Binko wrote:

David Hammond wrote:I don't think it's fair to compare Old Style (a drinkable if undistinguished beer) with a WC "hamburger," which I will put right up there with the top three bad tastes of the last ten years. You like WC? Fine. We're at an impasse.

Nobody's trying to get you to like them, so I don't see what the impasse could possibly be, unless you are really being serious and not being a hyperbolic smart-ass about not understanding the concept of subjective taste. Somehow, I doubt that.

Okay, consider this. You made the comment about liking Old Style sometimes, which I get, but that you normally drink better beers. You're agreeing, then, that although OS is sometimes good, it's not generally as good as many of the small craft beers you prefer. I'd agree. There's a hierarchy of "goodness" in beers...and hamburgers. And way, way down at the bottom of the Great Chain of Burgers, there's WC.

I am very definitely struggling with the concept of how anyone, assuming they're in control of their senses, could enjoy a WC. There is no doubt some do.

stevez wrote:David,
I believe you forgot the most important ingredient when eating sliders at WC, and that is complete and total drunkenness.

Steve is right. You have to have a belly full of booze to digest the things. The few times I have eaten them sober, I lived to regret doing so. Apparently, the chain is experimenting with alcohol sales at some stores in Indiana. They totally understand the synergy.

Have you ever seen the WC employee magazine? They started publishing "The White Castle Official House Organ" in 1925. It is full of testimonials by people who have worked at White Castle for 30 years, relating how joyous and grateful they are for having dedicated their lives to White Castle Systems Inc. They do give their employees paid vacations; health, dental and life insurance; pension and profit sharing; and free meals while working. They also only promote from within, so even the company's executive officers began as fry-cooks. But, it comes off as being more cultish than Walmart. The White Castle website sums it up well by saying, "White Castle is more than a company. It’s an experience that transcends time, space and sometimes, rational thought." Spooky

BTW the trademarked spelling of their little burgers was originally "Slyders", but that never caught on. Now it is Original Slider®.

With all due respect Mr . Hammond, what is "shit" to you is actually food to millions of people in the world.
Consider yourself to be very lucky to be a "foodie" who can actually call food shit, shame on you.

foodmex wrote:With all due respect Mr . Hammond, what is "shit" to you is actually food to millions of people in the world.
Consider yourself to be very lucky to be a "foodie" who can actually call food shit, shame on you.

I fully recognized in the original post that some people don't have options, and my heart goes out to them; I am directing this screed to those who have options. I was in no way unclear about that. We have options; we are lucky, and I'm sure all of us are daily grateful for that.

You may dismount your high horse, now.

This thread adds five holes to the patty of my heart.

Once again, LTHForum exquisitely exposes the diversity of life and we are all reminded of how much better it is to celebrate our differences.

On the same day that President Obama comes out in favor of single-sex marriage rights, the Forum erupts in passionate dispute over the value of sliders in our lives. Some abhor them. Some worship them. We can all share our beliefs.

Is this a great country, or what?

jimwdavis wrote:Once again, LTHForum exquisitely exposes the diversity of life and we are all reminded of how much better it is to celebrate our differences.

On the same day that President Obama comes out in favor of single-sex marriage rights, the Forum erupts in passionate dispute over the value of sliders in our lives. Some abhor them. Some worship them. We can all share our beliefs.

Is this a great country, or what?

Yes, most definitely, and though I abhor them, if someone comes forth and actually admits to worshipping them, well, I'll buy that man (or woman) a slider!

David Hammond wrote:Okay, consider this. You made the comment about liking Old Style sometimes, which I get, but that you normally drink better beers.

Not quite. I said I normally drink microbrews. I prefer more malt and more hops in my beer, but I'm not saying they're somehow objectively better. I bring up Old Style specifically because it is a beer that other beer snob friends of mine look askance at me for drinking, even though I personally think it is a solid beer for its style. At the same time, my American Light Lager drinking companions look at me askance for drinking "heavy" beers like Guinness (which is not heavy at all) and can't fathom why in the hell anybody would enjoy an IPA. For them, a Miller Light is "better" than a Three Floyds Alpha King or even Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. (Most folks can at least agree on Anchor Steam.)

You're agreeing, then, that although OS is sometimes good, it's not generally as good as many of the small craft beers you prefer.

