working. Remember the scene in Eat Drink Man Woman where while preparing Sunday dinner, the chef pulls a chunk of rind on pork belly from being deep fried in the wok, and plunges it into ice water. Talk about shocking.

That being said, unless you decide to roast at high temperature, I agree with what SteveZ says...pull it at 115F

Evil Ronnie wrote:That being said, unless you decide to roast at high temperature, I agree with what SteveZ says...pull it at 115F

Evil,

I do standing rib roast direct on my Weber Smoky Mountain, no waterpan. This puts the meat about 20-inches from a hot lump charcoal fire studded with fist sized chunks of wood for flavor.

I rotate the meat every 20-minutes or so and take it off when it hits 125 degrees for 7-bone 14-18 lb roasts. This give me a dead rare middle with the meat becoming progressively more well done towards the edges.

For those with Weber Kettle cookers a similar, and very satisfactory method, is to pile coals on both sides of grill, put an aluminum loaf pan in the middle of coals. Light fire, when coals are engaged pour water into the pan. Place roast directly over the pan.

I make a wet rub of olive oil, worcestershire sauce, garlic powder, onion powder, kosher salt, fresh cracked pepper and Mexican pepper, ancho/chipotle etc, for color and a little spice. Rub it in well and let it sit for at least 15-minutes, this can be done in advance.

The combination of direct over lump charcoal with wood chunks and my rub give the meat a crunchy, spicy, caramelized, juicy, fatty, rich, smoky, meaty riot of flavors I really love.

One thing I have not seem mentioned is, and I think Evil will agree, Be sure to let the roast sit for 15-minutes, this is important so the juices redistribute throughout the meat, cut too soon and all the juice ends up on the platter.

Enjoy,
Gary

That sounds wonderful, Gary.

Speaking of sous vide, a slow poach is a wonderful way to gently cook a beef tenderloin. The recipe linked below was one that I ran across several years ago on the California Culinary Academy's PBS show "Cooking at the Academy". The tenderloin is not cryovaced. Instead, its securely wrapped in saran and/or foil before poaching. It's served with a wonderfully rich savory Sabayon. I've found that some gently steamed baby vegetables make a nicer accompaniment than the sauteed mushrooms referenced in the recipe.

http://homecooking.about.com/library/ar ... beef53.htm

Gary wrote:One thing I have not seem mentioned is, and I think Evil will agree, Be sure to let the roast sit for 15-minutes, this is important so the juices redistribute throughout the meat, cut too soon and all the juice ends up on the platter.

Resting the meat was definitely in the plan, though it is a good reminder. It's a technique I use for Turkey and other meat preparations since it gives you a moment to catch your breath and finish up the gravy without a panic.

Evil!

From today's discussion and what I have read earlier, for oven roasting I tend to favor the low and slow method. Unless advised otherwise, I will allow 15 minutes per pound, which in my case is almost 5 hours ... does this sound right to you? For smaller cuts, there is lots of information on how long to cook (though I will gauge everything to temperature), there is little I can find for this big boy cut. BTW - are you a low and slow or a high heat guy?

Thanks!