ronnie_suburban wrote:I just don't like being beaten over the head by what I watch. It seems to me that that's exactly what GF is all about. I retreat from it without even making a conscious decision to do so.

GF wasn't made for guys like you. No shame either way. I don't watch that much of him either.

ronnie_suburban wrote:

boudreaulicious wrote:And if you find a television network that IS "sincere", I'd love to know what that is--I find the concept a bit hard to wrap my arms around

A great majority of the few food/cooking shows I watch these days are on WTTW/PBS (A Chef's Life, Pati's Mexican Table, etc.) and they come off as a lot more sincere -- certainly less marketing-centric -- than the programming and brands that are constant-casted via the Scripps Howard networks. Look, I understand that television is a commercial endeavor. I just don't like being beaten over the head by what I watch. It seems to me that that's exactly what GF is all about. I retreat from it without even making a conscious decision to do so.

=R=

this is a bit off topic but then again, this topic is a bit of a rabbit hole I think...anyhooo.

So what about Top Chef?? Every single item and contest is product placement now--but, personally, I still watch it and enjoy it. I don't love the crass commercialism but I just kick back and don't let it bug me too much. The competition is still fun. I think the Food Network's celebrity chef driven content isn't all that interesting to me, now that I get my restaurant and cooking advice from people I know. But it certainly was at one point, and not that many years ago. I think it's still engaging for a lot of people --I'm just not their market any more. I don't quite get the commercialism argument though. I don't see how TFN is any different than what you see on ESPN, NBC or Facebook. Maybe I'm missing something.

ronnie_suburban wrote:If it's true that Fieri isn't actually responsible for the content of DD&D, I find little about him to defend.

"If."

The contract stevez presented suggested little involvement from GF in content direction. That could be how it was and is.

But, Da Beef's boots-on-the-ground encounter with him at White Palace suggested GF was soliciting direction to cool local places and taking notes, which sounds like he took his job seriously. I'm pretty sure GF suggests content. Could be wrong, but makes sense as he's got a brand to protect.

boudreaulicious wrote:I don't quite get the commercialism argument though. I don't see how TFN is any different than what you see on ESPN, NBC or Facebook. Maybe I'm missing something.

I have equal disdain for the crap that gets rammed down my throat via those conduits, too. We just weren't talking about them.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

boudreaulicious wrote:I don't quite get the commercialism argument though. I don't see how TFN is any different than what you see on ESPN, NBC or Facebook. Maybe I'm missing something.

I have equal disdain for the crap that gets rammed down my throat via those conduits, too. We just weren't talking about them.

=R=

Aha! Now I know how you have time for all of your exploits

boudreaulicious wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

boudreaulicious wrote:I don't quite get the commercialism argument though. I don't see how TFN is any different than what you see on ESPN, NBC or Facebook. Maybe I'm missing something.

I have equal disdain for the crap that gets rammed down my throat via those conduits, too. We just weren't talking about them.

=R=

Aha! Now I know how you have time for all of your exploits

Ask my family how I act when we watch tv. I sit there and swear at the set constantly. I take it all so personally!

With the exception of an occasional sports event, I never watch live tv anymore. I always tape everything, so I can FF over the commercials and even that's not enough to overcome the onslaught.

=R=

I look forward to the LTHForum meetup when Guy Fieri opens a restaurant in River North

boudreaulicious wrote:I don't quite get the commercialism argument though. I don't see how TFN is any different than what you see on ESPN, NBC or Facebook. Maybe I'm missing something.

I don't think that the commercialism argument against GF is against TFN or his shows, it's about how he is putting his name on all sorts of products. He clearly has a team of people looking for anything even vaguely related to cooking that he can try to make a buck on. I've worked with a few of his branded products, and while they aren't horrible, they're certainly not great for the price. His restaurants are just another form of the same thing - maximizing profit with a disregard for quality. He's using his name to sell anything he can think of, and ultimately that does reflect upon him (not as a human being, but as a media persona and brand).