Once again, no I am not. It's not generally considered as good by the beer connoisseurs. I don't think it's objectively "not good" by any stretch of the imagination. In most cases, I simply prefer the taste of the other beers I like to Old Style. Some times, I want the Old Style. Some days you want an apple. Some days you want an orange.

There's a hierarchy of "goodness" in beers...and hamburgers. And way, way down at the bottom of the Great Chain of Burgers, there's WC.

Well, at the bottom of my chain is Burger King. WC runs middle-of-the-pack for me in general, upper middle for fast food, and top-of-the-line when I want a mini-burger of any sort (although I am intrigued by Powers.) I know, I'm crazy, aren't I?

As to why I like WCs, I already gave you a description of what flavors and textures speak to me, and how and why they work for me.

Count me as someone who loathes the White Castle sliders. I have fond memories of my father taking me to different fast food restaurants as a child (once or twice a month or so) and while never exciting food wise, the memories of bonding will last me a lifetime. I can count the number of times my father took me to White Castle on only two fingers. As a child I knew my complete aversion to them meant something, probably that I knew it tasted like utter crap but I didn't know how best to express those thoughts. Apparently, my father was not a fan because he never wanted to go back either.

Shortly after I began dating my husband several years ago, I had gotten my current job and my hours are primarily at night. One day he decided to buy and give me dinner for my break. You guessed what it was, some WC sliders. That night when I took my break and opened the bag, I smelled the most odious of odors. While sweet he thought of me, I never wanted to see this crap again. Ugh.. I didn’t have the heart to tell him thought but I was grateful he never got me any more.

One good thing about seeing a White Castle on the road, is you can pull up to their side doors and use their bathroom without the staff noticing. This has worked on numerous occasions for me when I have felt the urge and do not know where else to turn. That's all they are good for.

However, I have read about their history in the past and I do find the way the company is run to be quite interesting because they are a privately held company and have a nice family run story behind them. I do appreciate that.

stevez wrote:David,

I believe you forgot the most important ingredient when eating sliders at WC, and that is complete and total drunkenness.

.

Actually, if you took a nod from Harold and Kumar, you'd have to be stoned. I've been drunk lots of times and I DON'T think White Castle would help so much as make me even more nauseous.

And this is coming from a girl that enjoys her Old Styles from time to time.

Binko wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Okay, consider this. You made the comment about liking Old Style sometimes, which I get, but that you normally drink better beers.

Not quite. I said I normally drink microbrews. I prefer more malt and more hops in my beer, but I'm not saying they're somehow objectively better.

Because you couldn't say they're objectively better, right, because there is no such thing as objectivity in food judgements, right?

I've been thinking a lot about this conversation today, and I've come to conclusion that one reason some of us seek out authenticity in food (aside from our very real anthropological interest in foodways) is that it permits us to talk about food in a way that skirts evaluation (aside from vague statements about "deliciousness," etc.).

We do, however, tacitly or overtly subscribe to the belief that some foods are "better" than others. For instance, if I were arguing with a person who told me that a Kraft single is every bit as good a piece of cheese as, say, a slice of Pleasant Ridge Reserve, I'd say, "Sir (or Madam), you are incorrect. You may like the Kraft single, and you're entitled to your opinion, but it is not even cheese as I understand the term. You may prefer the Kraft single because your mom served it to you after school, and you have understandably warm memories of that, but this cheese food from Kraft is not as good, not anywhere near as good as this delicious slice of Wisconsin farmstead cheese." And I would not feel compelled to add the wishy-washy "In my opinion" or a "gosh, you know, that's just how I feel and I could be wrong."

KajmacJohnson wrote:However, I have read about their history in the past and I do find the way the company is run to be quite interesting because they are a privately held company and have a nice family run story behind them. I do appreciate that.

As do I, and individual franchises are family-owned, which is nice. If they made a delicious product, it'd be a beautiful story.

David Hammond wrote:

Binko wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Okay, consider this. You made the comment about liking Old Style sometimes, which I get, but that you normally drink better beers.

Not quite. I said I normally drink microbrews. I prefer more malt and more hops in my beer, but I'm not saying they're somehow objectively better.

Because you couldn't say they're objectively better, right, because there is no such thing as objectivity in food judgements, right?

I've been thinking a lot about this conversation today, and I've come to conclusion that one reason some of us seek out authenticity in food (aside from our very real anthropological interest in foodways) is that it permits us to talk about food in a way that skirts evaluation (aside from vague statements about "deliciousness," etc.).

