How to achieve Chinese-restaurant-textured beef at home?

One of my long-standing culinary quests has been to duplicate that slightly-rubbery, toothsome-yet-tender texture of beef that is served in countless Chinese restaurants. My standard of chew-chew-beef is the dry-fried beef chow fun (AKA "gone chow gnuw haw", or however else you care to attempt the phonetic spelling of Cantonese). While the rest of my recipe comes pretty close to restaurant fare, the beef is lacking.

So far, I've failed. I hereby simultaneously present my failed attempts and plead for any insight.

Basic prep is to slice a 1.5 lb piece of flank steak with grain into 3" wide planks, then diagonally across grain into 3/8" thickness, resulting in slices that are roughly 1" x 3/8" x 4" (H x W x L). Marinade consists of light soy sauce, minced/crushed garlic, corn starch, xiaoxing wine. After sitting 15min, beef is stir-fried in a rocket-hot cast iron pan.


Attempt #1: 1 Tbsp Adolph's Meat Tenderizer (No MSG!) sprinkled over meat, then mixed and marinated for 15min.

Results: The tenderizing agent (papaicin) makes quick work of the connective tissue, separating individual hunks of meat from the slice. Not pretty, but tender!



Attempt #2: 1 Tbsp Baking soda, sprinkled, mixed and marinated as in #1.

Results: Decent texture, but metallic tasting, and the end product tasting strongly of carbon.



Attempt #3: 1 Tbsp each of Adolph's and baking soda.

Results: fall-apart and metallic. Worst of both worlds.



Help!
-sherman

An old employee of mine who used to own a cantonese restaurant once told me his secret.

First he used tenderloin as his cut of beef. This surprised me, but he insisted that with the liberal use of vegetables, and thin slicing the final dish would not look as if it were light on meat.

He also used the papaya powder (papacin) in his marinade, but in quantities much less than called for. The assumtion here being the added surface area due to the slicing. Finally, he wouldn't add the cornstarch until the very end of his marinade and quickly move the meat to the wok on high heat. I've tried this method many times with good results.

Flip

Flip,

Tenderloin's an interesting choice. My only concern with it is that it may be more prone to drying out, but definitely worth a shot.

Any ideas on the tenderizer-to-meat ratio?

Thanks,
-sherman

Sherman wrote:Flip,

Tenderloin's an interesting choice. My only concern with it is that it may be more prone to drying out, but definitely worth a shot.

Any ideas on the tenderizer-to-meat ratio?

Thanks,
-sherman

If you cook it quickly there should not be a problem with drying out. I usually slice the meat to about 1/8 - 1/4" thick by slightly freezing the meat first. Also I generally buy whole tenderloins from Costco and use the scraps in this manner.

On the subject of tenderizer, IIRC the instructions say to sprinkle across the entire surface of the meat. I would guess that I've used about 1/4 - 1/2 tsp for a pound of sliced meat. btw cut that thin a pound takes up a lot of room and I cook it in batches. The papacin works very quickly on the meat and I only marinate for a few minutes.

Flip

I believe you may be able to acheive your goal with flank steak by using the technique of first "passing " the sliced beef thru moderately hot (about 200-250 degree) oil (peanut preferred) then letting it drain before stir frying. Also, when stir frying beef remember not to start stirring too quickly. You need to let the beef sit quietly against the hot pan (how long depends on how hot) in order to get a proper sear on the surface. This has worked for me. Also works with chicken.

interesting! I have never found such a descript outline and analysis of attaining "chinese textured beef."

For my pepper steak, broccoli beef, or any stir frys with beef or chicken for that matter, my "marinade" sits for up to 10 minutes and consists of:

cornstarch
soy sauce (dark and/or lite)
rice wine
minced garlic

depending on the dish, I'll add the following for more depth:
a touch of sesame oil
fish sauce
minced ginger

the result is very much like the texture and taste of typical chinese dishes

kuhdo wrote:I believe you may be able to acheive your goal with flank steak by using the technique of first "passing " the sliced beef thru moderately hot (about 200-250 degree) oil (peanut preferred) then letting it drain before stir frying.

Kuhdo,

I'd agree, this is the key to the textural element Sherman is seeking, commonly referred to as Velveting. There's a discussion of the technique on LTHForum which may be found here

Enjoy,
Gary

Yes, I was thinking of Velveting when I first read the inquiry, but I know it as something different:

Marinate the meat in whatever base you like (here, for 1 lb of meat it calls for 1/4 cup soy sauce, 1/4 cup dry sherry, and 1/2 cup of water).

Mix together 2 tbsps sesame oil, 1 tbs cornstarch, 1 tbsp flour til smooth. Drain the meat and mix with the paste until evenly coated. (It will look like you won't have enough paste to coat all the meat, but keep stirring, stirring, stirring, and you will.)

Stir fry in small batches.

