Ronnie,

Sorry, I don't remember the name. When I'm at Andy's I usually just point and then say "half pound" or whatever.

I'm always amazed at Andy's by the craftsmanship that goes into their cold meat cases. I especially like the one product where the belly is wrapped around a slab of ham, before being netted and hot smoked. (Bende get's this product from Andy's and calls it New York Bacon, but it has a different name at Andy's.) The contrast between the chewy rind, the meaty smoked ham and the silky fat is incredible.

And they have another sausage shaped roll with the belly wrapped around a medium ground forcemeat of pork before being poached or smoked. I'm also very fond of their loaf of smoked ham shank chunks which also has great texture.

JoelF wrote:Verdict on hamburgers? No casing, no curing or smoking, can be seasoned or mixed with other ingredients (would an egg be an exclusion factor?)... No sir, not a sausage, 'cause I don't say sausage when I point my finger at it.

The key to me is the casing. If it's encased, then it's probably what I would call a sausage.

David Hammond wrote:The key to me is the casing. If it's encased, then it's probably what I would call a sausage.

What about čevapčiči?

I guess you didn't say "if it's not encased, it's probably not what I would call a sausage..."

What this dispute lacks is the dogmatic insistence of the pizza or BBQ wars.

Anyone who says that a sausage exists without a casing is an idiot, a madman, a fool, a poltroon. Indeed, this is so transparently obvious that advancing any other opinion is cause for medical intervention before the person doing so operates a car or other deadly machinery, no doubt killing dozens. Sausage must have a casing! Without casing it is mere unfinished sausage, existing in a limbo state of unsausageness. That this must be admitted by any well-informed person is obvious.

Mike G wrote:What this dispute lacks is the dogmatic insistence of the pizza or BBQ wars.

What about uncased sausage on top of a pizza? That's enough to make Mike G's head spin!

stevez wrote:

Mike G wrote:What this dispute lacks is the dogmatic insistence of the pizza or BBQ wars.

What about uncased sausage on top of a pizza? That's enough to make Mike G's head spin!

Ah but maybe the pizza sausage began in the casing, then got squeezed out onto the pizza! Mike G may now be satisfied.

(Sorry, I just could not resist!)

Regards,

Dear LTHForum,

Had the Memphis Special last night at Crust -- a Neapolitan pizza, extra thick, with sausage and BBQ sauce. When I asked what makes it so good, I was told they use org*nic liq*id sm*ke. Deelish!

cilantro wrote:I was told they use org*nic liq*id sm*ke. Deelish!

Cilantro,

The mere thought makes me shudder!

I've not been to Crust keep planing on going but life seems to get in the way. The Memphis Special, which seems an inadvertent insult to all things BBQ and the great city of Memphis in particular, makes my inaugural visit less likely to occur.

I should note I am not dismissing Cilantro's opinion of the pizza in question, over the course two hundred posts I've come to have great respect for their opinion and outlook, it's just that it's easier for me to believe the moon is made of white cheddar cheese than liq*id sm*ke, organic or not, was anything but retched.

Enjoy,
Gary

Not to worry, Gary. Real Memphis BBQ Pizza is made with wood-smoked pulled pork, not sausage. (I'm citing "The King,"* rather than the God [of Sausage] on this one.)

BTW, it was not I who dubbed Dr. Rust the "God of Sausage," but our own esteemed Dr. Bruce Craig. Far be it from me, a newbie in all matters sausage-related, to make such a proclamation.

What I do know, however, is that Burt's is the only Chicago-style pizza that is worthy of the name. (Thanks, MikeG. That felt good!)

*Colletta's Pizza in Memphis claims to have been, or to currently be (depending on who you believe) Elvis' favorite.

Hey! I could use my BBQ pit/pizza oven combo to make BBQ pizza!!!! Right after the monkeys fly out of my ass. Respect BBQ. Respect pizza.

Only if we have a big argument about what both bbq and pizza are first.

Let's call it BBQ-style flatbread and be done with it. OK, to be a little more fair, a cloying "BBQ" type sauce appears on the bizzaro chicken pizzas of Brasil. Then there's the CPK creation. There is precedent, albeit dubious.

So, I guess I just want to say, smoked-ish pork and sweet bottled sauce on some sort of flat bread is cool if that's how you want to live your life; it's just not right for me and my family.

This is only peripherally related to the sausage discussion here, but it is something that has puzzled me for years.

Me old dad, born in suburban London and a post-war immigrant to the US (I think he meant to go to the Bahamas and was always a bit disappointed to have landed in Chicago climate-wise, so he finally and happily retired to Florida, but I digress) always refused to eat ground meat. He said they could put anything in it, so you never knew what you were eating. I took him at his word and have always assumed this reflected some fear of eating either a different domesticated animal, say a dog or horse, or a concern about eating parts of the cow that he did not want to eat, but maybe I was wrong.