We do, however, tacitly or overtly subscribe to the belief that some foods are "better" than others. For instance, if I were arguing with a person who told me that a Kraft single is every bit as good a piece of cheese as, say, a slice of Pleasant Ridge Reserve, I'd say, "Sir (or Madam), you are incorrect. You may like the Kraft single, and you're entitled to your opinion, but it is not even cheese as I understand the term. You may prefer the Kraft single because your mom served it to you after school, and you have understandably warm memories of that, but this cheese food from Kraft is not as good, not anywhere near as good as this delicious slice of Wisconsin farmstead cheese." And I would not feel compelled to add the wishy-washy "In my opinion" or a "gosh, you know, that's just how I feel and I could be wrong."

I don't want to be TOO relativist, but, no, I wouldn't compare Kraft and Pleasant Ridge. The former, as you say, is not a cheese. Kraft is fine as a prepared cheese product, and I will not accept anything else (except maybe Velveeta) when I'm making a grilled cheese sandwich. And, no, I would never have the gall to tell somebody that the only reason they like Kraft Singles is some bit of nostalgia. That's condescending as hell.

Judge to style and to expectations. Have you never recommended a place you actively dislike because you thought somebody else would like it? Maybe you're not like me, but I generally try to get a sense of a person's taste before recommending anything, unless they actually want to know what I consider good food. For example, if I know somebody likes fall-off-the-bone ribs, I'll send them to Gale Street Inn. You will never find me eating their ribs, I don't understand how anybody in their right mind could like that gelatinous, gooey crap, but they do. Like I said, who am I to say. So I send people their way, they come back with rave reviews, and then I might mention that I actually don't like those ribs (in nice terms), but I figured it might suit their tastes. That's the fun part of recommending food for me--trying to figure out what people might like, even if their tastes are 180 degrees from yours, and succeeding in it. Part of that requires a bit of empathy and the ability to imagine why somebody might like gelatinous, gooey ribs. Despite me saying I don't understand it, I could see what people like in it. Just like I hate Burger King with the fire of a thousand suns, I get that some people like that faux-smoke flavor to them.

David Hammond wrote:You may like the Kraft single, and you're entitled to your opinion, but it is not even cheese as I understand the term. You may prefer the Kraft single because your mom served it to you after school, and you have understandably warm memories of that, but this cheese food from Kraft is not as good, not anywhere near as good as this delicious slice of Wisconsin farmstead cheese." And I would not feel compelled to add the wishy-washy "In my opinion" or a "gosh, you know, that's just how I feel and I could be wrong."

But it might be politic to stop short of saying, "and there's something wrong with you if you like it." Not just, "there's something wrong with you if you don't agree with me that real cheese is better than Kraft singles," but rather, "there's something wrong with you if you like Kraft singles."

David, I think this conversation quickly got testy because you disparaged the people who like the food rather than limiting your disparagement to the food itself. It should be noted that you did already apologize for that. But unless I missed it, no one disagreed with you about "real cheese" [a "craft" burger from Kuma's or Paradise Pup or Edzo's or such] being better than "Kraft singles" [White Castle sliders].

I personally don't care about White Castle sliders one way or the other. I just think the conversation got off on a bad foot.

I guess the moral of this thread could be do not feed the troll White Castle sliders!

I actually can take or leave White Castle, now, but there was a time in my life when that was different. Here then is the true moral of this thread; take note.

As a kid, I actually sort of trained myself to eat White Castles. That's right, induced it on myself, willingly. Why and how did this occur?

Indianapolis was one of the first outposts of the White Castle empire after it expanded from its Wichita origns. Point of fact, my dad ate them as a kid in Indianapolis in the 1930s. (A digression: My dad's memory was that back then, they were more like a real hamburger than the strange little spatula cozies of today). I thought it was odd that he might praise the things, because my first go-around with them was anything but enjoyable; tasted like steamed meatloaf, actually, and not very good meatloaf at that.

So, although my first taste of a White Castle resulted in revulsion, I blamed myself, and went into training mode to try to like the things. Well, it is like this. Like your first marriage, perhaps you can convince yourself of anything for a while. But this felt real! I actually liked, even craved White Castle! I asked to be taken there after visiting the doctor. I had a favorite order (three hamburgers, fries, Coke). By the time I was in junior high, my mom was, at my insistence, bringing home White Castles to store in the freezer, and I would nuke one or two as an after school snack pretty regularly.