Wow. Nice to see someone else likes China Moon chili oil. I always have a batch of this on hand.It's been my standard chili oil for years and is almost always out on the counter in my kitchen. Bur back to the beef.... I have found that the marinade used has more effect on the taste than the texture of the beef. The texture is primarily determined by the technique described above (which I learned as "passing through"). The key is submerging the marinated and lightly corn starched meat entirely in a generous quantity of not too hot oil (at least 1-2 cups) just until it changes color before stir frying. Many chinese kitchens wil have a seperate wok for this 'oil blanching" going at all times. This does complicate the cooking process considerably and many cookbooks leave out this step in dishes to be made at home as it is considered primarily a restaurant or banquet technique...once you try this however I think you will see that this is one reason stir fry dishes taste different in restaurants than at home.

Even with this technique I'm not sure Sherman will be fully satisfied with the results as I fear his problem may have deeper roots. The dish he refers to (also a favorite of mine) when made well can be the absolute epitome of 'wok hay' (this is the smoky/slightly charry essence of a spectacularly good stir fry). Even most restaurants do not always get this right which is why versions of this simple dish can vary so much from place to place (and even in the same place from day to day). I have found the required effect to be very difficult to acheive at home. Most residential ranges simply cannot put out enough heat to replicate the effect of the 100,000 btu wok burners used in most commercial Chinese kitchens. In most dishes this isn't really too much of a problem and perfectly acceptable results can be attained with some care (tho the resulting dish will often be a little different than the restaurant version). With the dish in question however I bet it's this 'wok hay' Sherman is seeking and this may prove elusive (a high power range will help). Again I would also stress the importance of letting the meat sear for awhile before starting to sir fry inorder to try to get this effect.The rice noodles should also be done this way in order to get a crisp/blistered surface charactaristic of the best restaurant versions. By the way, China Moon chili oil especially the part with the crispy black beans and garlic at the bottom of the jar is particularly good with this dish. To me, s.e. asain style hot sauces don't work with this. Seven Treasures can make a good version of this dish and also has a great in house made hot sauce if you don't have your own China Moon batch on hand. Best of luck....

kuhdo:
You're dead on with the "wok hay" description. Being that my range is more along the residentail end of BTU delivery, I make do with the biggest burner that I've got (12000 BTU) and a 14" cast iron skillet that I let preheat for as long as the smoke alarm will allow.

A more frugal alternative to buying an outdoor propane burner/turkey fryer: I've found that my chimney charcoal starter and about a quart of lump hardwood stands in rather acceptably. Then again, I didn't claim that it was the sturdiest of solutions...

G Wiv:
As seems to be the norm on this board, your advice is spot-on. While it can be a slight pain in the butt, the velveting process does deliver a much more reasonable facsimile of texture that I've been hunting for.

All told, the beef cooks up nicely either way. Thanks for the suggestions and info!

-sherman

Sherman wrote:One of my long-standing culinary quests has been to duplicate that slightly-rubbery, toothsome-yet-tender texture of beef that is served in countless Chinese restaurants.

Sherman, It's not so much the ingredients. That you can create to taste with practice. It's more the technique that I think you're looking for.

1.) Flank Steak is good choice with what you're trying to accomplish.

2.) Boil the Steak first until tender. (I don't give an exact time because it varies with thickness.) Start checking the meat after about 25min.

3.) When Flank is tender, remove from water, place in pan and fry with what ever marinade and veggies you choose.

Technique is the hard part, seasoning is the easy part. LEARN your technique first... And of course have fun doing it. Great thing about Flank Steak is that it's so darn cheap. You can keep practicing and it won't cost you an arm and a leg.

~GS

Greasy Spoon wrote:

Sherman wrote:One of my long-standing culinary quests has been to duplicate that slightly-rubbery, toothsome-yet-tender texture of beef that is served in countless Chinese restaurants.

Sherman, It's not so much the ingredients. That you can create to taste with practice. It's more the technique that I think you're looking for.

1.) Flank Steak is good choice with what you're trying to accomplish.

2.) Boil the Steak first until tender. (I don't give an exact time because it varies with thickness.) Start checking the meat after about 25min.
3.) When Flank is tender, remove from water, place in pan and fry with what ever marinade and veggies you choose.

Technique is the hard part, seasoning is the easy part. LEARN your technique first... And of course have fun doing it. Great thing about Flank Steak is that it's so darn cheap. You can keep practicing and it won't cost you an arm and a leg.

~GS

Surely this is a cruel joke.

After trying some of the methods listed here in the past, I finally broke down and bought an Eastman Big Kahuna wok burner. I am very satisfied with the results, especially the texture and wok hay that, to my palate, is simply not achievable with a residential range, even with the smoke detectors disabled and the vent hood on full auto.

The 55,000 btus really do make all the difference.

This wok burner also has an adjustable stand and a grate that inverts for flat-bottomed pans - think crab, crawfish or lobster boil, Prudhomme's blackened fish or deep-fried turkey.

