LTH Home

Trib Local on 4-H at Wagner/Lake County Fair

Trib Local on 4-H at Wagner/Lake County Fair
  • Forum HomePost Reply BackTop
    Page 3 of 4
  • Post #61 - August 4th, 2010, 6:15 am
    Post #61 - August 4th, 2010, 6:15 am Post #61 - August 4th, 2010, 6:15 am
    jlawrence01 wrote:First, broadcasting that you will top any bid can be, well, VERY expensive.


    Perhaps if she kept her mouth shut and just bid on the animals without trying to grandstand for the press, she would be successful at a lower price.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #62 - August 4th, 2010, 9:41 am
    Post #62 - August 4th, 2010, 9:41 am Post #62 - August 4th, 2010, 9:41 am
    In the larger county fairs, you would go broke trying to buy all of the animals. In most fairs, certain businesses in the community (including supermarkets and the like), have specific quotas of what they are going to buy. For example, in my prior place of employment, we were instructed to buy one steer, two hogs, one lamb and a dozen chickens or ducks (in additon to what additional purchases the officers wanted to make). In most cases, we were purchasing animals reaised by employees kids in 4-H.

    What was really cool were all of the thank you notes, boxes of cookies and the like that we received from the young people from whom we bought them.
  • Post #63 - August 4th, 2010, 10:02 am
    Post #63 - August 4th, 2010, 10:02 am Post #63 - August 4th, 2010, 10:02 am
    Do the kids who raised the animals get the proceeds form the sale? I assume some part of the proceeds goes back to the 4-H for ongoing programs, but I certainly hope the kids get to share in some of the fruit of their work (since they probably won't get to partake of the actual meat).
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #64 - August 4th, 2010, 10:37 am
    Post #64 - August 4th, 2010, 10:37 am Post #64 - August 4th, 2010, 10:37 am
    stevez wrote:Do the kids who raised the animals get the proceeds form the sale? I assume some part of the proceeds goes back to the 4-H for ongoing programs, but I certainly hope the kids get to share in some of the fruit of their work (since they probably won't get to partake of the actual meat).

    Hi,

    I used to be on University of Illinois Extension's advisory council. The tradition has always been the kids received all the money. That does not mean unit leaders did not hope to get some of the money for their operating expenses. This is so embedded in the culture and tradition, I doubt there has been any change.

    The kids are known to solicit people to bid on their animals. It is surely where jlawrence01's local politician got over committed. It's one thing to bid, it is another to guarantee you will buy no matter the price.

    I heard on the radio recently of a farm kid who bought a home from savings. It was a rural area where housing is cheaper. Not only they bought the house, they rented it to a relative. I listened and silently said to myself, that money must have come from a 4-H ag auction accumulated over some years.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #65 - August 4th, 2010, 10:38 am
    Post #65 - August 4th, 2010, 10:38 am Post #65 - August 4th, 2010, 10:38 am
    Yes, the participants pay for the animal (frankly we get a deal on that, as these are very high quality lambs sold at a bargain price by a breeder who liked what he saw of the club a few years ago) and we pay for the feed and the veterinary care, but the kids (at least our kids) get the net proceeds. Last year Myles made several hundred bucks on his, this year, with lower prices at auction overall, it might be $200. The first year, with a lower quality breed, we lost a hundred or so. The kids who raise a steer can get significant college money, though, in five figures.

    This is why the claims of "taxpayer money" are basically BS. The only thing that is basically taxpayer paid for is the use of the shelter. Of course, the idea is that having our animals there is part of the benefit to the town of having Wagner Farm not be a housing development or a Menard's.
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #66 - August 4th, 2010, 11:14 am
    Post #66 - August 4th, 2010, 11:14 am Post #66 - August 4th, 2010, 11:14 am
    I love 4-H!
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #67 - August 4th, 2010, 12:56 pm
    Post #67 - August 4th, 2010, 12:56 pm Post #67 - August 4th, 2010, 12:56 pm
    Hi Cathy2- Here is the link to the article about the 4-H teenager buying the house.

    http://static.dispatch.com/www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/05/17/hog-wildnot-this-girl.html

    Yes, it was from years of money accumulated from auctions at the fair in Ohio. Her father also runs an auction service, besides his farm. and the house was purchased at an auction the father conducted. She only had to pay $40,000 for it. It was from an estate sale, and the family was probably anxious to sell it to settle the estate.