He was happy to eat sausage. As I have learned more about food over the years, it has become pretty clear that sausage contains a lot more "unsavory" stuff than hamburger in general, even if a good sausage is vastly preferable to almost any hamburger (IMO). Still, the whole thing has always stuck with me as a bizarre attitude and a bit of a mystery.

In the spirit of full disclosure, this was not the only bizarre, but strongly held, conviction of Dad's. Over the years I have come to understand that many of them did spring from the world view of pre-World War II England which can best be described as quaint, or maybe antiquated in many ways (the same probably could be said of the US and most other places, but in my interactions with older generation middle class Brits of the two generations preceding mine, they seemed particularly, even fiercely, attached to that long gone world and world view - clinging to the decaying empire, I guess) . And perhaps the simple explanation of this is that at some point there had been some unpleasant experiences with ground meat in the UK - Lord knows they have had enough beef issues over the last few years to put a few people entirely off that meat.

Anyway, I know other people who avoid sausage but will eat ground beef for either taste or perceived healthiness (hah!), but he is the only one I knew who swung this way.

Has anyone else run across this?

Your Dad would've loved Steak 'n Shake, at least in the early days. The founder created the slogan "In Sight, It Must Be Right" and the following (now most likely illegal) practice to allay fears like those your Dad, and many others, had about the provenance of ground meat. Specifically, the owner would bring in cuts of meat (including cuts of steak, thus the restaurant's name) and grind the meat, out in the open, in front of the customers, then he would cook and serve the "steakburgers." Now, the meat comes in pre-formed hockey pucks from who knows where; but there was a day ...

JimInLoganSquare wrote: Now, the meat comes in pre-formed hockey pucks from who knows where; but there was a day ...

I do not think that is correct. The last time I was in there a month ago, they dropped a ball of fresh ground beef on the grill and worked it out with the spatula.

jlawrence01 wrote:

JimInLoganSquare wrote: Now, the meat comes in pre-formed hockey pucks from who knows where; but there was a day ...

I do not think that is correct. The last time I was in there a month ago, they dropped a ball of fresh ground beef on the grill and worked it out with the spatula.

Fresh (not frozen) hockey pucks, but I seriously doubt they are grinding it onsite. Here's a quote from the Steak 'n Shake website:

Steak 'n Shake wrote:"The Steak stood for STEAKBURGER™ sandwich. Gus would wait for the busiest time in his counter-only restaurant, wheel in a barrel of steaks (including round steak, sirloin steak, and T-bones) and grind the steaks into burgers right in front of the guests. Hence, the origin of the famous slogan "In Sight It Must Be Right."

"The STEAKBURGER™ sandwich is still the finest burger served anywhere in the world-the finest of steaks ground into pucks, and through the art of grilling on a very hot grill, turned into a burger beyond comparison." (emphasis added)

Every time I've bothered to look over the 37+ years I've been eating at SnS, the meat came out of the cooler looking like a little ground beef hockey puck, which the grill person would smoosh down on the griddle with a spatula. Your guy may have mangled it a bit before dropping it on the grill?

I really don't think that I would like to see SnS personnel han-grinding burgers in the restaurants ... in fear of the finger parts that might also make their way into the meat.

jlawrence01 wrote:I really don't think that I would like to see SnS personnel han-grinding burgers in the restaurants ... in fear of the finger parts that might also make their way into the meat.

Really? I'd pay good money to see it. "In Sight, It Must Be Right ... Or Left."

Cathy,

Did anyone take video of the symposium?

Best,
Michael

eatchicago wrote:Cathy,

Did anyone take video of the symposium?

Best,
Michael

Yes, there was a person there who I believe captured the whole event; I think he was working under the direction of Bruce Kraig, but I'm not sure. At any rate, there is, somewhere, a video of this event.

David Hammond wrote:

G Wiv wrote:But liq*id sm*ke still tastes like crap, harsh acrid old cigarette ash like crap, and has no business in products meant for consumption by humans.

Must admit, GWiv has a point about the "cigarette ash" notes in a liquid smoke-treated product.

As someone who has accidentally eaten ash tray contents (as an adult), I can completely agree with Messers Wiv and Hammond.

Cheers,

-Andrew

eatchicago wrote:Cathy,

Did anyone take video of the symposium?

Best,
Michael

Hi,

Except for the Coney dog lecture by Bill Lockwood, the symposium was digitally taped. These will be for our archives, though they may eventually be available as podcasts.

Bruce's wife Jan Thompson teaches film production at Carbondale. The videographer was one of her former students.

Regards,