JLenart wrote:Seriously though I don't belive this is a conspiracy whatsoever. The producers do nothing to hide the fact that they do have some influence over choices made by the judges. To be honest I'm fine with that since it ultimately makes for better TV.

Welllll, at the risk of rehashing old arguments, Tom and Gail both insist that the extent of their "consultations" with the producers have never been beyond the few occasions when, for example, they wanted to eliminate two people, or wanted to eliminate nobody, or wanted to know if their desired elimination was within the scope of the rules due to some odd situation. When there's a big cash prize on the line, I imagine they may need input into grey areas for legal reasons. But they both swear up and down that the producers have never gotten in the way of them eliminating whoever they wanted to eliminate, nor have they exerted influence on close calls.

It's always seemed perfectly plausible to me that the producers need to maintain "consulting" rights for the reasons mentioned above, but that they mostly remain hands-off, good TV notwithstanding. As a producer, I'm sure you'd agree that they don't need to fix results to get good TV... that's what good casting directors and good editors are for.

Dmnkly wrote: As a producer, I'm sure you'd agree that they don't need to fix results to get good TV... that's what good casting directors and good editors are for.

Exactly. Survivor has never had any trouble creating drama and suspense even in the most predictable of seasons. And it's not because the contest is rigged.

Dmnkly wrote:

JLenart wrote:Seriously though I don't belive this is a conspiracy whatsoever. The producers do nothing to hide the fact that they do have some influence over choices made by the judges. To be honest I'm fine with that since it ultimately makes for better TV.

Welllll, at the risk of rehashing old arguments, Tom and Gail both insist that the extent of their "consultations" with the producers have never been beyond the few occasions when, for example, they wanted to eliminate two people, or wanted to eliminate nobody, or wanted to know if their desired elimination was within the scope of the rules due to some odd situation. When there's a big cash prize on the line, I imagine they may need input into grey areas for legal reasons. But they both swear up and down that the producers have never gotten in the way of them eliminating whoever they wanted to eliminate, nor have they exerted influence on close calls.

It's always seemed perfectly plausible to me that the producers need to maintain "consulting" rights for the reasons mentioned above, but that they mostly remain hands-off, good TV notwithstanding. As a producer, I'm sure you'd agree that they don't need to fix results to get good TV... that's what good casting directors and good editors are for.

Yes I agree with you entirely. I've never heard or read anything about what role the producers play in the elimination process other than that they do consult with the judges. It is plausible that they only influence choices when rules come into play. I'd say theres a difference between fixing and influencing though.

I don't argue either way that they either have influence over eliminations or not but how can they find things wrong with practically every dish presented except for Casey's? As i stated earlier perhaps she is just head and shoulders above the rest but I just have a hard time beliveing that.

Anyway it is good TV.

Didn't mean to rehash an old arguement. Sorry about that.

Considering that Ferran Adrià, Thomas Keller, Daniel Boulud, and Heston Blumenthal will be cooking dishes at Trotter's on Oct. 7th for a $5,000/person charity event (from Dish) one would think that a couple of them might have some part in the Top Chef Finale airing live in Chicago a few days before...hmmm...

As for the conspiracies theories as to who wins the whole thing, my understanding is that nobody (except the judges, producers, etc. perhaps) knows who wins because the result will be announced on Oct. 3. Thus, I don't think we can read too much into Dale opening a West Loop restaurant.

Dale kicked but - awesome episode!

When I woke up this morning, I never thought I'd go to sleep dreaming of blackberries, huckleberries and elk.

Bravo!

Pardon the pun.

Perhaps the best episode of TC in 3 seasons. Congrats to the producers and the entire crew for a specatacular piece of TV. A few edit choices that I'd have made differently but other than that just awesome!

Maybe I'm a bit of a homer but I was really pulling for Dale and I'm thrilled he made the finals.

But lets start at the beginning.

I don't know if I agreed with the first line of copy " 15 of the most accomplished chefs from across the country..." OK so we have some real skill but "the most accomplished"? Lets not overstate things.

This followed by a very nice montage that recapped the season very nicely.


Some really gorgeous photography. Of cours eits hard to screw up Aspen in a hot air baloon at magic hour. GORGEOUS LIGHT! Theres something so amazing about the light in the mountains.

Dales interview bytes during the hot air baloon montage really did a great job of building emotion and made the viewer want him to win. Nice. Same with Hung. Finally I feel an attachment to the guy, where he talked about making his dad proud. Very emotional for the guy who's been painted as the cooking robot, technichally perfect but no soul.

Fish for Eric Ripert? Holy smokes!

