ronnie_suburban wrote:

teatpuller wrote:Mistakes are not necessarily mistreatment, obviously. A pleasant disposition can make up for a lot of mistakes.

Well, I'm not so sure it's obvious. In the one of original posts, which spurred this thread, I think the line between errors and mistreatment is subjective and blurry, to say the least. I suppose it comes down to perception but one diner's mistreatment is another's regrettable (and easily forgettable/forgivable) mistake.

=R=

I don't see the blurriness it in that issue. Assuming the facts as stated were true, the customer was unhappy with something and the problem was not graciously handled. Poor service in my book.

teatpuller wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

teatpuller wrote:Mistakes are not necessarily mistreatment, obviously. A pleasant disposition can make up for a lot of mistakes.

Well, I'm not so sure it's obvious. In the one of original posts, which spurred this thread, I think the line between errors and mistreatment is subjective and blurry, to say the least. I suppose it comes down to perception but one diner's mistreatment is another's regrettable (and easily forgettable/forgivable) mistake.

=R=

I don't see the blurriness it in that issue. Assuming the facts as stated were true, the customer was unhappy with something and the problem was not graciously handled. Poor service in my book.

Not if it was a language barrier issue. That's as blurry as it gets.

But the fact that you and I disagree proves my point about the incident being subjective. It would have never even occurred to me to post about such an incident, especially after the countless great experiences I've had a TAC (same was true for the OP, btw). I would have realized that nobody on premesis at the time of our meal was able to deal with such an issue -- this would have been especially obvious to me if I were a regular. I would have simply chalked it up as a blip and used the opportunity to try something else on the menu.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

I don't see the blurriness it in that issue. Assuming the facts as stated were true, the customer was unhappy with something and the problem was not graciously handled. Poor service in my book.

Not if it was a language barrier issue. That's as blurry as it gets.

But the fact that you and I disagree proves my point about the incident being subjective. It would have never even occurred to me to post about such an incident, especially after the countless great experiences I've had a TAC (same was true for the OP, btw). I would have realized that nobody on premesis at the time of our meal was able to deal with such an issue -- this would have been especially obvious to me if I were a regular. I would have simply chalked it up as a blip and used the opportunity to try something else on the menu.

=R=

I had not previously read that thread as the Patty's one made my head hurt. On second reading, it appears that the server did not speak English. A problem indeed, but probably not malicious. They get a second chance.

ronnie_suburban wrote:I would have simply chalked it up as a blip and used the opportunity to try something else on the menu.

Not sure if a language barrier issue would even register as a blip, especially at a place, such as TAC, where I have had any number of terrific meals.

Far as being served a dish I did not order, I could not count the number of times I have pointed at other peoples tables or passing plates saying "please bring me one of those" I would simply view it as an opportunity to try something new.

Little tempest, big teapot.

Enjoy,
Gary

At TAC, the best solution for the risk that a party of 8 might not get one of the dishes they ordered is to order 9 dishes. Or 10. Or 16.

Hi,

Whenever I went to TAC, we always shared the entrees family style. IF a dish went missing, it was only important once we got the bill. One entree per person I have never experienced there. Plus, I recall Erik M advising that Thai dining service isn't a la Russe like we are accustomed. Food departs the kitchen whenever it is ready, which seems random only to us gringos.

Regards,

ronnie_suburban wrote:But do you classify mistreatment and errors similarly? For purposes of this discussion, I don't.

I don't either. I share your view. (Did something I wrote create a different impression?) To err is human.

One form of disrespect has nothing to do with the direct customer-employee interaction. When management has set up a fekoktah system (or has failed to take the necessary steps to set up a functional system), so as to create a frustrating experience for the customer, that is disrespect. Such things as long waits for a table despite a reservation, long waits for service because of confusion as to which table belongs to which server, long waits for food or drink because of insufficient staffing in the bar and/or kitchen, and inadequate training of service personnel, are all signs of management disrespect for the customer. These are more than errors or goofs. And the warmest, most sincerely pleasant response from a waiter or waitress can't correct for them. It's likely not the fault of that person, anyway.