While I don't think that's there's anything wrong with cashing in when ever you can, there does seem to be an unspoken rule among some food personalities/brands that you just don't do that. There are loads of food media personalities who have no product lines who could make a killing if they did - Anthony Bourdain, Alton Brown, Tom Colicchio...hell, the estate of Julia Child. These people just do books, shows, and almost nothing else. At the extreme end of this you have Christopher Kimball and Cook's Illustrated who are following the Consumer Reports model.

I think that's where the real divide over commercialism lies. In general I'm sympathetic to the "no product line" crowd, but hell - I love Stephen Raichlen and he was probably a main pioneer of the product pushing.

David Hammond wrote:
Da Beef's boots-on-the-ground encounter with him at White Palace suggested GF was soliciting direction to cool local places and taking notes, which sounds like he took his job seriously. I'm pretty sure GF suggests content. Could be wrong, but makes sense as he's got a brand to protect.

It could also just be GF making conversation to be polite. I'm sure the majority of "fan" encounters with Guy include some kind of recommendation, either solicited or not. Knowing how this TV thing works, I feel comfortable saying that GF has no more input in the selection process than Katherine De Orio has on the selection of what restaurants appear on Check Please. It's not his job. He's the host; not the producer. At the most, if he has a recommendation, it would be vetted by the producers before being considered for inclusion in the show.

I don't think Guy is particularly indicative of the problems with Food Network -- although the clones of DDD are typically less interesting (Food Trucks, Street Food, Sweets...).

It's frustrating, because while they are piling on the competition, travel, and fix-my-restaurant shows, there's also new stand-and-stir shows, although none of the hosts so far have given me the least inclination to watch through a show.

A couple data points in the right direction:
Best Cook in America is a higher-energy version of The Taste. I've only caught a little of it, but it's got none of the plodding of The Taste and gives more info of the actual cooking.
The Kitchen is a clone of The Chew, with hosts of Jeffs Zacharian and Mauro, Sunny Anderson, Katie Lee, and Marcela Valladolid. They goof around more than The Chew does, and cook more too. I haven't been able to stomach Anderson's show, but she's informative and entertaining here.

I just saw this on facebook:

Janet Rausa Fuller
14 hrs · Twitter ·
Parents are in town and my dad watches Guy Fieri and heard about Big & Little's on Triple D and so here we are.

Janet was the editor of the Sun-Times food section until a few years ago.

When Bourdain did his Chicago segment, Louisa Chu pretty much directed his attention on to where to go. Since it highlighted many LTHforum favorites, it was a pretty well curated show.

That local experts may help DDD would be of no surprise. Plus why wouldn't they go to LTHforum, Chow, e-Gullet and Roadfood ... like a ton of other journalists and bloggers. We all influence each other, which is happens when you don't live in a vacuum.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:When Bourdain did his Chicago segment, Louisa Chu pretty much directed his attention on to where to go. Since it highlighted many LTHforum favorites, it was a pretty well curated show.

To reinforce the point I've been trying to make, if I recall correctly Louisa worked with the producers of the show to curate the places they visited, not Bourdain.

stevez wrote:

Cathy2 wrote:When Bourdain did his Chicago segment, Louisa Chu pretty much directed his attention on to where to go. Since it highlighted many LTHforum favorites, it was a pretty well curated show.

To reinforce the point I've been trying to make, if I recall correctly Louisa worked with the producers of the show to curate the places they visited, not Bourdain.

Why don't you ask her to clarify?

Ah, I believe we're seeing stirrings of a reconsideration of things Fieri in this Thrillist article entitled: "I read Guy Fieri’s new cookbook, and it’s disturbingly... great?"

http://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/camping-cookbook-by-food-network-star-guy-fieri-guy-on-fire

The author has never been to a Fieri restaurant, either.

David Hammond wrote:Ah, I believe we're seeing stirrings of a reconsideration of things Fieri in this Thrillist article entitled: "I read Guy Fieri’s new cookbook, and it’s disturbingly... great?"

http://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/camping-cookbook-by-food-network-star-guy-fieri-guy-on-fire

The author has never been to a Fieri restaurant, either.

