Pumpkin Pie

Pumpkin Pie

I've mentioned before that in general I don't have much of a sweet tooth, though of course there are a number of sweet dishes which I do love very much. One of my favourites is pumpkin pie and in particular in the style made by my mother and her family. The general recipe we use differs little from the standard ones except in two points: 1) we only use about 2/3 of the sugar typically called for; 2) we only use cinnamon and forego the use of cloves, ginger and/or allspice, which one encounters in many versions. The result is obviously less sweet but also -- and most crucially -- with a more prominent flavour of pumpkin. Of course, this version is not better than any other but it is the one that I prefer. Other, more spicy and sweeter pies I've tasted have also been to my liking but this version is my favourite, for sentimental reasons, to be sure, but also on account of the reduced sweetness and more of a pumpkin-custard character.

Amata produced a very tasty pumpkin pie this year (as always) following this recipe for the filling from my folks. The crust she made was of a pâte brisée sucrée.



Antonius

For those interested in a recipe for a very pumpkin-y pumpkin pie, Rose Levy Berenbaum's recipe from her Pie and Pastry Bible cookbook is a favorite of mine. It features only cinnamon (which I cut almost in half so that it is a mere highlight, not a distinct flavor), and also a bit of ginger. A thin layer between the crust and the filling (crushed gingersnaps mixed w/pecans) adds another touch of ginger, but it is not overpowering at all. This extra layer eliminates the need to pre-bake the crust, which never gets soggy thanks to the gingersnap/pecan barrier. I don't find this recipe to be too sweet, and it definitely has a very pumpkin-first flavor.

Hi S. M.,

that sounds like a nice recipe and worth checking out. Actually, I don't pre-bake the crust on the version pictured above. The initial baking at 425 for 15 minutes (lowered to 350 for another 45 minutes) seems to seal the crust before the filling can make it soggy.

What do you other pie bakers do, do you use a prebaked crust for pumpkin pie?

Amata

p.s. Antonius, thanks for the nice photo and the food styling!

I looked at Birnbaum's recipe, having bought the book on Evil Ronnie's recommendation, but didn't have the ginger snaps and pecans to experiment with. Maybe for Christmas, because the idea is intriguing. I love pumpkin as a flavor, maybe the distinctive American flavor, unlike anything else used in pies today, a savory vegetable* that we don't have to tart up with a ton of sweetening or candied pecans or whatever and yet makes a perfectly satisfying, sweet-leaning dessert.

I use a recipe from Camille Glenn's Heritage of Southern Cooking which uses all the traditional spices (except mace) but doesn't seem to overwhelm the pumpkin flavor. It also adds brandy, which I never really object to...

I do prebake the shell, usually unhappily because even with weights it puffs up and I have to beat it down, puncture the blisters and then fill in the holes, etc. Maybe what Amata suggests, starting the bake high on a low rack, would solve that problem.

* Technically a fruit, I think, but obviously more vegetable-like by taste and texture.

Hi,

FYI - the Libby's Pumpkin in the can is not pumpkin, rather it is Hubbard squash according to LAZ. Hubbard Squash are really quite large, so I can understand their use simply by economy of scale.

While pumpkin is just one squash used, one can also substitute butternut, acorn or whatever your personal taste or regional growing preferences dictate.

Whenever I make sweet potato pie, it is often mistaken for pumpkin visually as well as casual tasting.

Regards,

Cathy 2 wrote:

FYI - the Libby's Pumpkin in the can is not pumpkin, rather it is Hubbard squash according to LAZ. Hubbard Squash are really quite large, so I can understand their use simply by economy of scale.

This stuck in my mind until I remembered that I had read an article in the Tribune magazine this past year about the fact that most canned commercial pumpkin ("Libby's") comes from a central Illinois location (4,000 acres worth) and that they used a pumpkin that differed from the usual Jack o'Lantern type that we carve up at Halloween.

I searched online for more information about Libby's and found that they use a type of pumpkin called a Dickinson, and they had further refined a strain of this type for their use. So perhaps Hubbard squash are not used afterall?

Anyone have any further information to offer on this mystery?

You cannot label something as pumpkin if it is hubbard squash. FDA would make them recall the product. If it were squash instead of pumpkin it would have to be noted on the label.