Disrespect, like carelessness, doesn't just happen. It's the result of not having taken the steps necessary to make sure respect happens. When there are so many places around serving good food that have done the necessary work to make sure the customer is well-treated, I can't see going back to one that hasn't. (And let's face it--and be grateful for it--respectful treatment is the norm, not the exception. Of all places I've gone, probably no more than 3% have fallen into the category of "never go back" for me because of shabby or incompetent treatment. But with those 3%, I just don't see any reason for equivocation, and wouldn't even if the food were the best in the universe. It has to do with self-respect.)

riddlemay wrote:(Did something I wrote create a different impression?)

No, not at all. But your comments prompted me to think about that aspect and how different people might interpret the recently-conveyed experiened at TAC differently.

As for the overall issue, I'm honestly not sure where I stand. I don't create any rules for myself in this area, so I guess I'll just continue to take them as they come. I can't think of any place in Chicagoland that I would purposely avoid because of services issues. I had a pretty awful experience at Charlie Trotters last year but the reason I don't think I'd return there has more to do with the experience not being close to worth the money than specifically about the service being shockingly poor (which, I assure you, it was).

The only place I could ever see not returning because of 'service' issues is Bern's Steakhouse in Tampa, FL. And given that I live here and almost never travel to Florida, it's an easy place to avoid. But several years ago, after calling there first to see if wearing shorts was ok, then driving 90 minutes and being turned away from their dining room (because we were wearing shorts), I cannot imagine ever going there. From what I know of the place, I'm likely missing out but it was one of those rare experiences that was so exceptionally annoying and unacceptable, I'll happily live with the loss. I'm sure they're not missing me, either.

=R=

riddlemay wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:But do you classify mistreatment and errors similarly? For purposes of this discussion, I don't.

I don't either. I share your view. (Did something I wrote create a different impression?) To err is human.

One form of disrespect has nothing to do with the direct customer-employee interaction. When management has set up a fekoktah system (or has failed to take the necessary steps to set up a functional system), so as to create a frustrating experience for the customer, that is disrespect. Such things as long waits for a table despite a reservation, long waits for service because of confusion as to which table belongs to which server, long waits for food or drink because of insufficient staffing in the bar and/or kitchen, and inadequate training of service personnel, are all signs of management disrespect for the customer. These are more than errors or goofs. And the warmest, most sincerely pleasant response from a waiter or waitress can't correct for them. It's likely not the fault of that person, anyway.

Disrespect, like carelessness, doesn't just happen. It's the result of not having taken the steps necessary to make sure respect happens. When there are so many places around serving good food that have done the necessary work to make sure the customer is well-treated, I can't see going back to one that hasn't. (And let's face it--and be grateful for it--respectful treatment is the norm, not the exception. Of all places I've gone, probably no more than 3% have fallen into the category of "never go back" for me because of shabby or incompetent treatment. But with those 3%, I just don't see any reason for equivocation, and wouldn't even if the food were the best in the universe. It has to do with self-respect.)

Sometimes long waits for a table despite a reservation are wholly out of our control. In my experience, this is not management disrespect for the customer. Short of clearing the water glasses, and offering to buy them a drink at the bar, and actually asking the departing guests to, er, depart, there is little we can do to make them vacate your table. You don't want to make anyone feel unwelcome. Take it from me, it can be an awkward situation having to ask a guest to leave when they are simply ignorant of the fact that their table is needed. And it can also be awkward placating the guests at the front when we are running behind the book.

Not to mention that if you have a reservation at, say, 8:00, and the reservations BEFORE you were late--early reservations often are late because of traffic, meetings that ended late, or they just plain didn't want to dine that early but that was the only slot we had, so they are just going to show up when they want to--that pushes everyone back. Sometimes the restaurant doesn't turn the way we plan it to. Not being seated on the dot for your reservation is not necessarily a sign of management disrespect for the guest. There are many, many factors at play, and I don't think disrespect is one of them.

