Nice language, seebee.

I'm not convinced that the fact that the dictionary reports a common usage should be taken as evidence of the correctness of that usage.

Anyway, I'm sure this point could be argued but it seems to me that "pizza" is used correctly, as a genus with many species such as "Neapolitan pizza," "deep-dish pizza," "froufy California new age pizza," etc. The common elements of flat bread, cheese, and baking are enough to allow for all those variations.

Barbecue, to me, is a cooking method for meat which has next to nothing to do with, say, potato chips sprinkled with an orange salty-sweet seasoning, or even the same meats prepared by an entirely different method and then dunked in an orange salty-sweet sauce. I recognize that this is a futile fight, and that millions of Americans have the notion that their potato chips have something in common with a whole hog cooked in a pit, but it isn't so, any more than Texas toast and Texas brisket have anything in common.

jbw wrote:
My point exactly. It's your definition, but others (including the dictionary) define it far more broadly. This is my take on the issue from a fairly extensive thread on another site:

"I've often heard it said on these and other boards that if there's no smoke, there's no BBQ. Well, one other barbecue locus where the smoke doesn't necessarily touch the meat is in the dictionary. This is how Webster's defines "barbecue":

"1 : to roast or broil on a rack or revolving spit over or before a source of heat (as hot coals)
2 : to cook in a highly seasoned vinegar sauce"

Now, I would never consult a dictionary to determine what constitutes good barbecue, but Webster's is a pretty good authority for language usage, and I think we spend a lot of time arguing over what is and is not "BBQ" when BBQ itself has become (and maybe always was) a fairly generic term.

No, I certainly agree in that a word means what a majority of people say it means. And dictionaries, being descriptivist by nature, reflect how the word is used in the general population. I mean, hell, I say "barbecue" when I mean "grill" sometimes because that's just how we talk in Chicago. "We're gonna have a barbecue" means a cook-out around here, generally.

However, it is always a question of "know your audience." Within a group of food specialists, I would expect the term "barbecue" to be used more precisely. There are many words which have a narrower definition when used by certain groups of people. I think in a food forum, it is certainly useful to keep such distinctions to avoid confusion. I also think, personally, that in the restaurant industry in general, it would be great if barbecue kept the more narrow definition simply because it's more informative to me than the expansive definition. As it stands, I have to ask someone when they've had "great barbecue ribs" whether they mean a) grilled ribs, b) braised ribs slathered in barbecue sauce, or c) slow cooked, wood-smoked ribs.

But, hey, that's language. I'm not about to try to change it.

I mean, hell, I say "barbecue" when I mean "grill" sometimes because that's just how we talk in Chicago. "We're gonna have a barbecue" means a cook-out around here, generally.

Binko,

No need to be apologetic. The first usage has been around, and not only in Chicago, for some time:

"1690 A. BEHN Widow R. II. iv. 356 Let's barbicu this fat rogue." (OED)

. . . and the second usage has a long history, and elsewhere, too.

"1809 W. IRVING Knickerb. IV. ix. (1849) 240 Engaged in a great ‘barbecue,’ a kind of festivity or carouse much practised in Merryland." (OED)

But notice that nobody says "we're going to have a barbecue" and then proceeds to do all the cooking indoors on the stove. Even if it's grilling rather than low and slow barbecue, they know "barbecue" means outdoor cooking over flame.

jbw wrote:No need to be apologetic. The first usage has been around, and not only in Chicago, for some time:

"1690 A. BEHN Widow R. II. iv. 356 Let's barbicu this fat rogue." (OED)

Oh, I certainly understand, and I didn't mean to come across as apologetic. I meant to say that even though I personally keep a technical distinction between concepts like "barbecue" and "grill," I will use the former in the less technical sense, depending on the audience. I'm fairly certain the word "barbecue" didn't mean very specifically low and slow over wood in the late 1600s, but that is what it means today to folks living out in BBQ country and to culinary specialists/geeks of all types.

I mean, it's obvious that today barbecue means anything from the above to merely "slathered in barbecue sauce." On a food-related message board, though, I would prefer the more precise definition be used, since it communicates more information. (To me, at any rate.)

But, like I said, if everybody uses "barbecue" to mean "barbecue-flavored," or "corrupted with Liquid Smoke," so be it.

Binko wrote:But, like I said, if everybody uses "barbecue" to mean "barbecue-flavored," or "corrupted with Liquid Smoke," so be it.

So be it


Not while I still have a single breath left in my hickory smoke preserved body.

G Wiv wrote:

Binko wrote:But, like I said, if everybody uses "barbecue" to mean "barbecue-flavored," or "corrupted with Liquid Smoke," so be it.

So be it


Not while I still have a single breath left in my hickory smoke preserved body.

Fight the good fight, Gary, we're behind you all the way!

(Unfortunately, in the popular lexicon, 'round these parts at any rate, the fight appears to be lost...which is why I'm adamant about keeping the more technical meaning alive in fora like this. It is a useful distinction, and it keeps the traditional meaning, and part of our country's history, of American barbecue alive.)

Ill chime in on the bbq debate.

For me, my friends, and family if I say I am serving ribs, brisket, etc they know it is going to be prepared in the smoker or bbq.


When I have guests over:

I either tell them I am firing up the smoker if I am doing some bbq,

or

I tell them I am firing up the grill if I am doing steaks, etc.

I cringe when I hear any item cooked on a grill, or slathered in bbq sauce being called bbq, it isnt in my world.

To me, bbq is only:

meat cooked slow and low, in a smoker, using wood. Thats it.