"When Envy Is On the Menu"

Have other people already pointed out this article? Grant Achatz discusses the envy of diners who can't stand to see another table get something they can't have (one customer is described as leaving in tears as a result!):

http://food.theatlantic.com/the-food-ch ... able-2.php

I saw that.

People are very strange.

I'll probably be turned around eventually, but every article I read by or about Alinea makes me less and less interested in going there. What an ordeal.

not quite sure i'd leave crying, but if i was spending 200+ on a meal i would want the absolute best.

Kennyz wrote:I'll probably be turned around eventually, but every article I read by or about Alinea makes me less and less interested in going there. What an ordeal.

This is hardly a phenomenon unique to Alinea. You could go to Per Se, French Laundry, el Bulli...any high end restaurant around the world (actually, restaurants at all levels). Different tables can and will get different dishes for all sorts of reasons (VIPs, native language menus, pre-arranged dishes, etc).

Trust me Kenny, after eating at Alinea several times, the last word I'd use to describe it is an "ordeal".

I dont think such a reaction is exclusive to the Alinea's of this world.

I wasnt brought to tears, but I was envious of a tablefull of eaters @ The Palm in Orlando who were all devouring 6# and up whole lobsters..... all I ate was 1/2 of a 2 # lobster, and a 12 oz prime aged steak...

my wallet would not allow for such a large lobster, even though my appetite was up to the task.

jesteinf wrote:

Kennyz wrote:I'll probably be turned around eventually, but every article I read by or about Alinea makes me less and less interested in going there. What an ordeal.

This is hardly a phenomenon unique to Alinea. You could go to Per Se, French Laundry, el Bulli...any high end restaurant around the world (actually, restaurants at all levels). Different tables can and will get different dishes for all sorts of reasons (VIPs, native language menus, pre-arranged dishes, etc).

Trust me Kenny, after eating at Alinea several times, the last word I'd use to describe it is an "ordeal".

none of those places are all that high on my list, either. To be clear, my issue has nothing to do with the different tables getting different dishes thing. I don't have a problem with that. I just don't want to sit somewhere for 5 1/2 hours, however beautiful the flowers and mirrors might be, and have servers explain how this or that must be constructed/ deconstructed to get the optimum flavor/ texture/ hot/cold/ luke warm temperature sensation. I guess I'm a simple guy. The most beautiful food on earth is a perfectly ripe summer peach so juicy that you need a shower after eating. Instructions for eating a peach: eat the peach. That's it. That's my kind of food.

The article wrote:She began to cry, got up from the table, and briskly walked to the bathroom. They cut their meal short and left soon thereafter.

The article wrote:At one point shortly after the dish first was served we had a guests write the restaurant in fury stating that we ruined their anniversary because they did not have the chance to eat the Hot Potato-Cold Potato they saw served to the table next to them.

People are idiots.

One day I'd love for these pathetic sad-sacks to complain that they want what the adjacent table is having, and end up with a vegan, Kosher, gluten- and lactose-free meal.

A few years back, my wife & I had an 8pm Friday reservation at Moto, so naturally we met friends for a beer or four before dinner (I never said we're particularly bright). We both ordered the "Grand Tour Moto" with wine pairings, and around midnight, just before the dessert portion of the evening was about to begin, we were taking turns kicking each other under the table whenever we noticed the other person start to nod off.

I stepped out for some air, and chatted with the Maître d', who said that the staff is generally running on Red Bull at that hour. I jokingly said, "man, we could go for some of that right about now", to which he smiled & nodded. As soon as I returned to my seat, the sommelier appeared with two additional wine glasses and a bundle of white linen (a Red Bull can hidden in a napkin), from which he poured our pick-me-up without saying a word.

The table next to ours saw this, and immediately went nuts...there was a flurry of whispering ("they got an extra pairing!" "I want that too!" "that's not fair!"), nasty glares, and swiveling heads looking for the sommelier so they could demand their "extra pairing". Fortunately the sommelier covered for us, and simply told them "they purchased an additional beverage".

Still, I couldn't help but crack a smile after seeing the four sourpusses still griping about their lost "extra pairing" as we got up to leave

Kennyz wrote: I guess I'm a simple guy. The most beautiful food on earth is a perfectly ripe summer peach so juicy that you need a shower after eating. Instructions for eating a peach: eat the peach. That's it. That's my kind of food.