Hi,

A friend used to work at The Bakery. They had matchbook covers inscribed, "Dine here. Make love at home." They were given to lingering tables to encourage them to depart. She said they quickly took the hint, laughed and left.

I have a BBQ t-shirt from Kansas City that is a magnet for restaurant employees. It states, "Eat It and Beat It." It seems to be something they'd like to say, but don't dare.

I do pay attention to the surroundings when I am dining. If they have tables empty, I will linger. If there is a line and a need for quick turnover, I leave fairly promptly.

I once sat at a four-top table by myself with the line next to me. I realized I was going to have people watch me eat. Short of engaging in conversation with everyone in line next to me, it wasn't going to be easy to quietly sit alone. I hadn't ordered yet, when I decided I'd rather come back another day and leave my table to whatever group was next. One guy in line actually wanted to know what was wrong and why I was leaving. I've been back since, but I never regretted leaving that evening.

Regards,

Cathy2, I was taken by the fact that you gave up your table. I've been asking myself if I had been in a similar situation, would have I asked anyone in line to join me? That is really putting yourself out there.

razbry wrote:Cathy2, I was taken by the fact that you gave up your table. I've been asking myself if I had been in a similar situation, would have I asked anyone in line to join me? That is really putting yourself out there.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

NeroW wrote:
Sometimes long waits for a table despite a reservation are wholly out of our control. In my experience, this is not management disrespect for the customer. Short of clearing the water glasses, and offering to buy them a drink at the bar, and actually asking the departing guests to, er, depart, there is little we can do to make them vacate your table. You don't want to make anyone feel unwelcome. Take it from me, it can be an awkward situation having to ask a guest to leave when they are simply ignorant of the fact that their table is needed. And it can also be awkward placating the guests at the front when we are running behind the book.

It is possible to do graciously. I was at Spacca Napoli a couple of years ago with a friend who I hadn't seen in quite a while. We were much absorbed in talking, and since we were seated in the second room, away from the front entrance, we weren't really aware of how many people were waiting for a table (it was also later in the evening, so I hope that makes it more understandable). If we had noticed, we would've vacated our table earlier of our own accord. As it was, as we were lingering, someone (can't remember if it was Jonathan or our server) came to our table and explained that there were a lot of people waiting and asked if they could give us a complimentary glass of something before we left. Not the precise wording, of course, but very graciously done. We apologized and left quickly, but didn't feel rushed out of there.

For myself, I understood the need to vacate the table - it was needed, and we weren't really using it. But I do think that the higher up on the scale of "fancy" restaurants you go, the more one expects to be able to sit and linger over that last drink/dessert/whatever.

eli wrote:

razbry wrote:Cathy2, I was taken by the fact that you gave up your table. I've been asking myself if I had been in a similar situation, would have I asked anyone in line to join me? That is really putting yourself out there.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

It was Sticky Rice. It was a Saturday night. I really wanted to order some insects, but with the line pressing against my table, I would have felt like an exhibitionist.

I did think of inviting some waiting to sit with me, but with my luck I get the guest(s) who are easily disgusted. Instead, I had a very nice meal at Spoon Thai less than a mile away that was far less congested. Banana blossom salad may be less sensational, though I just love it.

Regards,

on those occasions when I feel I haven't been treated very well, it's not really a case of dramatic outrage for me to decide not to return. It's more like, "this city has thousands of amazing places to eat, why should I return to one that doesn't appreciate my business?"

that said, amazing or unique food offerings can overcome sub-par service.

Interesting thread.

There is only one place where service was so bad that my wife and I vowed never to return. I can't recall the name, but it was an Asian place in the 680 North Lake Shore Drive building. Our waitress was a bubble-headed young woman (not that much younger than my wife and I). She didn't know the menu, but when we asked about a dish, advised us that it must be good since it contained Jack Daniels. At that point, she was just a harmless idiot. It got worse later when my wife had questions about the sushi. That happens sometimes even in the best places and is no great reflection on the place. The waitress was outraged. She finally agreed to take it back, but then came back to our table to advise us that the chef said it was fine. She should just have said "please never return" because that was our response. We laughed, but did not return.

