LTH Home

Raw vs. Pasteurized Milk Cheese Throwdown

Raw vs. Pasteurized Milk Cheese Throwdown
  • Forum HomePost Reply BackTop
  • Raw vs. Pasteurized Milk Cheese Throwdown

    Post #1 - November 10th, 2009, 11:46 am
    Post #1 - November 10th, 2009, 11:46 am Post #1 - November 10th, 2009, 11:46 am
    Raw vs. Pasteurized Milk Cheese Throwdown

    Among many, it’s accepted as an article of faith that raw milk makes better cheese than pasteurized milk because Pasteurization…neutralizes enzymes and bacteria that produce flavor, character, and complexity.

    In the United States, you can’t sell raw milk cheese aged under 60 days (aging helps eliminate bad bacteria). There are those in Europe and elsewhere who regularly eat raw milk cheese aged under 60 days and say it’s way better than pasteurized milk cheese.

    So, I decided to test this in my own marginally scientific way.

    I contacted some cheese mongers to see if they could get me some raw milk cheese aged under 60 days, and they were very hesitant to get involved (especially when I mentioned that I might want to do a WBEZ segment on the topic). There are politically sensitive and legal issues at stake here.

    Then GWiv introduced me to Giles of The Great American Cheese Collection, who put me in touch with a cheese maker (whose name I’ll withhold for the time being -- she may very well join in this discussion at some point), who said she could make a pair of cheeses using the same milk and undergoing the same process of cheesemaking – but one set would be from raw milk and the other set from pasteurized.

    My plan: to do a blind taste test of the same type of cheese (camembert), made from the same milk by the same cheesemaker using the same chemistry and equipment…but one set of cheeses will be made of raw milk and one from pasteurized milk, all aged under 60 days.

    Here’s how the baby camemberts looked the day they were born, a few weeks ago:

    Image

    The cheese is coming into its own. More updates and pix to come as babies grow.
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #2 - November 10th, 2009, 12:10 pm
    Post #2 - November 10th, 2009, 12:10 pm Post #2 - November 10th, 2009, 12:10 pm
    Fascinating! I'll be interested how the blind test comes out!
  • Post #3 - November 11th, 2009, 12:11 pm
    Post #3 - November 11th, 2009, 12:11 pm Post #3 - November 11th, 2009, 12:11 pm
    Why you sly dog, passing off a cheese glut as science! :wink:

    I like the premise and can't wait for the results. I've always wondered about the raw milk v. pasteurized debate and look forward to the tasting notes!
  • Post #4 - November 11th, 2009, 4:23 pm
    Post #4 - November 11th, 2009, 4:23 pm Post #4 - November 11th, 2009, 4:23 pm
    David...the rabble rouser! :)
  • Post #5 - November 14th, 2009, 5:31 am
    Post #5 - November 14th, 2009, 5:31 am Post #5 - November 14th, 2009, 5:31 am
    I've been getting regular pic updates from my favorite Maitre Fromager. Just got one of our pretty cheese, ready to go into paper:

    Image
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #6 - December 21st, 2009, 1:46 pm
    Post #6 - December 21st, 2009, 1:46 pm Post #6 - December 21st, 2009, 1:46 pm
    Last week, several chefs and a few foodie friends tasted the two camembert, one made from pasteurized and one made from raw milk.

    Based on the photos below, can you guess which is which?

    Image

    Image

    When tasting the cheeses, the participants in this test were uniformly accurate in their assessments. The raw milk cheese smelled better and tasted better.

    At Marion Street Cheese Market, one of the cheese mongers guessed incorrectly based on appearance…but once she tasted each, it was clear which one was made with raw milk cheese: more complexity, more dimension, more funk.
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #7 - December 21st, 2009, 2:00 pm
    Post #7 - December 21st, 2009, 2:00 pm Post #7 - December 21st, 2009, 2:00 pm
    Hi,

    IF you are asking people to guess, I will venture to guess the raw milk is on the left.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #8 - December 21st, 2009, 8:30 pm
    Post #8 - December 21st, 2009, 8:30 pm Post #8 - December 21st, 2009, 8:30 pm
    I'm guessing raw is on the left also.
  • Post #9 - December 21st, 2009, 8:44 pm
    Post #9 - December 21st, 2009, 8:44 pm Post #9 - December 21st, 2009, 8:44 pm
    Yes, raw is on the left. Lack of uniformity evidence of wild bacteria, much deliciousness, short life.
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #10 - December 22nd, 2009, 4:21 am
    Post #10 - December 22nd, 2009, 4:21 am Post #10 - December 22nd, 2009, 4:21 am
    Great experiment, glad you had the opportunity.