    I noticed that Ms. Rubenstein is asking people to contact Wagner Farm, to let them know that they do not want the baby bull slaughtered.

    The animal rights people have finally quit posting. I am sure that they are going to continue to picket for at least a few more Saturdays though. It sounds like the reason they did not bid on the animals was because of logistics. They would have had to arrange transportation of the animals, and placement at a sanctuary immediately. If they would have been allowed to buy the animals while they were still at the farm, they could have taken a few days to work out the details of the transfer.

    Hope this helps, Nancy
  • Post #68 - August 4th, 2010, 1:10 pm
    Post #68 - August 4th, 2010, 1:10 pm Post #68 - August 4th, 2010, 1:10 pm
    In other words, if the whole world had arranged things expressly to suit them and meet their demands, it wouldn't be necessary for them to expend so much energy calling us murderers and comparing us to every historical horror under the sun. Such a deal!
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #69 - August 4th, 2010, 1:39 pm
    Post #69 - August 4th, 2010, 1:39 pm Post #69 - August 4th, 2010, 1:39 pm
    NFriday wrote:It sounds like the reason they did not bid on the animals was because of logistics. They would have had to arrange transportation of the animals, and placement at a sanctuary immediately. If they would have been allowed to buy the animals while they were still at the farm, they could have taken a few days to work out the details of the transfer.

    Hi,

    I had wondered about that. I had lovely visions dancing in my mind of sheep running around the house dropping pooh bombs and squirts of pee. But hey, it's what you have to do when you're out to save the world (from itself).

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #70 - August 4th, 2010, 3:45 pm
    Post #70 - August 4th, 2010, 3:45 pm Post #70 - August 4th, 2010, 3:45 pm
    stevez wrote:Do the kids who raised the animals get the proceeds form the sale? I assume some part of the proceeds goes back to the 4-H for ongoing programs, but I certainly hope the kids get to share in some of the fruit of their work (since they probably won't get to partake of the actual meat).



    Definitely. Most kids who have raised animals annually since a young age have SUBSTANTIAL savings for college.

    I might add that it is necessary to raise a lot of college money as the children of farmers tend NOT to receive the same level of financial aid as others with similar income.

    The girl that bought the house in Ohio (for approximately $45k) had parents that agreed to pick up her tuition at the local extension of The Ohio State University.
  • Post #71 - August 4th, 2010, 5:52 pm
    Post #71 - August 4th, 2010, 5:52 pm Post #71 - August 4th, 2010, 5:52 pm
    Hi- People that grow up on farms, in general are unable to get any state or federal grant money for college. Besides factoring in the parent's income, they also factor in the $ value of the farm. This is even the case in a year in which the farm family has no income, or actually loses money. I think that they assume that because your farm is worth lots of money, that you can go to the bank, and get a loan, using your farm as collateral. Just because a farm is worth $2 million dollars, it does not mean that you can sell your farm very quick. I know people that farm, but have grown children that have no desire to take over the farm when their parents die or retire. There is nobody waiting in the wings to buy these farms either. Hope this helps, Nancy
  • Post #72 - August 4th, 2010, 9:25 pm
    Post #72 - August 4th, 2010, 9:25 pm Post #72 - August 4th, 2010, 9:25 pm
    Hi,

    Unfortunately, even if there is an interest to keep the farm in the family, inheritance taxes often kill that possibility.

    The people who farmed the land where the Lake County fairgrounds now reside lost the farm due to inheritance related issues. It was the non-farming family members who wanted to cash out. This combined with taxes does not leave people with too much choice, but to leave.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #73 - August 4th, 2010, 9:52 pm
    Post #73 - August 4th, 2010, 9:52 pm Post #73 - August 4th, 2010, 9:52 pm
    Hi- You used to have to pay inheritance taxes if the estate was worth over $600,000, and most semi large farms are worth more than that, but then they raised it to $1 million dollars specifically to help out farms.

    At least since the church got all the money, I assume that the Wagner estate did not have to pay any taxes on the $3.5 million dollars it received from the sale of the farm.