Later, White Castle started selling them prepackaged in the grocer's freezer section, and my perverse love affair continued into college. Because White Castle was more regional back in the 1980s, they had not broken into the Virginia market yet; but then one fateful day I found the frozen buggers for sale at the Williamsburg Safeway, and I bought a pack. Soon, my friends were all hooked. Did we smoke more weed or drink more Milwaukee's Best than the average liberal arts undergraduate at William & Mary in the mid-1980s? I would wager not.

Anyway, David, the moral of this story is that you can only enjoy White Castle if you do so to win your father's love. Alternatively, it works if they are a novelty, you are stoned, and you are attending college in Williamsburg, VA, therefore having nothing else whatsoever to do with yourself. Since none of these preconditions were met for your maiden voyage with White Castle, your disappointment is understandable.

Anyway, David, the moral of this story is that you can only enjoy White Castle if you do so to win your father's love.

At this moment, a poem ("poim") seems fitting to break the tension in this loopy discussion:

Around Midnight
I.

I stumbled out of bed,
muscles weak from dream paralysis,
My bare feet near-cramping from cold,
wishing for a warm woolen cocoon.
Because, even on school nights,
sometimes my father
came home from working second shift
with a bag of sliders
(greasiest of burgers!)
and faintly sweet-smelling onion rings
We all -
father brother mother sister
awakened for the feast,
dipping in ketchup onion rings
which unraveled translucent and thin from inside their brown breading,
after which, satisfied,
we brushed our teeth, washed our faces,
and had strange dreams.

Jim, thank you, for poignantly making the point that love of WC must be attributable to something other than taste.

lemoneater, thank you, you made my day with that poim, which carried through the same theme.

Bravo, lemoneater, bravo. Nice ear for words.

Santander wrote:This thread adds five holes to the patty of my heart.

When are we bringing back banner quotes?

Well done, lemon eater. For my White Castle poem (based on a true story), I'll channel e.e. cummings:

Code: Select all

              why
?    ?   ?  ? ??

                      did i stop at
W H IT E CA S T LE

     forlunchwhileona...............
                            l  o    n      g
                            road trip

?


    (
i hope this truckstop has a clean bathroom
                                     )

Spleen and invective aside, this thread certainly has sparked an unusual degree of creative expression.

I like Taco Bell, which someone above called crap. I remember ages ago, an LTH-er used to work at Taco Bell and said their meat was labeled Grade K...I wonder what grade White Castle uses?

I am Very Definitely Struggling

with the concept
of how

anyone could enjoy
a white castle

there is no doubt
some do.

Pie Lady wrote:I like Taco Bell, which someone above called crap. I remember ages ago, an LTH-er used to work at Taco Bell and said their meat was labeled Grade K...I wonder what grade White Castle uses?

Taco Bell is absolute trash. There is no way anyone with any vestiges of functioning tastebuds could possibly consider their product worthy of human consumption. Everything they make looks like donkey diarrhea slopped into a pathetic cardboard tortilla, topped with lettuce, tomatoes, and cheese that is apparently created by aliens with a replicator device that reproduces the outward appearance of food, with no regard to any other senses. Literal shit-on-a-shingle tastes better. Your attachment to them must be the result of childhood trauma, inattentive parents, heavy metal, occultism, masochism, communism, or excessive drug use, because there is no other explanation for enjoying their food-like stuff.

Binko wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:I like Taco Bell, which someone above called crap. I remember ages ago, an LTH-er used to work at Taco Bell and said their meat was labeled Grade K...I wonder what grade White Castle uses?

Taco Bell is absolute trash. There is no way anyone with any vestiges of functioning tastebuds could possibly consider their product worthy of human consumption. Everything they make looks like donkey diarrhea slopped into a pathetic cardboard tortilla, topped with lettuce, tomatoes, and cheese that is apparently created by aliens with a replicator device that reproduces the outward appearance of food, with no regard to any other senses. Literal shit-on-a-shingle tastes better. Your attachment to them must be the result of childhood trauma, inattentive parents, heavy metal, occultism, masochism, communism, or excessive drug use, because there is no other explanation for enjoying their food-like stuff.

