Hi- I just posted on the trib local site, concerning Ms. Week's article, and I reiterated the fact that they could buy the animals at auction, if they wanted to rescue them, and somebody just posted that they did not want to buy the animals at auction, because that would just perpetuate the violence.

I also mentioned the fact that a person can eat a small amount of chicken and seafood, and still have a very healthy diet. I mentioned that smoking and being overweight, contributed much more to disease than eating meat. The guy at least admitted that you could eat a healthy diet with a small amount of meat, but then he came back to the fact that the animals suffered when we slaughtered them.

I don't see any animal activists from Glenview posting anymore. They all seem to be from out of state. If we have any residents of Glenview on our board, it might help if they wrote a post in favor of the 4-H program on the trib site.

I pointed out in my comment that the 4-H program is operated by the University of Illinois, which is tax payer supported. Why aren't they trying to prevent all the 4-H animals at the fair from being slaughtered?

I am surprised that none of the animal activists have posted on this site. They probably don't know about it. Hope this helps, Nancy

How about the fact that there is way more taxpayer funding for slaughter of animals through ag subsidies?

Hi- I just checked thehttp://eyeonwagnerfarm.com site, and Debbie Rubenstein's Wagner Farm rescue group is threatening legal action if the 4-H puts the animals up for auction. It sounds like they already have a lawyer. BTW- Ms. Week's just posted a comment by Debbie Rubenstein on the trib site. Apparently Ms. Rubenstein got banned from that site.

In the small town that I come from in Michigan, the rod and gun club has put up a target practice area, which has temporarily been closed down by the township, due to complaints of noise from the neighbors. I read the comments concerning this left by readers of the Herald Palladium in St. Joe, and most of the people who left comments were card carrying members of the NRA. There was a lot of comments about it was their constitutional right to own a gun, and hunt. It was the complete opposite of the crowd picketing Wagner Farm. Hope this helps, Nancy

Admittedly, judges can do anything, for a little while anyway, but I'd sure be curious what possible legal grounds there are for preventing the sale of livestock between two private parties (for all the ranting about taxpayer money from the Californians posting on those stories, the animals and their feed are all paid for by the parents involved in 4-H; Glenview has as much legal claim on your animal as they do on your car when you park in a city lot.)

Anyway, I decided their favorite media site could stand to host the other side of the story.

I am guessing that the whole thing is a media ploy from start to finish, much like the "unhappy meals" staged by PETA a while back. Children are involved, and that generally brings press whenever it is politicized. Also, I'm guessing Glenview was the only 4-H-hosting community that had enough active PETA-type folk to start a protest (even if it is only two.)

Hi- Having grown up in a rural area, I can tell you that there are 100 times more NRA supporters in the rural areas of Illinois, then there are PETA supporters.

At the community garden I rent in Evanston, we have all kinds of problems with too many deer that love to eat my plants. The deer really do not belong there, but the city can not cull them because of the animal activists, and they cannot relocate them because the deer probably would not survive the trip. The city cannot afford the expense of relocation right now anyway. Hope this helps, Nancy

The saga continues. New story on Trib Local:

Wagner Farm animal auction spurs protests

Hi,

At 1668 words that is pretty hefty by TribLocal standards. I wonder if it will end up on the mothership Chicago Tribune.

Regards,

This one is written by an actual Trib employee, it seems.

Hi- Did this one appear in the print version of trib local, or only online? Since it was written by one of their reporters, one can hope that it will appear in the print edition. I noticed that there was finally one negative comment towards the animal activists.

How can they say that the slaughtering house is operated like a factory farm when they have never seen it? I wonder if they are going to picket at both the farm and at the fair now? I am afraid that they are going to be back next year too. Thanks, Nancy

NFriday wrote:How can they say that the slaughtering house is operated like a factory farm when they have never seen it?

How can they even know what slaughterhouse an animal is going to until it is purchased and the new owner decides where they want to send it?

On Thursday, Rubenstein’s lawyer, Gary Shulman of Levun, Goodman and Cohen LLP, sent a letter to the Glenview Park District and the village of Glenview calling for Saturday’s auction to be stopped and for the animals to be sent to a sanctuary in Madison, Wis....

Shulman said he had no knowledge of families purchasing the animals.

Here's what I heard tonight. One of the 4-H parents is an attorney and contacted the vegetable attorney when he was threatening to attempt to stop the sale. The vegetable people had misrepresented to him that the animals were paid for with tax dollars or some such. In fact, as I can state from personal experience, they are paid for by the parents, who have to further pony up (so to speak) for a share of the feed and other supplies when the program's costs are calculated.

When the vegetable attorney learned the reality from the 4-H parent/attorney, he backed off any attempt to stop what is, as I noted before, a private transaction, and reportedly apologized for the trouble his client had made him stir up....