That said I guess there are many varieties of pumpkin and different varieties may be used in the canning depending on what is available.
Paulette

The genetic history of the pumpkin is so intertwined with the squash and the gourd that it's sometimes difficult to tell them apart. Generally speaking a pumpkin is something you carve, a squash is something you cook and a gourd is something you look at. Though it's really not that simple, it's also not that difficult. The answer is in the stem.

Pumpkins and squashes and gourds all belong to the same genetic family - Cucurbita. Within that family are several species or subgroups - Cucurbita pepo, Cucurbita maxima and Cucurbita moschata.

The pepo species is usually recognized as the true pumpkin. Varieties within this group have bright orange skin and hard, woody, distinctly furrowed stems. But the group also includes gourds, vegetable marrow, Pattypan summer squash, scallop summer squash, gray and black zucchini and summer crookneck squash.

The maxima species also contains varieties that produce pumpkin-like fruit but the skin is usually more yellow than orange and the stems are soft and spongy or corky, without ridges and without an enlargement next to the fruit. They don't really make good handles for jack-o'-lanterns. Varieties such as Atlantic Giant, Big Max and Show King are often listed as pumpkins but are more properly called pumpkin-squash or squash- type pumpkins. Other members of the maxima group are Hubbard squashes, banana squashes, buttercup squashes and turban squashes - in short, most autumn and winter squash.

Finally, there's the moschata species. Varieties in this group are usually long and oblong instead of round and have tan rather than orange skin. The stems are deeply ridged and enlarged next to the fruit. Ironically, a member of this group is used for much of the canned pumpkin sold in this country. Other non-pumpkin members include the squash-like cushaw, winter crookneck squash and butternut squash.

(from http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plan ... mpkin.html)

So what's a squash and what's a pumpkin is certainly open for discussion; it's possible the canned pumpkin is not typical jack o' lantern stuff.

It's true that the Jack O'Lantern pumpkin is different than the pie pumpkin.
My wife has made pumpkin pie using both canned pumpkin and actual pie pumpkins from scratch. Pie pumpkins are widely available this time of year.

By the way, the town in Illinois that is the center of canned pumpkin production is Morton, IL and as one would suspect they have an annual Pumpkin festival and they bill themselves as the pumpkin capital of the world.

Jesper

Commenting off the cuff and unaware I was on the record, apparently I mispoke, mixing up my squashes. Libby's Dickinson "pumpkins" are a closer cousin to butternut squash than to hubbard. As nr706's research shows, they are, however, also a different species than the common jack o'lantern type or pie pumpkins.


Cucurbita moschata 'Dickinson'


C. moschata 'Avalon Butternut'


C. maxima 'Golden Hubbard'


C pepo 'Sugar Pie'

Those are some mighty fine looking cucurbitas, LAZ! I have a butternut squash in my kitchen right now that I think I will roast up as an accompaniment to my stuffed cornish hen tonight. Thanks for the inspiration.

HI,

I bought a couple of 'sugar pie' pumpkins on my last visit to the farms. I didn't buy any Libby's pumpkin to obligate myself to using the sugar pie pumpkins. In the last minute pressures of preparing dinner, it is far easier to grab the can. I simply eliminated any temptation.

Last night around 9 PM, I investigated making fresh pumpkin pie. One issue I quickly learned was the higher moisture content in fresh pumpkin over canned. Some people compensated this in their recipes, while others allow the pumpkin puree to drain.

I sliced and deseeded two sugar pie pumpkins, then arrange them on a rack in a dutch oven to steam until tender. Once finished, I scooped out the pulp into my mixing bowl to beat it like mashed potatoes. I lined a collander with a paper towel and poured in the mashed pulp to drain overnight. In the morning, I used a food processor to refine the puree.

Since I was interested in my family's response to fresh pumpkin over Libby's, I used the classic recipe from their label. I made a double-pie recipe, I noticed the pulp with the addition of the eggs and spices was already near the consistency I expect once I have added heavy cream (instead of evaporated milk). Instead of three cups cream, I added only one cup. To go any further, I felt I was risking the eggs ability to create a custard because the mixture was already rather thin. In retrospect, part of this issue was the moisture content of the pumpkin. The other issue may have been related to how I measured the pumpkin. Is a 15 or 30 ounce can of Libby's measured by weight or volume? I measured volume, though I now think it was weight.