The tripod base of the Eastman (and others, I assume) is rock steady, not the flimsy construction of the turkey fryers I've seen available. The Eastman is available here with free shipping:

Eastman

mchodera wrote:After trying some of the methods listed here in the past, I finally broke down and bought an Eastman Big Kahuna wok burner. I am very satisfied with the results, especially the texture and wok hay that, to my palate, is simply not achievable with a residential range, even with the smoke detectors disabled and the vent hood on full auto.

The 55,000 btus really do make all the difference.

This wok burner also has an adjustable stand and a grate that inverts for flat-bottomed pans - think crab, crawfish or lobster boil, Prudhomme's blackened fish or deep-fried turkey.

The tripod base of the Eastman (and others, I assume) is rock steady, not the flimsy construction of the turkey fryers I've seen available. The Eastman is available here with free shipping:

Eastman

This looks great. Thanks for the link.

kuhdo wrote:

Greasy Spoon wrote:

Sherman wrote:One of my long-standing culinary quests has been to duplicate that slightly-rubbery, toothsome-yet-tender texture of beef that is served in countless Chinese restaurants.

Sherman, It's not so much the ingredients. That you can create to taste with practice. It's more the technique that I think you're looking for.

1.) Flank Steak is good choice with what you're trying to accomplish.

2.) Boil the Steak first until tender. (I don't give an exact time because it varies with thickness.) Start checking the meat after about 25min.
3.) When Flank is tender, remove from water, place in pan and fry with what ever marinade and veggies you choose.

Technique is the hard part, seasoning is the easy part. LEARN your technique first... And of course have fun doing it. Great thing about Flank Steak is that it's so darn cheap. You can keep practicing and it won't cost you an arm and a leg.

~GS

Surely this is a cruel joke.

I don't think so. Flank steak is commonly braised or boiled in certain recipes to achieve a specific texture.

Best,
Michael

eatchicago wrote:

kuhdo wrote:

Greasy Spoon wrote:

Sherman wrote:One of my long-standing culinary quests has been to duplicate that slightly-rubbery, toothsome-yet-tender texture of beef that is served in countless Chinese restaurants.

Sherman, It's not so much the ingredients. That you can create to taste with practice. It's more the technique that I think you're looking for.

1.) Flank Steak is good choice with what you're trying to accomplish.

2.) Boil the Steak first until tender. (I don't give an exact time because it varies with thickness.) Start checking the meat after about 25min.
3.) When Flank is tender, remove from water, place in pan and fry with what ever marinade and veggies you choose.

Technique is the hard part, seasoning is the easy part. LEARN your technique first... And of course have fun doing it. Great thing about Flank Steak is that it's so darn cheap. You can keep practicing and it won't cost you an arm and a leg.

~GS

Surely this is a cruel joke.

I don't think so. Flank steak is commonly braised or boiled in certain recipes to achieve a specific texture.

Best,
Michael

Not before stir frying (and only rarely afterwards) ...and never in the dish under discussion. The texture would be entirely wrong.

When I am looking for a very hot pan, and frustrated by residential gas, I sometimes will substitute for a wok a cast iron pan heated in a hot oven then transferred to high flame on the stovetop.

For other parts of a dish, like vegetables, I would use a wok, but the cast iron helps with the meat.

Annieb: I can see how this might work nicely, but is the tendency of cast iron to retain heat (and not cool down quickly when removed from the burner) an issue? I've seen cast iron woks in the stores but have always shied away from them because of this concern.

kuhdo wrote:Annieb: I can see how this might work nicely, but is the tendency of cast iron to retain heat (and not cool down quickly when removed from the burner) an issue? I've seen cast iron woks in the stores but have always shied away from them because of this concern.

Khudo,

Why do you see this as a negative? It seems like a good thing to me, but I haven't done that much Chinese cooking.

kuhdo:

That's why I use a wok for other parts of the dish. The cast iron is for the meat, and then shoved to the back of the stove. I have a large, like 15-16 inch, cast iron skillet, that I use for this, gives you lots of room to spread the meat out.

Stevez--part of the wok principle is to have zones of heat, higher up on the pan is cooler. Also, to be able to change cooking heats rapidly. Cast iron doesn't work for that, for that my carbon steel wok is the ticket.

Stevez:

The problem is that with the relatively thin slices used for stir frying, there is a thin line indeed between well seared (but still pink and juicy inside) and totally overcooked. Having a wok of carbon steel which cools off quickly when moved off the burner helps control the cooking process and avoid this issue. As Annieb points out, altitude is also key, with higher up on the side of the wok being cooler. Knowing how to move things around while stir frying to get everything cooked properly is really the hallmark of a great stir fry chef. When working with really high temperatures like in restaurant kitchens, the margin for error can be vanishingly thin. The best stir fry chefs are true artists with skills that take years to hone and are amazing to watch.