Beautiful day at the fair, the auction prices were low and there were few bidders (a reflection of the economy) but the kids were excited and had a great time. Word was that there was a somewhat larger contingent of protesters at Wagner Farm but they never showed at the fair. A couple of politicians showed, and Mark Kirk had his pictures taken with 4-H kids (Glenview is his district though Grayslake is not). Myles talked to him for a minute. So far, the Glenview vegetarian vote does not seem to be a serious bloc to go after, compared to the Lake County Fair Incredibly American-Looking Farm Activities contingent.


Evidence of non-vegetarian sentiment in the area.

So every time I go to the Fair, I learn more of the story.

One of the few agitators to actually have a connection to Glenview was, it seems, one of the ones who helped Glenview get Wagner Farm, a decade ago. And for a while, the older animals would go to her "sanctuary" aka farm near Madison. But when Todd, the Wagner Farm director, started a 4-H club several years ago, that changed things and pushed her out of the picture. And so this is all born out of her resentment at no longer being front and center of attention as the animal rescuer, but rather, seeing a program for the kids be the primary focus. So now she's lashing back by agitating against 4-H.

That this is likely to be an uphill battle, to say the least, is reflected not only in the enthusiasm of the kids and the crowd for the auction, but in evidence such as this barbecue stand's slogan:

The latest in the comment thread:

On 7/31/10 at 11:11 PM, Janet Weeks wrote:
Where are the animals now? Have they been taken from the fairgrounds? What will happen to them next? Please answer these questions. Many people from Australia to the UK and all across the US are asking. I think we deserve to know. Thank you.

Okay, so Australia, a country of 10 times as many sheep as people, is dying to know what the hell happened to a dozen 4-H lambs in Illinois? Riiiight. No, madam, you don't deserve to know, you deserve a kick in the behind. Go to your nearest grocery store and weep in the meat department at the silence of the shrinkwrap. Jesus H. Christ.

Anyway, I don't intend to do anything to keep this ninny further informed, and I suggest no one else does, either.

Hi- Ms. Weeks and her friends are still going on about the fact that the kids should have been taken to the slaughterhouse, to see what would happen to their animals.

They must have published that article in the print edition though, because there are a lot more pro 4H people posting this time, and a few of those people are also acting inappropriately. Kind of rubbing it in the activists face. If all these meat lovers quit posting, maybe Ms. Weeks and her friends will go away. I think I am done posting over there. They just don't want to listen to what I have to say. Thanks, Nancy

Hi- Here are some other comments I just ran across. Probably 90% of the comments here are pro 4-H. There are also quite a few people here that are disrespectful to the activists. http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/07/protesters-to-target-4h-livestock-auction.html

Ye gods those people like to talk. To themselves.

For all their self-congratulatory (insert similar rhyming word) ranting, not a single one of them attended the auction or the loading of the animals the next day.

But the kids had a great time and a great fair. From what I saw, most of them would have relished a chance to tell the protesters off about how they're ignorant, brainwashed and abused.

UPDATE: Their Facebook page just invited me to "stay tuned" for something at 12:30 today. They're probably planning a very stern post on the issue.

Yeesh. If you eat meat, the animal never survives the operation. I remember all the names of the cattle we raised and enjoyed for dinner. I still toast "Ella" as one of the best sides of beef I ever ate from.

Hi- The Wagner Farm Rescue group does not want to give up. They are holding another protest this Saturday, 8/7 from 9:00am-11:00am at Wagner Farm. It seems like they are never going to give up. Over on the trib local board they say that they are not forcing people to give up meat, and they are only educating people about the evils of meat consumption. If that is the case, then why are they refusing to let the subject die. I just do not understand why supposedly a total of three Glenview residents that are protesting this, think they can force everybody else in Glenview to support their views. Hope this helps, Nancy

Hi- I think Ms. Weeks and her friends have finally run out of steam. Nobody has posted in almost 2 hours. I wonder how many people they get to picket this Saturday? Hopefully, not too many. Thanks, Nancy

There's a new story here but they don't seem to have found it yet.

In other news, there's a new baby bull at the farm as of this morning. If you want to abuse your children by showing them a farm.

LOL - this reminds me of the time I took Sparky to Fair Oaks Farms to witness the miracle of birth. He was far more grossed out and sickened by the actual birth process than he was by the idea that the cute little baby bull was going to be sausages someday. (We got there just in time to witness the afterbirth, and it was admittedly gross - even for someone who's done it herself.)

razbry wrote:Yeesh. If you eat meat, the animal never survives the operation. I remember all the names of the cattle we raised and enjoyed for dinner. I still toast "Ella" as one of the best sides of beef I ever ate from.

Reminds me of a stunt a nephew pulled at his high school. He started to collect contributions for a rescue center for amputee chickens - you know, the ones that lost their wings for buffalo wings. He made up a compelling story thinking that noone would really fall for it ... He had ten or twelve contributions before anyone called him on it.

jlawrence01 wrote:

razbry wrote:Yeesh. If you eat meat, the animal never survives the operation. I remember all the names of the cattle we raised and enjoyed for dinner. I still toast "Ella" as one of the best sides of beef I ever ate from.