I can't believe no one chose to do trout almondine! It's such a classic. Maybe its to obvious.

20 minutes in an outdoor setting seemed a bit unfair. I thought, Oh gosh here we go again with silly constrsaints, but then again, I've done some amazing camp fire cooking in Colorado as well as Alsaska but at the same time nothing was on the line and Eric Ripert wasn't judging me..

I wondered why Brian waqs messing with his filets in the pan before the skin had crisped. Seems like a mistake I would have made. LOL. I had no idea how Brian's fish ended up on the ground and how he recovered from it....YIKES!

Hung's dish looked great, but he finished so early, not the first time. Looks like he's too worried about speed at times and this time he forgot a key element to his dish in all the speed.

I loved Brian's use of the roe in his dish, and of course bacon makes everything better! Casey kept it simple and the idea sounded just awesome. Dale, cayenne with trout? DUDE seoriously? Brian's byte that "chefs dpn't consider trout seafood" seemed silly and ignorant, particularly coming from him. Obviously Casey deserved the win here.

Casey's quote that her style is pan-asian came as a supris eto me since I don't recall any of her cooking being that. But perhaps I don't remember that..

3 hours to cook for 45 people? YIKES! The bonus for winning the quickfire didn't seem that big of an advantage to me. Particularly when Casey said she wasn't using any of it.

ELK! Yum! Hung's byte about it being booring? I just don't get that. Of course I love game. From Dale's interview it became apparent that he had a bit of an edge here. Casety knew what she was doing here and I liked thsat she chose a different cut than the other. Brian choosing to do a braise in 3 hours was curious. Dales idea opf doing a tart with cream cheese seemed odd before he had an idea of the pantry's components. Maybe its because I had this amazing cauliflower soup at Schwa last week that Casey's side sounded amazing too. I also liked that Choliccio announced that only none person was going home in this eppisode. Hung having never cooked elk before definately put him behind the 8 ball. Dale was very smart to pull out a plan B for his side. Hung finshed early but he admitted he wasn't into it. Seemed a bit foreboding for him.

Boy Casey really tuned on The Texas accent when the coubuys/girls arrived....kinda cute. Her dish, I love the idea of a poached pear with the elk. Th rest of the dish sounded great too but I feel that it being as rare as it was was a much bigger problem than it was made out to be.

Dale's dish was obviously of the midwest and something I would order in any restraunt.

Hung, while techichally proficient as always seemed to ,miss out on what elk was all about.

Brian, wow, maybe it was edited that way, but wow, talk about too much going on there. Dude, back it off a notch. I didn't get the idea behing letting the guest choose the cheese. Id personallty have taken a bit of each, just further confusing things.


At the judges table I feel all of the comments were fair and unbiased but Choliccio saying to Hung "We don't see you in food at all" seemed a bit of a slam and just unfair. His problem seems to be that he's a bit too much of a technician.

All in all I'm not suprised with the outcome tonight and am thrilled for Dale. Go home town!

The "Why should you go on question" was really nice and hearing the answers yopu didn't want to see anyone go home.

Great job to the producers cast and crew. I can't wait till next week.

Dale's Cowboy quote was priceless too! Ha!

Question, caveat - I love spicy, but what is wrong with a little cayenne dusting on trout?

And also, this is funny since Dale, supposedly, under-seasoned last epsiode on the le Cirque dish!

JLenart wrote:Choliccio saying to Hung "We don't see you in food at all" seemed a bit of a slam and just unfair.

I remembered this cut from the preview last week and my jaw dropped tonight just as it did then.

I had to listen to this a couple of times, but given the context, I think what Chef Tom said was "We don't see you in your food at all."

Given his skills, Hung clearly should be in food. And there's no way the judges would give him that kind of a dressing down and then send him on to the finals.

I think you are right but it sounded like "We don't see you in food at all." Also, given the shocked look on Hung's face...

Great summary, JLenart.

I too, was thrilled for Dale. Learning that he "won" the round was the only time I can ever remember slapping a high five with my wife during an episode of reality tv. A very satisfying win.

I can hardly wait for next week.

=R=

It's going to be packed at Sola this week.

Thrilled for Dale - Go Chi-town!

I must say, having watched all of the episdoes, some twice (I know, I'm a loser ) tonight's result confused me by leaps and bounds.

From all tasters' reviews and appearances of the dishes and comments from both judges and regular eaters prior to the judging table - it seemed like Casey was a shoe-in for demise and that it was not close. That Elk was extremely rare and the same faux-paux had banished no less than the last casualty on the show - Sarah.