    Somebody that has a farm in the Chicago area, can make a whole lot more money selling it to developers than they can selling it as farm land. Thanks, Nancy
  • Post #74 - August 5th, 2010, 8:04 am
    Post #74 - August 5th, 2010, 8:04 am Post #74 - August 5th, 2010, 8:04 am
    NFriday wrote:Hi- People that grow up on farms, in general are unable to get any state or federal grant money for college. Besides factoring in the parent's income, they also factor in the $ value of the farm. This is even the case in a year in which the farm family has no income, or actually loses money. I think that they assume that because your farm is worth lots of money, that you can go to the bank, and get a loan, using your farm as collateral. Just because a farm is worth $2 million dollars, it does not mean that you can sell your farm very quick. I know people that farm, but have grown children that have no desire to take over the farm when their parents die or retire. There is nobody waiting in the wings to buy these farms either. Hope this helps, Nancy


    Nancy, this is not accurate.

    The instructions for filling out the federal financial aid for are here:
    https://studentaid.ed.gov/students/publ ... es5-2.html

    The relevant section for a family business, including a farm, is:

    91. Net worth of business and/or investment farm. Business or farm value includes the current market value of land, buildings, machinery, equipment, inventory, etc. Do not include your parents' primary home. Do not include the net worth of a family owned and controlled small business with not more than 100 full-time or full-time equivalent employees.

    Business/Farm Value - Business/Farm Debt = Net Worth of Business/Farm

    For business or investment farm value, first figure out how much the business or farm is worth today. An investment farm is a farming business where the parents do not reside on the farm, nor do they materially operate the farm.

    Business or investment farm debts are what your parents owe on the business or farm. Include only debts for which the business or farm was used as collateral.

    Subtract the amount of debt from the value. Indicate this amount in Question 91 for net worth of business and/or investment farm.


    (Boldface is mine.)

    Here is a more direct answer from Purdue's financial aid office:

    Q: Is there really a chance a farm family can qualify for student financial aid?
    A: Yes, ANY farm family should be able to create eligibility for AT LEAST low interest federal student loans by filing the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (the FAFSA). And some farm families may qualify for additional aid depending on the measure of their financial strength as calculated from FAFSA data. Keep in mind that the value of a family farm in which a family lives is NOT to be reported on the FAFSA.

    Q: Are children of farm families treated differently than any other children?
    A: No. In fact, farm families who live on the family farm are able to exclude farm-related assets when reporting the family's financial strength on the FAFSA.

    Q: How is a "family farm" different than an "investment farm"?
    A: A family farm is considered the principal place of residence and the family claimed on Schedule F of the federal income tax return that it "materially participated in the farm's operation." In certain instances, however, even if the family farm is incorporated and the family files a corporate return instead of IRS Schedule F, the value and debt of the farm are not reported on the FAFSA. In such cases, the applicant must show evidence that family members own all shares of stock in the corporation and that those family members also reside on the farm.


    If anything, the aid rules are more generous to family farms than to other types of family businesses.
  • Post #75 - August 5th, 2010, 8:27 am
    Post #75 - August 5th, 2010, 8:27 am Post #75 - August 5th, 2010, 8:27 am
    Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

    Unfortunately, even if there is an interest to keep the farm in the family, inheritance taxes often kill that possibility.

    The people who farmed the land where the Lake County fairgrounds now reside lost the farm due to inheritance related issues. It was the non-farming family members who wanted to cash out. This combined with taxes does not leave people with too much choice, but to leave.

    Regards,


    Very few farms actually pay estate taxes, even when the statutory exemption was $600,000. There are a number of specific exemptions for farms, esp if decedents -- I mean descendants! -- want to continue to run the farm.
    Last edited by Darren72 on August 5th, 2010, 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #76 - August 5th, 2010, 9:11 am
    Post #76 - August 5th, 2010, 9:11 am Post #76 - August 5th, 2010, 9:11 am
    Darren,