    Did you mean short life because it was eaten quickly, or a shorter lifespan because of the wild bacteria?

    Jeff
  • Post #11 - December 22nd, 2009, 8:55 am
    Post #11 - December 22nd, 2009, 8:55 am Post #11 - December 22nd, 2009, 8:55 am
    jvalentino wrote:Great experiment, glad you had the opportunity.

    Did you mean short life because it was eaten quickly, or a shorter lifespan because of the wild bacteria?

    Jeff


    Second thought is closer to point: it is so full of life, the raw milk cheese burns out sooner; the pasteurized milk cheese, on the other hand, is less full of living, wild bacteria so it's is edible for a longer amount of time (to put it in mundane terms, it has a longer shelf life). There's a life lesson there somewhere.
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #12 - December 22nd, 2009, 11:01 am
    Post #12 - December 22nd, 2009, 11:01 am Post #12 - December 22nd, 2009, 11:01 am
    David Hammond wrote:Yes, raw is on the left. Lack of uniformity evidence of wild bacteria, much deliciousness, short life.

    The difference between the two Camemberts, both at 47 days, one made with raw milk the other with pasteurized, was readily apparent using four of the five senses, sight, smell, taste and touch, and I'm sure if cheese could speak sound would have come into play as well.

    Camembert(L) Raw Milk (R) Pasteurized Milk

    Image

    Raw milk Camembert had less structure, it seemed to be slumping, and had a softer creamier interior. The rind of the pasteurized had a noticeable note of ammonia, though this dissipated after being cut, while rind on the raw had a subtle earthy slightly vegetal scent. When cut raw milk Camembert had an earthy aroma, mushroom, damp ground cover leaves in a fall forest, very appealing. Pasteurized, mild, neutral, once ammonia scent dissipated.

    Flavor wise pasteurized milk Camembert, while buttery, was one dimensional, raw milk Camembert buttery, complex, hints of mushroom, earthy, very appealing.

    Raw milk Camembert my strong preference among the two.

    Camembert Throwdown was interesting, tasty and educational, thanks Hammond. Thanks also to Giles for facilitating and the talented cheese maker.

    Enjoy,
    Gary
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #13 - December 30th, 2009, 9:16 am
    Post #13 - December 30th, 2009, 9:16 am Post #13 - December 30th, 2009, 9:16 am
    Comrade Sula was kind enough to forward to me this link from NYT, regarding innovative techniques for making better camembert by coaxing more flavor out of pasteurized milk:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/dinin ... ref=dining
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #14 - January 2nd, 2010, 8:14 pm
    Post #14 - January 2nd, 2010, 8:14 pm Post #14 - January 2nd, 2010, 8:14 pm
    David,
    Reading McGee's "On Food and Cooking"*, he talks about pasteurization and its affect on milk:
    McGee wrote:The action of the rennet is slightly retarded, apparently because the denatured lactoglobin forms a complex with the casein subunit that rennet attacks, thereby protecting it from that attack. The result is a somewhat moister, weaker curd that is usually obtained from raw milk, one that must be ripened about twice as long before the full flavor and texture of the cheese develops.

    I think you need another experiment: Start several pasteurized cheeses to ripen at one-week intervals so that when the raw-milk cheese is ready, you've got several ages of pasteurized.

    I still don't think you'll get the same flavor or exactly the same characteristics, but you might get closer.

    McGee also comments that contemporary tastes run to milder flavors such as those the pasteurized process produce.

    We are entitled to disagree.



    * Did you doubt I'm a food geek?
    What is patriotism, but the love of good things we ate in our childhood?
    -- Lin Yutang

Contact

About

Team

Advertize

Close

Chat

Articles

Guide

Events

more