Caviar Questions: Urgent Help!

Mr. Franabanana and I typically ring in the New Year with a bit of caviar and other goodies.

But the rise in caviar prices (the Euro? Supplies? Import fees?) as well as what I've read about the endangered sturgeon population has made me consider American caviar.

Has anyone tried domestic sturgeon caviar being farmed in N. California? Or paddlefish? Do you like it? And where do you buy it? I've been looking on the Internet and seen price ranges from $9.95 an ounce to $60.00. Can someone sort it out?

Thanks in advance.

The high prices are due to a temporary ban on sturgeon fishing by several Caspian states. It seems that they've been poorly managing the supply of these fish and they're severely threatened.

There is quite a bit of farmed sturgeon in the US and the quality is highly regarded. I would suggest checking with Fox and Obel or Dirk's Fish and see if they either have the roe in stock or are able to get it for you. Ask for US farmed white sturgeon caviar. It's the closest thing you'll get to Caspian Beluga.

Other options include salmon, whitefish, and trout roe (easy to find).

Here's a website about eco-friendly caviar options:
http://www.caviaremptor.org/

Best,
EC

HI,

I would suggest the Euro-Dollar ratio is responsible for the high costs.

Collins Caviar, based in Chicago, is an American source of caviar. I've had their sturgeon as well as a number of their other varieties. I haven't had side-by-side Russian-American caviar tastings, though I have eaten quite a bit of the Russian and Iranian caviar, to at least feel the American was more than satisfactory.

Collins Caviar can be purchased directly or at Sunset Foods and Treasure Island.

Happy New Year!

I swear by the american paddlefish caviar. I had some last weekend from http://www.kelleyskatch.com that was excellent, it is 10 bucks an ounce plus shipping. Mackenzie ltd (sp?) is always good, and a bit more expensive. for new years, I am trying something new and ordered over ebay from justcaviar. I got a full pound for 120 bucks plus 21 shipping. Havent received it yet, so cant comment as to quality, but the guy seems legit. Most retailers around here are much more expensive.
-Will

Will,

I have never seen or tried paddlefish caviar. Is the roe comparable in size/color/flavor to sturgeon? What, if any, particular characteristics are distinct to the paddlefish caviar?

Best,
EC

eatchicago wrote:The high prices are due to a temporary ban on sturgeon fishing by several Caspian states. It seems that they've been poorly managing the supply of these fish and they're severely threatened.

There has been a tremendous amount of poaching to the extent 'managing' was next to impossible. There have also been a number of competing interested parties amongst the nations surround those waters and very likely little cooperation. So if there is a ban, then this may be a good start on really managing the situation.

Sturgeon are rather large fish with a pretty good tasting meat. It is not unusual to see dead, eviserated fish along the coast the leftovers of poaching.

&&&

I'm looking forward to the report on the caviar purchased via e-Bay.

Regards,

I stopped eating Russian caviar just after the Chernobyl nuke accident. I had read at the time that some of the most prized fishing grounds had been contaminated and would stay so for at least 50 - 100 years. Given the "honesty and quality control" of the Russian Government, I wonder if the Caviar coming out of the former Soviet Union is really safe to eat. Does anyone have any insight on this. Is it simply an Urban Legand?

I slightly mis-spoke. The ban is not on fishing, but a UN ban on exporting. That's what I get for listening to NPR while I'm half-awake.

Here's a clip from the Miami Herald on 11/28/04:

The U.N. agency that controls trade in endangered species has halted exports of caviar until the countries where it is produced comply with an agreement to protect sturgeon, an official of the agency said Tuesday.

The main exporting countries, those that border the Caspian Sea, have failed to provide an accurate measurement of how much sturgeon is illegally harvested, the official, Dr. Jim Armstrong, deputy secretary-general of the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, said in an interview at the agency's headquarters in Geneva. The countries had not complied with a conservation agreement signed in 2001. It took effect this year, and the agency has not issued new permits since January.

As a result of the ban, the legal supply of Caspian caviar in the United States -- the osetra, beluga and sevruga that sells for up to $3,000 a pound in the West -- is likely to dry up once the 2003 harvest is consumed. Prices are already rising.

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I just ordered from Kentucky Smoked Fish in Louisville. They do their own paddlefish caviar, which apparently has been highly praised. it's supposed to be similar in taste to osetra, which is what we've usually bought.

Also, I love Louisville, since my family is from there, so it's always nice to patronize a "homegrown" merchant.