Reminds me of a stunt a nephew pulled at his high school. He started to collect contributions for a rescue center for amputee chickens - you know, the ones that lost their wings for buffalo wings. He made up a compelling story thinking that noone would really fall for it ... He had ten or twelve contributions before anyone called him on it.

LOL -- reminds me of this classic album cover . . .



=R=

Hi- I just checked the eye on Wagner farm site, and Ms. Rubenstein has an op-ed piece there, bringing up some things that were not mentioned in any of the trib articles. She said that her group actually offered to pay more up front to have the animals moved to a sanctuary, than what the kids got at auction. http://eyeonwagnerfarm.com. You can leave your comments there.

The postings on the trib local article that came out prior to the auction have considerably slowed down. Cathy was right in that the trib did not appreciate the fact that Ms. Rubenstein was labeling her articles as "special to the tribune". That was one of the reasons the articles got removed.

Animals can be slaughtered humanely, and the animal rights people do not want to admit it. On Temple Grandin's website, she says that animals can be slaughtered without feeling anything, if correct procedures are followed. Hope this helps, Nancy

The most interesting thing in it is the preface:

Despite whatever the individual perspectives are in regard to any of the parties involved in this issue, the core issue is the rights and welfare of the animals involved and how they must be upheld and protected.

1. So word is getting around that this is mainly about Ms. Rubenstein's ego-driven fight over who's the big cheese of Wagner Farm, more than the animals, and they feel they have to defend against that perception.

2. No, actually, the core issue for the parents who pay for 4-H is their kids having an experience they feel is valuable and educational (which includes it being humane, necessarily, but is not driven by that alone). And that's why the parents aren't interested in you, Ms. Rubenstein, who've never picked up a pitchfork once for these animals or these kids during the run of the program, deciding how it's going to be run, and to what end. Who the hell are you to tell us what we have to do?

NFriday wrote:She said that her group actually offered to pay more up front to have the animals moved to a sanctuary, than what the kids got at auction.

If only there were some system by which she could have raised her hand and expressed her desire to pay $1 more than anyone else for those animals.

What kills me about all of this* is her insistance that the kids witness the slaughter. Whether that's a good idea or not, I can't help but believe that if any parents did this, she'd be the one trying to get said parent arrested (or at least publicly shamed) for bringing their kid to a slaughterhouse. I can see her Trib Local headline now... "Heartless parents force innocent children to watch baby animal massacre!"

-Dan

* Ok, that's a lie - this whole thing pisses me off.

dansch wrote:

NFriday wrote:She said that her group actually offered to pay more up front to have the animals moved to a sanctuary, than what the kids got at auction.

If only there were some system by which she could have raised her hand and expressed her desire to pay $1 more than anyone else for those animals.

What kills me about all of this* is her insistance that the kids witness the slaughter. Whether that's a good idea or not, I can't help but believe that if any parents did this, she'd be the one trying to get said parent arrested (or at least publicly shamed) for bringing their kid to a slaughterhouse. I can see her Trib Local headline now... "Heartless parents force innocent children to watch baby animal massacre!"

-Dan

* Ok, that's a lie - this whole thing pisses me off.

Two things:

First, broadcasting that you will top any bid can be, well, VERY expensive. A local state representative promised a 4-H parent and his child that he would buy the child's animal at ANY price. Where MOST of the hogs went for $3.50/lb, that pig went closer to $9.00.

Second, the Schaumburg park district butchers a hog a couple times a year, usually in front of a variety of children. I do not remember seeing any kids freak out as they dissect and butcher the hog. They think it is really cool. The parents generally are the ones that freak out.

In many cases, if you send the animal to a processor, you can generally watch the butchering process.

jlawrence01 wrote:First, broadcasting that you will top any bid can be, well, VERY expensive. A local state representative promised a 4-H parent and his child that he would buy the child's animal at ANY price. Where MOST of the hogs went for $3.50/lb, that pig went closer to $9.00.

Clearly announcing in advance would ruin it, I was just suggesting that she raise her hand like anyone else bidding in the crowd. If the life of these individual animals means so much to her (more than just a good PR opp), she could have gotten away with winning a life of freedom for the first few animals before anyone picked up on her pattern*.

jlawrence01 wrote:Second, the Schaumburg park district butchers a hog a couple times a year, usually in front of a variety of children. I do not remember seeing any kids freak out as they dissect and butcher the hog. They think it is really cool. The parents generally are the ones that freak out.

In many cases, if you send the animal to a processor, you can generally watch the butchering process.

I don't think I suggested that kids would freak out, just that I can see this woman using it as another PR opportunity for her cause.

-Dan

* or have another member of her cause do so, as she might be recognized, thereby giving away her intentions