    Thanks! I guess it probably boils down to estate planning, succession and perserverance.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #77 - August 5th, 2010, 10:15 am
    Post #77 - August 5th, 2010, 10:15 am Post #77 - August 5th, 2010, 10:15 am
    Darren72 wrote:esp if decedents want to continue to run the farm.
    There darn well better be exceptions for zombie farming! :lol:
  • Post #78 - August 5th, 2010, 10:56 am
    Post #78 - August 5th, 2010, 10:56 am Post #78 - August 5th, 2010, 10:56 am
    pamiam wrote:
    Darren72 wrote:esp if decedents want to continue to run the farm.
    There darn well better be exceptions for zombie farming! :lol:


    Yikes! Thanks.
  • Post #79 - August 5th, 2010, 12:29 pm
    Post #79 - August 5th, 2010, 12:29 pm Post #79 - August 5th, 2010, 12:29 pm
    Hi- I am not saying that you cannot get low interest loans if your family owns a farm. I am just saying that it is very hard to get any grant money where you do not have to pay the money back. Out of the four of us, my brother was the only person that got any scholarship money to attend college. He got a small scholarship from Gerber via the National Merit program.

    The year we only had 7 peaches on our farm, I was finishing college, and one of my sisters was starting college. My sister graduated from H.S. with a 4.0, and she was unable to get any grant or scholarship money. When she went on to med. school, she was able to get a low interest federal loan to cover part of her expenses.

    I personally know somebody that had to pay estate taxes when you could only exempt the first $600,000. His father died unexpectedly in a farming accident, and the family had to sell part of the farm, in order to come up with the estate tax. It does help though, when all the assets are not in one persons name. In a married couple, it is better if all the assets are not jointly owned. Hope this helps, Nancy
  • Post #80 - August 5th, 2010, 1:02 pm
    Post #80 - August 5th, 2010, 1:02 pm Post #80 - August 5th, 2010, 1:02 pm
    Federal Pell grants use the same application as the direct loan program that I posted above. Private grants, funded by colleges, businesses, or other groups, can vary tremendously in their criteria. It probably isn't a good idea to generalize from a few examples to then say that the system penalizes people from farms. Similarly, it doesn't make sense to generalize from the experience of one family that paid the estate tax to then say the tax itself affects a lot of families. Nearly all families that have to pay the estate tax can easily do so out of liquid assets. That doesn't mean all families are in that situation.
  • Post #81 - August 5th, 2010, 1:05 pm
    Post #81 - August 5th, 2010, 1:05 pm Post #81 - August 5th, 2010, 1:05 pm
    Hi- Well Ms. Weeks and her friends have finally found the latest article on the trib local site. They are praising Ms. Rubenstein. I did not know that Dr. Martin Luther King, JR. was vegetarian though. Didn't he visit Edna's on at least one occasion? Edna's definitely was not vegan. hope this helps, Nancy
  • Post #82 - August 5th, 2010, 1:30 pm
    Post #82 - August 5th, 2010, 1:30 pm Post #82 - August 5th, 2010, 1:30 pm
    Similarly, it doesn't make sense to generalize from the experience of one family that paid the estate tax to then say the tax itself affects a lot of families. Nearly all families that have to pay the estate tax can easily do so out of liquid assets. That doesn't mean all families are in that situation.


    I think the point about the estate tax is that it becomes a threat to the survival of family farms when development gets close enough that paper land values shoot up even as the farm just keeps doing what it's always done. In a place like Illinois that only happens in a few collar counties, but it can be a real threat in areas where nearly all the farms coexist with extremely valuable non-farm property, like weekend getaway towns in Vermont, say, or wine country in California.
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #83 - August 5th, 2010, 3:27 pm
    Post #83 - August 5th, 2010, 3:27 pm Post #83 - August 5th, 2010, 3:27 pm
    Mike G wrote:
    Similarly, it doesn't make sense to generalize from the experience of one family that paid the estate tax to then say the tax itself affects a lot of families. Nearly all families that have to pay the estate tax can easily do so out of liquid assets. That doesn't mean all families are in that situation.


    I think the point about the estate tax is that it becomes a threat to the survival of family farms when development gets close enough that paper land values shoot up even as the farm just keeps doing what it's always done. In a place like Illinois that only happens in a few collar counties, but it can be a real threat in areas where nearly all the farms coexist with extremely valuable non-farm property, like weekend getaway towns in Vermont, say, or wine country in California.