Now imagine how much more special that peach would be if it were dehydrated, ground into powder and injected into a potato which would then be shaped into a peach and spun around the Large Hadron Collider for 48 hours in order to produce a peach-like texture. You would then be instructed to take small bites while wearing a gas mask connected to a peach air cannister. DO YOU GET IT? IT'S LIKE EATING A PEACH!!!11! Well worth the $73, if you ask me.

cilantro wrote:Well worth the $73, if you ask me.

I'm sure you meant to say $106.

There's no way you could enjoy a dish like that without the appropriate wine pairing.

obviously we're all overstating our cases here, and I'm not in favor of raw food diets, nor against the idea of manipulating good ingredients to make them even better. I'm sure, at some point, the idea taking perfectly fresh cream and whipping air into it seemed like scientific nonsense. And separating the yolk from the albumen just to produce something called a custard probably seemed equally ridiculous. Now it's hard for me to imagine a world without whipped cream and creme brulee. Maybe someday the Alinea creations will reach those same heights.

For now, I just wish more restaurants would serve perfect whipped cream and great creme brulee instead of the garbage most places serve in the name of these classic preparations.

I originally posted the link, because I was shocked by these diners' reactions. Sure, it often happens that I see food being served at other tables and am overcome with envy. I was once in the middle of a very good meal at a Chinese restaurant, when I saw that another table had a heaping platter of whole crabs (seriously, they must have had a couple of dozen!) and another lazy-Susan loaded with bottles of cold beer. Hey, why couldn't we have that?!?

But seriously, do grown-ups actually cry and throw fits, because someone else is getting a dish they aren't? To borrow the peach metaphor, would you reject the peach in front of you, because somebody else is getting an apricot?

MariaTheresa wrote:To borrow the peach metaphor, would you reject the peach in front of you, because somebody else is getting an apricot?

All this talk of peaches is getting very T.S. Eliot-y. Yeah, I'd dare to eat either one.

In Las Vegas, where I write about food and the restaurant scene here, the staff often recognize me (if i'm not friendly with them already from previous visits or introductions), so sometimes I'll get a little something extra from the kitchen, something the chef whips up on the fly just to demonstrate his skills or some great ingredients he just got.

Combine that with the fact that a lot of times servers/managers/sommeliers AND the chef are hovering over me, I often get a lot of stares from other diners, who sometimes will ask the server if I'm someone famous.

And sometimes people do get super upset that I'm getting something "fancier" or a different wine pairing than them, to which I respond, why don't you appreciate what you have in front of you? (which i suppose is a good life lesson in general).

MariaTheresa wrote:But seriously, do grown-ups actually cry and throw fits, because someone else is getting a dish they aren't? To borrow the peach metaphor, would you reject the peach in front of you, because somebody else is getting an apricot?

I don't think grown-ups behave that way, but there are so few grown-ups out there nowadays. They may be taller, and even have gray hair, but that often hides a really spoiled child.

Kennyz wrote:none of those places are all that high on my list, either. To be clear, my issue has nothing to do with the different tables getting different dishes thing. I don't have a problem with that. I just don't want to sit somewhere for 5 1/2 hours, however beautiful the flowers and mirrors might be, and have servers explain how this or that must be constructed/ deconstructed to get the optimum flavor/ texture/ hot/cold/ luke warm temperature sensation. I guess I'm a simple guy. The most beautiful food on earth is a perfectly ripe summer peach so juicy that you need a shower after eating. Instructions for eating a peach: eat the peach. That's it. That's my kind of food.

I don't know that Alinea really matters, in the scheme of things, unless it matters to you. I love it -- have loved Achatz's food since before Alinea existed -- but I know lots of people leading worthwhile lives who will never eat there.

That said, because I join you in your love of the perfectly ripe peach (a thing of beauty, indeed), I think you might like Alinea -- but in moderation. I love Alinea, and yet I wouldn't consider sitting through the 5 1/2 hours of the 24-course dinner. However, I find that the 3 hours or so (which is actually pretty standard for a really high-end meal almost anywhere that does high end) for the 12 courses is just perfect. Now the reason I think the love for the perfect peach equates to a likelihood of liking Alinea is that Alinea is all about flavor. Things are reduced and intensified, paired unusually but in ways that enhance taste, focused, and huge. The textures and fragrances are a bonus, but ultimately, it's about flavor -- and the flavor is generally exquisite.