So let me get this straight - Casey's doneness skills sucked, her side was bad but her sauce was very good rendering the other parts of the dish meaningless. C'mon - I smell a rat.

Casey is clearly the second best chef after Hung but she should have been packing her bags tonight bar none based upon the comments in the episode - sounds like some producer influencde B.S. to me to keep a female dynamic around. Though Casey may be 2nd best overall she was clearly, from what was shown on the episode, a distant 4th tonight.

Bster

Agree 100%. It was as if the judges agreed that Casey's was the worst, and, when faced with her elimination, veered around and thought, well, wasn't that smoked tomato butter fantastic, and if only she cooked her elk more, whereas Brian, on the other hand . . .

Maybe it's only me, but in my assessment, Padma=fairest judge; Colicchio=most unfair. In last week's episode, Padma stuck her neck out and proclaimed that Brian's very messy/untechnical peasant's pie was her favorite dish even though it wasn't "cool" to do so. I've always gotten the sense that Colicchio isn't too keen on Dale, and it seemed as if it killed him to say that his dish was his favorite, even though Eric Ripert and everybody else were already on record saying that it was the best dish (and seemed like the best dish, hands down).

With regard to Brian's cheese choice:

I cook a salmon dish with two sauces (one a butter/caper sauce and the other a honey/mustard), and put both on the plate (separated by potato). Seeing the interplay between the two can be interesting and it makes the wine interesting. The idea of course comes from Wine Spectator.

I'm not sure why Brian didn't go that route of putting both on and then noting how each changes the feel of the dish.

Last night's episode was good, but I think prefer the style of challenge that happened in last years, second to last episode. A meal to introduce the contestants to the dish, and then telling them that they had to use them to cook for a group the next day.

I know they always say they judge on a weekly basis, but I just don't believe it, otherwise Casey would have been gone. Unless Eric Rippert saying your sauce is "amazing" is enough to keep you around.

I'm not really a Casey fan, but I'll stick up for her here: I don't think the judges seemed to be implying that her dish was the worst. Sure, it was very rare, but serving rare red meat is not at all the same as serving undercooked chicken (the reference to Sara). Also, I think part of the problem was that elk is just naturally a bloodier-looking piece of meat than beef. It was shockingly rare looking, but I think part of that was just because it was not a meat we're used to seeing all that often.

Brian's dish, on the other hand, seemed to be an unfocused mess. None of the judges found anything to really love about it, whereas Casey's at least had a sauce that wowed them all.

And the Hung thing--I use closed captioning on my tv, and Colicchio said "we don't see you in THE food at all." It makes sense in the context of the discussion--he's technically the best cook, but just no real heart in it. And his response to the "why should you stay?" question reflects this as well--it was all about how cooking, to him, is an expression of his soul.

But more importantly, yay for Dale!! I thought he got screwed on the American Classics challenge, so I'm glad to see he finally won one...and what a great one to win!

Snark wrote:So, the majority of people predict Hung or Casey to win, understandably. That is how the editors, for the most part, let you see it.

But does anyone, besides me, think Dale takes it all?

It makes perfect sense - he has been flying under the radar the whole season and is also starting a restaurant in the next year - which is a sign that maybe he won since the winner gets 100k to start a new restaurant.

Also, Ted Allen says to watch out for Dale - he could win.

I've been predicting that Dale will be the Top Chef for about 3 weeks now. I read Ruhlman's book "The Reach of a Chef", and Dale was mentioned several times since he had cooked at Blackbird and had been picked to replace Grant Achatz at Trio. I had never heard of Trio's owner, Henry Adaniya, before, but the guy clearly had a great eye for talent. If he thought Dale was good enough to replace Achatz, and had previously had Rick Tramanto, Gale Gand and Shawn McClain working for him, then certainly Dale is good enough to beat the other contestants on Top Chef.

Just my theory.

GardenofEatin wrote:I'm not really a Casey fan, but I'll stick up for her here: I don't think the judges seemed to be implying that her dish was the worst. Sure, it was very rare, but serving rare red meat is not at all the same as serving undercooked chicken (the reference to Sara). Also, I think part of the problem was that elk is just naturally a bloodier-looking piece of meat than beef. It was shockingly rare looking, but I think part of that was just because it was not a meat we're used to seeing all that often.

It wasn't just that her meat was too rare, they also didn't like her cauliflower, they thought the all the flavors were off. It seemed as if everyone agreed that Casey's entire dish was off until someone (I think, Gail) suggested, well, that smoked tomato butter was fantastic!