In contrast, we went to a wine bar on Delaware and had amazingly poor service by a bubble headed waitress, but since she was just sort of rude, we laughed it off and since that time, the correct way to pronounce "Gruet" has been a joke for us.

There is also another place that I won't mention by name that my wife and I also won't return to. We've had some great meals there, but when we were there last, it just had a very sad and depressing vibe to it. Hard to put a finger on the cause, but after dinner my wife and I both commented on it.

DML wrote:There is also another place that I won't mention by name that my wife and I also won't return to. We've had some great meals there, but when we were there last, it just had a very sad and depressing vibe to it. Hard to put a finger on the cause, but after dinner my wife and I both commented on it.

Are they still in business?

Regards,

Yes, the place is still in business and since the food was pretty good on all of our many visits, I hope that it does well in the future. There is a great line from Hemingway. After he discussed places he liked to write, he added "Others were not so good, but maybe I wasn't so good when I was in them." Maybe that's the case with this place.

One thing that will keep me away from a place (not make me swear not to darken its door again, just effectively prevent me from returning) is slow service that ends with the waitstaff disappearing or ignoring my table. The spouse and I are almost never in a rush when we eat out, so we are very tolerant of slow service. But if you've finished your meal, the table is littered with dirty glasses and crumbs, you're more or less talked yourself out, and you can't get get anyone to bring you the check (or even make eye contact!) . . . that's punishment. I remember those places and think, "The service was mediocre, and then they wouldn't let us leave!"

sarcon wrote:on those occasions when I feel I haven't been treated very well, it's not really a case of dramatic outrage for me to decide not to return. It's more like, "this city has thousands of amazing places to eat, why should I return to one that doesn't appreciate my business?"

This sums up how I feel, too. I don't think I've ever left a place in the kind of rage implied by the wording of this thread title, exclamation point and all. I have left places thinking, "Well, with all the restaurants in this city that do know what they're doing, there's certainly no reason to go back to this one that doesn't."

DML wrote:There is also another place that I won't mention by name that my wife and I also won't return to. We've had some great meals there, but when we were there last, it just had a very sad and depressing vibe to it. Hard to put a finger on the cause, but after dinner my wife and I both commented on it.

This should go into "Guess the Restaurant".

There have been plenty of places that have fallen into the "I'll never return!" category, but for the most part they tended to be one-offs: one visit revealed bad food or service or some combination thereof, so no need to go back, and no need to remember it, either. We did, however, almost write off TAC Quick some time ago, after several not-up-to-par meals and poor service (and I am aware of what to expect from TAC). But then I read here that TAC was running at full strength again, we went back, and are glad we did.

Suzy Creamcheese wrote:

DML wrote:There is also another place that I won't mention by name that my wife and I also won't return to. We've had some great meals there, but when we were there last, it just had a very sad and depressing vibe to it. Hard to put a finger on the cause, but after dinner my wife and I both commented on it.

This should go into "Guess the Restaurant".

There have been plenty of places that have fallen into the "I'll never return!" category, but for the most part they tended to be one-offs: one visit revealed bad food or service or some combination thereof, so no need to go back, and no need to remember it, either. We did, however, almost write off TAC Quick some time ago, after several not-up-to-par meals and poor service (and I am aware of what to expect from TAC). But then I read here that TAC was running at full strength again, we went back, and are glad we did.

Keep guessing. I will NEVER tell!

I have only one restaurant in the "I'll never go back" category, a central american ethnic restaurant on the NW side. I went with my daughter, who was then 2, and my aunt. We placed our order and waited, and waited, and waited. No drinks, no food, nothing. Repeated inquiries to the waiter were met with "the kitchen is slow, I'm sure it's coming." Multiple groups who had been seated after us got their drinks, finished their food and left. We walked out. I'm sure they never missed us. We had a great meal at the taco place around the corner.

Jen