The resulting two pies looked a bit more golden orange than their Libby's canned counterpart. The flavor was more pumpkin, which may be related to my measuring method. My niece who predicted she would likely not like it, ate the pumpkin pie without any negative comments.

If my unit of measure was wrong, which it likely is, I may just repeat the error in the future. Less cream, more pumpkin flavor, improved color and no compromise on the flavor.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Regards,

I actually went with the Cooks Illustrated Pumpkin Pie recipe, which Bittman blogged about but I didn't use the Libby's can'o'punkin. Instead, I too had some sugar pie pumpkins and roasted them for the pie.

The recipe called for a 15 ounce can, but I looked at the cans in the store first because I had the same questions as you Cathy2. They are listed by weight (the double can showing something about pounds and ounces), not fl. oz, so I took it as a weight measurement. I measured out 17 ounces of roasted pumpkin because it seemed on the wet side.

In the CI recipe, you cook the pumpkin before making the pie to drive off the moisture, something I knew I'd definitely need to do before baking. Plus, the recipe states the spices bloom, and since it calls for candied yams in addition to the pumpkin, the cooking made them softer and easier to mash. The cooking did seem like an extra step at first, but I was making the crust from scratch anyway, so while it was pre-baking I didn't mind the cooking.

The pie was a big hit, everyone liked the smooth filling (you strain through fine-mesh per the recipe), and the pumpkin flavor was more pronounced than any of us remember, even with the yams. But we all agreed that the spices in the CI recipe were on the conservative side. Next time I'll use more cinnamon, more ginger, and add some clove which is oddly absent from the recipe.

A few years ago i put Libbey's canned pumpkin up against pumpkin puree I made my self from pie pumpkins. A blind tasting revealed no taste difference, only textural because I could not get the pumpkin as fine as Libbey's so there were some strings in it. Other than that, no difference and it has been Libbey's ever since for me.
I like a mild pumpkin pie and so I use Ceylon Cinnamon instead of the more spicy Cassia Cinnamon with a little Penzy's ginger and just a touch of clove. It tunrs out more like a squash pie than what has become the traditional over spiced pumpkin pie.-Dick

budrichard wrote: A blind tasting revealed no taste difference, only textural because I could not get the pumpkin as fine as Libbey's so there were some strings in it. Other than that, no difference and it has been Libbey's ever since for me.

You're the fourth person I've heard do this, with the same results. I personally have never done a side-by-side comparison, but I've had three others swear to me that they've given up on roasting and pureeing their own pumpkin, since they really can't tell the difference between completely-from-scratch pie, and that using Libby's.

Anyhow, when I made Thanksgiving dinner for the expats in Hungary, I would use the local butternut squash (as I never had the foresight to bring Libby's from home, and pumpkin puree was otherwise unavailable there). For the puree, after roasting, I would put the pumpkin flesh (in batches) into a muslin cloth, and twist and squeeze the hell out of it to drive off as much moisture as possible. I found that with this method, I could dry the pulp enough to continue standard pumpkin pie recipes without compensating for the liquid content.

Sparky opted for other pies, so I didn't do a kabocha pie as I'd intended, but I wonder how that would stack up against Libby's: it doesn't have the brightness of an acorn squash (I've done an acorn squash pie, they're good but ever so slightly different) it seems extra-pumpkiny and it's very fine-textured and dry; I think it would be an ideal option. I guess it will have to wait until next year...

I also made a from scratch pumpkin pie this year. It's the third time I have done it, and my family really likes it. I got the pumpkin mid-October at our local farmer's market from Hansel's Farm in Beecher, an organic farm. I had enough for nearly three pies. Instead of steaming the pumpkin, my cousin suggested we just bake it until tender in the oven. I did that the night before, scooped out the pulp from the flesh and pureed it in a blender before using it. We did need to add a little water to puree the pulp, it was quite dense.

The pies were a big hit. I used the Trader Joe's pie crusts because I was running out of time. I will definitely use them again.