Um, yikes. I think you forgot the smiley emoticon....

Hi,

My neighborhood Brown's Chicken was replaced by a Taco Bell. While it is not Mexican, I do have my soft spot for the double-decker Taco (soft taco with beans wrapped around a hard shell taco) and their Taco Supreme. That is all I like there. I will try some of their new offerings and almost always regret not getting what I know I like.

I have been to Chipotle twice ordering what a diehard fan loved there and did not like it.

I prefer Mexican tacquerias overall with three reliable choices nearby fortunately.

I still wish Brown's had not closed.

Regards,

Binko wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:I like Taco Bell, which someone above called crap. I remember ages ago, an LTH-er used to work at Taco Bell and said their meat was labeled Grade K...I wonder what grade White Castle uses?

Taco Bell is absolute trash. There is no way anyone with any vestiges of functioning tastebuds could possibly consider their product worthy of human consumption. Everything they make looks like donkey diarrhea slopped into a pathetic cardboard tortilla, topped with lettuce, tomatoes, and cheese that is apparently created by aliens with a replicator device that reproduces the outward appearance of food, with no regard to any other senses.

Well, I do prefer dingo dookie, but I take what I can in this crazy world.

Binko wrote:Literal shit-on-a-shingle tastes better.

Either you don't know the meaning of literal, or your parents are no better than mine. I'd love to hear this story. I love those soft tortillas, which taste not unlike the blankets my parents refused to tuck me in with.

Binko wrote:Your attachment to them must be the result of childhood trauma, inattentive parents, heavy metal, occultism, masochism, communism, or excessive drug use, because there is no other explanation for enjoying their food-like stuff.

I don't really have an attachment, I just occasionally feel like making a run for the border. But if you insist:
I was bullied a lot as a child, which led me to rock back and forth near the furthest tree on the playground, chanting Gordita Gordita Gordita; see above; I'm pretty sure Cannibal Corpse quero taco bell; maybe;
probably; definitely; I'm high right now.

I have never actually tasted one, though I remember being around some people who had picked up a bag of them - they smelled awful. Several years ago a book came out about how to approximate all sorts of fast food and packaged "foods". I heard that the recipe for the slider used jarred beef baby food. That is some nasty smelling shit, so I never felt the need to try a slider. I do however kinda like a whopper from time to time - probably once every 3 or 4 months. To go a bit OT, I was over at my brother's one day around lunch time and my sister in law offered me a hot dog - Oscar Mayer. The worst dog I ever ate, I might have taken 2 bites - it was so revolting. I imagine a WC slider is kind of the burger equivalent.

knitgirl wrote:I have never actually tasted one, though I remember being around some people who had picked up a bag of them - they smelled awful. Several years ago a book came out about how to approximate all sorts of fast food and packaged "foods". I heard that the recipe for the slider used jarred beef baby food. That is some nasty smelling shit, so I never felt the need to try a slider. I do however kinda like a whopper from time to time - probably once every 3 or 4 months. To go a bit OT, I was over at my brother's one day around lunch time and my sister in law offered me a hot dog - Oscar Mayer. The worst dog I ever ate, I might have taken 2 bites - it was so revolting. I imagine a WC slider is kind of the burger equivalent.

To me, all beef hot dogs taste the same. I guess I would be able to tell the difference in a side-by-side tasting.

I have to admit, though I abhor White Castle, I was surprised to find I liked this:
http://www.whitecastle.com/food/recipes ... castlerole
Get out your mixing bowls, Mr. Hammond! The LTH picnic is right around the corner.

Binko wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:I like Taco Bell, which someone above called crap. I remember ages ago, an LTH-er used to work at Taco Bell and said their meat was labeled Grade K...I wonder what grade White Castle uses?

Taco Bell is absolute trash. There is no way anyone with any vestiges of functioning tastebuds could possibly consider their product worthy of human consumption. Everything they make looks like donkey diarrhea slopped into a pathetic cardboard tortilla, topped with lettuce, tomatoes, and cheese that is apparently created by aliens with a replicator device that reproduces the outward appearance of food, with no regard to any other senses. Literal shit-on-a-shingle tastes better. Your attachment to them must be the result of childhood trauma, inattentive parents, heavy metal, occultism, masochism, communism, or excessive drug use, because there is no other explanation for enjoying their food-like stuff.

This guy wins the thread