As for the instructions, they are mostly for your safety and comfort -- don't bite something in half if it has a liquid center, just pop it in your mouth -- that sort of thing. The description of the food may take a minute, but not all food gets instructions, and the instructions there usually make sense once you're looking at the food.

If I could never go back to Alinea again, I'd be perfectly happy with those ripe peaches and a good rib-eye steak (sorry, but I can't make it on fruit alone). But I shall also always be grateful that I've had the opportunity to enjoy Achatz's extremely memorable food.

But then again, the price of dinner at Alinea, if you get the wine pairings, is about half the cost of a plane ticket to London, so when finances force me to choose, the plane ticket wins.

So it's all about priorities. I think you'd really enjoy the flavors at Alinea -- but there might be something else that matters more to you.

Grant Achatz via The Atlantic.com wrote:The wax bowls were spilled, people crushed them in their hands, and even tried to eat them before we acclimated ourselves to the required systems making the dish a success.

LOL . . . guilty as charged.

I'd wager that the person who was so distraught over not getting what the table next to them got has serious issues that range far beyond restaurants and dining. Even if one found this bothersome, I cannot imagine how it could amount to anything more than a minor, easily-dismissed disappointment.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:Even if one found this bothersome, I cannot imagine how it could amount to anything more than a minor, easily-dismissed disappointment.

This is exactly the point.

My wife and I dined at a not-inexpensive local restaurant last year and we noticed a number of tables around us receiving what looked to be a very interesting and generous first course "complements of the chef", as their waiter described. Since we were seated around the same time as these tables (there were three tables, if I remember correctly), we assumed that we'd receive the same treatment. We did not, and we were momentarily annoyed. I can certainly see where the envy or disappointment would come in.

But the key is "momentarily annoyed". I said to my wife, "I'm sure the chef made a small number of these and handed them out to whatever servers were available with new tables", or some other reasonable explanation. Whatever the explanation, we were secure in the fact that no one in the restaurant was trying to ruin our meal or deny us anything. We brushed it off and enjoyed ourselves.

Cynthia wrote:But then again, the price of dinner at Alinea, if you get the wine pairings, is about half the cost of a plane ticket to London, so when finances force me to choose, the plane ticket wins.

You ain't kiddin'.

"tour" menu for two + wine pairings + tax & tip = 2 coach roundtrips to Europe (3 if American's having a fare special)

Khaopaat wrote:

Cynthia wrote:But then again, the price of dinner at Alinea, if you get the wine pairings, is about half the cost of a plane ticket to London, so when finances force me to choose, the plane ticket wins.

You ain't kiddin'.

"tour" menu for two + wine pairings + tax & tip = 2 coach roundtrips to Europe (3 if American's having a fare special)

2 tasting menus at the fat duck in Bray + 2 mid-level wine pairings = 2 coach roundtrips to europe

just saying

See, but you'd already be in Europe. So that sounds like a better deal.

As the old saying goes:

Having a meal in a restaurant is like getting married – you look a what’s available and you make your choice, but when you see what the person at the next table has, you wish that you had it, too.

Generally, I would agree that being envious of what another table gets is silly...but we just ate at Alinea for the first time last Friday evening. We were seated between two other tables. One table was 2 courses ahead and the other 1 course ahead. We were all getting the 12 course menu and chatting about things as they came. Then the table to one side of us received the black truffle explosion. Then the table to the other side received hot potato/cold potato. The waiter explained that different tables receive different items. Previously, all our courses had been the same. The next thing we knew, we were on the same course as the hot potato/cold potato table...what we hadn't understood was that both the truffle and potato courses were 'extra', above and beyond the 12 courses we all received equally and that were all exactly the same. The hot potato/cold potato table then was selected for the 'experimental' dessert course made at the table by Grant Achatz. We were excited that he was at the table next to us so we were not jealous of that at all, but given that the other two courses were not 'experimental' (the potato/truffle options) and both of our neighbors had 13 courses to our 12, we felt a little cheated overall. Especially since none of our courses were a surprise having seen everything delivered to the tables next to us already. We didn't need to have the same extra course as either table, but we certainly felt that an equivalency was in order since we were all paying the same amount of money for the same number of courses and we watched our neighbors get a little extra bang for their buck. At Schwa (which we both much prefer) when there is an extra course, as far as I can tell everybody gets it. That seems only fair to me.