    One of the special exemptions for farms and other family businesses is that they are allowed to estimate the net worth of the farm assuming that it continues to operate as a farm (referred as the "current use"), which may be a lot less valuable than the value of the land if sold to a developer (referred to as the "best or highest value use").
  • Post #84 - August 6th, 2010, 1:18 pm
    Post #84 - August 6th, 2010, 1:18 pm Post #84 - August 6th, 2010, 1:18 pm
    Hi- I just found out that they are picketing every Saturday from 9:00am-11:00am through 10/9. Ms. Weeks and her friends finally found the latest article at trib local. She posted a recipe last night for neat loaf made with tofu, and claimed that the 4-H kids would choose that over hog jowls.

    I bet if the kids were given the option, they would choose neither. The kids that Jamie Oliver worked with at Huntington, would have chosen the how jowls hands down. Hope this helps, Nancy
  • Post #85 - August 6th, 2010, 1:30 pm
    Post #85 - August 6th, 2010, 1:30 pm Post #85 - August 6th, 2010, 1:30 pm
    Her recipe sounds a lot like Nutraloaf.

    Once cooked, chilled overnight, and reheated, it looked fairly innocuous—probably not that different from a vegetarian meatloaf


    Taste Test: NutriLoaf, The Onion
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #86 - August 10th, 2010, 5:45 pm
    Post #86 - August 10th, 2010, 5:45 pm Post #86 - August 10th, 2010, 5:45 pm
    Hi- I just looked at the eye on Wagner Farm site, and they have come out with a mission to save the lives of all the animals at the farm, including the 4-H animals. They have now scheduled picketing every Saturday at the farm through 10/16.
    http://eyeonwagnerfarm.com
  • Post #87 - August 11th, 2010, 1:40 pm
    Post #87 - August 11th, 2010, 1:40 pm Post #87 - August 11th, 2010, 1:40 pm
    NFriday wrote:Hi- I just looked at the eye on Wagner Farm site, and they have come out with a mission to save the lives of all the animals at the farm, including the 4-H animals. They have now scheduled picketing every Saturday at the farm through 10/16.
    http://eyeonwagnerfarm.com


    Saturday's weather forecast:

    Cloudy periods, quite warm and humid. Several clusters of potentially active thunderstorms possible, any one of which may generate downpours. Southwest win

    Here's hoping it all converges, Joe Btfsplk-style, directly over their protests.
    Objects in mirror appear to be losing.
  • Post #88 - August 11th, 2010, 2:01 pm
    Post #88 - August 11th, 2010, 2:01 pm Post #88 - August 11th, 2010, 2:01 pm
    Yes- The protesters deserve something like that to happen, but Wagner Farm is also home of the Glenview farmer's market. I go to the Evanston farmer's market, rain or shine, but most people will not go if it is pouring rain. There is definitely a smaller crowd at the farmer's market when the weather is lousy, and the farmer's are forced to take home much of what they bring. Thanks, Nancy
  • Post #89 - August 14th, 2010, 3:48 pm
    Post #89 - August 14th, 2010, 3:48 pm Post #89 - August 14th, 2010, 3:48 pm
    Hi- Ms. Rubenstein is still at it. http://wagnerfarmrescuefund.blogspot.com/2010/08/bringing-clarity-of-truth-to-wagner.html. What I do not understand is that not all of her supporters are vegetarian, but they are all against the slaughter of animals at Wagner Farm. How can somebody say that it is okay to eat meat, but it is not okay to slaughter any of the animals at Wagner Farm? Comments on her site about that particular op-ed piece of hers are welcome.

    Now she is upset because she has learned that the cow that gave birth recently, is not owned by the farm, and thus she has no control over what happens to the baby bull.

    She claims that she is not giving up. At least the animal rights people have quit posting on the trib.

    Hope this helps, Nancy
  • Post #90 - August 14th, 2010, 10:05 pm
    Post #90 - August 14th, 2010, 10:05 pm Post #90 - August 14th, 2010, 10:05 pm
    NFriday wrote:How can somebody say that it is okay to eat meat, but it is not okay to slaughter any of the animals at Wagner Farm?

    Human beings are irrational. Once you understand this fundamentally, it helps explain a great many things that happen in the world.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain

Contact

About

Team

Advertize

Close

Chat

Articles

Guide

Events

more