Evil Ronnie wrote:For this old school working chef, it's hard to understand how so many of these tv contestant chefs have trouble cooking meat to a reasonable doneness and can't get potatoes cooked in six hours. WTF? We do beef and lamb rack events day after day for hundreds of members and guests at a sitting, and nail it every time.

I just don't get it.

Unfamiliar equipment, too many chefs in the room?

On the disbelief issue -- the thing here, and I may be stating the obvious so forgive me if you find this a ridiculous statement, but this not about cooking so much as it is about playing the game. It's a game. It's a hard game which involves little sleep, crazy competitors, tough judges, unfamiliar kitchens, hijinks and all in front of many cameras. All of these guys can cook -- they wouldn't have gotten cast if they couldn't. But the game is another thing entirely. Some people play the game really well -- and some don't. Simple as that. If you can keep up your cooking level and play the game pretty flawlessly -- then you win Top Chef. Which explains someone like Hosea Rosenburg.

You couldn't pay me enough money to do any of these reality contest shows but I sure do love to watch them. The good ones, anyhow.

Yeah...my first thought when I saw the posts coming in both for and against Ms. Terhune was that how she behaves in the relatively controlled environment of her own kitchen with her own staff and absolute authority is likely worlds apart from the environment in which she finds herself on the show. Only someone who actually worked for her could confirm or deny whether the show's portrayal is accurate. I certainly don't think you could determine it based on the game faces of her kitchen staff during service--at least I hope not

sundevilpeg wrote:

rickster wrote:

That chef from Sable is not coming off too well either, at least personality wise.

I am utterly baffled as to why the Magical Elves chose to give her - of all people! - the moustache-twirling villain edit.

NOTE TO SELF: NEVER appear on a competitive reality TV show!!

It's also the producers jobs to manufacture storylines during filming. They have access to the cast members 24/7, I doubt they sit around and wait for drama to occur.

I really wish Bev would have won last night just to stuff it in Heather's face.

Whether she was 'spun' to be the bad guy or not (or she is gracious to work with at a charity event), I think the tweets quoted earlier in the thread prove that she is not the most amiable person around. Not that a chef needs to be, but her attitude and the way that she seemed to deal with her situations on the show really turned me off from wanting to eat at Sable anymore. I don't have the abundant funds that some seem to have, so when I am eating out at a higher end restaurant I need to choose wisely. I've eaten and (more often) drank at Sable a few times, but I'm pretty sure that I'm done with the place. Too many other options.

Good riddance.

ziggy wrote:I really wish Bev would have won last night just to stuff it in Heather's face.

Whether she was 'spun' to be the bad guy or not (or she is gracious to work with at a charity event), I think the tweets quoted earlier in the thread prove that she is not the most amiable person around. Not that a chef needs to be, but her attitude and the way that she seemed to deal with her situations on the show really turned me off from wanting to eat at Sable anymore. I don't have the abundant funds that some seem to have, so when I am eating out at a higher end restaurant I need to choose wisely. I've eaten and (more often) drank at Sable a few times, but I'm pretty sure that I'm done with the place. Too many other options.

Good riddance.

i just don't understand this logic. The chef seems mean on tv so I will boycott her restaurant? Huh? Unless you have worked for someone or truly know them (and I don't mean "know" them as a patron of their restaurant or through some other superficial connection), how would this be an influencer? Especially if you've eaten there and like the place? I might buy the logic that there are so many places to try in Chicago that this perception might be a reason to bump other places up but if you actually enjoy the place and would otherwise continue to do so, it seems kind of silly to think that your enjoyment of food and beverages would be impacted by the made-for-television view that you now have of Ms. Terhune. How in the world would that affect the dining experience? Are you worried that she's going to come out of the kitchen and glare at you? That her venom will seep into a dish? What??? Don't mean to be rude but I just don't get it

boudreaulicious wrote:

ziggy wrote:I really wish Bev would have won last night just to stuff it in Heather's face.

Whether she was 'spun' to be the bad guy or not (or she is gracious to work with at a charity event), I think the tweets quoted earlier in the thread prove that she is not the most amiable person around. Not that a chef needs to be, but her attitude and the way that she seemed to deal with her situations on the show really turned me off from wanting to eat at Sable anymore. I don't have the abundant funds that some seem to have, so when I am eating out at a higher end restaurant I need to choose wisely. I've eaten and (more often) drank at Sable a few times, but I'm pretty sure that I'm done with the place. Too many other options.