GardenofEatin wrote:I'm not really a Casey fan, but I'll stick up for her here: I don't think the judges seemed to be implying that her dish was the worst. Sure, it was very rare, but serving rare red meat is not at all the same as serving undercooked chicken (the reference to Sara). Also, I think part of the problem was that elk is just naturally a bloodier-looking piece of meat than beef. It was shockingly rare looking, but I think part of that was just because it was not a meat we're used to seeing all that often.

Brian's dish, on the other hand, seemed to be an unfocused mess. None of the judges found anything to really love about it, whereas Casey's at least had a sauce that wowed them all.

I read Colicchio's blog this morning (http://www.bravotv.com/blog/tomcolicchi ... n_high.php) and he seems to indicate that every dish, but Dale's, had a flaw, but that Casey's flaw was less than Hung's and Brian's.

At this point, I would think that the judges now say to themselves, OK...these four are all good. They've all had hits and misses but if they're here, mostly hits. Now, let's use each dish in the remaining challenges to look a little more deeply into who they are as a chef, what they value, etc (and I think that this rationale is evident from the "tell us what food means to you" question they asked everyone at the end).

Put aside Dale...everyone seems to think his dish was best.

Casey's flaw was technical: a slightly undercooked piece of game. Game, we know, has to be cooked carefully, but (and some of the more talented cooks on this board could tell me if I'm wrong) the "sin" of undercooking things like elk, venison, buffalo, etc. is much less than if you undercooked raised meats (beef, for instance). So a rarer piece of elk wouldn't be as offputting, flavor and texture-wise, as a very rare steak. Conceptually, her dish was hot, though, and flavorwise very good.

Hung's flaw creative: was this idea of "soulessness" and a lack of awareness of what ingredients really work well with one another. But we have the technical proficiency that everyone keeps coming back to.

Brian's flaw was technical and creative: that while the flavors might be good, he couldn't restrain himself. While it also seemed that Dale had a lot going on, it was structured and clear why each thin was on the plate. Brian suffered from a disorderly plate, using the natural flavors of so many good ingredients as a crutch. I completely agree with Ripert's comment about the cheese: why? Give me an option to use it to my tastes, but pick the best one and keep it structured on the plate. Brian's dish was "homey," for sure, but the Top Chef needs to make sure that they produce something that a home cook can't just throw together (at least, not at this stage) and this dish was thrown together.

Of the three flaws: a minor technique issue; a issue about creativity and "soul;" and conceptual "messiness" that combines technical and creative deficits, Brian moves to the bottom.

Whether or not the show was well-enough edited to emphasize this, I'm not sure. But from the evidence of who was kicked off, the judges' discussion, and the "who are you and why do you cook" question, I'm guessing that this was the reason for Brian's dismissal.

Casey's flaw was technical: a slightly undercooked piece of game

I think this is a bit off the mark. Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember Rippert for sure saying at least two or three times that Casey's offering was cooked "Black and Blue" - my understansing of this is burnt on the outside and raw in the middle. Not "a little too rare". Seems much more than a slight undercooking to me. And, I believe Rippert said this to one of the other judges as well - think it was Colocchio but not certain - and that other jusge concurred.

Also, and my memory is admittedly a bit more muddied here, I seem to recall that Brian's dish had the most positive initial reactions of any of the plates from the cowboys and at least one judge who was at the table with them when they were trying the dish.


Bster

Bster wrote:I think this is a bit off the mark. Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember Rippert for sure saying at least two or three times that Casey's offering was cooked "Black and Blue" - my understansing of this is burnt on the outside and raw in the middle. Not "a little too rare". Seems much more than a slight undercooking to me. And, I believe Rippert said this to one of the other judges as well - think it was Colocchio but not certain - and that other jusge concurred.

Also, and my memory is admittedly a bit more muddied here, I seem to recall that Brian's dish had the most positive initial reactions of any of the plates from the cowboys and at least one judge who was at the table with them when they were trying the dish.


Bster

Our recollections are the same; I think that cjkrautk's post is a bit of an oversimplification of the judging. Also, as I said above, the judges were initially critical of the entire flavoring of Casey's dish. And if Eric Ripert claims that it's black and blue, then it is (which is much more than a slight undercooking). I also recall that Brian's dish was well-liked by the cowboys and I don't think the judges had an issue with it except for the chaotic nature of the ingredients and the fact that he refused to choose which blue cheese should accompany the dish.

I think this is the one show where it is inarguable that the judging of the three bottom chefs was based upon past performance rather than the discreet elimination challenge that week. (Hoo boy, here comes dmnkly !)

Eh. We didn't taste the dishes. Of course it's arguable.

Beth and I both thought, as soon as we saw MALARKEY's dish, that he was the one going home. The comments throughout the rest of the episode made that even clearer.