I will report on the results. Thanks very much for the suggestions and encouragement.

I can appreciate the hometown angle. In the future, do consider Collins, which is a long-standing family business in Chicago and an early pioneer of both American caviars and smoked/flavored caviars. (I had lightly smoked whitefish caviar at Bern's in Tampa described as "Chicago style" on the menu a decade ago.) You can walk right in to their loft space in the West Loop and talk to the owners, who are going to steer you in the right direction. They can also get you other hard-to-find fish eggs (bottarga, shad roe, etc.) on short notice. There is absolutelty no substitute for the level of service and info you get by going there directly.

I had no idea Collins existed until today. This will improve my quality of life.

I found their website here:

http://www.collinscaviar.com/index.html

Thanks Jeff & Cathy.

Best,
EC

SteveZ wrote:Does anyone have any insight on this. Is it simply an Urban Legand?

I never heard of a relationship between Chernobyl and Caviar. I saw after Chernobyl, Geiger counters in the markets where they tested produce coming from the Ukraine, especially mushrooms, for years thereafter. You could bring your foods over and have it waved before heading home.

My Dad and I were at Chernobyl after the disaster. When we were walking about the power plant, there was plenty of cables laid on the floor you needed to walk over. These cables were present before the disaster, it wasn't any jury rigging to satisfy a problem after the disaster. So I completely understand your distrust of any safety standards issued from there because safety precautions are very lax.

EC- the paddlefish either is a type of sturgeon, or it is a cousin, im not sure. It grows very big and each one can have many pounds of eggs. Everyone seems to compare paddlefish with osetra, and they are very similar in size and color. I am not an expert on russian caviar, but I have to believe that the reliability of the american product has to be better, considering all the smuggling going on with the imported stuff. For my 40th birthday 2 friends each sent me an ounce of russian beluga and I had some paddlefish to compare. One of the russian ones (from petrussian, which is supposed to be the best) was horrible, the other (from Mckensie ltd.) was fantastic. The good beluga was difinitely a class ahead of the paddlefish. The issue for me is price. I dont want a little bit of fantastic caviar to admire, I want a pile of good stuff to heap on my eggs and bilinis (with creme fraiche and lemon). My gluttony forces me to go with the paddlefish, at 1/4-1/10 the price, and I have never been disappointed.
As for collins caviar, I think that they make a good product, although some of their signature caviars (wasabi) are a little overboard for me, and they are very expensive.
-Will

I got the caviar that i ordered on ebay today and i am very happy. at $120+21 s&h for a pound, it was the cheapest source i have seen. the seller, justcaviar.com, did a very good job with packaging and shipping. The quality seems to be on par with the other american paddlefish caviars that i have had.
-Will

HI,

This is delightful news.

An ounce of caviar is such a trifle, but you can really go to town with a pound. From which screen name did you buy the caviar from?

Thanks!

Regards,

JustCaviar.com eBay store

Hi,

I just went over, the price for paddle fish caviar in a 1 pound container was 'Buy it now' for $175.

I checked current auctions where I found one paddle fish auction at $150 per pound. I checked closed auctions where I found only one completed auction: no bid with cost of $100.

Anyway, I am glad Will got it for $120, I just wonder from whom.

My guess is that the price may be much less next weekend than it is this weekend--sort of like buying a dozen roses the day before Valentine's day.

I read somewhere, but don't remember where, that a company in one of the Scandanavian countries (I don't remember which one) was manufacturing fuax cavier from seaweed and that it may be marketed in American in the Spring. The article said that while the seaweed cavier didn't quite taste like the real thing, it wasn't bad. Did anybody else see this, tell where it can be found, and have an opinion on whether the idea is possible. or good?
Jane

Cathy2 wrote:Anyway, I am glad Will got it for $120, I just wonder from whom.

Perhaps this was will's order?

and jane: caviar assouline (icaviar.com) says they'll have photos of the vegetarian caviar soon. apparently some people call it "faux-luga". You can buy it from them via this link for $7.95 for 3.5oz, plus $25-30 shipping for everything in your order.