Good riddance.

i just don't understand this logic. The chef seems mean on tv so I will boycott her restaurant? Huh? Unless you have worked for someone or truly know them (and I don't mean "know" them as a patron of their restaurant or through some other superficial connection), how would this be an influencer? Especially if you've eaten there and like the place? I might buy the logic that there are so many places to try in Chicago that this perception might be a reason to bump other places up but if you actually enjoy the place and would otherwise continue to do so, it seems kind of silly to think that your enjoyment of food and beverages would be impacted by the made-for-television view that you now have of Ms. Terhune. How in the world would that affect the dining experience? Are you worried that she's going to come out of the kitchen and glare at you? That her venom will seep into a dish? What??? Don't mean to be rude but I just don't get it

I refuse to see any movie with Ralph Fiennes in it, because he was such a bastard to that poor Harry Potter.

I get it. If I know somebody is a jerk, I'd prefer that I don't spend my few fine dining dollars in their restaurant. Many years ago I worked in the kitchen of a very well regarded North Shore restaurant. The chef was constantly yelling. He didn't even yell at me, but it didn't make for a pleasant work environment.

Ziggy said:

I really wish Bev would have won last night just to stuff it in Heather's face.

I will just say that if Bev found that working with Ms. Terhune so horribly traumatic, perhaps that explains why working under Sarah Stegner at the Ritz-Carlton didn't work out so well for her, either. . .

ziggy wrote:...I think the tweets quoted earlier in the thread prove that she is not the most amiable person around.

Since when do we decide where to eat based on the amiability of a chef? Is Tom Colicchio amiable? Is Emeril amiable? How about Grant Achatz? What about his partner, Nick Kokonas? Richard Blais' TV persona was far from amiable. Ditto with those Voltaggios. Why is the personality trait of amiability in focus so much with Heather Terhune in particular?

knitgirl wrote:I get it. If I know somebody is a jerk, I'd prefer that I don't spend my few fine dining dollars in their restaurant.

But how do you know she is a jerk? From the editing of a cooking show? From tweets of others you don't know? From the gossip of the foodie world?

Or is it because you once worked for another chef who was a jerk? If that's your rationale, you'll likely need to:

a) Stay off the Internets and LTH because you'll likely find out that someone out there thinks that MOST chefs are jerks at some point (not that they are, only that someone somewhere thinks they are) and then you won't be able to eat out

b) Find the nicest person that you know, send them to chef school and fund the opening of their restaurant so that you can guarantee a dining experience without any jerky chef possibilities

or....

c) Realize that this is incredibly silly because you don't know these people, 99% of the people commenting on this issue don't know these people and, even if it's true, if said jerky chef still ensures that your dining experience is a great one and isn't abusing his/her staff in your presence or in the presence of others whom you know (which would likely lead to a poor dining experience anyway), acknowledge that you are receiving the value of your hard-earned restaurant dollars.

The choice is yours

And, by the way, I am NOT Ms. Terhune, don't know her, don't know anyone who knows her (at least not to my knowledge) and was/am not, as it happens, a huge Sable fan before, during or after this ruckus.

And yet somehow a raging asshole like Steve Jobs becomes practically a saint.

This is all very silly. Judging someone by how they appear on a (heavily edited) reality show is completely ridiculous. If you don't want to eat at Sable because of this, fine.

I don't know Heather personally but I've had a few interactions with her. From my experience she's always been extremely friendly and even provided a very nice donation for a not-for-profit that I work with.

Amiable was obviously not the perfect word but I was trying to be somewhat polite. Why would I want to give my money (indirectly or not) to a complete bitch? Which is how she came off on the show, and embraced with her tweets. Like I said above, a chef doesn't need to be nice or amiable or whatever, but with all the other options in this city and limited funds, I'd prefer not to give my money to her.

I've been there before, but I don't find the food mind blowing at all. I'd like to try other things. Also, I never said that I'd never go there again. But If I'm looking for that (general) type of food in that area, I'll be at Purple Pig instead.

Even if it's not the most sound logic, it's how I choose to spend my dollars. It's the same logic used in refusing to buy a jersey or anything else when my favorite football team picked up Terrell Owens. I have better things to spend my money on than those that I perceive (correctly or not) as self centered assholes.

ETA: Yeah, I'm sure that most/a lot/some chefs are total assholes. But they all don't go on reality shows to demonstrate that. She did. She had to know that her brand was on the line. But what it boils down to is your last post. Wasn't a huge fan, what she displayed made me less of a fan.