Here's my question: say you're at a restaurant, perhaps one where you know the chef/owner/manager/whatever, or perhaps you don't know anyone but you're just having a lucky sort of night. Anyway, you receive an extra amuse, or an experimental dish to try out, or an extra morsel of dessert.

Or maybe you and the sommelier get to chatting, and he says, "you know, I think I know something you might enjoy", and he brings you and your dining partner an extra tasting portion of something that isn't a part of the normal pairing menu.

Be honest with yourself now. Do you:
A) happily accept the bonus item?
B) accept the bonus item, but feel guilty about it?
C) decline the bonus item accepting it would be unfair to the other diners?
D) accept the bonus item, then indignantly insist that all diners present should receive that item?

By answering "A" (because I have been on the receiving end of bonus items a few times in the past), I believe I have waived my right to get upset when I see other diners get a little something extra (which has happened to me also, many more times than receiving bonus items has). I figure I could keep score of what others are getting versus what I'm getting and let it ruin a perfectly nice (and very expensive) evening, or I could behave like an adult and carry on with my excellent meal & engaging conversation. As long as I get at least what the menu said I was supposed to get for the price I agreed to pay, I don't understand what the problem is.

I don't see how someone getting an extra amuse at a restaurant is any different than your favorite bartender giving you a double for the price of a single, or being rung up with the employee discount by the owner of a trendy boutique because your weekly jean & shoe purchases are putting her kid through college. These little perks from building social & business relationships happen all the time...would you turn them down because they'd be unfair to others? If the person in line in front of you at a coffee shop was on a first-name basis with the barista, and got a dollar off their order as a result, would you feel upset?

bon2mic wrote:At Schwa (which we both much prefer) when there is an extra course, as far as I can tell everybody gets it. That seems only fair to me.

Not necessarily. If I've been to Schwa 10 times, and you've been once*, why is it "fair" that I receive the same treatment as you if I've invested 10 times more money in the restaurant? Don't regulars deserve a little something extra?

*Hypothetically. I have not been to Schwa 10 times, and I have no idea how many times you've been.

I agree with many of the points made above, but I do have to say that the tables next to us were not friends of anyone at the restaurant (as I said, we had all been chatting so I can attest to this) or regulars (both were from out of town and had never eaten there before). If they were, getting something extra is absolutely their due. I was thrilled for them that they got extra courses and wouldn't in any way want to take that away from them. What I felt was that given the show that Alinea makes of presenting each course of food, it felt odd to have that show go on on both sides of you but not be a party to it. I am not denying my neighboring tables their right to the extra food, but I think they also felt uncomfortable when we didn't receive an extra course.

The only time that I have been upset by not getting an extra was when it seemed like everyone else in the restaurant was getting it. I understand that there are VIP tables in many higher end places, and I have no problem with that, but if I am the only non-vip in the place, then it seems weird. There was basically an amuse at the beginning, and an extra dessert at the end, which, as far as I could tell, every other table got and we didnt. I didnt let it ruin my night though.

-Will

So, we went to Alinea and I couldn't help but think of this thread.

We were sitting at the third table in a row of three tables. At the first table was a "friend of the restaurant", at the second table was a couple that had never been to Alinea, and at the third table was us (we're not regulars, but we've been to Trio/Alinea enough times that we're known and often get a few extra dishes).

I think the first table was doing the Tour so they were getting tons and tons of things, including the dessert prepared at the table by Achatz. My wife and I did the tasting and got some extras (truffle explosion, the Escoffier course, the table-side dessert). The second table was also doing the tasting so it became very obvious about half-way through the meal that even though we were doing the same menu, we were not having the same dinner. The couple at the second table, though, appeared to be pretty experienced diners and weren't put off in the least about what was going on around them. In fact, I think it was actually a pretty good marketing tool by the restaurant, because now these people know what awaits them if they make the investment in return visits.

Anyway, just another datapoint. Definitely no tears at Alinea last night.