-ed

yes, that was my order. Havent checked in a few days, but justcaviar.com seemed to have several auctions per day of the paddlefish. Sometimes they just call it black american caviar, which is what i bid on, but the picture says paddlefish, and that is what it is. the minimum bids for the pounds is 120, and i dont know if i just got lucky, but that is what i got it for. the minimum bid for a 2 pounder was 140, but my 200 top bid was outbid. The buy it now price is higher than the minimum, but you could probably email the guy and he might just sell you some cheaper, i dont know.
-Will

i know i'm late, but i thought i'd throw in for collins caviar. excellent product, ask tru as well, it's on their caviar staircase. i've been using it professionally for 20 years. pretty much since they started up. they just got hooked up with a national distributer, philips, so it should become more readily available. the hakleback is wonderful. excellent berries, crisp and not to saline. i enjoy the infused flavors as well. if you can't find it in the above mentioned stores, they're right on w jefferson.

If you enjoy caviar, you really should read the book Caviar. Well worth the time and effort. I read it a few months ago.

A few interesting facts are that there are about 27 different species of sturgeon (a few still left in the U.S.) and at one time the U.S. produced from its waters more (and presumably better quality) sturgeon roe than the Caspian, to the point that it drove several species to endangered status or extinction. The high price for caviar was justified by the nouveau riche Russians importing their local food to Venice. With modern technology for processing and preservation (refrigeration), given adequate suppy (non-threatened species), prices for sturgeon roe should not be all that expensive. Its the reputation of Caspian caviar that contiues to drive prices.

Just my personal opinion after reading the book, but I think Collins is selling more sizzle than steak...American caviar can be obtained for considerably less money from other sources and should not be influenced by Caspian prices.

Finally, some of the best management practices (in addition to farms in California) seems to be coming from Iran.

pd

The Kentucky Spoonfish caviar we had was quite good - the main difference between it and Caspian Sea caviar (we've had both Iranian and Russian) was the grains did not "pop" nearly as much. The flavor was good, maybe a little less salty and fishy, but the mildness would probably appeal to someone new to the caviar thing.

We got only 2 ounces and were wishing for more!

I made homemade blinis, but honestly they were a bit too strong in their flavor for the domestic caviar, so we just ate the caviar with crackers and licked the tin clean.

As long as we were ordering and paying the $25 for cold shipping, I added a pound of nova-style smoked salmon. Excellent as well. It was hand sliced, a little thicker than you typically get in the deli, and with a good but not too strong flavor.

Kentucky Smoked Fish
http://www.kysmokedfish.com/
888-990-8990
shuckmans@kysmokedfish.com

Hi,

Is it possible the Caspian eggs had the firmer pop due to the high salt content? Maybe the 'skin' of the egg was slighty dried out due to salt dehydrating it?

I have a friend Lilya who grew up in the southern republics of the Soviet Union. She was quite accustomed to getting fresh caviar, so everything available to her in Moscow was already not up to her standards. She once showed me a trick with red Salmon caviar. When you open the can, often the eggs look sunken and a bit sticky. She would carefully transfer the entire contents of the can into a glass jar. She would fill the jar water and shake the eggs around to rehydrate and desalt them. Often it would take several changes of water to fully hydrate them and remove the excessive saltiness. She would then lightly salt the eggs to taste and eat them.

Sometime after the USSR evaporated from the map, I was visiting Lilya whose friends had just returned from the Caspian Sea. She had in her possession a quart jar of sturgeon caviar. She pulled out the usual fussy "You must be hungry" routine as an excuse to feed me an open sandwich thickly smeared with Caviar. I immediately recognized I was in one of those few-moments-in-a-lifetime-not-to-be-repeated occasions. If only I had a camera.

rocky29@sbcglobal.net wrote:I read somewhere, but don't remember where, that a company in one of the Scandanavian countries (I don't remember which one) was manufacturing fuax cavier from seaweed and that it may be marketed in American in the Spring. The article said that while the seaweed cavier didn't quite taste like the real thing, it wasn't bad. Did anybody else see this, tell where it can be found, and have an opinion on whether the idea is possible. or good?
Jane

Similarly, there is Soy Caviar, Inc.

Regards,
Erik M.

Wanted to bump this topic, since I think we'll be in the market for some caviar for New Year's Eve.

What are the go-to sources for domestic caviar these days? I think Collins sounds like a great local choice (plus, they also sell blinis, which is a bonus). Are there any brick-and-mortar stores that dependably sell caviar and blinis? And has anyone tried the caviar that Costco sells?

The just caviar guy that I bought from on Ebay a few years ago has upped his prices considerably. My current source for basic domestic paddlefish is http://www.kelleyskatch.com , though I havent ordered from them this year yet. They are a around $13/ounce, which is by far the cheapest I have found for decent stuff. They harvest their own and there is no middleman.

-Will