I had a whole response typed and it disappeared. I agree with Ziggy. I have a very limited budget for dining and I prefer not to reward jerks. I was thrilled when Stephanie Izard won and she always came off as a complete professional and a nice person. Same with Harold Dieterle. Blais and the Voltaggios, Colicchio and Emeril come off as intense, but not bullies. Terhune comes off as a bully. I'm sure the whole Chicago contingent will get increased traffic in their restaurants. I will be a lot more likely to go to Spiaggia or Aria or Moto than I would be to go to Sable.

For the record, though I understand why some wouldn't, I'd still be perfectly happy to eat at Sable. I wasn't trying to kick off a Heather Terhune pile on (though I probably should have seen that coming). I was simply trying to address the editing by pointing out that rather than assume she was misrepresented by way of a villain edit, it's not absurd to consider the possibility that she was captured quite accurately, and her Twitter activity actually seems to support that. Undoubtedly, not every person who acts like a jerk on Top Chef is a sweet and wonderful person whose persona was twisted by creative editing. Some of them were just jerks that day. The editing isn't always a lie.

That's the point I was trying to make.

I'm guessing there are far more contestants who come off a lot nicer than they actually are than vice versa.

Knitgirl, not to pick on you, but of the group you named in the "nice" column, there are several whom I've experienced or witnessed being not-so-nice first hand. Yet I still wouldn't claim to "know" them nor would I hesitate to go to, say, Perilla again if someone proposed it.[*]

[*]as it happens, I didn't love it either but only because the food was a bit underwhelming, not because the little guy was kinda rude to some "fans" who tried to talk to him sitting at the end of his own bar during service

I'll be dining with friends at Sable next week - it's a great spot for a fun meal - and look forward to seeing Chef Terhune since she always has a hello for each table.

I not only have never seen her be a bitch nor yell nor in any way come even close to the tv portrayal, I'm most bitchily tired of the way a woman chef is vilified while so many male kitchen curmudgeons are idolized.

ziggy wrote:Amiable was obviously not the perfect word but I was trying to be somewhat polite. Why would I want to give my money (indirectly or not) to a complete bitch?

What is the basis for her being a complete bitch?

What if, for example (and I'm just making this up), the program did not show Beverly crying, acting the victim, and openly comparing Heather's conduct to her allegedly verbally abusive ex-boyfriend's? What if Beverly stood there at judges' table, shoulders squared, dry-eyed, and defended herself? Would you still think HT was a "complete bitch" then? What if, in response to HT calling her out at judge's table two weeks ago, Beverly turned around and told HT to f*ck off? Would you think HT so much of a bitch then, or would the "bitchiness" cancel each other out? What if you were to learn that, for example (and again, I'm just making this up), Beverly stonewalled Heather in the kitchen, called her names to other cheftestants off-camera, and cried anytime someone tried to get her to do anything? Would you still think HT a complete bitch for calling her out on that?

What I'm trying to say is, there's a whole lot you don't know, and before you or anyone else says, "Oh, I would never act like that," I'd like to see you compete in a high-pressure situation and never lock horns with anyone, drop a swear or get frustrated. HT is an executive chef, a position you generally don't get by winning a popularity contest, because well, you have to do a lot of unpopular things to get the job done. I don't think anyone would be surprised to hear of CEOs, Donald Trump, or even coaches of college or professional sports teams cracking the whip in a manner not unlike HT's (or at least what we saw of it on Top Chef) --so I don't see why this is a special situation deserving of attention.

I don't mean to pick on you, Ziggy, but if that's how you feel, you probably should stop buying Apple products, and even Coca-Cola, as I'm sure the CEO has screamed worse things to his VPs during crunch times.

Look, I know how it goes. I'm in production management, and I would consider myself an asshole a lot of the time. But I am not putting myself on television in these situations to be judged by the public. She did and I have judged her. Simple as that.

But to talk to your scenarios. Yes, in most of the instances I'd still think she is a bitch. Also, some of the things she was saying like "I don't want it to sound Asian... that's too Asian....I don't do Asian" was coming off to some people as borderline racist. Where it comes off as being a bitch (which I'm speaking to), is you are on a team, you compromise.

You can pick on me all you want. Is it what it is. She came off as a bitch/bully/not a team player in the situations she was put it on the show. I am glad she is off the show. The way she acted (or was portrayed) on the show has lessened the chance that I will patronize a restaurant that I wasn't too jazzed about the other times I had eaten small plates at.

Also, to your point about Beverly talking about her past, it made me think that she was blowing Heather's personality or whatever out of proportion. But her continued antics kept me from liking her or empathizing with her.

jvalentino wrote:Is it me or does each episode seem to have a fail w a chef from Moto? One where they were using a technique they've done 1000 times but adds little or nothing to the flavor of the dish?