Suzy

I make from scratch pumpkin pie every year and have learned a couple of tricks. First I halve and seed the pumpkin then steam it. Once cooked and cooled, it is easy to peel and then puree. I use a blender. If it's too wet, I pour it into a fine mesh sieve and let the excess moisture drain. If it seems stringy. I use an immersion blender to make it smooth. The pureed pulp freezes quite well and is then as easily accessable as canned.

I prefer to buy local organic pumpkins and like doing this from scratch. And I like having seeds to toast.

I prepared my own pumpkin puree by baking sugar pumpkins this year. My two small pumpkins yielded 6 cups of pumpkin puree! It was quite dry, but I did not find it to be stringy. The pumpkin seeds were very thin, and did not have a lot of meat in them.

I also tried Smitten Kitchen's all butter crust. This was my first year prebaking the crust, so I used CI's instructions. The crust was crunchy - is this normal? Or was this more due to the all butter crust? Do you prebake your crust for pumpkin pie?

Making pie crust is decidely simple. Any all purpose flour will do with a little butter and Crisco and a food processor and about two minutes later its pie crust. For the king of pie crust, leaf lard is truly the way to go!-Dick

I just received a pie pumpkin from Triple A Farms and can't wait to make my first fresh pie this weekend. I was thinking of trying this recipe: http://www.pickyourown.org/pumpkinpie.php
but the part about the evaporated milk confuses me (they ask for 1.5 cans, 12 ounces each). If anyone has a recipe they'd like to share, please do! I'll post my results, too.

Has anyone tried pressure cooking pumpkin and then using the puree for pie? Does this yield good results? From what I have been reading, the pressure cooked pumpkin ends up retaining more moisture than a baked pumpkin.

Hi,

I made fresh pumpkin pie for Thanksgiving last year. One of the extra steps involved is draining the pumpkin of extra moisture. No matter how you cook it, you will need to drain. I happened to bake mine simply because I had other things going in the oven.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

I made fresh pumpkin pie for Thanksgiving last year. One of the extra steps involved is draining the pumpkin of extra moisture. No matter how you cook it, you will need to drain. I happened to bake mine simply because I had other things going in the oven.

Regards,

I prepared fresh pumpkin last year for the first time using 2 pie pumpkins. After I baked them, I pureed them in the food processor and had to ADD water.

Pucca,

You added water simply to get it to blend, right? Did you then drain it or proceeded to the recipe? Once you add eggs and cream, a lot of moisture is added back.

Every recipe I consulted last year made a big deal out of draining. I was very thankful I read up on Wednesday morning, instead of Thanksgiving Day. Otherwise pumpkin pie might have dropped out of the menu.

Regards,

No I did not drain it and proceeded w/the recipe. After I pureed it, it looked just like the canned stuff.

Every time I make pumpkin pie, I always end up with too much filling! Even if I drained it, wouldn't it just leave behind the solids or the pulp?

I've made a lot of pumpkin pies from real pumpkins and I think the draining/not draining issue is directly related to the kind of pumpkin one starts with. Small sugar pumpkins are much less likely to need draining while larger Jack-O_lantern types nearly always need draining. I, too, have needed to add water to get the pumpkin to puree if I've used sugar pumpkins.

Diannie wrote:I've made a lot of pumpkin pies from real pumpkins and I think the draining/not draining issue is directly related to the kind of pumpkin one starts with. Small sugar pumpkins are much less likely to need draining while larger Jack-O_lantern types nearly always need draining. I, too, have needed to add water to get the pumpkin to puree if I've used sugar pumpkins.

Do you normally steam, bake, or pressure cook your pumpkins?

Also, is there much difference in flavor between sugar pumpkin and carving pumpkin?

I steam the pumpkins. First I halve and de-seed them. Then cut into cubes and steam. Once they cool a little, I pare the skin which comes off pretty easily after they're cooked. Then I toss the cubes into a blender and puree.

I think the sugar pumpkins have a pretty good flavor while the larger ones are fairly insipid and stringy. In fairness, large pumpkins today aren't grown for eating but rather for carving and decoration. I don't see any point in trying to eat them.

shorty wrote:Also, is there much difference in flavor between sugar pumpkin and carving pumpkin?

Good Lord above, there are huge differences. One is stringy and watery and sometimes bitter, while the other is smooth and sweet.