Ha! I guess I'd have more faith in this guys review if he'd actually cooked something from the book. This pretty well sums up the review:

“I’m a mean apricot-mint chimichurri machine”, Guy tells me candidly on page 28. I find myself thinking that someday I too could become a chimichurri machine. This is patently insane, because I barely a) cook; and b) know what chimichurris are.

Sadly, I don't think he'd have a much better understanding of what chimichurris are after making an apricot-mint one.

Inspired by this thread I watched a couple DDDs last night, and the show was exactly what I remember it being, and I still like it. They visited a sandwich place that makes it's own bread, a place that makes garlic chicken wings, and The Depot here in Chicago. The craziest thing they showed was a place that makes a pork belly Reuben. I still have a hard time making a connection between a show that focuses on fairly traditional meals made with care (and maybe a little twist) and cookbooks that focus on things like apricot-mint chimichurri.

Even the Argentines don't have Lean Mean Green Chimichurri Machines?

"If you’re a foodie and a hater, Guy is the guy to hate...So I’m happy to report that the TV star’s new local joint is a lot better than you might expect."

The first review (apparently) of GF's Vegas spot: http://vegasseven.com/2014/05/06/guy-fieri-finds-flavortown/

Was interviewing Jeff Mauro, LTH contributor and Food Network's "Sandwich King," and on this topic he said:

"Guy Fieri has done more for the mom and pop shops than any other food television personality. Say what you want about his locked-in style, Camaros or exclamations, Guy has been a champion for normal-people food for quite some time. Whether you’re high-brow like Bourdain or mid-brow like myself, nobody on food TV is splitting the atom or curing polio, so we have to stop taking all this so seriously. We showcase food, the people that make it and where they make it. Whether it’s a totally radical sloppy joe or the most authentic Hainanese rice in Singapore, it’s fun to watch people eat and talk about food. This is why I have a job, Guy has a job and Bourdain has a job. I’m just happy to have a job. Can’t we all just get along and eat?"

I like that.

It's interesting, from everything I have seen, heard, read on this board and experienced in person, Jeff Mauro seems to be a genuinely nice person. Unfortunately this completely contradicts the feeling I get when seeing him on the Food Network shows he does. Whether it is his Sandwich King show (are they still producing new episodes?), "the Kitchen", or any of the other appearances, I find him completely unlikable.

In the same vein, Fieri may also be a regular guy off camera/in-person, but his on air persona just keeps getting worse (or everyone is just tired of the shtick).

At the end of the day, it is about the places and food. Somebody has to host and I wish it were me. I love the show and its format. The small joints get good exposure and usually thrive with that exposure. Much to the chagrin of the regulars in many cases. Understandable.

thetrob wrote:It's interesting, from everything I have seen, heard, read on this board and experienced in person, Jeff Mauro seems to be a genuinely nice person. Unfortunately this completely contradicts the feeling I get when seeing him on the Food Network shows he does. Whether it is his Sandwich King show (are they still producing new episodes?), "the Kitchen", or any of the other appearances, I find him completely unlikable.

In the same vein, Fieri may also be a regular guy off camera/in-person, but his on air persona just keeps getting worse (or everyone is just tired of the shtick).

I think it's a Food Network thing, they seem to turn normal people in to caricatures.

Coogles wrote:

thetrob wrote:It's interesting, from everything I have seen, heard, read on this board and experienced in person, Jeff Mauro seems to be a genuinely nice person. Unfortunately this completely contradicts the feeling I get when seeing him on the Food Network shows he does. Whether it is his Sandwich King show (are they still producing new episodes?), "the Kitchen", or any of the other appearances, I find him completely unlikable.

In the same vein, Fieri may also be a regular guy off camera/in-person, but his on air persona just keeps getting worse (or everyone is just tired of the shtick).

I think it's a Food Network thing, they seem to turn normal people in to caricatures.

It's a television thing.

unapologetically love Guy Fieti

In other news Viceland channel took over H2 a couple days ago, and that means F*CK That's Delicious is now on cable.