I just found this in my file. I think that's what Chris was going for a few weeks ago. This was taken way back in 07 at an LTH dinner at Moto.



And speaking of quickfire challenges, when Cathy2 presented a tub of racoon meat to the folks at Moto (without advance notice, I might add) they came up with this dish on the fly.

ziggy wrote:Yeah, I'm sure that most/a lot/some chefs are total assholes. .

Well, I am an asshole, but I don't think I'm a total asshole.

(And I would be very upset if someone took 2 days to clean 200-300 how ever many shrimp!)

Evil Ronnie

And speaking of quickfire challenges, when Cathy2 presented a tub of racoon meat to the folks at Moto (without advance notice, I might add) they came up with this dish on the fly.

[/quote]

I've heard this dish referenced at least twice on this season of top chef, and once in a print interview for the show.

On the subject of jerk chefs- many great chefs are known for being a-holes. I've worked for lots of a-hole chefs. The only times i've held it against them is when their attitude seemed to serve their ego more than the food we were putting out, or I thought they were hack cooks, aka phonies, who hadn't "earned" the right to behave that way. If they are truely talented, I may not enjoy working for them, but they still have my respect.

HI,

As guilleless as I can be, I brought it for Hammond to try. Everyone else wanted a taste, too. If the front of the house guy had been dismissive or the Moto people declined to warm it (which was all I asked), the legend of the raccoon course would never have been.

Thank goodness people stepped up the plate and gave it a try.

(If you can find a link to the print article, I'd love to see it.)

Regards,

Great to learn ... and see the road kill dish!


Folks might find this interview with Heather Terhune informative ... for example see why the shrimp were discussed last week:
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Top-Chef-He ... 41078.aspx

Chef Terhune's behavior isn't going to have any effect on my frequency at Sable -- I just love that bar too much -- but I can easily see why it might for some people. There are so many choices out there and not enough time to hit them all. So, if her presented behavior on the show (and subsequent tweeting) is enough for some people to eliminate Sable from the pool of choices, that makes sense to me. If you can't hit them all, you have to find some way to cross a few off the list, and this seems as legitimate as any other arbitrary method. Most of us have to deal with people we can't stand in our professional lives (hell, some folks' livelihoods rely on this ), so it's perfectly understandable to me that people want to reduce such interactions in their personal lives.

That said, editing or not, chef Terhune had to understand that the comments she made (and backed up with tweets) weren't going to cast her in a very positive light. Is that bad for business? I guess time will tell but last time I spoke to someone from Sable (less than 2 weeks ago), business was booming to the point where it was nearly doubled on weeknights...and this is in December at a hotel restaurant. Anyone who agrees to participate on Top Chef must understand that it's a tremendous marketing opportunity, and it's not necessarily real life. On that basis, chef Terhune's behavior does seem like a misstep. While it's perfectly ok to "be yourself," it probably isn't the best way to maximize the potential benefits of appearing on the show. Nor does it seem like the best way to acheive the goal of winning the competition, either, because how one treats other contestants on the show does seem to have some bearing on the outcome.

=R=

As Blais put it (and I'm paraphrasing), not every contestant on the show understands that they've been handed a golden goose at the outset.

My personal opinion:

1. Graham Elliot is a dick.
2. My experience at his restaurant (right after opening) was OK, and it went on a "maybe I'll give it another shot in a year or two".
3. His being a dick keeps me from wanting to give him another chance to wow me.

However, if my experience at his restaurant were better, I suspect his being a dick wouldn't be a factor.

So, if you're going to be an asshole in public, have the chops to back it up. (I have no idea if Heather Terhune does or not).

That being said, I think this season is better than the last couple: We're seeing more opportunities to just make good food for a reasonable table of people, and fewer Top Caterer events, fewer gimmicks and twists (all-night Chili cooking excepted on both of those, obviously). The caliber of the chefs seems to be higher, and a loss seems more often to be a bad day than lack of talent (the dude who bought the pre-cooked shrimp was doomed the moment he bought 'em, but you haven't seen such boneheaded things since).

Heather Terhune is about the only one out there they've been able to edit any drama around -- there's no weepers, no visible public displays of affection (the continual documentation of John Besh crushes lets you know how desperate the producers are for personal dramas).

there's no weepers

Are we watching the same show?? Bev and Sarah have alternated uncontrollable crying jags in pretty much ep so far. Sarah weeping about her undead grandparents this week, Bev sobbing like mad at the rodeo (during the chili cookoff) for no apparent logical reason. . .yikes!