There was no doubt in our minds, that based on this and solely this dish, he would go home. It struck us as one of the easier decisions for the judges of the season.

Did anyone else think, that from watching the previews for next week, that Casey is in trouble?

And wouldn't you like to see a challnge that is simply "Cook for us, no holds barred."

JLenart wrote:Did anyone else think, that from watching the previews for next week, that Casey is in trouble?

And wouldn't you like to see a challnge that is simply "Cook for us, no holds barred."

That's usually what the final, final challenge is, isn't it? I remember last seasons finale of Marcel v. Ilan being "cook us the best meal of your life."

And yes, the editing of the previews might make you think that Casey's in trouble, but who knows... curse Bravo and their editing mad editing skillz!

I don't watch the show, but I figured I'd post this:

I stepped out of the elevator of the Halsted/Waveland to find myself in a scene of, well, not really utter chaos. But, there were cameras rolling, booms swinging, and people in chefs jackets running amok. Due to my unfamiliarity with the show, it took me until I could see the embroidered "Top Chef" on one man's jacket to figure out what was going on. (Yes, they did have a sign in the elevator, but I was didn't see it, due to a couple of other women cooing over my baby.)

After I finished my shopping, I found myself waiting for the elevator with some of the contestants. As they got on, an employee warned them that this elevator only went down to the parking garage. As they filed out to wait for the other elevator, my thought was:

If they're working in here, then will the judging be here? And if so, is Tony Bourdain in the building now???

--gtgitl

gtgirl wrote:I don't watch the show, but I figured I'd post this:

I stepped out of the elevator of the Halsted/Waveland to find myself in a scene of, well, not really utter chaos. But, there were cameras rolling, booms swinging, and people in chefs jackets running amok. Due to my unfamiliarity with the show, it took me until I could see the embroidered "Top Chef" on one man's jacket to figure out what was going on. (Yes, they did have a sign in the elevator, but I was didn't see it, due to a couple of other women cooing over my baby.)

After I finished my shopping, I found myself waiting for the elevator with some of the contestants. As they got on, an employee warned them that this elevator only went down to the parking garage. As they filed out to wait for the other elevator, my thought was:

If they're working in here, then will the judging be here? And if so, is Tony Bourdain in the building now???

--gtgitl

Cool. Where was the elevator on Halsted and Waveland?

aschie30 wrote:

gtgirl wrote:I don't watch the show, but I figured I'd post this:

I stepped out of the elevator of the Halsted/Waveland to find myself in a scene of, well, not really utter chaos. But, there were cameras rolling, booms swinging, and people in chefs jackets running amok. Due to my unfamiliarity with the show, it took me until I could see the embroidered "Top Chef" on one man's jacket to figure out what was going on. (Yes, they did have a sign in the elevator, but I was didn't see it, due to a couple of other women cooing over my baby.)

After I finished my shopping, I found myself waiting for the elevator with some of the contestants. As they got on, an employee warned them that this elevator only went down to the parking garage. As they filed out to wait for the other elevator, my thought was:

If they're working in here, then will the judging be here? And if so, is Tony Bourdain in the building now???

--gtgitl

Cool. Where was the elevator on Halsted and Waveland?

This is what happens when I try to type with a baby in one arm and only a couple of functioning brain cells. The Halsted & Waveland Whole Foods. Argh... I'm hoping that I'll have a few more brain cells working soon.

gtgirl wrote:

aschie30 wrote:

gtgirl wrote:I don't watch the show, but I figured I'd post this:

I stepped out of the elevator of the Halsted/Waveland to find myself in a scene of, well, not really utter chaos. But, there were cameras rolling, booms swinging, and people in chefs jackets running amok. Due to my unfamiliarity with the show, it took me until I could see the embroidered "Top Chef" on one man's jacket to figure out what was going on. (Yes, they did have a sign in the elevator, but I was didn't see it, due to a couple of other women cooing over my baby.)

After I finished my shopping, I found myself waiting for the elevator with some of the contestants. As they got on, an employee warned them that this elevator only went down to the parking garage. As they filed out to wait for the other elevator, my thought was:

If they're working in here, then will the judging be here? And if so, is Tony Bourdain in the building now???

--gtgitl

Cool. Where was the elevator on Halsted and Waveland?

This is what happens when I try to type with a baby in one arm and only a couple of functioning brain cells. The Halsted & Waveland Whole Foods. Argh... I'm hoping that I'll have a few more brain cells working soon.

Ahhh . . . that must be next season's "Fresh Market" where they do all their pre-elimination challenge shopping.