My wife and I have been to around 20 "Triple D" restaurants from Indianapolis to Yountville, California, incluidng almost all of the places in Chicagoland. We've been very happy with the great majority of them.

Nobody is going to confuse Guy Fieri with Jacques Pepin, but I enjoy his enthusiasm even if his staff chooses the featured restaurants. These places are modestly priced and have at least one or two standout items. In other words, there a cheap thrill.

Most recently, I enjoyed the "garbage plate" with corned beef and sausage at Franks Diner in Kenosha, and it typified what I love about the food served at "Triple D" joints: Excessive, one-dimentional, over-the-top and in-your-face favors, like an AC/DC or Ramones track. Even the toast was great. I would not have even ventured near this or other places had it not been for Fieri's show.

I actually saw Fieri at Vito & Nicks a few years ago. He wasn't filming there, he was just having some pizza with his crew.

Madon. I'm actually composing a reply in this thread from Beer Saurus in Ikebukuro, Tokyo, Japan.
I like both Guy Fieri and Anthony Bourdain. I think A. Bourdain now might make more dough on concert tours than he does from television shows.
When I was in San Francisco, CA. in January, I landed upon this older article wherein our scribe dumped on Jeff Mauro.
This is the internet and the World-Wide Web, people. I've now been out on it for twenty years. It is all about driving traffic to that W-WW site. {Hey, even I am guilty of that. More people should be clicking on my bookmark page link.}
I will admit to, on some nights when I am not going out to a pub, to setting the satellite channel to #110, Food Network, and let it run all night (while I'm on the internet in the foreground). "Diners, Drive-Ins, & Dives" is a solid show which finds good venues across the U.S.A. I have visited shows featured on it. I do not necessarily need to review them here on LTHF, but they were probably good.
But conversely, I must, must, must recommend A. Bourdain's CNN episode of "Parts Unknown" about Tokyo to everybody, everywhere, all the time. It nails it.

Glad to have stumbled across this thread. Because I, too, enjoy both Bourdain and Fieri -- but Guy has had a lot more impact on my dining, as jetting off to far-flung places on a weekly basis is just not in the budget.

And to be perfectly honest, I find his over-the-top enthusiasm kind of amusing. Couldn't do a DDD marathon without getting weary, but it's fun seeing someone get that excited about something -- especially when it so clearly pleases the owners of these small places. Watching people have fun is not a bad thing.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Tre Kroner, which is another LTH favorite that Guy has done -- and granted, I didn't first hear about it from Guy, but seeing him enthuse about a place I like is almost as much fun as learning about a place I've never heard of.

Kevin Pang, for the defense:

"If Fieri has a lasting effect on American gastronomy, it’s in providing a platform for family-owned restaurants in so-called flyover states—places that would otherwise not have the marketing or P.R. budget to garner buzz. In fact, the type of places Fieri showcases are the very restaurants glossy food magazine like to devote multi-page spreads to flash their indie cachet. These aren’t cookie cutter chains or effete tweezer-composed food (though I have no problem with either), but battered, slow roasted, doused with sauce, wrapped with bacon and deep fried-American road food."

http://www.avclub.com/what-did-guy-fier ... 1800012986

"If Fieri has a lasting effect on American gastronomy, it’s in providing a platform for family-owned restaurants in so-called flyover states—places that would otherwise not have the marketing or P.R. budget to garner buzz. In fact, the type of places Fieri showcases are the very restaurants glossy food magazine like to devote multi-page spreads to flash their indie cachet. These aren’t cookie cutter chains or effete tweezer-composed food (though I have no problem with either), but battered, slow roasted, doused with sauce, wrapped with bacon and deep fried-American road food."

Sure, and this argument seems to be gathering steam across the internet these days. However, it's not like he invented this concept. He took over the Food Network travelogue food show gig from the Neeleys, who took it over from the Deans, who took it over from Bobby Flay, who took it over from whoever the heck hosted "The Best Of..."

And I'm probably missing a few other people along the way who also did a variation of this same show on this same channel. Which itself is just a filmed version of what Jan and Michael Stern started doing in print in the 70s. You can still support the concept and disagree with the delivery system.